Is This the Normal Way?

Freedomnchrist · 08-16-2008, 08:20 PM

O.k. So I know I do not know a whole lot about showing and training....

And I know there are different styles of training and such....

Let me tell you what happened...and you can tell me.

I went to a local horse show tonight. Nothing fancy....

Horses were warming up in the arena.....

I look over to the entrance to the arena...and see a BEAUTIFUL red mare.

Well...in she comes in just a halter....no tack and she is feeling her oats!

Not bad....but you could tell she was worked up for sure.

Had one of those....arabian prancing things going on.

I don't even know really how to describe what happened next other than....

Every time she would move the wrong way....*JERK*.

He had a stud chain wrapped around her nose and through her halter.

I mean to tell you...he never let up on her!

The whole time she was in there.....it was like.....a really bad chain reaction....

The more he jerked......the more she moved and got excited.

Oh yeah...did I mention that there was a stud in the ring warming up...and when she moved her butt towards me...I could see her *winking* a lot.

Someone outside the ring jokingly asked him if he could handle her....

He laughed and said "She always does this in this ring."

So here is my question.

I understand that you cannot let a horse run over you....

But what was the point in this "battle of control"?

Does it really help the horse...or does it hurt them even more.

It got to the point to where ...whenever he moved his hand...she would shy back...and then he would *jerk* because she moved.

No I have not been to many shows...but I just can't figure out this one.

Is this what I am suppose to do when Sugar acts up?

Is this common practice?

Have I missed something some where?

Is there not a way to control a scared/nervous/hyper horse with out yanking on them so much?

I mean...he went so far as to mover her backwards halfway across the arena by yanking on her.

I just think that if this is the way it is done...then I don't want to be a part of it.

**TDH** · 08-16-2008, 08:27 PM

Sounds like you went to an Arabian show - or at least, that it was an Arabian, and the handler was showing her at halter by doing the atrocious yank-em-shank-em "showing" that is so much the norm in those arenas.

Nope, I don't believe you're missing out.... and it's definitely not for me either.

And - it's not a battle of control... unless it's psychological control. It's "supposed" to make the horse appear more animated, and ends up with the horse with its nose in the air, dancing on its toes trying to escape the shank, so much so that anything resembling natural movement is completely lost.

I have no time for it - if that's what you were seeing.

TBxQH · 08-16-2008, 08:27 PM

Welcome to the show world

You're going to see LOTS of people who think they know exactly how to handle a horse that is spirited. I try my best to ignore and keep my mouth shut.

A lot of the times, a stud chain makes the horse MORE nervous and LESS responsive. I remember a few years ago, at an event, I saw this young girl walking a thoroughbred who was obviously spirited and checking everything out. Doing the normal, whinny-prance-snort-whinny. She got so fed up with the horse, she took the stud chain and moved it under the horses top lip, on the gum and just started to yank the living hell out of the horse.

I found, that all hot horses are more at ease to be led around with a plain, cotton lead or without the chain over their nose. They just need time to see everything and settle in their heads.

Freedomnchrist · 08-16-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDH

Sounds like you went to an Arabian show - or at least, that it was an Arabian, and the handler was showing her at halter by doing the atrocious yank-em-shank-em "showing" that is so much the norm in those arenas.

Nope, I don't believe you're missing out.... and it's definitely not for me either.

She was a QH though! She had the whole big big booty little feet thing going on. She did act like one though...but was built way differently than an arabian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBxQH

Welcome to the show world

You're going to see LOTS of people who think they know exactly how to handle a horse that is spirited. I try my best to ignore and keep my mouth shut.

That is what I needed to hear then...because I left scratching my head wondering if I even wanted to be a part of the whole thing.

**Range** · 08-16-2008, 08:31 PM

Yep, you want to see a lot of odd and not so nice things (and nice things, too), travel outside your home arena into the show arena, the rodeo ring, or the trails....

It can get pretty hairy out there!

Freedomnchrist · 08-16-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Range

Yep, you want to see a lot of odd and not so nice things (and nice things, too), travel outside your home arena into the show arena, the rodeo ring, or the trails....

It can get pretty hairy out there!

I felt so stupid! As soon as I saw him...I looked around to see if anybody else noticed. But no one did.

Oh well....I just wanted to make sure I did not miss the *jerk continously on the halter* thread.

wind lake · 08-16-2008, 08:43 PM

It does seem you went to a show where one of the "hot" breeds were being shown in halter. It just frys me everytime someone thinks they have to jerk the life out of their horse to get them to give that up headed look. When we showed our Arab stud we used the cellophane wrapper from his peanutbutter crackers to get him to set up and look excited. Our whip and chain were there because it was part of the discipline we were showing We did a lot of homework at home to get him to be "UP" and it never included the jerk and chain method. There are just those people who need the action to fulfill their fantasy of having a fancy excited horse at the end of their line. Our boys are gelded now and lead lives in local shows,trail rides and gymkhana. I guess the people burned me out. I still go to our regionals to watch and you can always tell the horses with real trainers and true handlers from the horses with the jerks at the end of their leads.

Freedomnchrist · 08-16-2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind lake

It does seem you went to a show where one of the "hot" breeds were being shown in halter. It just frys me everytime someone thinks they have to jerk the life out of their horse to get them to give that up headed look. When we showed our Arab stud we used the cellophane wrapper from his peanutbutter crackers to get him to set up and look excited. Our whip and chain were there because it was part of the discipline we were showing We did a lot of homework at home to get him to be "UP" and it never included the jerk and chain method. There are just those people who need the action to fulfill their fantasy of having a fancy excited horse at the end of their line. Our boys are gelded now and lead lives in local shows,trail rides and gymkhana. I guess the people burned me out. I still go to our regionals to watch and you can always tell the horses with real trainers and true handlers from the horses with the jerks at the end of their leads.

I enjoyed your post.

I would like to be clear though in the fact that this was a Quarter Horse....who was led into the ring before her halter class to get her "use" to the ring.

And I guess that was my point.

Their idea of getting her use to the ring...was to jerk her around.

wind lake · 08-16-2008, 09:03 PM

How Bizarre! The QH halter horses are always so quiet when we see them . These are the people who will nerve a tail so there is no movement and here they are getting the horse used to the ring by whooping it up. Go figure?

Sunlei · 08-16-2008, 10:15 PM

watch this arab show and the first horse run over the handler in the ring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwMr_UFQb28

Now here is a Bedouin expert trainer with arab horses showing how to train arab horses to behave. They also discuss americian horse that were dangerous and they retrained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7ShtgUXW1w

also worth it if you watch Volts other vids.. he is from a family that has raised arabs for 100s of years. Check out his mares and stallions.

eehh, lol sorry I see you said the horse was a QH not a arabian, oh well sorry. The princes horses even tho not QH are still worth taking a look to see how others handle horses outside of the usa anyway. It is quite different.

Freedomnchrist · 08-16-2008, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunlei

watch this arab show and the first horse run over the handler in the ring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwMr_UFQb28

Now here is a Bedouin expert trainer with arab horses showing how to train arab horses to behave. They also discuss americian horse that were dangerous and they retrained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7ShtgUXW1w

also worth it if you watch Volts other vids.. he is from a family that has raised arabs for 100s of years. Check out his mares and stallions.

eehh, lol sorry I see you said the horse was a QH not a arabian, oh well sorry. The princes horses even tho not QH are still worth taking a look to see how others handle horses outside of the usa anyway. It is quite different.

You tube is acting up right now...but I will def take a look at these later. I love Arabians as well. Just do not own one.

EquineAlberta · 08-16-2008, 11:09 PM

Freedom...you will see a lot of uglyness at horse shows, and each time I go to a show it makes me wonder if I ever want to go back too.

You don't have to be quiet about it though. If you see someone being rough with their horse you can say something to the show committee so they can consider kicking the horse out of the warm up and/or out of the show.

You can also say something not so subtly in a really loud voice to someone on the other side of the ring about the rough handling.

"Hey Suzy, do you think I should take Spot out of the ring while that out of control mare is in here? All the rough chain jerking is upsetting him."

Karen

Sunlei · 08-16-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedomnchrist

You tube is acting up right now...but I will def take a look at these later. I love Arabians as well. Just do not own one.

you tube is fine, this messageboard has click through and right click (disabled? not sure) so links don't work properly. Every link you have to manualy allow a link as a allowed pop up, if you use a pop-up blocker which most computers have.

Freedomnchrist · 08-17-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EquineAlberta

Freedom...you will see a lot of uglyness at horse shows, and each time I go to a show it makes me wonder if I ever want to go back too.

You don't have to be quiet about it though. If you see someone being rough with their horse you can say something to the show committee so they can consider kicking the horse out of the warm up and/or out of the show.

You can also say something not so subtly in a really loud voice to someone on the other side of the ring about the rough handling.

"Hey Suzy, do you think I should take Spot out of the ring while that out of control mare is in here? All the rough chain jerking is upsetting him."

Karen

Wow! Now you are def the kind of woman I want on my team!

I keep saying I am going to grow a backbone one day....but it hasn't showed up yet.

blueberry · 08-17-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunlei

watch this arab show and the first horse run over the handler in the ring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwMr_UFQb28

Now here is a Bedouin expert trainer with arab horses showing how to train arab horses to behave. They also discuss americian horse that were dangerous and they retrained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7ShtgUXW1w

also worth it if you watch Volts other vids.. he is from a family that has raised arabs for 100s of years. Check out his mares and stallions.

eehh, lol sorry I see you said the horse was a QH not a arabian, oh well sorry. The princes horses even tho not QH are still worth taking a look to see how others handle horses outside of the usa anyway. It is quite different.

From the keyboard of a 4-H mom------that arab show and it's handling of the horses is totally psychotic!!!! Why in the heck would people deliberately make a horse act out of control and dangerous??? Most normal people want a horse that behaves on the ground. Wow--that was a big eye opener to me and I would never want to go to an arab show. I have seen horses act up, get shanked and act up worse at paint shows, but it was individual horses and not the whole class on purpose. Those people are nuts to endanger themselves out in the ring, not to mention the damage the horses could incur themselves. I would not call that horsemanship, I would call it demented.

Freedomnchrist · 08-17-2008, 08:53 AM

I am glad to know though that not all Arabian horse horse are like this.

rivervu2 · 08-17-2008, 08:57 AM

I know this discussion is about a QH but I have to add my 2 cents regarding Arabs. The things that happen to Arab horses would curl your hair. I worked for years at high-end Arab breeding farms and witnessed all types of cruelty. The trainers start when the babies are weaned and it progresses from there. I heard a commotion coming from the breeding barn one evening and noticed the trainer's car there. He left shortly thereafter so I went to check on the horses. One of the weanling fillies was standing in her stall with her head hanging between her legs so I called the vet. The vet said that the baby probably flipped over and had a concussion! I couldn't stand those people anymore so I left soon thereafter. Arabs are the most wonderful horses to be around; they're smart, loyal and very loving. The bond you can have with an Arab is very deep and the thought of these wondrous creatures being abused just makes me sick. I have never really ridden Arabs because they're too small for me but I'd sure like to have one as a friend.

blueberry · 08-17-2008, 11:53 AM

When I clicked on the link to see how awful those folks were with the arabs, I also checked out this link of Patrick Swayze showing an arab. It is a much calmer way than the first video. I feel so sad for those beautiful horses and just want to kick the humans in the rear. I am sure that would be the response of most of the horse lovers on this board, and the reason Freedom posted her shock of how the horse she saw at the show was treated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3EAR...eature=related

Freedomnchrist · 08-17-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueberry

When I clicked on the link to see how awful those folks were with the arabs, I also checked out this link of Patrick Swayze showing an arab. It is a much calmer way than the first video. I feel so sad for those beautiful horses and just want to kick the humans in the rear. I am sure that would be the response of most of the horse lovers on this board, and the reason Freedom posted her shock of how the horse she saw at the show was treated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3EAR...eature=related

Wow! Watching Patrick was just awesome! Such a difference! It gave me goose bumps!

Equestria · 08-17-2008, 12:17 PM

He just didn't know how to handle her. If he had been yelling and screaming at the horse, I would have thought of animal abuse. But he might have been too big for his britches, trying to control a high-spirited/nervous horse by bossing her around. One time at a show there was a gorgeous Blanket appaloosa getting lunged in the ring and the handler didn't control him right so the appy pulled away and hightailed it around the ring.

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08-16-2008, 08:20 PM
Freedomnchrist Greenbroke Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,312	Is This the Normal Way? O.k. So I know I do not know a whole lot about showing and training.... And I know there are different styles of training and such.... Let me tell you what happened...and you can tell me. I went to a local horse show tonight. Nothing fancy.... Horses were warming up in the arena..... I look over to the entrance to the arena...and see a BEAUTIFUL red mare. Well...in she comes in just a halter....no tack and she is feeling her oats! Not bad....but you could tell she was worked up for sure. Had one of those....arabian prancing things going on. I don't even know really how to describe what happened next other than.... Every time she would move the wrong way....JERK. He had a stud chain wrapped around her nose and through her halter. I mean to tell you...he never let up on her! The whole time she was in there.....it was like.....a really bad chain reaction.... The more he jerked......the more she moved and got excited. Oh yeah...did I mention that there was a stud in the ring warming up...and when she moved her butt towards me...I could see her winking a lot. Someone outside the ring jokingly asked him if he could handle her.... He laughed and said "She always does this in this ring." So here is my question. I understand that you cannot let a horse run over you.... But what was the point in this "battle of control"? Does it really help the horse...or does it hurt them even more. It got to the point to where ...whenever he moved his hand...she would shy back...and then he would jerk because she moved. No I have not been to many shows...but I just can't figure out this one. Is this what I am suppose to do when Sugar acts up? Is this common practice? Have I missed something some where? Is there not a way to control a scared/nervous/hyper horse with out yanking on them so much? I mean...he went so far as to mover her backwards halfway across the arena by yanking on her. I just think that if this is the way it is done...then I don't want to be a part of it.

08-16-2008, 08:27 PM
TDH Welcome and Introductions Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 3,245	Sounds like you went to an Arabian show - or at least, that it was an Arabian, and the handler was showing her at halter by doing the atrocious yank-em-shank-em "showing" that is so much the norm in those arenas. Nope, I don't believe you're missing out.... and it's definitely not for me either. And - it's not a battle of control... unless it's psychological control. It's "supposed" to make the horse appear more animated, and ends up with the horse with its nose in the air, dancing on its toes trying to escape the shank, so much so that anything resembling natural movement is completely lost. I have no time for it - if that's what you were seeing. __________________ "Nature, when she made the Arab, made no mistake." -Homer Davenport- Last edited by TDH : 08-16-2008 at 08:30 PM.

08-16-2008, 08:27 PM
TBxQH Weanling Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 300	Welcome to the show world You're going to see LOTS of people who think they know exactly how to handle a horse that is spirited. I try my best to ignore and keep my mouth shut. A lot of the times, a stud chain makes the horse MORE nervous and LESS responsive. I remember a few years ago, at an event, I saw this young girl walking a thoroughbred who was obviously spirited and checking everything out. Doing the normal, whinny-prance-snort-whinny. She got so fed up with the horse, she took the stud chain and moved it under the horses top lip, on the gum and just started to yank the living hell out of the horse. I found, that all hot horses are more at ease to be led around with a plain, cotton lead or without the chain over their nose. They just need time to see everything and settle in their heads. __________________ One who believes that he has conquered the art of riding, has not yet begun to master the art of dressage. Dance above ground, never descending. Grace incarnate. Passion on hooves. www.iamtheoutdoors.com Last edited by TBxQH : 08-16-2008 at 08:33 PM.

08-16-2008, 08:31 PM
Range Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back of Beyond Posts: 5,728	Yep, you want to see a lot of odd and not so nice things (and nice things, too), travel outside your home arena into the show arena, the rodeo ring, or the trails.... It can get pretty hairy out there! __________________ If it harms none, do what you will.

08-16-2008, 08:43 PM
wind lake Newborn Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: new hampshire Posts: 34	It does seem you went to a show where one of the "hot" breeds were being shown in halter. It just frys me everytime someone thinks they have to jerk the life out of their horse to get them to give that up headed look. When we showed our Arab stud we used the cellophane wrapper from his peanutbutter crackers to get him to set up and look excited. Our whip and chain were there because it was part of the discipline we were showing We did a lot of homework at home to get him to be "UP" and it never included the jerk and chain method. There are just those people who need the action to fulfill their fantasy of having a fancy excited horse at the end of their line. Our boys are gelded now and lead lives in local shows,trail rides and gymkhana. I guess the people burned me out. I still go to our regionals to watch and you can always tell the horses with real trainers and true handlers from the horses with the jerks at the end of their leads.

08-16-2008, 09:03 PM
wind lake Newborn Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: new hampshire Posts: 34	How Bizarre! The QH halter horses are always so quiet when we see them . These are the people who will nerve a tail so there is no movement and here they are getting the horse used to the ring by whooping it up. Go figure?

08-16-2008, 10:15 PM
Sunlei Yearling Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 950	watch this arab show and the first horse run over the handler in the ring http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwMr_UFQb28 Now here is a Bedouin expert trainer with arab horses showing how to train arab horses to behave. They also discuss americian horse that were dangerous and they retrained. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7ShtgUXW1w also worth it if you watch Volts other vids.. he is from a family that has raised arabs for 100s of years. Check out his mares and stallions. eehh, lol sorry I see you said the horse was a QH not a arabian, oh well sorry. The princes horses even tho not QH are still worth taking a look to see how others handle horses outside of the usa anyway. It is quite different. Last edited by Sunlei : 08-16-2008 at 10:18 PM.

08-16-2008, 11:09 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,470	Freedom...you will see a lot of uglyness at horse shows, and each time I go to a show it makes me wonder if I ever want to go back too. You don't have to be quiet about it though. If you see someone being rough with their horse you can say something to the show committee so they can consider kicking the horse out of the warm up and/or out of the show. You can also say something not so subtly in a really loud voice to someone on the other side of the ring about the rough handling. "Hey Suzy, do you think I should take Spot out of the ring while that out of control mare is in here? All the rough chain jerking is upsetting him." Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard?

08-17-2008, 08:53 AM
Freedomnchrist Greenbroke Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,312	I am glad to know though that not all Arabian horse horse are like this.

08-17-2008, 08:57 AM
rivervu2 Yearling Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 990	I know this discussion is about a QH but I have to add my 2 cents regarding Arabs. The things that happen to Arab horses would curl your hair. I worked for years at high-end Arab breeding farms and witnessed all types of cruelty. The trainers start when the babies are weaned and it progresses from there. I heard a commotion coming from the breeding barn one evening and noticed the trainer's car there. He left shortly thereafter so I went to check on the horses. One of the weanling fillies was standing in her stall with her head hanging between her legs so I called the vet. The vet said that the baby probably flipped over and had a concussion! I couldn't stand those people anymore so I left soon thereafter. Arabs are the most wonderful horses to be around; they're smart, loyal and very loving. The bond you can have with an Arab is very deep and the thought of these wondrous creatures being abused just makes me sick. I have never really ridden Arabs because they're too small for me but I'd sure like to have one as a friend.

08-17-2008, 11:53 AM
blueberry Yearling Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: great lakes area Posts: 763	When I clicked on the link to see how awful those folks were with the arabs, I also checked out this link of Patrick Swayze showing an arab. It is a much calmer way than the first video. I feel so sad for those beautiful horses and just want to kick the humans in the rear. I am sure that would be the response of most of the horse lovers on this board, and the reason Freedom posted her shock of how the horse she saw at the show was treated. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3EAR...eature=related __________________ Proud horse mom to: Genie the beauty queenie (3yo QH) Tess the best (5yo QH) "To err is human, to forgive is equine"

08-17-2008, 12:17 PM
Equestria Halter broke Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 93	He just didn't know how to handle her. If he had been yelling and screaming at the horse, I would have thought of animal abuse. But he might have been too big for his britches, trying to control a high-spirited/nervous horse by bossing her around. One time at a show there was a gorgeous Blanket appaloosa getting lunged in the ring and the handler didn't control him right so the appy pulled away and hightailed it around the ring. __________________ Proud to be an American!