Loping with the head down

jyates · 08-09-2008, 05:50 PM

Hi all,

I've been riding my sister in law's horse some and when he gets into a lope / gallop he usually drops his head down low. I usually pull his head back up but he seems to naturally want to move with the head down which where he hasn't ever bucked with me I don't like his head being low when moving at that faster rate of speed.

Do y'all know of anything that I can do to help him keep his head up when we move from a trot to a lope / gallop other than just hauling his head up with the reins?

He's a good horse and I want to make sure I'm doing the best I can for him and yet make sure I never get into a situation where he decides since his head is so low that he can buck freely.

Thanks,
Jim

cook1745 · 08-09-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyates

Hi all,

I've been riding my sister in law's horse some and when he gets into a lope / gallop he usually drops his head down low. I usually pull his head back up but he seems to naturally want to move with the head down which where he hasn't ever bucked with me I don't like his head being low when moving at that faster rate of speed.

Do y'all know of anything that I can do to help him keep his head up when we move from a trot to a lope / gallop other than just hauling his head up with the reins?

He's a good horse and I want to make sure I'm doing the best I can for him and yet make sure I never get into a situation where he decides since his head is so low that he can buck freely.

Thanks,
Jim

If he is a quarter horse type that is very comin for that type horse. I think you are used to gaited horses that naturally keeps the head high so it will feel strange. I wouldn't correct it unless he does seem to be a bucker when his head is down. If you make him raise it it could cause him to become rougher when loping out.

joustinggirl · 08-09-2008, 07:48 PM

Many horses that are not in shape or have a saddle that is uncomfortable will drop their head very low or bring it up very high to relieve themselves. How is his topline? Is it muscular along the whithers or do they seem boney and high?

Edited to ad, nice to see you, its been awhile!

horselover54 · 08-09-2008, 08:39 PM

Where a horse should carry its head depends on the horses breed. I wouldnt advise trying to pick the horses head up. How low is he carrying it? He may have been trained to carry it that way, he may be stretching it down to relieve back pain, or he may be trying to check out the footing. I would find someone experienced to watch him and you lope and see what they think. It is to hard to guess what is going on from a discription. Normally we want horses to flex at the poll, and drop their head to some extent, depending on the breed and discipline the horse was trained for.

**gbarmranch** · 08-09-2008, 08:51 PM

Good advice so far Jim..

Conformation, as well as past training, conditon of the topline.. all of those things play into it..

Another thing to check is teeth.. the comfort of the bit in his mouth can also influence his head position..

jyates · 08-09-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joustinggirl

Many horses that are not in shape or have a saddle that is uncomfortable will drop their head very low or bring it up very high to relieve themselves. How is his topline? Is it muscular along the whithers or do they seem boney and high?

Edited to ad, nice to see you, its been awhile!

Thanks for all the help so far folks!

Hi JG,

Been really busy but had to check in with a couple of questions since HT has a wealth of experience built into the membership!

"T" is a big and stout Morgan cross gelding about 15.2 - 15.3 hands....his withers area is high and narrow but not boney......fairly muscular in that area. He has big ole feet about the size of "pie pans".

Good thick pad and the saddle appears to fit him nicely as far as I can tell.

So far I've not really been able to get him to really go into a fast gallop or run. He tends to do a big lope where he has a lot of up and down action but not moving forward very quick compared to my quarter horse that can literally lay you back in the saddle when he wants to move.

jyates · 08-09-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbarmranch

Good advice so far Jim..

Conformation, as well as past training, conditon of the topline.. all of those things play into it..

Another thing to check is teeth.. the comfort of the bit in his mouth can also influence his head position..

Not sure about the training Val....as far as I know he was broke to ride but not professionally but he's not given me any problems other than being afraid of having water sprayed on him from a spray bottle (working on that little by little) and he's deathly afraid of donkeys....had one come up to the fence down the road a piece when we were riding and it was like he had seen a dragon....good think my seat sticks like glue or he would have dumped me when Mr. Donkey came over to watch us pass by.

As to the question of how low on the head.....I haven't leaned forward and looked down to see how close his head is to the ground but let's just say that he takes a few lopes and then the head goes down to where you can't see it in the riding position. He has never bucked like that but he's in the perfect position with that low head and high butt to start straight leg bucking for sure.

ToveroMom · 08-09-2008, 10:49 PM

does he do the same thing if he is being lunged while packing a saddle?

jyates · 08-09-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToveroMom

does he do the same thing if he is being lunged while packing a saddle?

Good question Tmom.....I've never lunged him......but we do have a lunge line that I can try it out on and see.

ToveroMom · 08-09-2008, 11:17 PM

That may just be the way he carries himself and there may be nothing wrong.
I would try that-may make you feel more comfortable that it is just HIM and he is not out to toss you.

**gbarmranch** · 08-10-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyates

Not sure about the training Val....as far as I know he was broke to ride but not professionally but he's not given me any problems other than being afraid of having water sprayed on him from a spray bottle (working on that little by little) and he's deathly afraid of donkeys....had one come up to the fence down the road a piece when we were riding and it was like he had seen a dragon....good think my seat sticks like glue or he would have dumped me when Mr. Donkey came over to watch us pass by.

As to the question of how low on the head.....I haven't leaned forward and looked down to see how close his head is to the ground but let's just say that he takes a few lopes and then the head goes down to where you can't see it in the riding position. He has never bucked like that but he's in the perfect position with that low head and high butt to start straight leg bucking for sure.

I hear you on that last part.. but TMom is right.. it may just be the way he carries himself.. How well collected is he.. If he is working well off his hind end - not heavy on his forehand - then it just may be is natural way...

keep us posted.. I have never had one that way... usually you have to teach them to drop the head.. you may just be darn lucky..

joustinggirl · 08-10-2008, 12:00 PM

Collection is the key, many western people think their low headed horse is doing great for WP, but in fact they are dropping their shoulder.

ToveroMom · 08-10-2008, 02:10 PM

Well that is not a hard one to call-and I am sure he would know the difference between that and proper collection.

I think I would agree if the statement was amended to "SOME western people."

Sunlei · 08-10-2008, 02:44 PM

I'm pretty much a novice with horse movement. Recently I learned that the morgans and QH move differently. The morgan uses a very strong rump for foward motion, the qh uses more of their front for foward action. Just a novices view

I'd look at the way some morgans move and hold their neck and see if you notice something off about your horse (morgan mix is he?)

I was surprised to learn there are 2 large ligaments that run either side of the horses spine. The ligaments run from the poll area all the way back down the hind legs. Thats why the saddle has a channel, check to make sure these have free action. Free action with and without weight in the saddle.

I learned if any of these ligaments have a motion problem or are cut the head can drop down to the ground. It would be worth it to make sure theres no problems in the hind end during the canter action causing a drop in the neck.

Could be something a good horse cyro. or massage will discover and help?

All I can think of to suggest without seeing any pictures or vids. Good luck, it must be a weird feeling to ride a horse that drops its head past the midline.

joustinggirl · 08-10-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToveroMom

Well that is not a hard one to call-and I am sure he would know the difference between that and proper collection.

I think I would agree if the statement was amended to "SOME western people."

Sorry, I still say many, the majority seem to be here in our area. Just like many of the area horse people don't consider a horse a barrel prospect if its not a little on edge. Sometimes its not so easy to tell if your horse has dropped or not.

Please, I meant not disrespect, I would hope you would know me better than that.

Wendy F · 08-10-2008, 04:35 PM

I am wondering if I understand this correctly. Is he dropping his head during a transition between a trot and a lope? Or is it the whole time?

I ask this because I was riding my partner's old stallion and he had done nothing but flexing and softening the mouth. When we started this horse on the games, it felt funny. He was so soft in the mouth that the slightest movement of my sitting back, when I brought him into a lope or gallop, made him drop his head immensely. It was a quick drop and was uncomfortable, then he would extend his head out and break into a lope.
Partner kept stopping him when he felt it because he thought the horse was trying to buck. When I rode him, a teenage bystander even said, "Did that horse try to buck you?" I told him "No" The horse did this everytime. When I told my partner what is was, he was a lot more comfortable with cotinuing the training. If this is not what the horse is doing...please disregard.

jyates · 08-11-2008, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendy F

I am wondering if I understand this correctly. Is he dropping his head during a transition between a trot and a lope? Or is it the whole time?

He gives 2 or 3 lopes and then he drops his head down. He travels with his head up while walking or trotting like a gaited horse but once it turns into a lope down the head goes. He is part Morgan...but I don't know what the other part is. "T" actually belongs to my sister in law and she brought him to the farm about 3 months ago and she was leary of him because she had been told that he would buck when he decided the ride was over. So I became the designated test dummy rider.

So far not the slightest hint of a buck from him. He did act like he wanted to throw a temper tantrum the first couple of times I rode him but he found out pretty quickly that it was easier to be nice than to work so he's been just fine.

My daughter has a digital camera that can take videos so I think I'll saddle him up next chance I get and post some video of him moving and see what y'all think of it.

Thanks so very much for all the input so far..HT is a great place to ask questions and take advantage of all the good experience and advice of horse folks.

ToveroMom · 08-11-2008, 09:10 AM

Of course not JG..I know you better than that.

jyates · 08-17-2008, 02:45 PM

Got a chance to ride a little some yesterday and Jessica took this video of me in the pasture with him before we put him up.

He didn't drop his head as much as usual but you can see him arching that neck and kinda shaking his head some as he moved.

Yep...we're from south arkansas so bear with the southern drawls....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS60mx-R9tM

jyates · 08-17-2008, 02:46 PM

Got the link right so it ought to work now.

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08-09-2008, 05:50 PM
jyates Coming two Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SouthWest Arkansas Posts: 1,504	Loping with the head down Hi all, I've been riding my sister in law's horse some and when he gets into a lope / gallop he usually drops his head down low. I usually pull his head back up but he seems to naturally want to move with the head down which where he hasn't ever bucked with me I don't like his head being low when moving at that faster rate of speed. Do y'all know of anything that I can do to help him keep his head up when we move from a trot to a lope / gallop other than just hauling his head up with the reins? He's a good horse and I want to make sure I'm doing the best I can for him and yet make sure I never get into a situation where he decides since his head is so low that he can buck freely. Thanks, Jim __________________

08-09-2008, 07:48 PM
joustinggirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boones Mill, Virgina Posts: 3,338	Many horses that are not in shape or have a saddle that is uncomfortable will drop their head very low or bring it up very high to relieve themselves. How is his topline? Is it muscular along the whithers or do they seem boney and high? Edited to ad, nice to see you, its been awhile! __________________ Pink Tiger says \'Grrrrrr\'

08-09-2008, 08:39 PM
horselover54 Newborn Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: idaho Posts: 9	Where a horse should carry its head depends on the horses breed. I wouldnt advise trying to pick the horses head up. How low is he carrying it? He may have been trained to carry it that way, he may be stretching it down to relieve back pain, or he may be trying to check out the footing. I would find someone experienced to watch him and you lope and see what they think. It is to hard to guess what is going on from a discription. Normally we want horses to flex at the poll, and drop their head to some extent, depending on the breed and discipline the horse was trained for.

08-09-2008, 08:51 PM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,233	Good advice so far Jim.. Conformation, as well as past training, conditon of the topline.. all of those things play into it.. Another thing to check is teeth.. the comfort of the bit in his mouth can also influence his head position.. __________________ Quality FoundationQuarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Minds are like parachutes – they only function when open – Thomas Dewar

08-09-2008, 10:49 PM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 15,299	does he do the same thing if he is being lunged while packing a saddle? __________________ "In America,anyone can be President. That is one of the chances you take" Adlai Stevenson

08-09-2008, 11:17 PM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 15,299	That may just be the way he carries himself and there may be nothing wrong. I would try that-may make you feel more comfortable that it is just HIM and he is not out to toss you. __________________ "In America,anyone can be President. That is one of the chances you take" Adlai Stevenson

08-10-2008, 12:00 PM
joustinggirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boones Mill, Virgina Posts: 3,338	Collection is the key, many western people think their low headed horse is doing great for WP, but in fact they are dropping their shoulder. __________________ Pink Tiger says \'Grrrrrr\'

08-10-2008, 02:10 PM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 15,299	Well that is not a hard one to call-and I am sure he would know the difference between that and proper collection. I think I would agree if the statement was amended to "SOME western people." __________________ "In America,anyone can be President. That is one of the chances you take" Adlai Stevenson

08-10-2008, 02:44 PM
Sunlei Yearling Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 950	I'm pretty much a novice with horse movement. Recently I learned that the morgans and QH move differently. The morgan uses a very strong rump for foward motion, the qh uses more of their front for foward action. Just a novices view I'd look at the way some morgans move and hold their neck and see if you notice something off about your horse (morgan mix is he?) I was surprised to learn there are 2 large ligaments that run either side of the horses spine. The ligaments run from the poll area all the way back down the hind legs. Thats why the saddle has a channel, check to make sure these have free action. Free action with and without weight in the saddle. I learned if any of these ligaments have a motion problem or are cut the head can drop down to the ground. It would be worth it to make sure theres no problems in the hind end during the canter action causing a drop in the neck. Could be something a good horse cyro. or massage will discover and help? All I can think of to suggest without seeing any pictures or vids. Good luck, it must be a weird feeling to ride a horse that drops its head past the midline.

08-10-2008, 04:35 PM
Wendy F Yearling Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 977	I am wondering if I understand this correctly. Is he dropping his head during a transition between a trot and a lope? Or is it the whole time? I ask this because I was riding my partner's old stallion and he had done nothing but flexing and softening the mouth. When we started this horse on the games, it felt funny. He was so soft in the mouth that the slightest movement of my sitting back, when I brought him into a lope or gallop, made him drop his head immensely. It was a quick drop and was uncomfortable, then he would extend his head out and break into a lope. Partner kept stopping him when he felt it because he thought the horse was trying to buck. When I rode him, a teenage bystander even said, "Did that horse try to buck you?" I told him "No" The horse did this everytime. When I told my partner what is was, he was a lot more comfortable with cotinuing the training. If this is not what the horse is doing...please disregard. __________________ Breaking,Training,Raising Quality bred QH's Home of Blue Roan Stallion "Blue Woody Hancock" AQHA, NFQHA 96.63% Foundation www.wfquarterhorses.com It should be a sin to talk about someones kids, horses, or dogs!

08-11-2008, 09:10 AM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 15,299	Of course not JG..I know you better than that. __________________ "In America,anyone can be President. That is one of the chances you take" Adlai Stevenson

08-17-2008, 02:45 PM
jyates Coming two Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SouthWest Arkansas Posts: 1,504	Got a chance to ride a little some yesterday and Jessica took this video of me in the pasture with him before we put him up. He didn't drop his head as much as usual but you can see him arching that neck and kinda shaking his head some as he moved. Yep...we're from south arkansas so bear with the southern drawls.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS60mx-R9tM __________________ Last edited by jyates : 08-17-2008 at 02:52 PM.

08-17-2008, 02:46 PM
jyates Coming two Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SouthWest Arkansas Posts: 1,504	Got the link right so it ought to work now. __________________ Last edited by jyates : 08-17-2008 at 02:55 PM.