Help for OTTB issues!!

DancinintheDark · 09-06-2008, 12:41 PM

Hello all! I am new to your community but have been reading your forums for a while and I am happy to tell you I believe you are a group of well-rounded-well informed people to ask for help from! Anyway, I purchased a beautiful black OTTB about 2 years ago. When I purchased him he was 14.3 at almost 3yrs old ( perfect for me since I am 4'10") and he is now a big -bodied 15.2-15.3. He didn't really have any starts at the track, so I don't have any real track-related issues but oh boy do we have others! I have trained hunter ponies for most of my youth so I fingured I was ready for such a project (hahaah). He rides like an absolute dream! Strangely enough, his ground work is the problem! He just will not tie at all. It really seems to be a fear issue. As soon as I tie him he begins blowing, shaking,etc. However he will stand until i go to walk away...then as soon as I do he explodes! I have tried most of the conventional ways to correct this. He has also become very girthy. So bad to the point he is basically dangerous. I have ruled out pinching, health issues, bad girths, etc. It really seems to be a pattern of a fear of anything restrictive. Anyone have this experience with one or know of anything I can do? Sorry so long!

purecountry1953 · 09-06-2008, 12:50 PM

Have you tried Clinton Anderson tie ring? Works wonders and doesn't make a horse feel like they can't flee if they decide they want to. When afraid they want to take flight,but with Clinton's ring, they can move if they want to. It's an amazing tool. Good Luck
You can go to his website and see the video.

rivervu2 · 09-06-2008, 01:18 PM

What does he do when you tighten the girth?

DancinintheDark · 09-06-2008, 01:25 PM

Well for instance the worst epsiode to date happened when I had him in the cross- ties. I VERY slowly tightened the girth and untied him and went to leave the barn. He started bouncing around a little so I fussed at him and he quieted back down. Then out of nowhere he reared straight up in the air and caught me in the shoulder, knocking me over. As I was trying to get up to get out of his way, he dropped down to begin bucking and kicked me squarely in the head ( no helmet on because we werent going to ride yet ) and put me in the hospital.....now you know what I mean by dangerous! And tightening the girth slow or changing girths or saddles or lounging him first do no good. On this particular day we had already lounged once!

purecountry1953 · 09-06-2008, 01:33 PM

Sounds to me if your going to keep this horse, you need to start all over again with his ground work. You are blessed you didn't get hurt any worse. My opinion, I would start him out from all the basics, as it sounds like he never learned to be tied, or if he did, he might have had some abuse/or issues concerning being tied. I have a rescue mare that the pwners bragged on how they would snub her up and beat her to try and break her..well guess what, it didn't work and to this day..she hates men. She is ok with me but she has a thing about men and cigarettes.
I would encourage you to try Clinton's tie ring and once you have mastered tying him, move onto the next step. Instead of using a regular girth, why not use a cotton rope all over his body and when you get to the girt area you can put pressure and release with the rope and not a saddle girth.You already know to always be on guard and if it was me, I would try to have someone outside with me..just in case.Good luck and keep us posted.

rivervu2 · 09-06-2008, 01:38 PM

TBs are wondrous creatures but they have their quirks!! If it were me I'd enlist the help of a strong person and put a chain on the horse over the bridle. As your helper is walking forward you tighten the girth as he's moving. I'd do this in increments until it was tight enough to ride him. He may blow but your handler will have his head and will need to correct him when it happens. Bucking, rearing and kicking you is absolutely unacceptable so give him a good snatch if you must. I'd then have him give me a leg up while still walking. I've worked on the track and have had to deal with this. These horses are claustrophobic and need to be kept moving. This should resolve itself with consistent handling.

NoniMe · 09-06-2008, 06:27 PM

Tango, my TB, is really weird about tying. We've worked on it and still have a ways to go. And Tango is cinchy, too...but he just makes faces (he used to get mean and swing around and try to bite. I'm happy with faces...).

I see these things, and maybe yours, too, as not 'quirks' but as works in progress. I treat them as such, as well...that they are behaviors which can over time be handled, but are really only 'symptoms' of something else...which is being dealt with accordingly. I treat the symptoms (i.e. I don't tie him, and we've dealt with the biting by having him meet Mr. Elbow), but the issue is still resolving.

For me and Tango, the issue was/is respect and trust. We have done a great deal of work on respecting me, my space, my requests...but we're not done. We do lots of ground work stuff, and even more leading/stopping/turning/backing. We do a lot of desensitizing to things, like ropes and cans and trees and toys and cats and dogs and people and everything under the sun. He's learning to trust me, and for him, that's the key to his disrespect...he was "saving" himself...he trusted his decisions more than he trusts me to keep him safe.

We've come a long way, me and Tango. We've had a recent occurance which was very telling - he did something which took all of his respect, trust and courage to do, at my request...and nothing bad happened. I was so proud of him, so amazed at his willingness to do as I ask, to trust me like that. But it's taken a while, and it came after hours and hours and hours of work in other areas. It showed me, however, that he's willing to trust my decisions over his...at least he's trying really hard to do that.

I'm saying all this because I want to illustrate why I am not so positive what you're dealing with is what the root problem might be. I think, perhaps, that you might be dealing with trust/respect stuff as well...and if so, you have to address that problem as well as the symptom of it, too. One is a 'faster' fix than the other, but the longer one is the issue which needs to be dealt with effectively before you will see permanent changes. And that takes a whole lotta time and patience to figure out what's going on, and to address it effectively.

I am not sure I've made much sense at all...sorry.

Best-
Noni

Sunlei · 09-06-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DancinintheDark

Hello all! I am new to your community but have been reading your forums for a while and I am happy to tell you I believe you are a group of well-rounded-well informed people to ask for help from! Anyway, I purchased a beautiful black OTTB about 2 years ago. When I purchased him he was 14.3 at almost 3yrs old ( perfect for me since I am 4'10") and he is now a big -bodied 15.2-15.3. He didn't really have any starts at the track, so I don't have any real track-related issues but oh boy do we have others! I have trained hunter ponies for most of my youth so I fingured I was ready for such a project (hahaah). He rides like an absolute dream! Strangely enough, his ground work is the problem! He just will not tie at all. It really seems to be a fear issue. As soon as I tie him he begins blowing, shaking,etc. However he will stand until i go to walk away...then as soon as I do he explodes! I have tried most of the conventional ways to correct this. He has also become very girthy. So bad to the point he is basically dangerous. I have ruled out pinching, health issues, bad girths, etc. It really seems to be a pattern of a fear of anything restrictive. Anyone have this experience with one or know of anything I can do? Sorry so long!

woah that sounds very dangerous, sorry about the hospital. Sounds to me like your horse has some fear issues aswell. The problems you describe, I do not have a clue on what to do or where to start. Though I do think it would be better to not hurt the horse to try to make it behave.

Can you try asking some people who have a lot of experience dealing with TB and off track horses what they think. Here's a link to Paul Williamson, it's in his vid here, his website and email. He's worked with thousands of TB both starting them and retraining the many that get very hard to handle. He's a very nice guy and if you contact him, email or call him..he may have some suggestions for you. Heres the last vid he did, he loved this colt,started him and off it went to the track to be another gone to the abyss. Good luck be safe and wear that helmet please

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQG-WTyZa6o

barnmom · 09-06-2008, 07:15 PM

Tbs are usually not used tobeing cross-tied, they are tacked up in the stall, the ones we re-trained were tied to one cross tie at a time, never left unsupervised, oce they realize, one cross tie wasn't so bad, move to 2. We groomed, fed and just did good things on the crossties for a while. Tacking up in the stall wasn't a big deal for us.

We had 1 that never really felt comfortable on the ties.

He definitely needs a firm, experienced hand. A chain is a must when leading him, intil he shows some manners while being led. I don't really feel it's the girth as you were already done a just leading him when he blew.

We had 1 that would rear when we pulled his head up from the grass he wanted to eat. So back to square one we went, we had a lead on both sides of the halter and would lead him like that and we could feel when he was going to go off and would correct it "before" it happened.

jjsimsez · 09-07-2008, 08:26 AM

id definatly look into clintons tie ring.im not a natural horse training kinda person but man that looks like a good device.i had a tb/quarter.she was the devil reincarnated.i saw this tie ring being used on rfd tv last week.worked on that horse.wish i had that when i had my tb.i couldnt walk her without a chain.over the nose.or shed rear up and be gone.i tied with a thick lead and bull snap.she would break anything less.if you cant afford trainer or want to do yourself lunge with that saddle.id put saddle on where you lunge to be safer.id wear gloves when you do this at first as he will probably explode.he'll learn.the tb is a great breed.for strong people.they have a mind of they're own.he will calm down.and like barnmom said if he came from track barn,they dont cross tie them.most wont agree but when mine reared id take that chain lead and throw her.(not with a saddle on)attitude adjustment.if they get away with something they are very smart and dont forget it.mine calmed with age.be careful you were very lucky not to be hurt worse.he will prob try this again when you saddle him.when that happened you went to see dr and he prob got put away.in his mind if he does this he wont have to work.

EquineAlberta · 09-07-2008, 06:43 PM

If he pulls back when tied, there is a very good chance he has nerve damage, and/or muscle damage from doing so. This may be affecting him in other ways. Damaged nerves can fire in spasms that can make some horses explode. We have an 8 year old lesson horse that we had an issue with exploding after the girth was done up (not even that tight!). We found out the issue was in his HIPS, no where near the saddle, but yet when we got accupuncture to deal with his hips, the freaking out stopped. Like your horse, the girth would be done up, he would start to get nervous/dancy, and then a few moments later explode (rear, plunge, and eventually fall down).

As for tieing. I would either use the tie ring, or not tie him. Instead loop the rope around the ring and hold it. Some TB's just don't seem to be able to handle the restriction. Over time he may relax about it, but the more he pulls back, the more he will be anxious about tieing and so it will become a habit. By not tieing, you won't be setting him up to pull back, and over time he will relax about the procedure.

Karen

csimmons · 09-07-2008, 08:05 PM

I have to disagree with most of you. I have trained race horses and now I retrain. You have two issues here. First the tying issue. Race horse have no concept of being on cross ties in an empty barn (or full barn) to be tacked up and groomed. Go back to what HE knows. Tie him on a single tie in the back of his stall. Walk away for just a moment, and before he get anxious, return and reward him. Increase your time away from him while he is tied and don't ever let his anxiety get at a high level. It may take weeks to get him to stand quietly, but it will happen. When he is comfortable tied in his stall, then and only then can you introduce cross ties. Use the same procedure as you did with him in his stall.
Your second issue is the girth. You may have seen horses on track being tacked up "on the fly". This means that the horse must be moving in a circle the entire time it is bing saddled. If held in one place, these horse will explode when saddled. This too can be overcome. First NEVER restrain these horses when applying the girth. NEVER, NEVER!!!! You can desensitize them in time. Place the saddle on the horse in the stall, and keep the girth very loose. Walk the horse out to your riding ring, and lunge him for a few minutes. Bring him in and tighten the girth one hole, and lunge him some for a few minutes more. You will have to completely undo the girth and readjust the saddle at times, because you have started with a very loose girth. Keep doing this and keep him moving. You had the right idea of tightening the girth slowly, but he needs to move in between each tightening. He will eventually loose his anxiety over the girth. I promise you that if you follow these steps, and don't rush him, he will stand on cross ties quietly to be saddled.

**gbarmranch** · 09-08-2008, 02:16 PM

I basically agree with csimmons.. no cross ties until you get him tying quitely with one.. and that can take a lot of time..

We like the CA tie rings with an extra long lead.. let him pull back until he decides to stop fighting it - when he is quiet, bring him forward again.. and let him pull back - you keep doing this until he decides to stand quietly for at least a few tyings without resitance.. The try it by stepping out of his line of sight - but being where you can see him.. You can't move on until he can quietly stand on his own for at least 5 - 10 minutes..

Then you start all over again, because this time you add spooky things.. like flapping saddle pads, people walking by moving their arms, etc.. anything you can think of that he might encounter on the cross ties.. let him pull back, until he stops, then reel him back in..

ONLY when nothing bothers him on a single tie, would I even consider the cross ties.. and then, I would leave the buckle of his halter unclipped. Better to have him step out of it, then break it and lose an eye..

Some TBs will never tie well.. or it may take months before he does.. Just keep in mind patience, patiencs, patience. They are bred to be high strung... so you have to work with them always keeping that in mind..

DancinintheDark · 09-08-2008, 02:57 PM

All, I really appreciate your comments! Keep them Coming!
Csimmons- When I cross- tie him he is actually much better than a single tie. If I single tie him he almost always blows immediately. At least cross-tieing him I have some hope! Is that unusual? I have actually saddled him in the stall untied and he still got a little silly, however I will try that again. Have you ever had any that that did not even work for? What did or would you do? Maybe just " on the fly" saddling?

NoniMe · 09-08-2008, 06:36 PM

Tango is not good with any tying. How I fool him is I put on his halter and lead rope, and let it dangle while I saddle him. He's not tied, but he thinks he is...and he just stands there for saddling. LOL.

What's funny is that if I actually tie him, he knows it and loses it...so we 'pretend'. Hey, it works for us. I just don't see him ever being really comfortable with tying...he has such issues with confinement and claustrophobia. We keep working on it, and it's getting better...but he'll never be the kind you can tie and just leave for hours.

Best-
Noni

csimmons · 09-09-2008, 01:56 AM

That is strange that he is better on cross-ties than in the stall. Are there other horses in the barn when you are working with him, or is he alone in there. Does he blow up if you are standing next to him , or when you walk away? You have to figure out what is causing this, is it isolation and fright , or is it insecurity over being restrained. Honestly, I almost never tie my horses. My horses tend to freak, because they are in the barn alone. They know full well how to tie, but I don't force it when they're new. I use a halter and a lead over their necks. I spend a lot of time grooming them, and if they're not being pushy, I give treats. I want them happy to be hanging out with me. Your guy will tie in time.
The girth thing is what I would be focusing on. You do not need to saddle him while he is walking. If you're afraid he will blow up in the barn, take him outside. Have someone hold him, but do not fight or overly restrain him. Put the saddle on with the girth a loose as possible so you get no reaction from him. Then go ahead and alternate lunging and thighten one hole at a time.
Let us know how he does.

Hudson · 09-09-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DancinintheDark

Hello all! I am new to your community but have been reading your forums for a while and I am happy to tell you I believe you are a group of well-rounded-well informed people to ask for help from! Anyway, I purchased a beautiful black OTTB about 2 years ago. When I purchased him he was 14.3 at almost 3yrs old ( perfect for me since I am 4'10") and he is now a big -bodied 15.2-15.3. He didn't really have any starts at the track, so I don't have any real track-related issues but oh boy do we have others! I have trained hunter ponies for most of my youth so I fingured I was ready for such a project (hahaah). He rides like an absolute dream! Strangely enough, his ground work is the problem! He just will not tie at all. It really seems to be a fear issue. As soon as I tie him he begins blowing, shaking,etc. However he will stand until i go to walk away...then as soon as I do he explodes! I have tried most of the conventional ways to correct this. He has also become very girthy. So bad to the point he is basically dangerous. I have ruled out pinching, health issues, bad girths, etc. It really seems to be a pattern of a fear of anything restrictive. Anyone have this experience with one or know of anything I can do? Sorry so long!

ummm... I thought you were talking about my TB for a few minutes!
She has NEVER raced thou. But she will not tie..and just like you said, it is as soon as I walk away that she blows.
And the girth thing! she has been doing exactly that! and I have never seen a horse do this before. She is fine and stands completely still for saddling, but when I go to lead her out of the barn, she will suddenly go backwards (right over backwards). seems to be something to do with the girth. But she has reacted so severly, she literally throws herself over backwards then thrashes around on her back because she can't get up (she doesn't do this everytime, but has done it about 4 times now) The last time she did it, we were walking out of the barn and she flew backwards into the tack room door, and it swung open as she went over, and she was cast in the doorway on her back! it was pretty scary.
I just find it odd because she seems so quiet natured most of the time, then she has these outbursts...

PaintsQH · 09-20-2008, 02:50 PM

Seem's I remember a thread like this before.. TB's ARE used to being cross tied and single tied. My mare is girthy, pins her ears, nips the air, but doesnt explode, buck,rear or have a tantrum while being handled or ridden. She WAS track trained, (so im told) but never raced, no tatoo, so I know for a fact she wasnt raced. She would rather beat up her stall then a person.

Thoroughbred Lady · 09-20-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaintsQH

Seem's I remember a thread like this before.. TB's ARE used to being cross tied and single tied. My mare is girthy, pins her ears, nips the air, but doesnt explode, buck,rear or have a tantrum while being handled or ridden. She WAS track trained, (so im told) but never raced, no tatoo, so I know for a fact she wasnt raced. She would rather beat up her stall then a person.

My OTTB was track trained but never raced. She does have the lip tattoo. I thought it was done automatically when they got to the track.

csimmons · 09-20-2008, 08:16 PM

FYI. There is no time table for tattooing a racehorse. Only, they cannot start until they are tattooed. The tattoo person comes to the track on a regular schedule. Some trainers tattoo there horses right away, and some wait until their horses are closer to starting their first race. Most of the time, it's not a priority until the horse is ready to run. Then it's OMG when is the tattoo man coming!!

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09-06-2008, 12:41 PM
DancinintheDark Newborn Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Elizabethton, TN Posts: 20	Help for OTTB issues!! Hello all! I am new to your community but have been reading your forums for a while and I am happy to tell you I believe you are a group of well-rounded-well informed people to ask for help from! Anyway, I purchased a beautiful black OTTB about 2 years ago. When I purchased him he was 14.3 at almost 3yrs old ( perfect for me since I am 4'10") and he is now a big -bodied 15.2-15.3. He didn't really have any starts at the track, so I don't have any real track-related issues but oh boy do we have others! I have trained hunter ponies for most of my youth so I fingured I was ready for such a project (hahaah). He rides like an absolute dream! Strangely enough, his ground work is the problem! He just will not tie at all. It really seems to be a fear issue. As soon as I tie him he begins blowing, shaking,etc. However he will stand until i go to walk away...then as soon as I do he explodes! I have tried most of the conventional ways to correct this. He has also become very girthy. So bad to the point he is basically dangerous. I have ruled out pinching, health issues, bad girths, etc. It really seems to be a pattern of a fear of anything restrictive. Anyone have this experience with one or know of anything I can do? Sorry so long!

09-06-2008, 12:50 PM
purecountry1953 Weanling Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texarkana Posts: 200	Have you tried Clinton Anderson tie ring? Works wonders and doesn't make a horse feel like they can't flee if they decide they want to. When afraid they want to take flight,but with Clinton's ring, they can move if they want to. It's an amazing tool. Good Luck You can go to his website and see the video. __________________ I am so busy, I don't know whether I've found my lead rope or I've lost my horse! "In God We Trust" Last edited by purecountry1953 : 09-06-2008 at 12:55 PM. Reason: website info

09-06-2008, 01:18 PM
rivervu2 Yearling Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 908	What does he do when you tighten the girth?

09-06-2008, 01:25 PM
DancinintheDark Newborn Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Elizabethton, TN Posts: 20	Well for instance the worst epsiode to date happened when I had him in the cross- ties. I VERY slowly tightened the girth and untied him and went to leave the barn. He started bouncing around a little so I fussed at him and he quieted back down. Then out of nowhere he reared straight up in the air and caught me in the shoulder, knocking me over. As I was trying to get up to get out of his way, he dropped down to begin bucking and kicked me squarely in the head ( no helmet on because we werent going to ride yet ) and put me in the hospital.....now you know what I mean by dangerous! And tightening the girth slow or changing girths or saddles or lounging him first do no good. On this particular day we had already lounged once!

09-06-2008, 01:33 PM
purecountry1953 Weanling Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texarkana Posts: 200	Sounds to me if your going to keep this horse, you need to start all over again with his ground work. You are blessed you didn't get hurt any worse. My opinion, I would start him out from all the basics, as it sounds like he never learned to be tied, or if he did, he might have had some abuse/or issues concerning being tied. I have a rescue mare that the pwners bragged on how they would snub her up and beat her to try and break her..well guess what, it didn't work and to this day..she hates men. She is ok with me but she has a thing about men and cigarettes. I would encourage you to try Clinton's tie ring and once you have mastered tying him, move onto the next step. Instead of using a regular girth, why not use a cotton rope all over his body and when you get to the girt area you can put pressure and release with the rope and not a saddle girth.You already know to always be on guard and if it was me, I would try to have someone outside with me..just in case.Good luck and keep us posted. __________________ I am so busy, I don't know whether I've found my lead rope or I've lost my horse! "In God We Trust" Last edited by purecountry1953 : 09-06-2008 at 01:33 PM. Reason: spelling

09-06-2008, 01:38 PM
rivervu2 Yearling Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 908	TBs are wondrous creatures but they have their quirks!! If it were me I'd enlist the help of a strong person and put a chain on the horse over the bridle. As your helper is walking forward you tighten the girth as he's moving. I'd do this in increments until it was tight enough to ride him. He may blow but your handler will have his head and will need to correct him when it happens. Bucking, rearing and kicking you is absolutely unacceptable so give him a good snatch if you must. I'd then have him give me a leg up while still walking. I've worked on the track and have had to deal with this. These horses are claustrophobic and need to be kept moving. This should resolve itself with consistent handling.

09-06-2008, 06:27 PM
NoniMe Greenbroke Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,049	Tango, my TB, is really weird about tying. We've worked on it and still have a ways to go. And Tango is cinchy, too...but he just makes faces (he used to get mean and swing around and try to bite. I'm happy with faces...). I see these things, and maybe yours, too, as not 'quirks' but as works in progress. I treat them as such, as well...that they are behaviors which can over time be handled, but are really only 'symptoms' of something else...which is being dealt with accordingly. I treat the symptoms (i.e. I don't tie him, and we've dealt with the biting by having him meet Mr. Elbow), but the issue is still resolving. For me and Tango, the issue was/is respect and trust. We have done a great deal of work on respecting me, my space, my requests...but we're not done. We do lots of ground work stuff, and even more leading/stopping/turning/backing. We do a lot of desensitizing to things, like ropes and cans and trees and toys and cats and dogs and people and everything under the sun. He's learning to trust me, and for him, that's the key to his disrespect...he was "saving" himself...he trusted his decisions more than he trusts me to keep him safe. We've come a long way, me and Tango. We've had a recent occurance which was very telling - he did something which took all of his respect, trust and courage to do, at my request...and nothing bad happened. I was so proud of him, so amazed at his willingness to do as I ask, to trust me like that. But it's taken a while, and it came after hours and hours and hours of work in other areas. It showed me, however, that he's willing to trust my decisions over his...at least he's trying really hard to do that. I'm saying all this because I want to illustrate why I am not so positive what you're dealing with is what the root problem might be. I think, perhaps, that you might be dealing with trust/respect stuff as well...and if so, you have to address that problem as well as the symptom of it, too. One is a 'faster' fix than the other, but the longer one is the issue which needs to be dealt with effectively before you will see permanent changes. And that takes a whole lotta time and patience to figure out what's going on, and to address it effectively. I am not sure I've made much sense at all...sorry. Best- Noni __________________ "His name is Tango," said I. The wee boy, in his childish lisp, replied "no, his name is Bongo Mountain."

09-06-2008, 07:15 PM
barnmom Coming two Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: northeast pennsylvania Posts: 1,808	Tbs are usually not used tobeing cross-tied, they are tacked up in the stall, the ones we re-trained were tied to one cross tie at a time, never left unsupervised, oce they realize, one cross tie wasn't so bad, move to 2. We groomed, fed and just did good things on the crossties for a while. Tacking up in the stall wasn't a big deal for us. We had 1 that never really felt comfortable on the ties. He definitely needs a firm, experienced hand. A chain is a must when leading him, intil he shows some manners while being led. I don't really feel it's the girth as you were already done a just leading him when he blew. We had 1 that would rear when we pulled his head up from the grass he wanted to eat. So back to square one we went, we had a lead on both sides of the halter and would lead him like that and we could feel when he was going to go off and would correct it "before" it happened. __________________ Remember to thank the horses for the happiness and joy we experience through them! It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice!

09-07-2008, 08:26 AM
jjsimsez Weanling Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: indiana Posts: 369	id definatly look into clintons tie ring.im not a natural horse training kinda person but man that looks like a good device.i had a tb/quarter.she was the devil reincarnated.i saw this tie ring being used on rfd tv last week.worked on that horse.wish i had that when i had my tb.i couldnt walk her without a chain.over the nose.or shed rear up and be gone.i tied with a thick lead and bull snap.she would break anything less.if you cant afford trainer or want to do yourself lunge with that saddle.id put saddle on where you lunge to be safer.id wear gloves when you do this at first as he will probably explode.he'll learn.the tb is a great breed.for strong people.they have a mind of they're own.he will calm down.and like barnmom said if he came from track barn,they dont cross tie them.most wont agree but when mine reared id take that chain lead and throw her.(not with a saddle on)attitude adjustment.if they get away with something they are very smart and dont forget it.mine calmed with age.be careful you were very lucky not to be hurt worse.he will prob try this again when you saddle him.when that happened you went to see dr and he prob got put away.in his mind if he does this he wont have to work.

09-07-2008, 06:43 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,424	If he pulls back when tied, there is a very good chance he has nerve damage, and/or muscle damage from doing so. This may be affecting him in other ways. Damaged nerves can fire in spasms that can make some horses explode. We have an 8 year old lesson horse that we had an issue with exploding after the girth was done up (not even that tight!). We found out the issue was in his HIPS, no where near the saddle, but yet when we got accupuncture to deal with his hips, the freaking out stopped. Like your horse, the girth would be done up, he would start to get nervous/dancy, and then a few moments later explode (rear, plunge, and eventually fall down). As for tieing. I would either use the tie ring, or not tie him. Instead loop the rope around the ring and hold it. Some TB's just don't seem to be able to handle the restriction. Over time he may relax about it, but the more he pulls back, the more he will be anxious about tieing and so it will become a habit. By not tieing, you won't be setting him up to pull back, and over time he will relax about the procedure. Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard?

09-07-2008, 08:05 PM
csimmons Weanling Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: delaware Posts: 259	I have to disagree with most of you. I have trained race horses and now I retrain. You have two issues here. First the tying issue. Race horse have no concept of being on cross ties in an empty barn (or full barn) to be tacked up and groomed. Go back to what HE knows. Tie him on a single tie in the back of his stall. Walk away for just a moment, and before he get anxious, return and reward him. Increase your time away from him while he is tied and don't ever let his anxiety get at a high level. It may take weeks to get him to stand quietly, but it will happen. When he is comfortable tied in his stall, then and only then can you introduce cross ties. Use the same procedure as you did with him in his stall. Your second issue is the girth. You may have seen horses on track being tacked up "on the fly". This means that the horse must be moving in a circle the entire time it is bing saddled. If held in one place, these horse will explode when saddled. This too can be overcome. First NEVER restrain these horses when applying the girth. NEVER, NEVER!!!! You can desensitize them in time. Place the saddle on the horse in the stall, and keep the girth very loose. Walk the horse out to your riding ring, and lunge him for a few minutes. Bring him in and tighten the girth one hole, and lunge him some for a few minutes more. You will have to completely undo the girth and readjust the saddle at times, because you have started with a very loose girth. Keep doing this and keep him moving. You had the right idea of tightening the girth slowly, but he needs to move in between each tightening. He will eventually loose his anxiety over the girth. I promise you that if you follow these steps, and don't rush him, he will stand on cross ties quietly to be saddled.

09-08-2008, 02:16 PM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,217	I basically agree with csimmons.. no cross ties until you get him tying quitely with one.. and that can take a lot of time.. We like the CA tie rings with an extra long lead.. let him pull back until he decides to stop fighting it - when he is quiet, bring him forward again.. and let him pull back - you keep doing this until he decides to stand quietly for at least a few tyings without resitance.. The try it by stepping out of his line of sight - but being where you can see him.. You can't move on until he can quietly stand on his own for at least 5 - 10 minutes.. Then you start all over again, because this time you add spooky things.. like flapping saddle pads, people walking by moving their arms, etc.. anything you can think of that he might encounter on the cross ties.. let him pull back, until he stops, then reel him back in.. ONLY when nothing bothers him on a single tie, would I even consider the cross ties.. and then, I would leave the buckle of his halter unclipped. Better to have him step out of it, then break it and lose an eye.. Some TBs will never tie well.. or it may take months before he does.. Just keep in mind patience, patiencs, patience. They are bred to be high strung... so you have to work with them always keeping that in mind.. __________________ Quality FoundationQuarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Minds are like parachutes – they only function when open – Thomas Dewar

09-08-2008, 02:57 PM
DancinintheDark Newborn Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Elizabethton, TN Posts: 20	All, I really appreciate your comments! Keep them Coming! Csimmons- When I cross- tie him he is actually much better than a single tie. If I single tie him he almost always blows immediately. At least cross-tieing him I have some hope! Is that unusual? I have actually saddled him in the stall untied and he still got a little silly, however I will try that again. Have you ever had any that that did not even work for? What did or would you do? Maybe just " on the fly" saddling?

09-08-2008, 06:36 PM
NoniMe Greenbroke Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,049	Tango is not good with any tying. How I fool him is I put on his halter and lead rope, and let it dangle while I saddle him. He's not tied, but he thinks he is...and he just stands there for saddling. LOL. What's funny is that if I actually tie him, he knows it and loses it...so we 'pretend'. Hey, it works for us. I just don't see him ever being really comfortable with tying...he has such issues with confinement and claustrophobia. We keep working on it, and it's getting better...but he'll never be the kind you can tie and just leave for hours. Best- Noni __________________ "His name is Tango," said I. The wee boy, in his childish lisp, replied "no, his name is Bongo Mountain."

09-09-2008, 01:56 AM
csimmons Weanling Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: delaware Posts: 259	That is strange that he is better on cross-ties than in the stall. Are there other horses in the barn when you are working with him, or is he alone in there. Does he blow up if you are standing next to him , or when you walk away? You have to figure out what is causing this, is it isolation and fright , or is it insecurity over being restrained. Honestly, I almost never tie my horses. My horses tend to freak, because they are in the barn alone. They know full well how to tie, but I don't force it when they're new. I use a halter and a lead over their necks. I spend a lot of time grooming them, and if they're not being pushy, I give treats. I want them happy to be hanging out with me. Your guy will tie in time. The girth thing is what I would be focusing on. You do not need to saddle him while he is walking. If you're afraid he will blow up in the barn, take him outside. Have someone hold him, but do not fight or overly restrain him. Put the saddle on with the girth a loose as possible so you get no reaction from him. Then go ahead and alternate lunging and thighten one hole at a time. Let us know how he does.

09-20-2008, 02:50 PM
PaintsQH Started Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: In a house Posts: 2,414	Seem's I remember a thread like this before.. TB's ARE used to being cross tied and single tied. My mare is girthy, pins her ears, nips the air, but doesnt explode, buck,rear or have a tantrum while being handled or ridden. She WAS track trained, (so im told) but never raced, no tatoo, so I know for a fact she wasnt raced. She would rather beat up her stall then a person.

09-20-2008, 08:16 PM
csimmons Weanling Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: delaware Posts: 259	FYI. There is no time table for tattooing a racehorse. Only, they cannot start until they are tattooed. The tattoo person comes to the track on a regular schedule. Some trainers tattoo there horses right away, and some wait until their horses are closer to starting their first race. Most of the time, it's not a priority until the horse is ready to run. Then it's OMG when is the tattoo man coming!!