Confidence for a jumper UPDATE ON Last post...

Morgan Horse · 09-02-2008, 03:06 PM

We have a horse that is great at home but falls apart at shows. He is 17.2 hands. So he is big and knows it. But he is a gentle giant. He is not normally mean. He is an exrace horse and from the track he went to some green riders. Then we bought him. He has had alot of training done but no confidence. We have always had troubles at the shows. But he did have major back issues, now those are fixed and he is sound. But he still has problems. Now my husbands "trainer" is very handy with a whip/crop.

We took him to his first show in two years this weekend and he did fine the first day, he did refuse but no violent acts like kicking out or major refusals to the point of throwing my hubby off. He even got fifth in one class. But the second day he was not good. He refused and ended up with hubby getting thrown onto a fence. Now he "trainer" sends him into the next round and tells him to go up to the fence that they had a issue with and hit him with the crop. TO me this makes no sense. Punish him for approaching a scary fence. Give him another bad experience with that fence instead of reassuring him.
Now here is my question. I have been charged with building the horses confidence back up. I have done some free jumping with him on a lunge line and praised him when he jumped it. Rode him in some scary places and praised him for going there. But what else can I do. I am thinking of sending him to a friend of mine that works for a feedlot. She is good with horses and has had many years of experience. She is not mean but does make the do as they are told. Any suggestions would be great. I think he needs to want to do it for his rider instead of being made to do it.
Thanks

**gbarmranch** · 09-02-2008, 03:12 PM

The fact that he does so well at home, where the rider is probably more relaxed, makes me think that your husband maybe hesitant, and the horse may be picking up on it.. He needs to be pushed forward, no crop, with your husband believing in his mind that they are going over that fence..

There are some that benefit from a crop tap - but it doesn't sound like the case here..

Morgan Horse · 09-02-2008, 03:25 PM

I am wondering that since there has been a history of stopping at fences. If my hubby is half expecting it so Finnigan gives it to him. But yesterday I rode him and I am western NO english. I put my english on him and jumped him and I was thinking I am coming off and I was on his shoulders, he was going to stop throwing me on his head. But he still jumped it. And gently to. But I have dealt with problem horses before just this is not my disipline.

**gbarmranch** · 09-02-2008, 03:26 PM

You had him going forward and may have been out of his mouth on the reins.. If he is pulling back, and taking his leg off him, the horse may feel that this means - don't go..

Morgan Horse · 09-02-2008, 03:34 PM

Now see his "trainer" tells him to be on his mouth all the time, and they always have thier leg on him. I was doing it all wrong and he did it for me. But I had spent over an hour gaining his trust and praising him for little things that I asked him to do. He is a good boy just not quite willing. I am trying to find ways to gain his confidence in what he is doing and Not worry about those mean jumps that eat him. The trainer though is one of these that make the horse do what you want not ask the horse to work with you. We had a go round this morning already about how to approach this problem her idea is to "whip him into shape" those are her words. But her method isn't working. Now it falls to me to do this.

**gbarmranch** · 09-02-2008, 03:37 PM

I used to jump my hunters in a loose rein.. matter of fact, I did lose one on a course once, and still finished well..

Think about how that horse stretches his head forward.. how would it feel to have someone asking you to do that while also pulling you back...

Just a thought to try.. it worked for you, so it might be the one thing holding him and the horse back..

Drafty · 09-02-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgan Horse

Now see his "trainer" tells him to be on his mouth all the time, and they always have thier leg on him. I was doing it all wrong and he did it for me. But I had spent over an hour gaining his trust and praising him for little things that I asked him to do. He is a good boy just not quite willing. I am trying to find ways to gain his confidence in what he is doing and Not worry about those mean jumps that eat him. The trainer though is one of these that make the horse do what you want not ask the horse to work with you. We had a go round this morning already about how to approach this problem her idea is to "whip him into shape" those are her words. But her method isn't working. Now it falls to me to do this.

While I cannot help with the jumping problem, I do think you may be misunderstanding the trainer.

In English you should always have contact with the reins. That is a LOT different than pulling back or cueing for a stop.

I dislike riding with a crop because it gets in the way. Sometimes I will carry one just to remind a lazy horse that today we have to work. If I do use one, however, I really USE it, because I don't like to use it. If that makes any sense?

If the horse in question were mine, I would bring in someone who is not already involved. An experienced rider that has worked with “trouble” horses and that I trust completely with my horse. Tell them that the horse is green, but not that it bulks. I bet you the horse is not afraid of the show atmosphere, I bet he is just working off of his handler or maybe he has your card, so this new rider won't have any trouble.

Good luck and keep safe.

Morgan Horse · 09-02-2008, 03:49 PM

Yeah we have done that and the guy ended up on the ground. And the "trainer" is meaning to use the crop lots and make it work. Not just a reminder.

EquineAlberta · 09-03-2008, 03:56 PM

Your horse might be sore. Many OTTB's have microfractures in their pelvis and spine, and this can cause pain when coiling to thrust over a jump. Sometimes the pain is intermittant, so the horse doesn't know when to expect it. Sometimes horses with this issue refuse to jump out of certain distances and/or associate the pain with certain types of jumps.

Usually diagnosis of this type of issue is post mortem, or requires an MRI...but a massage therapist, chiropactor, or good vet may be able to look for secondary pain (back pain) that indicates a deeper issue.

Whipping the horse in front of the jump is kind of like showing them that even though jumping MIGHT hurt, not jumping WILL hurt.

The horse might like your way of jumping better as you likely don't try to get to a particular distance, so he can protect himself.

DO you ever jump your horse two days in a row at home, or was the show the first time?

I would take the horse back to basics during the off season and bring him back slowly and see where the issues start.

Karen

Morgan Horse · 09-03-2008, 04:03 PM

Oh yeah we have done major back work on him so that is not an issue. I have a feeling that he was rushed to get undersaddle on the track and then went to green owners who didn't do to much with him then to us. Where he was in pain. Now that the pain is gone. He is still acting up. As for hitting him infront of the jump this was before the next round. After they had come out and went back in. Yeah he is going back to basics. He is missing the solid foundation that is needed for him to be a solid confident riding horse before he can show. The problem is only at the shows. He jumps 3 9 oxers at home. But at a show 0.9 m fence is to much.

EquineAlberta · 09-03-2008, 04:13 PM

"back work" won't really help with the types of issues I am referring to. Horses with these types of issues appear sound as the pain is intermitant, and only at times when the area is stressed. Kind of like how some issues only show up during a flexion test, but otherwise the horse seems fine.

Other ideas:
Is the footing the same at shows as it is at home? Does your husband get nervous?

What if you try to recreate a show scenario at home: warm up over single fences in a different area, then hang out a bit, then jump the course in your main ring, then hang out a bit, jump another course and repeat the next day (or however the shows you go to work). Most people have a different warmup routine at home, and the routine a show forces is completely new to them and can cause issues.

It could simply be the he needs more ring miles at shows. Maybe even in the x-rail division at first.

Karen

AlbertaGirl · 09-03-2008, 04:15 PM

My best suggestion? Send him to Karen for a while (EquineAlberta), she's only a few hours away (well, if or when she has room). I'm sure she'd be able to help

ETA:

I guess I should've added that I'm sure she'd be able to help... if you were possibly looking to send him to a trainer.

ruffian · 09-03-2008, 04:23 PM

I read a great article by Meridith Michaels Beabaum (sp??) she was talking about working with hot horses. Now your horse does not sound hot but many hot horses have huge confidence issues. Her strategy was to warm them up and work consistently over very easy, inviting fences, till they almost got bored and as she said, fell asleep over them. If you challenge them too soon with big fences and they have a rap or get a bad distance it just reinforces in their little horsey brains that they really couldn't do it after all.
I don't know your situation, but it sounds to me like this trainer is off target. Horses are like people, some respond well to discipline and pressure, some fall apart (no I don't frequently hit my kids with a crop, doesn't mean I'm not tempted some times)

I think the proof is , is he getting better? No it sounds like he's getting worse.
If you've ruled out all pain and soundess issues, including saddle fit, then back to the basics. I think you know this horse better than anyone and seem to have the key to working with him quietly. If you can find another trainer, who is a very quiet responsive rider and with experience in bringing young horses along, this may be the best bet to get him back on track. One thing I have learned, when a green horse is approaching a fence that has him worried or puzzled, you pretty much have to ignore everything that they do. If they are tossing their heads, going crooked, swapping leads, whatever don't get sucked into it. You can't fix this on the approach, just ride quietly forward as though there were no fence there at all. If they refuse, stop them, don't let them run out or back out. Depending on the horse one small slap with the crop may help. Then back them up (if the fence is less than
3 foot they can get over from a trot, sometimes even a walk and present them again. With a sensitve or unsure horse, your leg and hand contact must be consistent but gentle. No contact at all is frightening for them, they think you've abandoned them, but a lot of activity, kicking and flapping will only keep them further off balance.
If your boy is heavy on the forehand, as many TBs are, it will really unbalance him and upset him if you get too far forward. Concentrate on riding him up hill, with him in front of your leg. If you have difficulty with this, go back to flat work and trot poles until you can both stay in balance.
Good luck, he sounds lovely!

Morgan Horse · 09-03-2008, 04:41 PM

When I mean back work I mean We had an osteopath look at him numerous times. We are going to recreate the show situation. The train will throw things at him at home that don't scare him but she lets him warm up over the fence before she throws her coat or the scary thing over the fence. I like the Idea of not letting him run out. That is great. She is a great trainer for young horses even if she isn't the same as I would do it. But it works for her and she has success with it. But it is not working for our boy. The footing is different between home and show. Hopefully we can set some jumps up in a field next to us so that we can practice on grass. I think hubby is not nervous but is ready for refusals. I have preached to him not to expect it and ride for the moment. Keep the suggestions coming they are great.
Trudi

ruffian · 09-03-2008, 04:54 PM

One thing I forgot to add, I'd go to very low classes at shows for a while even the cross rails, so this doesn't become a repetitive situation that reinforces for him that shows are not fun. If you are going to jump or work at speed on grass, he should have corks and clips, you don't want him having a fall or slip and further scaring himself.
Is there a pattern to the type of fence (oxer, vertical, combination) that he refuses at? The most difficult fence for a green horse is usually the oxer with a long diagonal approach, they have way too much time to look at it and worry about it. If the rider tenses up the whole thing is compounded as he'll start looking for whatever is now worrying his rider.

Morgan Horse · 09-03-2008, 05:38 PM

There is no rhyme or reason to the refusals. I have the video and we have been watching it over and over. He came by the bad fence to get to another one and looked at it before take off for the fence they were jumping causing him to take a rail. Then he had to come around to that fence and refused it. It was just a plain white oxer. Nothing scary.

Morgan Horse · 09-03-2008, 05:41 PM

He was working on grass but trust me the stop that this boy did is one that no horse that is worried about footing would think about doing. He hadn't even slipped at all so he was not worried about footing. They way he stopped if he had slid at all he would have taken out the first jump of the oxer. He didn't even touch it.

EquineAlberta · 09-04-2008, 03:57 PM

Do you have clean white rails at home? White and yellow are scary to horses due to the way they perceive the brightness. the white against the grass may be more contrast then he is used to seeing.

Other though...did he stop because he had a rail at the jump before? Could be a really careful horse and having rails makes him worry about the next jump. Do you use closed front boots on him to jump?

Karen

Morgan Horse · 09-04-2008, 04:11 PM

I free jumped him over white rails today with a white board under it. He did look at it but he did jump it. No he hadn't had a rail down on that fence that day. The rail was the fence before it. We use closed front boots on him. But maybe bell boots would help that too. I am wondering if these refusals and bad behavior is his way of telling us that we can not make him do something. Seems like the more we fight with him his reaction gets worse. Once it dries up he and I are hitting the round pen. That we have to ask him. I have put around big silos today and banged on them. He was worried but didn't jump away. He was more looking for reassurance. I had him smell a tarp while I was flapping it. He was fine. I will look for a smaller tarp that I can really get him into.

EquineAlberta · 09-05-2008, 10:45 AM

What happens at the jump before can affect what happens at the next jump. So a rail or a caught mouth at jump 1, can make the horse less keen at jump 2. Not saying that is the pattern here, but it could be. Similarly a slight slip before jump 1 or in the corner approaching jump 2 might make the horse worry about the footing and less confident to jump the next fence.

Sometimes when at home people will circle and "regroup" a little more, whereas at a show they just keep going to the next jump regardless.

Somethings to consider.

I doubt that it is your horse trying to show you that you can't force him. If your horse thought that way then he likely wouldn't do anything for you, rather than be selective.

Of course, if you go to a show just to watch, you will see that many trainers use theory that you need to teach the horse that the repercussion for not jumping is much worse than anything that can happen if he jumps.

Karen

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09-02-2008, 03:06 PM
Morgan Horse Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 233	Confidence for a jumper UPDATE ON Last post... We have a horse that is great at home but falls apart at shows. He is 17.2 hands. So he is big and knows it. But he is a gentle giant. He is not normally mean. He is an exrace horse and from the track he went to some green riders. Then we bought him. He has had alot of training done but no confidence. We have always had troubles at the shows. But he did have major back issues, now those are fixed and he is sound. But he still has problems. Now my husbands "trainer" is very handy with a whip/crop. We took him to his first show in two years this weekend and he did fine the first day, he did refuse but no violent acts like kicking out or major refusals to the point of throwing my hubby off. He even got fifth in one class. But the second day he was not good. He refused and ended up with hubby getting thrown onto a fence. Now he "trainer" sends him into the next round and tells him to go up to the fence that they had a issue with and hit him with the crop. TO me this makes no sense. Punish him for approaching a scary fence. Give him another bad experience with that fence instead of reassuring him. Now here is my question. I have been charged with building the horses confidence back up. I have done some free jumping with him on a lunge line and praised him when he jumped it. Rode him in some scary places and praised him for going there. But what else can I do. I am thinking of sending him to a friend of mine that works for a feedlot. She is good with horses and has had many years of experience. She is not mean but does make the do as they are told. Any suggestions would be great. I think he needs to want to do it for his rider instead of being made to do it. Thanks Last edited by Morgan Horse : 10-26-2008 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Updating

09-02-2008, 03:12 PM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,233	The fact that he does so well at home, where the rider is probably more relaxed, makes me think that your husband maybe hesitant, and the horse may be picking up on it.. He needs to be pushed forward, no crop, with your husband believing in his mind that they are going over that fence.. There are some that benefit from a crop tap - but it doesn't sound like the case here.. __________________ Quality FoundationQuarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Minds are like parachutes – they only function when open – Thomas Dewar

09-02-2008, 03:25 PM
Morgan Horse Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 233	I am wondering that since there has been a history of stopping at fences. If my hubby is half expecting it so Finnigan gives it to him. But yesterday I rode him and I am western NO english. I put my english on him and jumped him and I was thinking I am coming off and I was on his shoulders, he was going to stop throwing me on his head. But he still jumped it. And gently to. But I have dealt with problem horses before just this is not my disipline.

09-02-2008, 03:26 PM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,233	You had him going forward and may have been out of his mouth on the reins.. If he is pulling back, and taking his leg off him, the horse may feel that this means - don't go.. __________________ Quality FoundationQuarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Minds are like parachutes – they only function when open – Thomas Dewar

09-02-2008, 03:34 PM
Morgan Horse Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 233	Now see his "trainer" tells him to be on his mouth all the time, and they always have thier leg on him. I was doing it all wrong and he did it for me. But I had spent over an hour gaining his trust and praising him for little things that I asked him to do. He is a good boy just not quite willing. I am trying to find ways to gain his confidence in what he is doing and Not worry about those mean jumps that eat him. The trainer though is one of these that make the horse do what you want not ask the horse to work with you. We had a go round this morning already about how to approach this problem her idea is to "whip him into shape" those are her words. But her method isn't working. Now it falls to me to do this.

09-02-2008, 03:37 PM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,233	I used to jump my hunters in a loose rein.. matter of fact, I did lose one on a course once, and still finished well.. Think about how that horse stretches his head forward.. how would it feel to have someone asking you to do that while also pulling you back... Just a thought to try.. it worked for you, so it might be the one thing holding him and the horse back.. __________________ Quality FoundationQuarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Minds are like parachutes – they only function when open – Thomas Dewar

09-02-2008, 03:49 PM
Morgan Horse Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 233	Yeah we have done that and the guy ended up on the ground. And the "trainer" is meaning to use the crop lots and make it work. Not just a reminder.

09-03-2008, 03:56 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,470	Your horse might be sore. Many OTTB's have microfractures in their pelvis and spine, and this can cause pain when coiling to thrust over a jump. Sometimes the pain is intermittant, so the horse doesn't know when to expect it. Sometimes horses with this issue refuse to jump out of certain distances and/or associate the pain with certain types of jumps. Usually diagnosis of this type of issue is post mortem, or requires an MRI...but a massage therapist, chiropactor, or good vet may be able to look for secondary pain (back pain) that indicates a deeper issue. Whipping the horse in front of the jump is kind of like showing them that even though jumping MIGHT hurt, not jumping WILL hurt. The horse might like your way of jumping better as you likely don't try to get to a particular distance, so he can protect himself. DO you ever jump your horse two days in a row at home, or was the show the first time? I would take the horse back to basics during the off season and bring him back slowly and see where the issues start. Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard?

09-03-2008, 04:03 PM
Morgan Horse Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 233	Oh yeah we have done major back work on him so that is not an issue. I have a feeling that he was rushed to get undersaddle on the track and then went to green owners who didn't do to much with him then to us. Where he was in pain. Now that the pain is gone. He is still acting up. As for hitting him infront of the jump this was before the next round. After they had come out and went back in. Yeah he is going back to basics. He is missing the solid foundation that is needed for him to be a solid confident riding horse before he can show. The problem is only at the shows. He jumps 3 9 oxers at home. But at a show 0.9 m fence is to much.

09-03-2008, 04:13 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,470	"back work" won't really help with the types of issues I am referring to. Horses with these types of issues appear sound as the pain is intermitant, and only at times when the area is stressed. Kind of like how some issues only show up during a flexion test, but otherwise the horse seems fine. Other ideas: Is the footing the same at shows as it is at home? Does your husband get nervous? What if you try to recreate a show scenario at home: warm up over single fences in a different area, then hang out a bit, then jump the course in your main ring, then hang out a bit, jump another course and repeat the next day (or however the shows you go to work). Most people have a different warmup routine at home, and the routine a show forces is completely new to them and can cause issues. It could simply be the he needs more ring miles at shows. Maybe even in the x-rail division at first. Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard?

09-03-2008, 04:15 PM
AlbertaGirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alberta Posts: 3,312	My best suggestion? Send him to Karen for a while (EquineAlberta), she's only a few hours away (well, if or when she has room). I'm sure she'd be able to help ETA: I guess I should've added that I'm sure she'd be able to help... if you were possibly looking to send him to a trainer. __________________ Some people say horses don't have a sense of humor... they obviously haven't met mine yet ;o) Last edited by AlbertaGirl : 09-03-2008 at 06:54 PM.

09-03-2008, 04:23 PM
ruffian Yearling Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 979	I read a great article by Meridith Michaels Beabaum (sp??) she was talking about working with hot horses. Now your horse does not sound hot but many hot horses have huge confidence issues. Her strategy was to warm them up and work consistently over very easy, inviting fences, till they almost got bored and as she said, fell asleep over them. If you challenge them too soon with big fences and they have a rap or get a bad distance it just reinforces in their little horsey brains that they really couldn't do it after all. I don't know your situation, but it sounds to me like this trainer is off target. Horses are like people, some respond well to discipline and pressure, some fall apart (no I don't frequently hit my kids with a crop, doesn't mean I'm not tempted some times) I think the proof is , is he getting better? No it sounds like he's getting worse. If you've ruled out all pain and soundess issues, including saddle fit, then back to the basics. I think you know this horse better than anyone and seem to have the key to working with him quietly. If you can find another trainer, who is a very quiet responsive rider and with experience in bringing young horses along, this may be the best bet to get him back on track. One thing I have learned, when a green horse is approaching a fence that has him worried or puzzled, you pretty much have to ignore everything that they do. If they are tossing their heads, going crooked, swapping leads, whatever don't get sucked into it. You can't fix this on the approach, just ride quietly forward as though there were no fence there at all. If they refuse, stop them, don't let them run out or back out. Depending on the horse one small slap with the crop may help. Then back them up (if the fence is less than 3 foot they can get over from a trot, sometimes even a walk and present them again. With a sensitve or unsure horse, your leg and hand contact must be consistent but gentle. No contact at all is frightening for them, they think you've abandoned them, but a lot of activity, kicking and flapping will only keep them further off balance. If your boy is heavy on the forehand, as many TBs are, it will really unbalance him and upset him if you get too far forward. Concentrate on riding him up hill, with him in front of your leg. If you have difficulty with this, go back to flat work and trot poles until you can both stay in balance. Good luck, he sounds lovely! __________________ There is something about the outside of a Horse that\'s good for the inside of a man (Will Rogers)

09-03-2008, 04:41 PM
Morgan Horse Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 233	When I mean back work I mean We had an osteopath look at him numerous times. We are going to recreate the show situation. The train will throw things at him at home that don't scare him but she lets him warm up over the fence before she throws her coat or the scary thing over the fence. I like the Idea of not letting him run out. That is great. She is a great trainer for young horses even if she isn't the same as I would do it. But it works for her and she has success with it. But it is not working for our boy. The footing is different between home and show. Hopefully we can set some jumps up in a field next to us so that we can practice on grass. I think hubby is not nervous but is ready for refusals. I have preached to him not to expect it and ride for the moment. Keep the suggestions coming they are great. Trudi

09-03-2008, 04:54 PM
ruffian Yearling Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 979	One thing I forgot to add, I'd go to very low classes at shows for a while even the cross rails, so this doesn't become a repetitive situation that reinforces for him that shows are not fun. If you are going to jump or work at speed on grass, he should have corks and clips, you don't want him having a fall or slip and further scaring himself. Is there a pattern to the type of fence (oxer, vertical, combination) that he refuses at? The most difficult fence for a green horse is usually the oxer with a long diagonal approach, they have way too much time to look at it and worry about it. If the rider tenses up the whole thing is compounded as he'll start looking for whatever is now worrying his rider. __________________ There is something about the outside of a Horse that\'s good for the inside of a man (Will Rogers)

09-03-2008, 05:38 PM
Morgan Horse Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 233	There is no rhyme or reason to the refusals. I have the video and we have been watching it over and over. He came by the bad fence to get to another one and looked at it before take off for the fence they were jumping causing him to take a rail. Then he had to come around to that fence and refused it. It was just a plain white oxer. Nothing scary.

09-03-2008, 05:41 PM
Morgan Horse Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 233	He was working on grass but trust me the stop that this boy did is one that no horse that is worried about footing would think about doing. He hadn't even slipped at all so he was not worried about footing. They way he stopped if he had slid at all he would have taken out the first jump of the oxer. He didn't even touch it.

09-04-2008, 03:57 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,470	Do you have clean white rails at home? White and yellow are scary to horses due to the way they perceive the brightness. the white against the grass may be more contrast then he is used to seeing. Other though...did he stop because he had a rail at the jump before? Could be a really careful horse and having rails makes him worry about the next jump. Do you use closed front boots on him to jump? Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard?

09-04-2008, 04:11 PM
Morgan Horse Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary Posts: 233	I free jumped him over white rails today with a white board under it. He did look at it but he did jump it. No he hadn't had a rail down on that fence that day. The rail was the fence before it. We use closed front boots on him. But maybe bell boots would help that too. I am wondering if these refusals and bad behavior is his way of telling us that we can not make him do something. Seems like the more we fight with him his reaction gets worse. Once it dries up he and I are hitting the round pen. That we have to ask him. I have put around big silos today and banged on them. He was worried but didn't jump away. He was more looking for reassurance. I had him smell a tarp while I was flapping it. He was fine. I will look for a smaller tarp that I can really get him into.

09-05-2008, 10:45 AM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,470	What happens at the jump before can affect what happens at the next jump. So a rail or a caught mouth at jump 1, can make the horse less keen at jump 2. Not saying that is the pattern here, but it could be. Similarly a slight slip before jump 1 or in the corner approaching jump 2 might make the horse worry about the footing and less confident to jump the next fence. Sometimes when at home people will circle and "regroup" a little more, whereas at a show they just keep going to the next jump regardless. Somethings to consider. I doubt that it is your horse trying to show you that you can't force him. If your horse thought that way then he likely wouldn't do anything for you, rather than be selective. Of course, if you go to a show just to watch, you will see that many trainers use theory that you need to teach the horse that the repercussion for not jumping is much worse than anything that can happen if he jumps. Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard?