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Old 12-16-2007, 08:20 AM   #1
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Appy registry question. *might be a touchy subject*

On another horse board I frequent there has been an ongoing "debate" about Paints and the APHA registry regarding colored vs solid horses.

Some people are saying that the breeders and the APHA, treat solid Paints as throw aways. Others are saying this is not true.

Years ago when my dad bought me my first horse she was a Appy. Roaning chestnut, light snowflake pattern. Two other Apps in the barn were sisters and one was a very loud black w/ a blanket. Her sister(full) was a solid chestnut. Only had a star. Cute mares. Great conformation. Very smart.

I remember their owner telling me that he had registered the blanket App with no problem. But that the Appy registry wanted more proof that the sister, for which they had all the papers on both sire and dam was a Appy. He had decided not to bother. The chestnut was later bred to a Appy stud and produced a very loud blanket pattern filly.

My question is. Does the Appy registry think that the solid Apps are "worthless"? Do they have classes at the state and regional level for solids? Do they have a separate registry for solids? (I think I remember hearing something along those lines years ago)

Thanks everyone.

I would love to own another Appy in my life time. Idah was the best horse I have ever had the chance to work with and love. Yes, even more so than my current love Rhett. Just dont tell him that
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:28 AM   #2
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Its funny, I know what you mean;
I know a 3 year old Appy/QH cross.
Dam was a ch blanket App reg
Sire was a solid black Black QH reg
Baby was a ch Blanket Filly, she was registered

I also know a 100% Full App 4 year old
Dam was a bay blanket app
Sire was Bay lep App
Baby was a solid bay colt, Not reg?

I often wondered why? Owner preference, or Registry trouble?
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:37 AM   #3
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I find this a interesting post also, I know we bred a CPO registered appy mare to our AQHA stallion and the foal came out a chestnut with a nice blanket from his loins over his hinny very even, looked like someone painted it on.

Aphc would not paper him, as his mother was a CPO and his sire was a AQHA, even though this colt had verified parentage and was very well/obviously colored. This ticked me off needless to say. This is a nicely made colt and an asset to the "breed", they were going to geld him and use him for barrels anyway, but the point I am trying to express is I have seen some less than desirable individuals with no clue as to parentage registered and this colt who came out of registered stock with verified pedigrees they won't register.
Here is that colt when he is 4 hours old. Cute little bugger, I think



Anyway just had to vent a minute, I think any color registry of course puts more effort into the desired pattern/color than the ones who didn't some out with the correct pattern/color for thier registry. Although I must say APHA has been making an effort to provide more recognition to thier solid bred paints, FINALLY.
Hopefully some of the other registries will also.
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Last edited by Quarters N Paints; 12-16-2007 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintMeCrazy View Post
Its funny, I know what you mean;
I know a 3 year old Appy/QH cross.
Dam was a ch blanket App reg
Sire was a solid black Black QH reg
Baby was a ch Blanket Filly, she was registered

I also know a 100% Full App 4 year old
Dam was a bay blanket app
Sire was Bay lep App
Baby was a solid bay colt, Not reg?

I often wondered why? Owner preference, or Registry trouble?
Can't speak for this individual case. but I have known APHA breeders who give away either free or dirt cheap thier solid colts without papers, so it will not effect thier color percentage on their big name show stallions. May be the same case here. These folks served on the APHA board of directors also, so I personally felt they should have been more upright in thier business dealings with their paint horses. Just my opinion
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:17 AM   #5
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To be eligible for a "regular" registration, a foal must have color and/or characteristics and have at least one parent that has a "regular" ApHC registration designation. The other parent must be ApHC registered, or registered with an approved cross breed (TB, Arab, and QH only). If, under those circumstances, the foal has no color or characteristics, it is registered as "N", meaning non-characteristic. If either or both parents don't qualify as per above, the only way the foal can be registered is if it is neutered, in which case a "hardship" registration can be obtained.

Very often foals and young horses are solid and uncharacteristic and registered as "N", then later changed to regular registration when they color out and/or develop characteristics.

Breeding stock now have to have DNA on file, and of course stallions must be listed with ApHC, no matter what the breed, and stallion breeding reports must be filed.

They have also basically done away with the CPO program - check their website for registration specifics...
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Old 12-16-2007, 04:59 PM   #6
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The Ap mare that was CPO that had the coloured foal they would not allow to register should have applied for upgrading-because she is very obviously coloured now.
If the Ap does not have full papers then no, they will not allow the foals to be registered as they believe that it is promoting outcrossing for no colour.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:06 PM   #7
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Not up to date on this but one could breed a colored app mare to a qh stallion and register the foal as app, or appendix registered if solid. If a filly, she would attain full status if she threw a colored foal.
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:02 PM   #8
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Thank Faceman and Cowgirlspurs, I figured some appy people would know the reason behind them not wanting to paper the colt. I called the association and got all the paperwork listed my stallion ect..... brought all paperwork over to the mare owner, this colt is a 2 year old now, is it really hard and expensive to upgrade the mare now, and also register the colt??? It just seems ashamed to not have his papers as he is a nice looking well built colt, as well as nicely colored, and does have a nice pedigree also.
I don't do much with aphc but know some folks who have appy mares and they like our stallion, would be good to have the information for future breedings.

Thanks again
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Quarters N Paints View Post
Thank Faceman and Cowgirlspurs, I figured some appy people would know the reason behind them not wanting to paper the colt. I called the association and got all the paperwork listed my stallion ect..... brought all paperwork over to the mare owner, this colt is a 2 year old now, is it really hard and expensive to upgrade the mare now, and also register the colt??? It just seems ashamed to not have his papers as he is a nice looking well built colt, as well as nicely colored, and does have a nice pedigree also.
I don't do much with aphc but know some folks who have appy mares and they like our stallion, would be good to have the information for future breedings.

Thanks again
Upgrading registration to "regular" is very inexpensive - you can check their website, but it used to be $40 or $50 - haven't done it in a few years so it may have gone up. Non-member prices are higher, of course. Because of the low cost, "N" mares should ALWAYS be upgraded in case the current or future owners want to breed registered stock. The only exception would be if the owner was going to keep the mare "forever" and breed only to regular registered ApHC stallions, in which case it would not be necessary.
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:37 PM   #10
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Hmmm not being involved in the Ap world at all..... what does CPO mean?
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:43 PM   #11
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cpo....color production only

slim pickens....incorrect.
You can not register a QHxAppy cross (anykindofapp) as appendix
appendix is for qh x tb crosses
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceman View Post
Upgrading registration to "regular" is very inexpensive - you can check their website, but it used to be $40 or $50 - haven't done it in a few years so it may have gone up. Non-member prices are higher, of course. Because of the low cost, "N" mares should ALWAYS be upgraded in case the current or future owners want to breed registered stock. The only exception would be if the owner was going to keep the mare "forever" and breed only to regular registered ApHC stallions, in which case it would not be necessary.
Thanks for the information Faceman, I will check out the website and keep all important information for future reference as well as see if I can help with getting the existing colt registered.
Our stallion is listed already with ApHC.

Thanks again
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:10 PM   #13
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I thought CPO was certified petigree option
It was - they did away with it and do something else now. Having your horse CPO'd permitted it to participate in ApHC sanctioned events, but did not take the place of a regular registration, so the same breeding/registration rules applied as for "N" registrations - assuming I remember the rules correctly. I never had a horse CPO'd, and have an old brain...
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:35 PM   #14
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For those interested, here is the new procedure that replaces the CPO...

Quote:
Performance Permits for Non-Characteristic Appaloosas

The Appaloosa Horse Club (ApHC) is currently issuing Performance Permits to ApHC-registered, non-characteristic (N) Appaloosas. Permits allow all non-characteristic Appaloosas, regardless of parentage or age, to show in ApHC-approved and sponsored events as well as race with results counting toward ApHC race awards. Once a permit is issued, it remains in effect for the life of the horse, regardless of ownership changes.

Performance Permits eliminate the Certified Pedigree Option (CPO) program, as well as costly CPO fees and inspections. Appaloosas entered in the CPO program shall remain eligible to show in ApHC-approved or sponsored events as well as earn ApHC race awards for the life of that horse.

Prior to applying for Performance Permits, Appaloosas must be ApHC-registered. If you own unregistered, non-characteristic Appaloosas, check out the Aged Horse Special that will be offered through December 31, 2007 to receive reduced rates of registration for older Appaloosas.

Prior to permits being issued, Appaloosas must be parentage verified through DNA analysis by an ApHC-approved laboratory. The original certificate of registration, current photographs of the horse, and applicable fees (see fee schedule) must be submitted to the ApHC along with a permit application. Upon issuance of a permit, an updated certificate of registration will be returned to the horse owner. Permit application forms are available through the ApHC and on the official Website under downloadable forms.


Performance Permit Fees:

Foal date to 12 months
Member
Non-Member

Appaloosa x Appaloosa
$150
$215

Appaloosa x Approved Outcross
$250
$315


13 months and older



Appaloosa x Appaloosa
$300
$365

Appaloosa x Approved Outcross
$500
$565


For a one-year introductory period, January 1 through December 31, 2007, eligible Appaloosas may enroll at the applicable weanling fee, regardless of age. These introductory enrollment fees shall expire in 2007 and the applicable fees for yearlings and older horses will apply beginning January 1, 2008.
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:00 AM   #15
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I wonder-is there a standard fee if they are gelded? Or do the prices affect regardless.
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:24 AM   #16
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The ApHC is having an aged horse special until the end of the year. 2 yr old and up can be registered for $150.00. Short notice I know, but better late than never. Does the mare have DNA on file? Never mind, if she's CPO'd she should have. Good luck!
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:39 AM   #17
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ha....what the heck do I know about appys anyway?

that's what I had heard it called and ASSumed it was right.
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