Trouble with cantering for more than a few strides - UPDATE!

Jules · 08-13-2008, 01:56 PM

Edited to add - I originally titled this "trouble with loping" and I mean to refer to loping as the three beat gait that comes between trot and gallop. I thought - and now I think incorrectly, based on some responses - that loping was the Western term for cantering. I don't want him to do a slow, collected Western Pleasure lope, I just want the three beat canter gait!

I have a 16hh paint gelding, 7y.o., who is very mellow and pretty lazy. I've had him just over a year and before that, he wasn't worked often (once a week) and not hard. I've been working on getting his energy levels up through feed and work (lots of trotting, hill work, etc) and he seems to be reasonably fit, though we won't be doing any endurance races any time soon...

My problem is getting him to lope for more than a few strides at a time. He lopes and gallops beautifully when he's turned out, lopes nicely in the large round pen, goes on both leads, and doesn't seem to have any physical issues. He'll pick up either lead though he prefers the left, which is fine - that's my stronger side too. Under saddle, however, he'll take a few strides and go back to trotting. He's better if we're heading towards the gate, aka: exit back to the barn and dinner, and he's better if we're loping with his barn buddy. I've had a couple of sessions with a trainer and when we tried to lope circles - big circles, to make it easier for him - he'll do a few strides and then stop dead. He has good brakes! When he did that, I would make him turn very tight circles, very quickly, and then ask for the lope right off that circle - that seemed to work somewhat, but it's exhausting for both of us.

I know that my seat could use some work - I'm reasonably well balanced and I don't bounce too badly, but I am sure that I'm not helping him by being a little less secure in the saddle than I should be. But I could really use some suggestions on how to get a more consistent lope out of him - and also any advice on improving my seat (I know time and riding will help!). I know that both of us getting fitter will help, as will both of us becoming more balanced. I don't want him to be faster, really, but I'd like to be able to lope one lap of the arena without trotting every half a dozen strides or so.

I ride 2-3 times a week, he gets out 5-6 times a week and we do arena work, trails, round pen, cow practice, and we just started play days. He'll go pretty well when we do play days - not fast but he'll lope a lot more strides. He did haul butt the last time I did barrels and went fast enough to shock me and I lost both stirrups and had to hang on!

Here's a couple of photos to give you an idea of him - they're not conformational shots, I know, but it's a start. These are a few months old, and I know I should get pix of him under saddle - will try to do that this weekend:

Him and his barn buddy (my mother's nippy fast little guy)

Enjoying turnout:

And this is the look I get when I ask for more than a walk:

BornToRide · 08-13-2008, 02:03 PM

Haha what a cutie

Hmmm...sounds like pure laziness to me!! I would work on really getting a feel for how he moves..try to feel every muscle, and really pay attention at a lope.

When you can feel him that well, you will be able to feel it before he ever actually stops...you can tell when he's thinking about it. And before he does, just keep him going

ruffian · 08-13-2008, 02:04 PM

Boy it looks hot there, I love Nevada and Arizona!
Anyway, if you've ruled out pain and saddle fit issues.
Try some ground work, where he has to maintain the lope while lunging. Learn how to safely use a lunge whip or in the round pen so that he works off voice command and knows that when you say "go", you mean it.
It might be a bit of a fitness issue, but he should be able to lope large circles (50 foot) with you on him fairly easily. Smaller circles require better balance and conditioning When he stops, I'd push him forward immediately, growl, kick, swat whatever it takes to make this unpleasant for him so that he knows it's not acceptable.
As for you, if you can work without stirrups at walk trot and lope (even better if you can borrow a well broke horse so you have less to worry about up there) or get someone to lunge while you work without stirrups and reins (lots of green riders balance off the reins and it can be a hard habit to break)
Safety first, do this in a round pen and/or on a trustworthy horse!

Bonanza · 08-13-2008, 02:15 PM

Well, his attitude is alot like Rosie's was last week. She was definately being "marish" and decided that she didn't want to move into a lope, stay in her gait or on the rail. It's amazing what her attitude change was when I picked up the crop someone left lying the arena. I didn't even have to use it. I just held it in one hand where she knew I had it...she immediately straightened up...

Rode yesterday and didn't bother to carry a crop and she did great...she just wanted to know if I really meant it or would I let her be in charge. She got her answer and is very relaxed and happy now...

Of course if you decide to do this, be careful. Rosie knew what a crop was and had obviously been trained but not abused with it. Some horses might freak out so you need to be careful until you know how he will react...

Jules · 08-13-2008, 02:29 PM

You guys are fast!

BornToRide - doesn't that look just make you want to let him do whatever he wants? Darn animal! I suspect laziness is the heart of the issue because when he wants to lope, he does. I can usually tell when he's ready to stop but even so, I'm too slow to get on him and keep him going. That's my issue, I know, to be more responsive... but I'll work on that.

Ruffian - those pix are from early May, when it was a gentle 79 degrees. Last night, at 8pm, it was 104. So we're used to the heat.

He's good under saddle at walk and trot and he lopes and gallops freely when I turn him out, so I don't think pain is an issue. He lopes without issue in the round pen or on the lunge line and will keep going much better than under saddle - he'll slow and I'll get on him with a whip crack and a "hup hup" and he'll pick the pace up again. I can usually get 3-4 circuits of the 70 foot pen before he drops to a trot and that's probably because it's just too hot right now to really go much more than that. I do walk work without stirrups but the trotting is really hard for me - he has a very bouncy stride, and that's not just my excuse! I've been told by several people who've ridden him and watched him - people far more experienced than me - that he's very bouncy in the trot. I can ride my mother's horse without stirrups at the trot very easily but not my guy! I definitely need to work on that more as I know that will give me a much better seat. It's just so hard (whine, whine...)!

Bonanza - he's been like this since I got him, around 15 months ago. His previous owner said he's just so mellow, it's hard to get a speedier gait from him, but I think he should be able to lope 100 yards without being a snot! I haven't used a crop on him - I do have one but he's always been easy to get going, it's the keeping going I have issues with! I may try carrying a crop next time and seeing if that will encourage him just that little bit more. He's pretty good with cues - he doesn't take a whole lot of leg to respond - but I know a crop might just help back me up and make him realize that yes, I did ask for a lope and no, you may not stop until I ask you to!

I've also just got an Aussie saddle which we're trying out for the first time this week (ridden in it twice so far - love it!) and I'm sure he's adjusting to the different feel of the saddle and my different riding position. However, in either of my Western saddles, we still have the loping challenges, so I don't think I'll let him use the new tack excuse that I'm sure he feels is a good reason to be so lazy!

version1955 · 08-13-2008, 02:38 PM

My Buster has similarities to your gentleman. When I ride Buster in the roundpen he's pretty mopey, can hardly get him to respond at all, but when I take him out in the pasture or on a trail, he perks right up. In fact his walk is even a little faster. I'm not saying he loves to run, because he doesn't. After all, we're not really going anywhere so what's the hurry

But I think that there are some horses that don't get motivated when they feel confined. Could be what's up with your horse

Jules · 08-13-2008, 05:39 PM

Version - he's much better on the trail or riding around our association than in an arena. He definitely associates the arena with hard, boring work, and I totally get that. He lopes well on the trails but it's super hard for him as it's ankle deep sand and with him being such a big guy, it really takes it out of him, plus almost all the good loping spots are uphill - even harder work. I know most of his issue is that he just doesn't want to do it but hopefully with more work and some tips from everyone here, I can at least get that one lap I want! I did buy him specifically because he's mellow and calm but I want just that little burst of energy sufficient to get his lazy butt around the ring once at a steady lope - maybe I'm asking the wrong horse!

version1955 · 08-14-2008, 07:48 AM

Jules, I don't know that you bought the wrong horse, but you are asking him to do something that is difficult for him to do. I'm guessing that as you develop your relationship with him and he becomes bonded to you in such a way that he wants to please you even to his detriment, you'll get your lope. But in my opinion it would be unfair to expect him to be happy about it or emphasize arena work. When I want to work Bussy, I do it in the pasture where I've mowed a circle for my "arena". Perhaps you could find a similar open space to do your 'arena' work.

Sirita_88 · 08-14-2008, 07:57 AM

I have a similar problem with my horse... He could canter all day long... but not lope. He used to only be able to hold a lope for a few strides and then he would break to a trot or speed up. I just really had to work on it, and after MONTHS of work he can finally stay in his lope for a longer period of time. My bet is that your horse will just take a lot of time.

Slim Pikkens · 08-14-2008, 08:03 AM

He does it because he can. Try carrying a riding crop or stout stick. That may be enough for him to realize you mean business.

Luvridn · 08-14-2008, 08:16 AM

A good friend of mine is training a gelding very similar to him. Very lazy, and for that he has been nagged with feet every time anyone rides him. So he has learned to ignore your leg and just shut down. In the end the rider gets the workout trying to keep him going.

She started him in the round pen on the ground using 2 clucks as a cue to trot and a kiss to lope. When she asks for either she expects it to be snappy, or he gets a touch on the rear. When he did that consistently, she put a rider (me) on him and she lunged him from the middle. She still had control over his gas and brakes. All I did was hold on. Then she had me be the gas while she stayed neutral in the middle. Then weaned herself out of the pen entirely. In a week he was trotting and loping off with a snappy departure. WITHOUT nagging him with my legs. You just have to be sure that when he departs you don't snatch his mouth until he figures things out. Then after that work on lengthening the amount of time he canters. Try more open places and straight lines. They say horses without a lot of go need to be going somewhere, and horses with too much go need circles.

As far as your seat, try sitting on your outside thumb. That will put you in the correct position, over his rear. With your inside hand try to move with his motion. Your body will follow. Then he will be more comfortable because you are moving with him instead of against him. Gradually you will work down to less movement in yourself, but exaggerate it at first. It sounds ridiculous but I have seen it work.

NoniMe · 08-14-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pikkens

He does it because he can. Try carrying a riding crop or stout stick. That may be enough for him to realize you mean business.

BINGO. At least, that's been my experience with Tango. He did it because he could; I let him get away with it.

So what we did to correct it was I had to get more 'insistent' in my riding; I carried a crop for a bit, but that didn't do much. What changed it was I started to know when he'd begin to think about changing gaits...and I'd give leg pressure. If he stopped, I'd become the 'crazy lady' on his back, and he would go right back to the canter...I'd growl, and push with my seat and just press my legs into his sides; he'd go, and everything would stop...I'd become quiet again. After a few weeks of this, I ended up simply uttering a short grrrr...and he'd stop thinking about changing gaits. Tango learned that Mom wouldn't get wonky if he just maintained the gait I asked for in the first place...so he does that mostly now. LOL, not always, but mostly.

Good luck!

Best-
Noni

thumpersgirl · 08-14-2008, 10:48 AM

I like the idea of you riding him with someone else in the pen to help you keep him going. You said yourself it's pretty hot there and that he hadn't been worked much before you got him. He's likely just not used to having to work like that. If you could have someone in the round pen with you, helping you to keep him going that may be a good option. I have a 6 year old right now that doesn't like to stay in the canter for very long. He's still building up the stamina and muscles to do such.

Jules · 08-14-2008, 11:52 AM

I just wrote a HUGE post replying to everyone and HT logged me out and ate it. I am SO bummed. Going to write it again, this time in Word...

lbequ4002 · 08-14-2008, 12:32 PM

To drastically improve your seat ride on the trails at a walk with no stirrups on a regular basis.

It sounds like laziness to me too especially if he's actually stopping sometimes. I have had several greenies like this and what I like to do is for the really lazy ones get a really and I mean really big stick, like a tree branch. Be careful getting on with it though. Then I go out into a very large arena or pasture and canter and canter and canter and if they stop without me asking or break the gait they canter some more. When I ask them to trot or stop and they comply we are done for the day. You have to be a little assertive and get your goal accomplished and be finished so the lazy ones figure out it's a whole lot more work to not canter/lope than to just do it. You can't do much if you can't go forward. With your improved seat you can drive him a little to help him get into the canter, by driving I mean site deep

Jules · 08-14-2008, 12:32 PM

OK, time out – reading the responses, I may have gotten my terms confused. I thought loping was what Western disciplines do and cantering was what English disciplines do. I have no Western training at all so I could be totally wrong and causing confusion. What I want – and I’ve clarified in my original post now – is the three beat gait that comes between trot and gallop. I would call that cantering if I were in England still… I’m not looking for him to do the slow, collected Western Pleasure class type gait – if that’s loping, then I’m asking the wrong question! I want a nice, steady, whatever speed he chooses canter that maintains the three beat gait for a circuit or two of the arena.

Back to our regularly scheduled responses…

Version – I think he should be able to canter in the arena, though I know he just doesn’t want to. He’s not a speed horse and I know that but I still think I should be able to get him to canter when I want him to. Of course, he doesn’t think that! And there’s the problem… Unfortunately here, we have sand arenas and sandy trails, but no pasture – the area around the trails is rocky sandy cacti-filled high desert terrain. What I wouldn’t give for a nice large grassy field, I tell you! But that’s why he needs to be OK working in the arenas – it’s all I’ve got.

Sirita – it was your response that made me question my terminology. I don’t want a slow, collected WP gait, just the three beat canter gait. I don’t think he’s fit enough to really collect himself, nor am I experienced enough to know how to get him to do that – he does canter fairly slowly but I think that’s because he’s lazy, not because he’s well-trained!

Slim – I’m going to try riding with a crop next time I work him in the arena. He’s very responsive to the crop, on the rare occasions I’ve used it with him, so it may well do the trick. I don’t know why I don’t think of using these training aids myself… it’s so obvious when others suggest it!

Luvridn – your suggestion is a very good one and I’ll see if someone at the barn can help me with that. My usual riding partner is my mother but she’s not a good enough rider to help with this, nor does she like riding my guy as he’s big and she’s tiny! He’s very good to go into the gait with a leg cue – I don’t need to ask and ask – but he doesn’t like to stay in it, even with more leg. That’s what I’m struggling with and I know some of it is definitely me, so both of us need work! I really like the idea of someone lunging him while I ride and as Ruffian suggested earlier, that would help me work without stirrups and reins which would help my seat (and completely exhaust me, but that’s another thread…).

Noni – I have let him get away with it, for sure. When I use my legs on him in the canter, when he goes to break gait, he stops dead. Someone said that he was spur-stop trained, whatever that is – I think he’s just protesting. And of course when he stops dead, I’m unseated somewhat and on his shoulder so then it’s a good thing he stopped… and so it goes. He’s really good in the round pen with voice commands – when he’s cantering and breaks to a trot, I just say “hup” (our version of the kiss) and he goes right back to canter, no whip needed. I should probably try that under saddle, huh? The things I never think of…

thumpersgirl – I think a lot of it is that he’s not fit enough to canter much, but seeing as he can run his butt off with his turnout buddies and will gallop round and round the large arena, I know he can do it if he really wants to! Trouble is, he doesn’t want to with me on him… and I agree, I think the round pen or lunging idea is a smart one, as it’ll give someone else the gas pedal and I can focus on feeling him and improving my seat. I’ll see if the instructor at the barn might be willing to do some lunge lessons with me.

Again, thanks to everyone for the responses. It really is a huge help to get suggestions and I’m going to try them all over the course of the next week or so, and I’ll come back with results and more questions, I’m sure. Maybe even some photos so you can really see where I’m messing up!

lbequ4002 · 08-14-2008, 12:34 PM

To drastically improve your seat ride on the trails at a walk with no stirrups on a regular basis.

It sounds like laziness to me too especially if he's actually stopping sometimes. I have had several greenies like this and what I like to do is for the really lazy ones get a really and I mean really big stick, like a tree branch. Be careful getting on with it though. Then I go out into a very large arena or pasture and canter and canter and canter and if they stop without me asking or break the gait they canter some more. When I ask them to trot or stop and they comply we are done for the day. You have to be a little assertive and get your goal accomplished and be finished so the lazy ones figure out it's a whole lot more work to not canter/lope than to just do it. You can't do much if you can't go forward. With your improved seat you can drive him a little to help him get into the canter, by driving I mean sit deep and help him find his rythmn

Jules · 08-14-2008, 12:37 PM

lbequ- ironically, I am very assertive with him in every other respect, but at the faster gaits - yeah, not so much. I think you're right in that I need to really get him to understand that it's not optional to canter - if I ask, I expect it until I ask for a different gait. In the round pen, he gets that - and he does it well. So that tells me it's me as well as him under saddle. I do a fair bit of walking without stirrups but not on the trails - so much out there that can catch you unawares, like jack rabbits, lizards, snakes, quail, etc etc. Having said that, if I can stick his small spooks without stirrups, that would work my seat, wouldn't it! Edited to add - getting a deep seat is a goal of mine and I realize now, 20 years on from when I rode every single day as a teen, how fabulous my seat used to be. And how age and lack of time and flexibility and all that adult stuff has impeded my riding progress!

version1955 · 08-14-2008, 12:56 PM

Jules, Thank you for your response. I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't or shouldn't lope him in the arena. My response was opening up the possibility that knowing WHY your horse won't lope/canter is the issue to helping him give you what you want.

That being said, horses generally give you what you want if they understand what you want. They understand what you want better if you are able to better understand their style.

Horses aren't as smart as you or I, that is why its up to us to make adjustments. From what you've said its not that he doesn't know what you want, it may even be that he has the physical conditioning to do what you want (not from him running riderless in the pasture but from your trail riding), but perhaps he doesn't understand that he must keep in the gait that you cue him until you tell him otherwise. That is a training issue and not a matter of him misbehaving.

Valerie62 · 08-14-2008, 01:06 PM

I have been following this thread with interest because I have the same problem with my mare that I purchased in early May. She really had no training that I could tell - I had a difficult time just getting her to go in a straight line at a walk.

Luckily I have a large indoor arena where I am boarding her but I am riding her home on Saturday where all I will have is a large open field to do flat work. It'll be interesting to see how that affects her movements/attitude. She'll be going from being stalled 20 hrs a day to 24/7 pasture. Oh boy....

She has come a long way in a few months though, but she does the same thing as yours when I ask for a canter (a few strides and goes back to a trot). My goal is like yours (canter the full circle of the arena). I'm slowly getting her to do it, using a crop and pushing pushing pushing with my legs and whole body) and if she stops before I ask for it - I make her pick up the canter again right away. I, too, believe it's just laziness - especially since my horse was rarely ridden before I bought her and probably never saw the inside of an arena.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Loping with the head down	jyates	Training	28	08-18-2008 10:18 PM
kids and loping!	jtfer1968	Horse Stories	31	03-26-2008 02:07 PM
Lengthening strides????	GodsGifts	Training	8	01-30-2008 05:14 AM
Loping!!	jtfer1968	Horse Stories	17	01-01-2008 08:18 PM

08-13-2008, 01:56 PM
Jules Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	Trouble with cantering for more than a few strides - UPDATE! Edited to add - I originally titled this "trouble with loping" and I mean to refer to loping as the three beat gait that comes between trot and gallop. I thought - and now I think incorrectly, based on some responses - that loping was the Western term for cantering. I don't want him to do a slow, collected Western Pleasure lope, I just want the three beat canter gait! I have a 16hh paint gelding, 7y.o., who is very mellow and pretty lazy. I've had him just over a year and before that, he wasn't worked often (once a week) and not hard. I've been working on getting his energy levels up through feed and work (lots of trotting, hill work, etc) and he seems to be reasonably fit, though we won't be doing any endurance races any time soon... My problem is getting him to lope for more than a few strides at a time. He lopes and gallops beautifully when he's turned out, lopes nicely in the large round pen, goes on both leads, and doesn't seem to have any physical issues. He'll pick up either lead though he prefers the left, which is fine - that's my stronger side too. Under saddle, however, he'll take a few strides and go back to trotting. He's better if we're heading towards the gate, aka: exit back to the barn and dinner, and he's better if we're loping with his barn buddy. I've had a couple of sessions with a trainer and when we tried to lope circles - big circles, to make it easier for him - he'll do a few strides and then stop dead. He has good brakes! When he did that, I would make him turn very tight circles, very quickly, and then ask for the lope right off that circle - that seemed to work somewhat, but it's exhausting for both of us. I know that my seat could use some work - I'm reasonably well balanced and I don't bounce too badly, but I am sure that I'm not helping him by being a little less secure in the saddle than I should be. But I could really use some suggestions on how to get a more consistent lope out of him - and also any advice on improving my seat (I know time and riding will help!). I know that both of us getting fitter will help, as will both of us becoming more balanced. I don't want him to be faster, really, but I'd like to be able to lope one lap of the arena without trotting every half a dozen strides or so. I ride 2-3 times a week, he gets out 5-6 times a week and we do arena work, trails, round pen, cow practice, and we just started play days. He'll go pretty well when we do play days - not fast but he'll lope a lot more strides. He did haul butt the last time I did barrels and went fast enough to shock me and I lost both stirrups and had to hang on! Here's a couple of photos to give you an idea of him - they're not conformational shots, I know, but it's a start. These are a few months old, and I know I should get pix of him under saddle - will try to do that this weekend: Him and his barn buddy (my mother's nippy fast little guy) Enjoying turnout: And this is the look I get when I ask for more than a walk: __________________ Jules Living in Las Vegas... loving my horse Last edited by Jules : 09-22-2008 at 03:39 PM. Reason: To clarify the issue...

08-13-2008, 02:03 PM
BornToRide Long Yearling Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,459	Haha what a cutie Hmmm...sounds like pure laziness to me!! I would work on really getting a feel for how he moves..try to feel every muscle, and really pay attention at a lope. When you can feel him that well, you will be able to feel it before he ever actually stops...you can tell when he's thinking about it. And before he does, just keep him going __________________ There's something about the outside of a horse that's good for the inside of a man.-Winston Churchill

08-13-2008, 02:04 PM
ruffian Yearling Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 979	Boy it looks hot there, I love Nevada and Arizona! Anyway, if you've ruled out pain and saddle fit issues. Try some ground work, where he has to maintain the lope while lunging. Learn how to safely use a lunge whip or in the round pen so that he works off voice command and knows that when you say "go", you mean it. It might be a bit of a fitness issue, but he should be able to lope large circles (50 foot) with you on him fairly easily. Smaller circles require better balance and conditioning When he stops, I'd push him forward immediately, growl, kick, swat whatever it takes to make this unpleasant for him so that he knows it's not acceptable. As for you, if you can work without stirrups at walk trot and lope (even better if you can borrow a well broke horse so you have less to worry about up there) or get someone to lunge while you work without stirrups and reins (lots of green riders balance off the reins and it can be a hard habit to break) Safety first, do this in a round pen and/or on a trustworthy horse! __________________ There is something about the outside of a Horse that\'s good for the inside of a man (Will Rogers)

08-13-2008, 02:15 PM
Bonanza Long Yearling Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,029	Well, his attitude is alot like Rosie's was last week. She was definately being "marish" and decided that she didn't want to move into a lope, stay in her gait or on the rail. It's amazing what her attitude change was when I picked up the crop someone left lying the arena. I didn't even have to use it. I just held it in one hand where she knew I had it...she immediately straightened up... Rode yesterday and didn't bother to carry a crop and she did great...she just wanted to know if I really meant it or would I let her be in charge. She got her answer and is very relaxed and happy now... Of course if you decide to do this, be careful. Rosie knew what a crop was and had obviously been trained but not abused with it. Some horses might freak out so you need to be careful until you know how he will react... __________________ It's hard to stumble when you're on your knees. Last edited by Bonanza : 08-13-2008 at 02:17 PM.

08-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Jules Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	You guys are fast! BornToRide - doesn't that look just make you want to let him do whatever he wants? Darn animal! I suspect laziness is the heart of the issue because when he wants to lope, he does. I can usually tell when he's ready to stop but even so, I'm too slow to get on him and keep him going. That's my issue, I know, to be more responsive... but I'll work on that. Ruffian - those pix are from early May, when it was a gentle 79 degrees. Last night, at 8pm, it was 104. So we're used to the heat. He's good under saddle at walk and trot and he lopes and gallops freely when I turn him out, so I don't think pain is an issue. He lopes without issue in the round pen or on the lunge line and will keep going much better than under saddle - he'll slow and I'll get on him with a whip crack and a "hup hup" and he'll pick the pace up again. I can usually get 3-4 circuits of the 70 foot pen before he drops to a trot and that's probably because it's just too hot right now to really go much more than that. I do walk work without stirrups but the trotting is really hard for me - he has a very bouncy stride, and that's not just my excuse! I've been told by several people who've ridden him and watched him - people far more experienced than me - that he's very bouncy in the trot. I can ride my mother's horse without stirrups at the trot very easily but not my guy! I definitely need to work on that more as I know that will give me a much better seat. It's just so hard (whine, whine...)! Bonanza - he's been like this since I got him, around 15 months ago. His previous owner said he's just so mellow, it's hard to get a speedier gait from him, but I think he should be able to lope 100 yards without being a snot! I haven't used a crop on him - I do have one but he's always been easy to get going, it's the keeping going I have issues with! I may try carrying a crop next time and seeing if that will encourage him just that little bit more. He's pretty good with cues - he doesn't take a whole lot of leg to respond - but I know a crop might just help back me up and make him realize that yes, I did ask for a lope and no, you may not stop until I ask you to! I've also just got an Aussie saddle which we're trying out for the first time this week (ridden in it twice so far - love it!) and I'm sure he's adjusting to the different feel of the saddle and my different riding position. However, in either of my Western saddles, we still have the loping challenges, so I don't think I'll let him use the new tack excuse that I'm sure he feels is a good reason to be so lazy! __________________ Jules Living in Las Vegas... loving my horse

08-13-2008, 02:38 PM
version1955 Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesnowdah Posts: 6,630	My Buster has similarities to your gentleman. When I ride Buster in the roundpen he's pretty mopey, can hardly get him to respond at all, but when I take him out in the pasture or on a trail, he perks right up. In fact his walk is even a little faster. I'm not saying he loves to run, because he doesn't. After all, we're not really going anywhere so what's the hurry But I think that there are some horses that don't get motivated when they feel confined. Could be what's up with your horse __________________ gonna do what I can instead of complain and fret about what I can't Joanie

08-13-2008, 05:39 PM
Jules Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	Version - he's much better on the trail or riding around our association than in an arena. He definitely associates the arena with hard, boring work, and I totally get that. He lopes well on the trails but it's super hard for him as it's ankle deep sand and with him being such a big guy, it really takes it out of him, plus almost all the good loping spots are uphill - even harder work. I know most of his issue is that he just doesn't want to do it but hopefully with more work and some tips from everyone here, I can at least get that one lap I want! I did buy him specifically because he's mellow and calm but I want just that little burst of energy sufficient to get his lazy butt around the ring once at a steady lope - maybe I'm asking the wrong horse! __________________ Jules Living in Las Vegas... loving my horse

08-14-2008, 07:48 AM
version1955 Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesnowdah Posts: 6,630	Jules, I don't know that you bought the wrong horse, but you are asking him to do something that is difficult for him to do. I'm guessing that as you develop your relationship with him and he becomes bonded to you in such a way that he wants to please you even to his detriment, you'll get your lope. But in my opinion it would be unfair to expect him to be happy about it or emphasize arena work. When I want to work Bussy, I do it in the pasture where I've mowed a circle for my "arena". Perhaps you could find a similar open space to do your 'arena' work. __________________ gonna do what I can instead of complain and fret about what I can't Joanie

08-14-2008, 07:57 AM
Sirita_88 Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mt. Juliet, Tennessee Posts: 1,296	I have a similar problem with my horse... He could canter all day long... but not lope. He used to only be able to hold a lope for a few strides and then he would break to a trot or speed up. I just really had to work on it, and after MONTHS of work he can finally stay in his lope for a longer period of time. My bet is that your horse will just take a lot of time. __________________ Paradise Performance Horses. http://www.freewebs.com/paradiseperformance/index.htm

08-14-2008, 08:03 AM
Slim Pikkens Started Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,948	He does it because he can. Try carrying a riding crop or stout stick. That may be enough for him to realize you mean business.

08-14-2008, 08:16 AM
Luvridn Long Yearling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mobile, Alabama Posts: 1,072	A good friend of mine is training a gelding very similar to him. Very lazy, and for that he has been nagged with feet every time anyone rides him. So he has learned to ignore your leg and just shut down. In the end the rider gets the workout trying to keep him going. She started him in the round pen on the ground using 2 clucks as a cue to trot and a kiss to lope. When she asks for either she expects it to be snappy, or he gets a touch on the rear. When he did that consistently, she put a rider (me) on him and she lunged him from the middle. She still had control over his gas and brakes. All I did was hold on. Then she had me be the gas while she stayed neutral in the middle. Then weaned herself out of the pen entirely. In a week he was trotting and loping off with a snappy departure. WITHOUT nagging him with my legs. You just have to be sure that when he departs you don't snatch his mouth until he figures things out. Then after that work on lengthening the amount of time he canters. Try more open places and straight lines. They say horses without a lot of go need to be going somewhere, and horses with too much go need circles. As far as your seat, try sitting on your outside thumb. That will put you in the correct position, over his rear. With your inside hand try to move with his motion. Your body will follow. Then he will be more comfortable because you are moving with him instead of against him. Gradually you will work down to less movement in yourself, but exaggerate it at first. It sounds ridiculous but I have seen it work. __________________ If your horse wants to bolt, there is probably a nut loose in the saddle! PP

08-14-2008, 10:48 AM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,388	I like the idea of you riding him with someone else in the pen to help you keep him going. You said yourself it's pretty hot there and that he hadn't been worked much before you got him. He's likely just not used to having to work like that. If you could have someone in the round pen with you, helping you to keep him going that may be a good option. I have a 6 year old right now that doesn't like to stay in the canter for very long. He's still building up the stamina and muscles to do such. __________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs.

08-14-2008, 11:52 AM
Jules Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	I just wrote a HUGE post replying to everyone and HT logged me out and ate it. I am SO bummed. Going to write it again, this time in Word... __________________ Jules Living in Las Vegas... loving my horse

08-14-2008, 12:32 PM
lbequ4002 Yearling Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Central AL Posts: 775	To drastically improve your seat ride on the trails at a walk with no stirrups on a regular basis. It sounds like laziness to me too especially if he's actually stopping sometimes. I have had several greenies like this and what I like to do is for the really lazy ones get a really and I mean really big stick, like a tree branch. Be careful getting on with it though. Then I go out into a very large arena or pasture and canter and canter and canter and if they stop without me asking or break the gait they canter some more. When I ask them to trot or stop and they comply we are done for the day. You have to be a little assertive and get your goal accomplished and be finished so the lazy ones figure out it's a whole lot more work to not canter/lope than to just do it. You can't do much if you can't go forward. With your improved seat you can drive him a little to help him get into the canter, by driving I mean site deep

08-14-2008, 12:34 PM
lbequ4002 Yearling Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Central AL Posts: 775	To drastically improve your seat ride on the trails at a walk with no stirrups on a regular basis. It sounds like laziness to me too especially if he's actually stopping sometimes. I have had several greenies like this and what I like to do is for the really lazy ones get a really and I mean really big stick, like a tree branch. Be careful getting on with it though. Then I go out into a very large arena or pasture and canter and canter and canter and if they stop without me asking or break the gait they canter some more. When I ask them to trot or stop and they comply we are done for the day. You have to be a little assertive and get your goal accomplished and be finished so the lazy ones figure out it's a whole lot more work to not canter/lope than to just do it. You can't do much if you can't go forward. With your improved seat you can drive him a little to help him get into the canter, by driving I mean sit deep and help him find his rythmn

08-14-2008, 12:37 PM
Jules Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	lbequ- ironically, I am very assertive with him in every other respect, but at the faster gaits - yeah, not so much. I think you're right in that I need to really get him to understand that it's not optional to canter - if I ask, I expect it until I ask for a different gait. In the round pen, he gets that - and he does it well. So that tells me it's me as well as him under saddle. I do a fair bit of walking without stirrups but not on the trails - so much out there that can catch you unawares, like jack rabbits, lizards, snakes, quail, etc etc. Having said that, if I can stick his small spooks without stirrups, that would work my seat, wouldn't it! Edited to add - getting a deep seat is a goal of mine and I realize now, 20 years on from when I rode every single day as a teen, how fabulous my seat used to be. And how age and lack of time and flexibility and all that adult stuff has impeded my riding progress! __________________ Jules Living in Las Vegas... loving my horse

08-14-2008, 12:56 PM
version1955 Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesnowdah Posts: 6,630	Jules, Thank you for your response. I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't or shouldn't lope him in the arena. My response was opening up the possibility that knowing WHY your horse won't lope/canter is the issue to helping him give you what you want. That being said, horses generally give you what you want if they understand what you want. They understand what you want better if you are able to better understand their style. Horses aren't as smart as you or I, that is why its up to us to make adjustments. From what you've said its not that he doesn't know what you want, it may even be that he has the physical conditioning to do what you want (not from him running riderless in the pasture but from your trail riding), but perhaps he doesn't understand that he must keep in the gait that you cue him until you tell him otherwise. That is a training issue and not a matter of him misbehaving. __________________ gonna do what I can instead of complain and fret about what I can't Joanie

08-14-2008, 01:06 PM
Valerie62 Weanling Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Washington, PA Posts: 256	I have been following this thread with interest because I have the same problem with my mare that I purchased in early May. She really had no training that I could tell - I had a difficult time just getting her to go in a straight line at a walk. Luckily I have a large indoor arena where I am boarding her but I am riding her home on Saturday where all I will have is a large open field to do flat work. It'll be interesting to see how that affects her movements/attitude. She'll be going from being stalled 20 hrs a day to 24/7 pasture. Oh boy.... She has come a long way in a few months though, but she does the same thing as yours when I ask for a canter (a few strides and goes back to a trot). My goal is like yours (canter the full circle of the arena). I'm slowly getting her to do it, using a crop and pushing pushing pushing with my legs and whole body) and if she stops before I ask for it - I make her pick up the canter again right away. I, too, believe it's just laziness - especially since my horse was rarely ridden before I bought her and probably never saw the inside of an arena.