Twisted Bit???????

Horse_luvr_6 · 01-02-2008, 10:51 AM

Myhorse, Blue, has been rooting a lot and not listening to my normal snaffle bit, so my trainer said to put a twisted bit on him. I was wondering if there was any other methods? Would a running martingale help at all??? We're also trying to teach him to put his head in the correct position as well. Anyone have any suggestions??? The twisted bit my trainer gave me is more gentle then the others I have seen or heard of.

horsebabyhehe · 01-02-2008, 10:56 AM

rooting can be caused by several different things. one of which may be a lack of conditioning. if you're trying to teach your horse to keep himself in the correct frame and he might not have the correct muscling yet to be in that frame. so he's trying, it's hard, he hurts, he roots. he could also be sore from previous workouts. this can be solved with a couple days rest or a good message. i would try going back a step and really, honestly, make sure he's got it before going to the next step with his frame. and try getting him a message. building muscle takes time and you may have pushed him a bit too fast. i would do all of this before blaming it on the bit and getting a more severe one and possible ruining a perfectly good mouth.

Horse_luvr_6 · 01-02-2008, 10:58 AM

What kind of things would you recommend to work on getting that muscle??

ohiobred · 01-02-2008, 05:15 PM

food and work. trotting helps build good muscle. start off easy. i don't know how much u use your horse, but i would increase the time in half hour increments every week. if u work him everyday he will need to step up his diet. i would never work him hard for more than 3 hours. i also use a supplement for my horse called maximum performance. i also use alfalfa pellets instead of giving him alot more oats. yes good massages will help more than u think. i hope this can help.

kshnooks · 01-02-2008, 05:27 PM

what is rooting?

EquineAlberta · 01-02-2008, 11:22 PM

THe problem with going to a stronger bit is that you are using pain to try to train your horse. Your horse may seem better at first, but soon he will learn to brace against that pain to and will root (pull down) in that bit too...and soon you will be a bit collector!

THe same is true of a running martingale...if the horse puts its head up, the bit is drawn down on the sensitive bars and pain is inflicted. The running does nothing if the horse hold a low head.

I would suggest going the opposite way, try to find a bit your horse finds more comfortable/gentle, or even go with a bitless option like a sidepull. if you have a single jointed bit now, perhaps try a french link or mullen mouth. Make sure that if it is a French Link that it is not too wide as that ruins the benefit of that type of bit.

When you horse feels more comfortable with the bit he won't feel the need to protect himself by bracey and rooting.

TO react to the rooting, I would add leg, and gently lift one hand up and out to the side a little and put him on a circle. Not to punish, just to take him off his front end. I would also reassess his training and see if he is being pushed past what you and he are really ready for.

Old German Cavalry manuals give this as their fix for rooting: Get off and walk your horse for at least 15 minutes. Seems like sound advice to me.

Karen

lopintoo · 01-03-2008, 11:34 PM

We use mild twisted bits if a horse gets lazy about giving and yielding to the bit, but they have to be used with soft hands. They are not a replacement for a smooth snaffle - only a training aide when needed. You may have already tried it, but rather than looking for different bits and gadgets have you tried more suppling and flexing with your regular bit? I would try working more on suppling your horse and getting him softer and more responsive. This does not mean bigger bits or heavier hands and pulling. It seems to be easier in a medium trot with a little more leg and work on timing your release when your horse gives and yields to the bit only using minimal force. He will soon learn that when he gives to your request that the pressure is released. It should also help with your head positioning. Only go to a twisted bit when absolutely necessary and only if you have soft hands. Relying on it will make your horse harder mouthed and eventually less responsive.

GreyDot · 01-04-2008, 04:13 PM

EquineAlberta's suggestion about 'going the opposite way' is a good one - I had to re-bit a mare that had been made into a rooter/snatcher, and ended up putting her into a bitless bridle for about 5 months, and it worked wonders. She did not have a hard mouth at all, but the 'trainer' to whom she had been sent to be worked up as a hunter couldn't do anything with her (no idea why - she's a big marshmallow, and very willing), and put her into a corkscrew full-cheek. This was probably just painful for her, so she'd do everything she could to get the harsh bit off the sensitive bars of her mouth. In the process, she learned to root & snatch at the bit very badly. It didn't help that her owner had been riding with the same trainer, and had hard hands to match the hard bit - and then wondered why this very sweet mare behaved like that. nyway, I took the bit away for several months, and when we did re-bit, it was just the way you'd do a baby, just let it hang in her mouth without touching it. I also used a fat KK Ultra, and she went very well in it. It really helped to just remove the bit, though, because it let her become comfortable in her mouth again. I have to wonder, also, whether they become so preoccupied with the pain in their mouth that they just can't pay attention to other aids, which also compounds the problem. Anyway, just thought I'd share that.

KW Horses · 01-04-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kshnooks

what is rooting?

I have to ask the same question?

EquineAlberta · 01-04-2008, 09:04 PM

ROoting is when a horse locks its jaw and yanks its head towards the ground pulling hard down on the reins.

It is typically a way that horses protect themselves from pain in the bit/rough hands. They lock their jaw and press their tongue into the bit to protect their bars and palate and then pull. Beginner lesson horses and trail horses often develop this habit.

Karen

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01-02-2008, 10:51 AM
Horse_luvr_6 Halter broke Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Racine Posts: 75	Twisted Bit??????? Myhorse, Blue, has been rooting a lot and not listening to my normal snaffle bit, so my trainer said to put a twisted bit on him. I was wondering if there was any other methods? Would a running martingale help at all??? We're also trying to teach him to put his head in the correct position as well. Anyone have any suggestions??? The twisted bit my trainer gave me is more gentle then the others I have seen or heard of.

01-02-2008, 10:56 AM
horsebabyhehe Yearling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 558	rooting can be caused by several different things. one of which may be a lack of conditioning. if you're trying to teach your horse to keep himself in the correct frame and he might not have the correct muscling yet to be in that frame. so he's trying, it's hard, he hurts, he roots. he could also be sore from previous workouts. this can be solved with a couple days rest or a good message. i would try going back a step and really, honestly, make sure he's got it before going to the next step with his frame. and try getting him a message. building muscle takes time and you may have pushed him a bit too fast. i would do all of this before blaming it on the bit and getting a more severe one and possible ruining a perfectly good mouth. __________________ The mind is a terrible place for a frog to sit and stuff his face!!!

01-02-2008, 10:58 AM
Horse_luvr_6 Halter broke Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Racine Posts: 75	What kind of things would you recommend to work on getting that muscle??

01-02-2008, 05:15 PM
ohiobred Weanling Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: northern ohio Posts: 210	food and work. trotting helps build good muscle. start off easy. i don't know how much u use your horse, but i would increase the time in half hour increments every week. if u work him everyday he will need to step up his diet. i would never work him hard for more than 3 hours. i also use a supplement for my horse called maximum performance. i also use alfalfa pellets instead of giving him alot more oats. yes good massages will help more than u think. i hope this can help. __________________ that forge ain't for cookin your lunch in boy! Last edited by ohiobred : 01-02-2008 at 05:19 PM.

01-02-2008, 05:27 PM
kshnooks Coming two Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: California Posts: 1,925	what is rooting?

01-02-2008, 11:22 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,688	THe problem with going to a stronger bit is that you are using pain to try to train your horse. Your horse may seem better at first, but soon he will learn to brace against that pain to and will root (pull down) in that bit too...and soon you will be a bit collector! THe same is true of a running martingale...if the horse puts its head up, the bit is drawn down on the sensitive bars and pain is inflicted. The running does nothing if the horse hold a low head. I would suggest going the opposite way, try to find a bit your horse finds more comfortable/gentle, or even go with a bitless option like a sidepull. if you have a single jointed bit now, perhaps try a french link or mullen mouth. Make sure that if it is a French Link that it is not too wide as that ruins the benefit of that type of bit. When you horse feels more comfortable with the bit he won't feel the need to protect himself by bracey and rooting. TO react to the rooting, I would add leg, and gently lift one hand up and out to the side a little and put him on a circle. Not to punish, just to take him off his front end. I would also reassess his training and see if he is being pushed past what you and he are really ready for. Old German Cavalry manuals give this as their fix for rooting: Get off and walk your horse for at least 15 minutes. Seems like sound advice to me. Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB CHT Horse Stories!

01-03-2008, 11:34 PM
lopintoo Long Yearling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,314	We use mild twisted bits if a horse gets lazy about giving and yielding to the bit, but they have to be used with soft hands. They are not a replacement for a smooth snaffle - only a training aide when needed. You may have already tried it, but rather than looking for different bits and gadgets have you tried more suppling and flexing with your regular bit? I would try working more on suppling your horse and getting him softer and more responsive. This does not mean bigger bits or heavier hands and pulling. It seems to be easier in a medium trot with a little more leg and work on timing your release when your horse gives and yields to the bit only using minimal force. He will soon learn that when he gives to your request that the pressure is released. It should also help with your head positioning. Only go to a twisted bit when absolutely necessary and only if you have soft hands. Relying on it will make your horse harder mouthed and eventually less responsive.

01-04-2008, 04:13 PM
GreyDot Started Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hamilton, OH Posts: 2,327	EquineAlberta's suggestion about 'going the opposite way' is a good one - I had to re-bit a mare that had been made into a rooter/snatcher, and ended up putting her into a bitless bridle for about 5 months, and it worked wonders. She did not have a hard mouth at all, but the 'trainer' to whom she had been sent to be worked up as a hunter couldn't do anything with her (no idea why - she's a big marshmallow, and very willing), and put her into a corkscrew full-cheek. This was probably just painful for her, so she'd do everything she could to get the harsh bit off the sensitive bars of her mouth. In the process, she learned to root & snatch at the bit very badly. It didn't help that her owner had been riding with the same trainer, and had hard hands to match the hard bit - and then wondered why this very sweet mare behaved like that. nyway, I took the bit away for several months, and when we did re-bit, it was just the way you'd do a baby, just let it hang in her mouth without touching it. I also used a fat KK Ultra, and she went very well in it. It really helped to just remove the bit, though, because it let her become comfortable in her mouth again. I have to wonder, also, whether they become so preoccupied with the pain in their mouth that they just can't pay attention to other aids, which also compounds the problem. Anyway, just thought I'd share that. __________________ ...There is nothing to be done till a horse's head is settled. ~William Cavendish No lesson is learned as thoroughly as the one taught to oneself. ~Another rare moment

01-04-2008, 09:04 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,688	ROoting is when a horse locks its jaw and yanks its head towards the ground pulling hard down on the reins. It is typically a way that horses protect themselves from pain in the bit/rough hands. They lock their jaw and press their tongue into the bit to protect their bars and palate and then pull. Beginner lesson horses and trail horses often develop this habit. Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB CHT Horse Stories!