Heavy Forehand

Logan-24- · 08-18-2008, 07:03 PM

Ok, I've got a 14.1hh Andalusian Cross mare. She's 14 years old and has a slight club + toe in on her front. She's been sound all her life (knock on wood) without a lameness vet bill to boot. I've owned her for about five years now and at the time of I first got her I cared less for how she carried herself or how she turned barrels and whatnots because she was my "Get on and do whatever, mare."

Now that Logan has showed his colors to liking English I've dropped doing games with him and started doing nothing but flat. I love gaming so I tried to pick it up with Cammy. Always, always, always, she has been heavy on the forehand and no amount of lifting the rein and barely crossing her neck has worked. It's a very frustrating process. I know it's ME who isn't giving her the right cues and at this point I just need an outsiders view.

I attached some pictures just so you can see her conformational defaults. She was a twin so she is somewhat out of proportion.

How do I fix her from dropping so heavy on her forehand?

This also seems to have an impact on running the barrels. Say I go onto the right barrel first, all is good. I get to the second she swaps leads at the last second (no biggie) and comes off the barrel on the wrong lead!! I reversed the order to outsmart her and failed miserably. She does it both ways. Whenever she gets to the 2nd and 3rd barrel she comes out on the wrong lead. Help anyone

?

At the canter.

You can tell in this one she's a bit heavy (don't mind the sour face, I was mad lol)

Those are the best pictures I have. So does anyone have a "Solution for Dummies" on this?

EquineAlberta · 08-19-2008, 11:56 PM

Stop trying to lift up her front, and instead try to get her under herself behind. She will actually need to drop her head to lift her back and step under more behind. Once she has the new muscles then her front end wil come up as her hind end drops and reaches under. Increase her abilty to carry weight with that hind end. This will also help with the canter issues.

Shoulder in and SHoulder fore are the best ways to increase the horse's hind end strength. Hill work is also great.

At age 14 it may take longer for her to develop new muscle memory though.

Karen

Logan-24- · 08-20-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EquineAlberta

Stop trying to lift up her front, and instead try to get her under herself behind. She will actually need to drop her head to lift her back and step under more behind. Once she has the new muscles then her front end wil come up as her hind end drops and reaches under. Increase her abilty to carry weight with that hind end. This will also help with the canter issues.

Shoulder in and SHoulder fore are the best ways to increase the horse's hind end strength. Hill work is also great.

At age 14 it may take longer for her to develop new muscle memory though.

Karen

I had an old instructor that I took lessons on her with that had me lift the inside rein and barely cross and while it didn't make sense, somewhat, I didn't question her at that age. But this has been awhile ago. She's extremely clumsy because of how heavy she is on the forehand.

Thanks for the advice, I'll give it a go.

A J · 08-20-2008, 04:43 PM

I agree with EA that it's not so much that you need to lift her front, but that her back end needs to get under her. She looks pretty strung out behind, and needs to start working through her back with her hind end underneath her more.

I have used lunging on a slight hill as a great way to accomplish a few things at once!

Logan-24- · 08-20-2008, 05:51 PM

Alright, I'll get to working on it

Oh and we've got plenty of hills, there's like no flat ground on this 9 acres

Thanks again you two.

rivervu2 · 08-22-2008, 05:11 PM

Yes, you really do need to get her to step under which will lighten the front end. I was taught to always start the horse "long & low", meaning work the horse for the first 10-15 minutes on a very loose rein at both the walk and trot. The horse should really be moving forward which will help stretch and relax the back muscles. Once the horse is good and warmed up then you can start more collected work, doing shoulder/haunches in, spirals in and out on a 20 meter circle and leg yields. Do a lot of transition work as well, keeping your leg on the horse to keep the hind end engaged and using your seat more for the transition and not letting her fall into the downward transition. Once you have the horse warmed up try to keep her in 'first position" (slightly bent to the inside) as much as you can which will keep the inside hind foot reaching under her more. Always end your session with more "long & low" to keep her back from stiffening up. If you do these exercises faithfully every day you are bound to notice a big difference in the way she moves. Good luck!

Slim Pikkens · 08-22-2008, 08:04 PM

Your saddle may, I'll repeat, may be part of the problem. If a saddle fits poorly and if you're inclined to put more weight on one stirrup this can affect the trapezius muscle which this can cause her to switch leads to get relief from the pain.

Horse_Orderly · 08-24-2008, 11:32 AM

My horse was the worst offender for being on the forehand. My instructor had me half-halt constantly and we did a lot of transitions from walk to trot and walk again to get him to come up underneath himself. We did a lot of sprialling down from a 20 meter circle to a 10 and then back out and once you hit the 20 meter mark, ask for the canter as they will be bent towards the inside from leg yielding out to the circle. It did work for Zak but it took time and it was always something I had to work on.

nrhareiner · 08-24-2008, 11:46 AM

Here is a good thing you can do from the ground. From what I can see from those pictures her rear feet/legs are spending more time behind then infront (Hip) Get 2 standing leg wraps. Tie a loop in one end to go around the horses neck. Then take the other end of that leg wrap and tie in the other leg wrap and run it behind the horses rear. Keep is a tad loose so it is not tight and tie the other end to the other side of the loop. Then lunge the horse at all 3 gates. It will teach the horse that their front and rear are connected and teach the horse to drive up inder themselves. This is not a quick fix but you will start to see it working even the first time you do it. Keep at is and you will see the horse not only learning to move front and rear togather but also build musle in the rear b/c they are using it properly.

Then when you start riding do a lot of backing. Once they start to learn how to use their rear in the lunging exersize they will start to us it backing and that will tach them to lift their shoulder. If they do not have the mucsle to do the work no amount of lifting will pick them up. You are not strong enough to lift them. They need to do it themselves.

Heidi

Logan-24- · 08-24-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pikkens

Your saddle may, I'll repeat, may be part of the problem. If a saddle fits poorly and if you're inclined to put more weight on one stirrup this can affect the trapezius muscle which this can cause her to switch leads to get relief from the pain.

She's ridden in a treeless so I'm quite confident that the saddle is not the issue at this point.

nrhareiner:

I will definitely try this... that method is very interesting and it only makes sense as to why it works. Thank you!

nrhareiner · 08-24-2008, 02:11 PM

Not a problem. My Chyro put me onto it. I have a mare who had a locked shoulder and b/c of it would not drive correctly from the rear. she is a great mover even with the shoulder problem but I needed to correct this problem so her shoulder would get better and stay better. I have been doing this exersize with her for about 3-4 weeks along with the Chyro/byoscan and you should see her now. Big differance in musle tone in rear and I could not believe she moves even better now.

Heidi

nrhareiner · 08-24-2008, 02:19 PM

Here is a picture of her undersaddle before the chyro/bioscan and the lunging exersize.

You can see how far back her legs are behind her and not driving under her self. Now granted these pictures are of her with only about 2-3 rides so that is part of it too. You can see she lacks musle tone and definision.

Here are a few pictures of her after the first chyro/Bioscan and about 3-4 days of work.

Again not the best to show the change as one is under saddle and the other is in hand but I am not going to start riding her again until Jacky comes back out and works on her again. She get bioscaned every day too with a spinal pad. That really helps.

Heidi

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08-18-2008, 07:03 PM
Logan-24- Weanling Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 470	Heavy Forehand Ok, I've got a 14.1hh Andalusian Cross mare. She's 14 years old and has a slight club + toe in on her front. She's been sound all her life (knock on wood) without a lameness vet bill to boot. I've owned her for about five years now and at the time of I first got her I cared less for how she carried herself or how she turned barrels and whatnots because she was my "Get on and do whatever, mare." Now that Logan has showed his colors to liking English I've dropped doing games with him and started doing nothing but flat. I love gaming so I tried to pick it up with Cammy. Always, always, always, she has been heavy on the forehand and no amount of lifting the rein and barely crossing her neck has worked. It's a very frustrating process. I know it's ME who isn't giving her the right cues and at this point I just need an outsiders view. I attached some pictures just so you can see her conformational defaults. She was a twin so she is somewhat out of proportion. How do I fix her from dropping so heavy on her forehand? This also seems to have an impact on running the barrels. Say I go onto the right barrel first, all is good. I get to the second she swaps leads at the last second (no biggie) and comes off the barrel on the wrong lead!! I reversed the order to outsmart her and failed miserably. She does it both ways. Whenever she gets to the 2nd and 3rd barrel she comes out on the wrong lead. Help anyone ? At the canter. You can tell in this one she's a bit heavy (don't mind the sour face, I was mad lol) Those are the best pictures I have. So does anyone have a "Solution for Dummies" on this? __________________

08-19-2008, 11:56 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,424	Stop trying to lift up her front, and instead try to get her under herself behind. She will actually need to drop her head to lift her back and step under more behind. Once she has the new muscles then her front end wil come up as her hind end drops and reaches under. Increase her abilty to carry weight with that hind end. This will also help with the canter issues. Shoulder in and SHoulder fore are the best ways to increase the horse's hind end strength. Hill work is also great. At age 14 it may take longer for her to develop new muscle memory though. Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard?

08-20-2008, 04:43 PM
A J Greenbroke Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 3,304	I agree with EA that it's not so much that you need to lift her front, but that her back end needs to get under her. She looks pretty strung out behind, and needs to start working through her back with her hind end underneath her more. I have used lunging on a slight hill as a great way to accomplish a few things at once! __________________ Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try.

08-20-2008, 05:51 PM
Logan-24- Weanling Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 470	Alright, I'll get to working on it Oh and we've got plenty of hills, there's like no flat ground on this 9 acres Thanks again you two. __________________

08-22-2008, 05:11 PM
rivervu2 Yearling Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 908	Yes, you really do need to get her to step under which will lighten the front end. I was taught to always start the horse "long & low", meaning work the horse for the first 10-15 minutes on a very loose rein at both the walk and trot. The horse should really be moving forward which will help stretch and relax the back muscles. Once the horse is good and warmed up then you can start more collected work, doing shoulder/haunches in, spirals in and out on a 20 meter circle and leg yields. Do a lot of transition work as well, keeping your leg on the horse to keep the hind end engaged and using your seat more for the transition and not letting her fall into the downward transition. Once you have the horse warmed up try to keep her in 'first position" (slightly bent to the inside) as much as you can which will keep the inside hind foot reaching under her more. Always end your session with more "long & low" to keep her back from stiffening up. If you do these exercises faithfully every day you are bound to notice a big difference in the way she moves. Good luck!

08-22-2008, 08:04 PM
Slim Pikkens Started Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,932	Your saddle may, I'll repeat, may be part of the problem. If a saddle fits poorly and if you're inclined to put more weight on one stirrup this can affect the trapezius muscle which this can cause her to switch leads to get relief from the pain.

08-24-2008, 11:32 AM
Horse_Orderly Started Join Date: May 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,039	My horse was the worst offender for being on the forehand. My instructor had me half-halt constantly and we did a lot of transitions from walk to trot and walk again to get him to come up underneath himself. We did a lot of sprialling down from a 20 meter circle to a 10 and then back out and once you hit the 20 meter mark, ask for the canter as they will be bent towards the inside from leg yielding out to the circle. It did work for Zak but it took time and it was always something I had to work on. __________________ State the obvious, I didn't get my perfect fantasy. I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me! Taylor Swift

08-24-2008, 11:46 AM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 724	Here is a good thing you can do from the ground. From what I can see from those pictures her rear feet/legs are spending more time behind then infront (Hip) Get 2 standing leg wraps. Tie a loop in one end to go around the horses neck. Then take the other end of that leg wrap and tie in the other leg wrap and run it behind the horses rear. Keep is a tad loose so it is not tight and tie the other end to the other side of the loop. Then lunge the horse at all 3 gates. It will teach the horse that their front and rear are connected and teach the horse to drive up inder themselves. This is not a quick fix but you will start to see it working even the first time you do it. Keep at is and you will see the horse not only learning to move front and rear togather but also build musle in the rear b/c they are using it properly. Then when you start riding do a lot of backing. Once they start to learn how to use their rear in the lunging exersize they will start to us it backing and that will tach them to lift their shoulder. If they do not have the mucsle to do the work no amount of lifting will pick them up. You are not strong enough to lift them. They need to do it themselves. Heidi __________________ Double Eagle Photography www.doubleeagleph.com Definision of Gun Control: Hiting what you aim at.

08-24-2008, 02:11 PM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 724	Not a problem. My Chyro put me onto it. I have a mare who had a locked shoulder and b/c of it would not drive correctly from the rear. she is a great mover even with the shoulder problem but I needed to correct this problem so her shoulder would get better and stay better. I have been doing this exersize with her for about 3-4 weeks along with the Chyro/byoscan and you should see her now. Big differance in musle tone in rear and I could not believe she moves even better now. Heidi __________________ Double Eagle Photography www.doubleeagleph.com Definision of Gun Control: Hiting what you aim at.

08-24-2008, 02:19 PM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 724	Here is a picture of her undersaddle before the chyro/bioscan and the lunging exersize. You can see how far back her legs are behind her and not driving under her self. Now granted these pictures are of her with only about 2-3 rides so that is part of it too. You can see she lacks musle tone and definision. Here are a few pictures of her after the first chyro/Bioscan and about 3-4 days of work. Again not the best to show the change as one is under saddle and the other is in hand but I am not going to start riding her again until Jacky comes back out and works on her again. She get bioscaned every day too with a spinal pad. That really helps. Heidi __________________ Double Eagle Photography www.doubleeagleph.com Definision of Gun Control: Hiting what you aim at.