Barrel training..problems!

Fancy's Mom · 11-09-2007, 07:00 PM

Ok ive been training my mare for barrels for a bit now..we have gotten to the point of trotting to the barrels...Its the first barrel im having issues with....At a walk she goes around it perfectly but once i ask her to get a bit faster she seems she is "scared of it eating her rump".. she makes it a point to swing out real wide and make sure her butt swings out even wider..She knows leg cues as i use them each time she goes around the barrel so im not pulling her mouth..

She goes around the second and third barrel without me even using the reins and with only leg pressure so she knows what she is supposed to do.

Whats up with the first barrel and her wanting to "get far away from it if we are going faster"

We are not running the pattern..She knows it to a T at the walk but she is having difficulties at a faster gait..(trotting)

Also on some video's ive seen on Youtube..why in the world are they constantly kicking the horse between the barrels and to home? Is there a point to that..I surely dont do it.

luckyhorseshoes · 11-09-2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azera

Also on some video's ive seen on Youtube..why in the world are they constantly kicking the horse between the barrels and to home? Is there a point to that..I surely dont do it.

I know I hate it when they kick the horse. It just doesn't seem fair. The horse is giving you all it can!

As for the training I don't have any words of wisdom. Good luck though! Sounds like you are having fun!

**seerfarm** · 11-09-2007, 07:07 PM

Are you a right barrel starter with the first turn left, or are you a left barrel starter with a right turn first?

Fancy's Mom · 11-09-2007, 07:08 PM

yeah..ive done the speed training with her..Its just one barrel and you run full speed and turn and run home..I never kick her doing so and she give me her all because i ask her to and not because im twitching or kicking her..I dont use a tie down either..I havent timed her on speed but i want to know how fast she is.

Fancy's Mom · 11-09-2007, 07:11 PM

I turn to the right first.....

**seerfarm** · 11-09-2007, 07:33 PM

Am I right in assuming that this is her weak side?

Fancy's Mom · 11-09-2007, 07:42 PM

Im not really sure..It very well could be..But sometimes just riding her she gives me problems if i want her to turn left which i just think thats a bit of stubborness in her...

But turning to the right on that first barrel she does it perfect at a walk, anything faster than a walk she is like wide open spaces turning...I have NO problem turning left on the barrels...

ahh she is my crazy mare!

I really would like to compete next show season with her...This isnt any money prize shows just fun shows...I would like to get her to a point where we are going for buckles or money..

**seerfarm** · 11-09-2007, 07:49 PM

It sounds as if it may be her weak side, and I think that in being so, at the trot the dive into the barrel is unbalancing to her. She is taking a wider path to keep your weight back more and thus off on that forehand. Would suggest trying some strengthening exercises to that side, and then try her again. Lots of circles that spiral in and out to her right. Don't ignore the left, you do not want an unbalanced horse.

Fancy's Mom · 11-09-2007, 08:00 PM

When u say spiral in and out, what does that mean..like start wider circles and graduate to smaller and smaller ones

**seerfarm** · 11-09-2007, 08:09 PM

Yes, If you have an arena to work in you will use half. Circle around as close to the rail as you can and stay in a circle. Two or three circles around and then come in about a horse length and repeat. You will probably get about three circle rings this way. Now when you head out, head out on the opposite lead only circling once at each ring. Once you notice that she has softened pick up your pace and build on it from there. You can also add figure eights that will help with the balancing issue.

Fancy's Mom · 11-09-2007, 08:35 PM

Oh .....ok got ya....I dont have an arena to work with....I have no roundpen either...So, is there a way to make a small arena with blocks and pvc pipe or something else..How big should the arena be...I practice the barrels in the pasture...

**seerfarm** · 11-09-2007, 08:46 PM

Yep....Measure yourself out about 90 feet of string. Or tie 90ft. of hay strings together and then tie to a stake. Find your center point push in stake and pull out the string till it is tight. Drop a 6 ft lenth of PVC there, walk about 6 -8 ft. keeping string tight and drop another. keep going until you complete the circle. Pull up your stake and string and then go back and set the PVC through the blocks, this should make you a good size working area.

PaintsQH · 11-09-2007, 08:51 PM

I wouldnt ask her for a lope until she has the trot perfect. Baby steps. She might be losing her confidance. I had a mare that was being trained for barrels and as soon as you asked her for more speed she would get all wiggy. She had a weak right side, so she was started to the left. She got very nervous and would swing her butt on the third when she went to the right. this was at a walk..

Fancy's Mom · 11-09-2007, 09:00 PM

I havent loped her at all....Ive only advanced to the trot and its then when the trouble started..She is fine as can be on the walk..I didnt start the trot till she was perfect on the walk...She can turn it without me using the reins and only with leg pressure..

Well i will have to find me a nice area to "set" up my riding arena, that can also double as the barrel arena too, right....

cutter123 · 11-09-2007, 10:25 PM

Often a rider also has a weak side, along with a horse. Just like signing your name with your left hand, if you are right handed...

If you are leaning into your turn when you turn right around the fist barrel at a trot, especially if you are leaning back and leaning in, then you will cause your horse to kick her hip out and go wide.

Sometimes a rider will do this inadvertently. If you feel her start to go wide at the first barrel, you go to tip her nose to it, and you inadvertently brace your pull against your body weight, much like you would put your leg on a lawnmower to brace against the pull cord to start it. This puts your weight to the inside, makes it easy for a horse to bulge out...especially if the horse already wants to.

The added speed of the trot makes it show up more than the walk, where you might be sitting square on top a bit better.

A lot of "dry" work (work without barrels), gaining hip and shoulder control, teaching your horse to stay between your legs, will help. But it only helps if you stay centered, on top, and do YOUR part to keep your horse between your legs. That means don't lean to the inside of your turns!

When you go back around the barrels, to the right at a trot, think about tipping your horse's nose towards the barrel, but put your weight to the outside of the turn. Push down in your left stirrup, put your weight down that leg. This will make it less likely to "bulge" out of her turn. Remember to look ahead the direction you are going.

Training a green horse to do some sort of performance thing, like barrels or anything, is a matter of teaching them how to move correctly. In order for this to happen, YOU have to know how they need to be set up, and you need to know how to use your body to help them get set up this way. You basically lend them YOUR coordination. Especially to their weak side.

I hope this makes a bit of sense. Good luck!

Fancy's Mom · 11-09-2007, 10:38 PM

Thanks cutter..that really enlightened me and made me think of how i do ride her when we are practicing...I will tell you Ive never had lessons and i know im not a perfect rider and could fix some things in my riding skills...And thinking back on how i ride her i do tend to lean on the right side in the saddle and not sit straight up sometimes...

and thinking back of today's ride you know i never looked up but always kept my eye on the barrel

and leaned to the right...

I dont have money for a trainer

Right now im not trying to make it to the big time...Just for fun and maybe a ribbon, even if its 4th place

cutter123 · 11-09-2007, 11:08 PM

LOL I'm glad it helped!

It's okay if you haven't had lessons or money for a trainer. That is what makes being aware of your own body in the saddle most important. If you can be aware of where you are, then you can progress

Sometimes on the ground, I will stand with my legs about shoulder width apart, and practice shifting my weight from one leg to the other without leaning my upper body, making the shift down in the lower back and lower body. You might be able to feel yourself being weaker or less balanced on one leg or the other. This is a good reminder of how to shift your weight, though, and can help with your turns/lateral work when you get back in the saddle.

Going around the barrels, it might help to talk to yourself out loud, repeating the steps for going around. Remind yourself to get to the outside and look up and in the direction of your turn. If you pick out several spots in your arena, like a bush, or a section of fence, and remind yourself to look at that spot.

Here, you can see in this picture how I get to the outside of the turn... this keeps the horse in tight.

Good luck with your training! I hope you do get that ribbon, even a blue one

Just keep trying!

Fancy's Mom · 11-09-2007, 11:28 PM

thanks very much for your help...I will try some of the advice next practice session.....

So when the horse is turning say right in the barrel i shift my weight to the left?

Ive seen some leg squats on RFDTV to help balance in the saddle...I so love that channel...

To me i can see things and watch things but when i try to apply it, it just umm never works....How i learn how things are done, you have to be there showing me and telling me step by step, hey this needs to be done this way or hey your doing that backwards or wrong....

like one show had shown me how to properly tie a rope halter when u buckle it across the horses head, I managed to get it one time but have yet to get it again..lol..

cutter123 · 11-09-2007, 11:56 PM

Yeah, there is a big difference between understanding a concept, or "getting" something in theory, and actually knowing it, being able to execute, to get one's body to do it! But if you are aware of it, then you have a big advantage...and if you keep trying, you will get it.

Yes, to turn right, put your weight in your left leg.

Doing things slowly always helps because it gives you time to think it through and get it right. Spending time on getting it right slowly always pays off in the long run

Fancy's Mom · 11-10-2007, 12:00 AM

Thanks you been a big help......I dont plan on showing till sometime after spring and possibly not all the time....I will have all winter and the spring to practice....I know it takes years to get them and us completley trained for barrels but our time will be done slow with only a few practice shows.

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11-09-2007, 07:00 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	Barrel training..problems! Ok ive been training my mare for barrels for a bit now..we have gotten to the point of trotting to the barrels...Its the first barrel im having issues with....At a walk she goes around it perfectly but once i ask her to get a bit faster she seems she is "scared of it eating her rump".. she makes it a point to swing out real wide and make sure her butt swings out even wider..She knows leg cues as i use them each time she goes around the barrel so im not pulling her mouth.. She goes around the second and third barrel without me even using the reins and with only leg pressure so she knows what she is supposed to do. Whats up with the first barrel and her wanting to "get far away from it if we are going faster" We are not running the pattern..She knows it to a T at the walk but she is having difficulties at a faster gait..(trotting) Also on some video's ive seen on Youtube..why in the world are they constantly kicking the horse between the barrels and to home? Is there a point to that..I surely dont do it.

11-09-2007, 07:07 PM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Out with the Herd! Posts: 8,235	Are you a right barrel starter with the first turn left, or are you a left barrel starter with a right turn first? __________________ "Year's end is neither an end nor a beginning but a going on, with all the wisdom that experience can instill in us". ~Hal Borland

11-09-2007, 07:08 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	yeah..ive done the speed training with her..Its just one barrel and you run full speed and turn and run home..I never kick her doing so and she give me her all because i ask her to and not because im twitching or kicking her..I dont use a tie down either..I havent timed her on speed but i want to know how fast she is.

11-09-2007, 07:11 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	I turn to the right first.....

11-09-2007, 07:33 PM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Out with the Herd! Posts: 8,235	Am I right in assuming that this is her weak side? __________________ "Year's end is neither an end nor a beginning but a going on, with all the wisdom that experience can instill in us". ~Hal Borland

11-09-2007, 07:42 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	Im not really sure..It very well could be..But sometimes just riding her she gives me problems if i want her to turn left which i just think thats a bit of stubborness in her... But turning to the right on that first barrel she does it perfect at a walk, anything faster than a walk she is like wide open spaces turning...I have NO problem turning left on the barrels... ahh she is my crazy mare! I really would like to compete next show season with her...This isnt any money prize shows just fun shows...I would like to get her to a point where we are going for buckles or money..

11-09-2007, 07:49 PM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Out with the Herd! Posts: 8,235	It sounds as if it may be her weak side, and I think that in being so, at the trot the dive into the barrel is unbalancing to her. She is taking a wider path to keep your weight back more and thus off on that forehand. Would suggest trying some strengthening exercises to that side, and then try her again. Lots of circles that spiral in and out to her right. Don't ignore the left, you do not want an unbalanced horse. __________________ "Year's end is neither an end nor a beginning but a going on, with all the wisdom that experience can instill in us". ~Hal Borland

11-09-2007, 08:00 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	When u say spiral in and out, what does that mean..like start wider circles and graduate to smaller and smaller ones

11-09-2007, 08:09 PM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Out with the Herd! Posts: 8,235	Yes, If you have an arena to work in you will use half. Circle around as close to the rail as you can and stay in a circle. Two or three circles around and then come in about a horse length and repeat. You will probably get about three circle rings this way. Now when you head out, head out on the opposite lead only circling once at each ring. Once you notice that she has softened pick up your pace and build on it from there. You can also add figure eights that will help with the balancing issue. __________________ "Year's end is neither an end nor a beginning but a going on, with all the wisdom that experience can instill in us". ~Hal Borland

11-09-2007, 08:35 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	Oh .....ok got ya....I dont have an arena to work with....I have no roundpen either...So, is there a way to make a small arena with blocks and pvc pipe or something else..How big should the arena be...I practice the barrels in the pasture...

11-09-2007, 08:46 PM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Out with the Herd! Posts: 8,235	Yep....Measure yourself out about 90 feet of string. Or tie 90ft. of hay strings together and then tie to a stake. Find your center point push in stake and pull out the string till it is tight. Drop a 6 ft lenth of PVC there, walk about 6 -8 ft. keeping string tight and drop another. keep going until you complete the circle. Pull up your stake and string and then go back and set the PVC through the blocks, this should make you a good size working area. __________________ "Year's end is neither an end nor a beginning but a going on, with all the wisdom that experience can instill in us". ~Hal Borland

11-09-2007, 08:51 PM
PaintsQH Started Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,578	I wouldnt ask her for a lope until she has the trot perfect. Baby steps. She might be losing her confidance. I had a mare that was being trained for barrels and as soon as you asked her for more speed she would get all wiggy. She had a weak right side, so she was started to the left. She got very nervous and would swing her butt on the third when she went to the right. this was at a walk.. __________________ Care, and not fine stables, makes a good horse.

11-09-2007, 09:00 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	I havent loped her at all....Ive only advanced to the trot and its then when the trouble started..She is fine as can be on the walk..I didnt start the trot till she was perfect on the walk...She can turn it without me using the reins and only with leg pressure.. Well i will have to find me a nice area to "set" up my riding arena, that can also double as the barrel arena too, right....

11-09-2007, 10:25 PM
cutter123 Weanling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cali Posts: 475	Often a rider also has a weak side, along with a horse. Just like signing your name with your left hand, if you are right handed... If you are leaning into your turn when you turn right around the fist barrel at a trot, especially if you are leaning back and leaning in, then you will cause your horse to kick her hip out and go wide. Sometimes a rider will do this inadvertently. If you feel her start to go wide at the first barrel, you go to tip her nose to it, and you inadvertently brace your pull against your body weight, much like you would put your leg on a lawnmower to brace against the pull cord to start it. This puts your weight to the inside, makes it easy for a horse to bulge out...especially if the horse already wants to. The added speed of the trot makes it show up more than the walk, where you might be sitting square on top a bit better. A lot of "dry" work (work without barrels), gaining hip and shoulder control, teaching your horse to stay between your legs, will help. But it only helps if you stay centered, on top, and do YOUR part to keep your horse between your legs. That means don't lean to the inside of your turns! When you go back around the barrels, to the right at a trot, think about tipping your horse's nose towards the barrel, but put your weight to the outside of the turn. Push down in your left stirrup, put your weight down that leg. This will make it less likely to "bulge" out of her turn. Remember to look ahead the direction you are going. Training a green horse to do some sort of performance thing, like barrels or anything, is a matter of teaching them how to move correctly. In order for this to happen, YOU have to know how they need to be set up, and you need to know how to use your body to help them get set up this way. You basically lend them YOUR coordination. Especially to their weak side. I hope this makes a bit of sense. Good luck!

11-09-2007, 10:38 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	Thanks cutter..that really enlightened me and made me think of how i do ride her when we are practicing...I will tell you Ive never had lessons and i know im not a perfect rider and could fix some things in my riding skills...And thinking back on how i ride her i do tend to lean on the right side in the saddle and not sit straight up sometimes... and thinking back of today's ride you know i never looked up but always kept my eye on the barrel and leaned to the right... I dont have money for a trainer Right now im not trying to make it to the big time...Just for fun and maybe a ribbon, even if its 4th place

11-09-2007, 11:08 PM
cutter123 Weanling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cali Posts: 475	LOL I'm glad it helped! It's okay if you haven't had lessons or money for a trainer. That is what makes being aware of your own body in the saddle most important. If you can be aware of where you are, then you can progress Sometimes on the ground, I will stand with my legs about shoulder width apart, and practice shifting my weight from one leg to the other without leaning my upper body, making the shift down in the lower back and lower body. You might be able to feel yourself being weaker or less balanced on one leg or the other. This is a good reminder of how to shift your weight, though, and can help with your turns/lateral work when you get back in the saddle. Going around the barrels, it might help to talk to yourself out loud, repeating the steps for going around. Remind yourself to get to the outside and look up and in the direction of your turn. If you pick out several spots in your arena, like a bush, or a section of fence, and remind yourself to look at that spot. Here, you can see in this picture how I get to the outside of the turn... this keeps the horse in tight. Good luck with your training! I hope you do get that ribbon, even a blue one Just keep trying!

11-09-2007, 11:28 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	thanks very much for your help...I will try some of the advice next practice session..... So when the horse is turning say right in the barrel i shift my weight to the left? Ive seen some leg squats on RFDTV to help balance in the saddle...I so love that channel... To me i can see things and watch things but when i try to apply it, it just umm never works....How i learn how things are done, you have to be there showing me and telling me step by step, hey this needs to be done this way or hey your doing that backwards or wrong.... like one show had shown me how to properly tie a rope halter when u buckle it across the horses head, I managed to get it one time but have yet to get it again..lol..

11-09-2007, 11:56 PM
cutter123 Weanling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cali Posts: 475	Yeah, there is a big difference between understanding a concept, or "getting" something in theory, and actually knowing it, being able to execute, to get one's body to do it! But if you are aware of it, then you have a big advantage...and if you keep trying, you will get it. Yes, to turn right, put your weight in your left leg. Doing things slowly always helps because it gives you time to think it through and get it right. Spending time on getting it right slowly always pays off in the long run

11-10-2007, 12:00 AM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	Thanks you been a big help......I dont plan on showing till sometime after spring and possibly not all the time....I will have all winter and the spring to practice....I know it takes years to get them and us completley trained for barrels but our time will be done slow with only a few practice shows.