***Advice Needed for Training (sorry so long)***

[HorseLvr76]

I purchased my "dream" horse about a month ago. He is a 16.2h, 3 yr old TB/Percheron cross, and I was told he was unbroke! Well, with working with him and assuming he was unbroke, I've found he knows just about everything I am doing! He has obviosly been trained-to what extent I'm not sure yet.

Here's the problem...while he obviously has been trained to some extent, it is also obvious that he has had something happen that has terrified him under saddle! I have done all the ground work, de-sensatizing, etc...and he is fine w/ all this on the ground. He also is 100% comfortable w/ line driving, and knows how to do this. I have laid across him, legs kicking, etc. on both sides-also fine w/ this. Wen I am up in the saddle (being led) and pickup my reins to turn him, he freaks out and scoots.

I am by no means new at training, and have ideas of what to try with him to get him to know that I am not going to hurt him; however, when I was younger, I would have stayed on and rode him through this...now I prefer to do all this on the ground-as I had a bad fall last year and am somewhat leary of not knowing what he is going to do.

Anyone have any advice they would like to pass along? Also, here is the big boy in question.

[rivervu2]

What a nice looking horse! Sorry to hear that you're having troubles. Why not just send him to a good trainer for 30 days to get him started? It's not worth getting hurt if you're not real confident about riding him through his issues. I used to ride anything that winnied but, after one too many close calls, I'm very careful about what I get on now. All part of the ageing process I guess!

[HorseLvr76]

I really dont trust any trainer to send him to...I guess I'm so set in my ways, and used to doing it myself... I have thought about asking on of my trainer's good teenage rider's to come over and be on him while I back her up on the ground! She is a good rider, and not afraid to stick.

It really stinks when you are so used to doing it...I'm the same as you rivervu2-I'm only 31, but it just took 1 really bad fall to ruin my confidence-even though I've been riding ever since, and jumping-the unknown of a greenie w/ issues is a little scary for me

[gbarmranch]

Have you had his teeth checked.. you said that when you pick up the reins he gets goofy - could it me a bit or mouth issue..

Just brainstorming here..

[ruffian]

I agree that a trainer or more confident rider may be the way to go. If you are anxious he will pick up on that. Your ground work sounds solid, keep at that to maintain your relationship.
I completely understand about not wanting to take such big risks anymore, as kids we never think about it but as adults with other people depending on us and bills to pay, it is different.
When I had issues with my big guy, I kept riding him on the flat, but had my instructor ride him a couple times a week to get him through some of the scary stuff. She was also more comfortable putting some pressure on him, so that when he reacted he realized that a) he wouldn't get hurt or frightened b) it didn't get him out of work and he had to keep at it.

[HorseLvr76]

Thanks gbar, but he is fine ground driving-so I do not think it is his teeth. It is very definately an issue of something that happened to him, and the other day he was fine w/ me walking him around (mostly). He only gave a little step her and there of a scoot, and I was even able to turn him both ways at a walk. Whatever happened has made him very scared of turning to the right under saddle (he's fine doing this on the ground). The bum part is that doing ground driving, etc...from the ground accomplishes nothing, since he knows how to do this, and is only frightened of it when I'm on him.

[gbarmranch]

Then I have to agree with the others.. I hate this getting old crap.. Like the rest, I used to ride anything.. but not anymore.. I can't afford to get splatted either..

You may just want to send him out to someone that will be able to work him through it.. I love that boy - he has a kind eye - so I don't think it would take long for a good trainer to get him over this hump...

[HorseLvr76]

Originally Posted by ruffian

I agree that a trainer or more confident rider may be the way to go. If you are anxious he will pick up on that. Your ground work sounds solid, keep at that to maintain your relationship.
I completely understand about not wanting to take such big risks anymore, as kids we never think about it but as adults with other people depending on us and bills to pay, it is different.
When I had issues with my big guy, I kept riding him on the flat, but had my instructor ride him a couple times a week to get him through some of the scary stuff. She was also more comfortable putting some pressure on him, so that when he reacted he realized that a) he wouldn't get hurt or frightened b) it didn't get him out of work and he had to keep at it.

Ruffian-good advice. I'm going to work him again tonight myself and see how it goes...after that I'm going to call my trainer for A's help (the trainers teenage rider). I dont mind anyone else on him-just dont want to take him and leave him somewhere else. A rode my Paint gelding I had when I was starting him over fences, and she did great w/ him.

[HorseLvr76]

Gbar-I really do love Rio, and was so confident that we would work through any issues-as I've had horses like him b/f. Last night just really worried me though, since he'd been working so well. I have NEVER had a horse to a trainer-I've always done it myself...I guess I feel a little at a loss!

Here is a pic. of me on him the other night by myself, turning, bending, etc... at a walk.

[Akita it Girl]

He is lovely, sorry, I have no good advice.

[Carri]

Have you thought about trying to ride him just in a halter and leadline (attached to both sides) at first? That way, if he is getting a signal from his mouth that is triggering the fear, you might be able to avoid that.

[HorseLvr76]

Carri-that is a great idea! Will try that tonight. My guess is that whatever happened to him involved the rein and bit getting pulled-drug on the right. I was not nervous on him until last night when he was REALLY scooting ever step! I guess I'm just going to have to suck it up, have my Dad leading and just sit on him for a while no matter what he does

[HorseLvr76]

You all may laugh at me but my other idea is to fashion a dummy out of burlap sacks w/ some grain to give weight for legs, and helium ballons for a torso (with a tshirt over them). I realize they would have to be 100% secure to the saddle w/ no shift to work, but lol, then he could do whatever on the lunge line w/ the dummy to no avail, w/out hurting anyone

[pippy]

When you say he 'scoots' what do you mean? I just wanted to be sure what I think scooting is, is what you think scooting is..

Edited to add: I am wondering if he is sore due to something out of place- so when you pick up the reins, he by now knows it will hurt so he acts up...since you state his teeth are fine, I personally would have a chiro look at him...I've seen horses acting up due to poll being out.

[sli92]

my first thought would be to maybe have your trainer, or as you said above, some of her best teenage riders come out for a bit... you stay where you feel comforatable, lunging him or ground driving... and then put one of them on, without reins(or maybe reins attached to halter), and then you just go about your daily work... with them just sitting there. He will become more confident because he can still see mom, it will reasure him.

as said above, I am also a huge fan of starting them just in halters. if they do do something not smart, you dont want their mouth accidentally getting reefed on(which may have happened the first time. maybe he just put his head down when the first person got on to get his balance, they got scared and pulled back. that would be pretty traumatic!).

By the way... he is absolutly gorgeous.

[HorseLvr76]

Thanks sli92! I have decided to let someone else "take the fall" Not really-hopefully not! I called my trainer and left her a message and have made some other enquiries. I want to have someone come out to me that is willing to help me work him through this. Someone who is an experienced rider, but is not afraid to stick with him when he starts doing something, and then i can stop him on the ground.

Pippy: When I say Rio scoots, he tucks butt, head up in the air and starts to take off. It is an obvious reaction out of being terrified by something in his past. I just need a rider who is not afraid to sit there and have me stop him on the ground when he does this.

[HorseLvr76]

Also, Pippy, I really do not think he is doing it out of soreness. I can lay across him at a walk, I can sit on him while my Dad leads me, etc...but it is something to consider...?

[sli92]

i do know horses that "scoot" when you sit back into them... something about them being tight in their back where the back of the saddle sits(needing chiro), or the saddle sitting right on an improper vertabre...
My guy, i have to sit straight up, but put the weight on the front of my calves because of the way his back is built. I only am able to sit deep when i REALLY need to get him over a fence.

A chiro is almost always worth it(horse or human )

[pippy]

Ok. Best of luck in figuring it out, I"m sure you will, it just takes time.. he is a very fine looking guy~!

[A J]

Does he do this even walking on a completely loose rein, or ONLY if you pick up the reins?

If he does it once moving with someone on him, I would dare to bet he's actually scared of the "monster" on his back, but due to a laid back personality, it is coming across as something else. I've seen horses who were GREAT with their groundwork, you could do anything, but someone on their back was scary - I get the very strong impression that's what's going on here. Even if you sit on him standing still, that's one thing, but when the "thing" on his back FOLLOWS him as he moves, then it gets scary. If I didn't miss something in your posts, I would dare to bet he is unbroke, and has not actually been ridden - maybe ground work, but not ridden.

One of the safest and best ways I know to get them through that is to have a confident person on them while you lead them. Once they are good with leading, then lunging, and then picking up the reins while riding.