Getting Horse over Shots

RealFolkBlue · 10-22-2007, 08:29 PM

Is it possible to desensitize a horse to injections. Are there any tips to making injections easier?

My boy Diego turns in Diablo when it's vaccination time. Once you poke him with that needle, he will either rear, strike, bolt, or a combination of the two. He usually does it in a spilt second before we can even squirt the vaccination in him. He has taken out a couple of people when it was vaccination time.

I've heard that just poke the horse with a toothpick for a while and he will get use to picking sensation. Tried it and it just pissed him off. Twitching him does not work and having a stud chain does not help at all. It actually makes it worse.

I was thinking that maybe put liniment in the injection area so that it is sorta numb before we poke him. As anyone tried that? Has anyone had any luck with those quieting supplements that they sell in the horse catalogs?

Thanks in advance

**seerfarm** · 10-22-2007, 08:47 PM

My big gelding is the same way. Never had an issue with anything, but at 4 yrs. old he decided he was big enough and strong enough to not get poked. Just curious as to how and with what you are twitching with, as this works long enough for him to get coggins and shots. He could be also sensing you getting a little stressed anticipating the fight he is gonna put up. They are smart little boogers. I do not think the calming suppliments are gonna help, as if it is the only time he gets antsy wouldn't make much sense as well. Have you talked with the vet about a feed through sedative about an hour before he is to have his shots. I had one in my boarding barn that was this way, the only way you could do it was to feed him w/sedative mixed in about an hour before. Haven't ever heard of using liniment, still wouldn't think it could mask the needle and burn of the medicine. Hope you can find an answer, as it is dangerous for you both.

Carri · 10-22-2007, 08:58 PM

The vet could apply lidocaine topically before giving the injection, and that would help, but if he is already anticipating it and getting upset because he knows it is coming, that would not really help.

snickers · 10-22-2007, 09:02 PM

Pinching the area where the shot goes helps them get use to the sting of the needle. Pinch and hold for a few seconds and release.
Do this daily a few times a day until he stands for it.

Works. We do it to the WILD mustangs and they take the shots like a pro.

Just did it to one that needed a coggins and had no trouble.

RealFolkBlue · 10-22-2007, 09:34 PM

Thanks for that tip snickers. That sounds like a affective way to desensitize him to needles. He might tolerate that better then just being poked by toothpicks. I will start doing that and hopefully it will ease his dislike for needles.

He knows something is going on when either Marilyn or the vet comes into his stall. Once they enter, he runs into the paddock of his stall. He always stares at them with the look on his face of "you are going to do something to me that I don't like". You cant sneak shots with this one, we tried.

Last vaccinations we used the twitch. It was one of those aluminum one hand twitches. As soon as it was tight on his muzzle. He gave a slight rear, and a strike out in the air. After that he was still a moving target.

Hopefully he can get over the dislike for needles in a matter of time.

snickers · 10-22-2007, 09:52 PM

He has had a bad experience with them and needs to feel comfortable again.
Twitching will only make matters worse.
Pain for pain. If I was in pain, I wouldnt stand still either.
I dont use twitches or stud chains. I have a different approach, get their trust first.

Once they know they can trust you not to put them in danger, they will let you do just about anything.

Take your time and see how affective it is.
If you know how to give shots, then I suggest once he lets you pinch him without retreat, you give him his shots and not in the stall area where he has had them before.

Give him his shots in different areas of the barn, paddock, yard, etc., etc., then he wont know whats happening.

EquineAlberta · 10-22-2007, 11:01 PM

Although I agree with the desensitizing ideas, I am not so sure about the lidocaine as I doubt it would go deep enough.

For now, I would likely slip him some Powder or liquid Ace before the vet visit so he is "relaxed" when the vet comes. We had to do that with Ziggy.

Karen

**seerfarm** · 10-23-2007, 06:34 AM

Sorry guys, but I am gonna have to agree, to disagree. As I too greatly believe in desensitation, and changing routine etc., it does not always work. I also agree that horses can associate it with a bad experience, but again not always the case. Just like in people there is always that one thing that you will not tolerate or for some reason cannot tolerate. I believe my gelding falls into this category. He has had no bad experience, not sick alot and in need of long term care,etc. I have done major desensitizing work with him throughout his life, and there is no question about trust. He always knows what is coming, and he does not like it. I do not agree that done right twitching can be a bad thing. If done wrong or in excess yes, but there is no need for medication in his situation as it takes about 1 minute with the twitch to get the job done. Some things just need to be done, you find what works. The main point here is that humans and horses are both safe, and without trauma mentally and pyhsically.

Carri · 10-23-2007, 06:49 AM

Unless it is a shot that stings, which vaccinations do not, the only pain is generally the entry of the needle, in which case, lidocaine is very effective. Just like when you go into the hospital, if you have a very low tolerance of pain, they can rub lidocaine on your skin to lessen the trauma of getting an IV.

David · 10-23-2007, 07:10 AM

The only thing that I have done THAT WORKED was to go as often as possible and act like I was giving shots. I would have someone hold the head then I would cover the near eye with my hand and either pinch or flip the horse in the area where I would give the shot. Also when I went to give the actual shot I didn't put the needle all the way in. If you push the needle all the way in, the horse can feel it bottom out because the syringe tube hits the skin. I had a horse that would take shots (after a while of desensitizing) as long as the needle didn't bottom out.

Carri · 10-23-2007, 07:20 AM

For some reason, too, it seems like it hurts less for them if you smack or punch the area a few times, then insert the needle without the syringe attached, then put the syringe on and give the shot. I really don't know why this works, but it really seems to. The vet I work for just did some horses at the barn that way, and it really worked, they did not react at all.

soccer mom · 10-23-2007, 07:25 AM

could you learn to give the shots yourself? My Morab gelding went into a panic as soon as the vet stepped foot in the barn. The BO (who also fed daily) could walk in and give him anything (don't mess with the food source). Also, try a differnt location than his stall. Some horses figure that is their space and do not appreciate any invasions.

dcs2004 · 10-23-2007, 08:02 AM

We just went through this! We were warned that Pali is bad with shots, so training began. Can you say roundpen? I got some syringes without needles and let her sniff, chew, play with them until she was used to seeing them around. Then we started the real fun. I would take her in the roundpen and simulate the shot process, needleless of course. I did the skin pinch and would push the syringe against her skin. If she flipped out I didn't fight her, we worked until she chilled out and we tried again. We did this once a day for a week, and when the vet came out Friday she was a champ! She stood there, with the lead draped over her neck, head low, and didn't move an inch. Hubby thought she was asleep!

snickers · 10-23-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seerfarm

Sorry guys, but I am gonna have to agree, to disagree. As I too greatly believe in desensitation, and changing routine etc., it does not always work. I also agree that horses can associate it with a bad experience, but again not always the case. Just like in people there is always that one thing that you will not tolerate or for some reason cannot tolerate. I believe my gelding falls into this category. He has had no bad experience, not sick alot and in need of long term care,etc. I have done major desensitizing work with him throughout his life, and there is no question about trust. He always knows what is coming, and he does not like it. I do not agree that done right twitching can be a bad thing. If done wrong or in excess yes, but there is no need for medication in his situation as it takes about 1 minute with the twitch to get the job done. Some things just need to be done, you find what works. The main point here is that humans and horses are both safe, and without trauma mentally and pyhsically.

We will have to agree to disagree then.

Good luck RealFolkBlue, hope you can work this out.

Mule Fool · 10-23-2007, 08:13 AM

Just wanted to say something about twitching. The purpose isn't to cause pain, it's more of a distraction and it also releases endorphins in the horses blood stream which is a GOOD thing. If you're doing it hard enough to cause pain you're not doing it right.
The only problem with using the pounding with the fist first on a horse that hates shots is that the next time you pound once you probably won't get a second one in.

Sometimes grabbing a fold of skin on the neck and pinching REALLY hard will help. The pinching kind of numbs the area.
I liked dcs2004 idea. Anytime you can get a horse to make the DECISION to do the right thing, it's a good thing!

**TDH** · 10-23-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carri

For some reason, too, it seems like it hurts less for them if you smack or punch the area a few times, then insert the needle without the syringe attached, then put the syringe on and give the shot. I really don't know why this works, but it really seems to. The vet I work for just did some horses at the barn that way, and it really worked, they did not react at all.

That's my basic method - I firmly tap with my finger in the exact spot I'm going to inject; I do many horses (besides my own, I do my Mom's/sister's/aunt's) and this has always worked well.

My riding mare used to have a needle phobia, and that's how I got her over it. I'd tap her every time I worked with her, so that when it actually became injection time, she didn't know the difference (as long as she didn't see the syringe).

Also another tip--don't inject with the syringe attached. Inject just the needle; if they do fuss/fight, there's much less chance of the needle coming out and you needing to poke again.

Carri · 10-23-2007, 08:45 AM

I wondered what the reasoning was behing putting the needle in first then attaching the syringe! I knew it worked, because I have seen it, but I didn't know why...

Pasogirl · 10-23-2007, 08:51 AM

I have the exact same problem with one of mine. And I agree that if used properly the twitch does not cause pain, it releases endorphins and can relax them. It worked on ours only when we took her to the vet rather than having the vet come to us. Can't say that will work again cause she's smart but maybe the change of scenery would keep her guessing. We've given ace orally and it took the edge off until she saw the vet then it was like we'd never given any. All that to say, no solutions here sorry, but I can feel your pain!!!

snickers · 10-23-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carri

I wondered what the reasoning was behing putting the needle in first then attaching the syringe! I knew it worked, because I have seen it, but I didn't know why...

Main reason it to make sure you dont have a blood vessel. That is why you pull the syringe back when sticking needle attached to the syringe in, is to make sure you dont have a blood vessel.

And for twitching, it causes pain. That is why it is used. Thinking the horse will concentrate on the pain area and not worry about what else is going on.
Used right or not, pain is caused, period.

We also do a light thumping to the area, but on horses that are not scared of the needle.

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10-22-2007, 08:29 PM
RealFolkBlue Yearling Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: B.G OH Posts: 758	Getting Horse over Shots Is it possible to desensitize a horse to injections. Are there any tips to making injections easier? My boy Diego turns in Diablo when it's vaccination time. Once you poke him with that needle, he will either rear, strike, bolt, or a combination of the two. He usually does it in a spilt second before we can even squirt the vaccination in him. He has taken out a couple of people when it was vaccination time. I've heard that just poke the horse with a toothpick for a while and he will get use to picking sensation. Tried it and it just pissed him off. Twitching him does not work and having a stud chain does not help at all. It actually makes it worse. I was thinking that maybe put liniment in the injection area so that it is sorta numb before we poke him. As anyone tried that? Has anyone had any luck with those quieting supplements that they sell in the horse catalogs? Thanks in advance

10-22-2007, 08:47 PM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Out with the Herd! Posts: 8,233	My big gelding is the same way. Never had an issue with anything, but at 4 yrs. old he decided he was big enough and strong enough to not get poked. Just curious as to how and with what you are twitching with, as this works long enough for him to get coggins and shots. He could be also sensing you getting a little stressed anticipating the fight he is gonna put up. They are smart little boogers. I do not think the calming suppliments are gonna help, as if it is the only time he gets antsy wouldn't make much sense as well. Have you talked with the vet about a feed through sedative about an hour before he is to have his shots. I had one in my boarding barn that was this way, the only way you could do it was to feed him w/sedative mixed in about an hour before. Haven't ever heard of using liniment, still wouldn't think it could mask the needle and burn of the medicine. Hope you can find an answer, as it is dangerous for you both. __________________ "Year's end is neither an end nor a beginning but a going on, with all the wisdom that experience can instill in us". ~Hal Borland

10-22-2007, 08:58 PM
Carri Bombproof Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia Posts: 10,608	The vet could apply lidocaine topically before giving the injection, and that would help, but if he is already anticipating it and getting upset because he knows it is coming, that would not really help. __________________

10-22-2007, 09:02 PM
snickers Bombproof Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Twilight Zone Posts: 8,988	Pinching the area where the shot goes helps them get use to the sting of the needle. Pinch and hold for a few seconds and release. Do this daily a few times a day until he stands for it. Works. We do it to the WILD mustangs and they take the shots like a pro. Just did it to one that needed a coggins and had no trouble. __________________ " You cant fix stupid " Ron White Life is to short to argue with ignorant people.

10-22-2007, 09:34 PM
RealFolkBlue Yearling Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: B.G OH Posts: 758	Thanks for that tip snickers. That sounds like a affective way to desensitize him to needles. He might tolerate that better then just being poked by toothpicks. I will start doing that and hopefully it will ease his dislike for needles. He knows something is going on when either Marilyn or the vet comes into his stall. Once they enter, he runs into the paddock of his stall. He always stares at them with the look on his face of "you are going to do something to me that I don't like". You cant sneak shots with this one, we tried. Last vaccinations we used the twitch. It was one of those aluminum one hand twitches. As soon as it was tight on his muzzle. He gave a slight rear, and a strike out in the air. After that he was still a moving target. Hopefully he can get over the dislike for needles in a matter of time.

10-22-2007, 09:52 PM
snickers Bombproof Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Twilight Zone Posts: 8,988	He has had a bad experience with them and needs to feel comfortable again. Twitching will only make matters worse. Pain for pain. If I was in pain, I wouldnt stand still either. I dont use twitches or stud chains. I have a different approach, get their trust first. Once they know they can trust you not to put them in danger, they will let you do just about anything. Take your time and see how affective it is. If you know how to give shots, then I suggest once he lets you pinch him without retreat, you give him his shots and not in the stall area where he has had them before. Give him his shots in different areas of the barn, paddock, yard, etc., etc., then he wont know whats happening. __________________ " You cant fix stupid " Ron White Life is to short to argue with ignorant people.

10-22-2007, 11:01 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,688	Although I agree with the desensitizing ideas, I am not so sure about the lidocaine as I doubt it would go deep enough. For now, I would likely slip him some Powder or liquid Ace before the vet visit so he is "relaxed" when the vet comes. We had to do that with Ziggy. Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB CHT Horse Stories!

10-23-2007, 06:34 AM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Out with the Herd! Posts: 8,233	Sorry guys, but I am gonna have to agree, to disagree. As I too greatly believe in desensitation, and changing routine etc., it does not always work. I also agree that horses can associate it with a bad experience, but again not always the case. Just like in people there is always that one thing that you will not tolerate or for some reason cannot tolerate. I believe my gelding falls into this category. He has had no bad experience, not sick alot and in need of long term care,etc. I have done major desensitizing work with him throughout his life, and there is no question about trust. He always knows what is coming, and he does not like it. I do not agree that done right twitching can be a bad thing. If done wrong or in excess yes, but there is no need for medication in his situation as it takes about 1 minute with the twitch to get the job done. Some things just need to be done, you find what works. The main point here is that humans and horses are both safe, and without trauma mentally and pyhsically. __________________ "Year's end is neither an end nor a beginning but a going on, with all the wisdom that experience can instill in us". ~Hal Borland

10-23-2007, 06:49 AM
Carri Bombproof Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia Posts: 10,608	Unless it is a shot that stings, which vaccinations do not, the only pain is generally the entry of the needle, in which case, lidocaine is very effective. Just like when you go into the hospital, if you have a very low tolerance of pain, they can rub lidocaine on your skin to lessen the trauma of getting an IV. __________________

10-23-2007, 07:10 AM
David Long Yearling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,069	The only thing that I have done THAT WORKED was to go as often as possible and act like I was giving shots. I would have someone hold the head then I would cover the near eye with my hand and either pinch or flip the horse in the area where I would give the shot. Also when I went to give the actual shot I didn't put the needle all the way in. If you push the needle all the way in, the horse can feel it bottom out because the syringe tube hits the skin. I had a horse that would take shots (after a while of desensitizing) as long as the needle didn't bottom out. __________________ "If you see your stirrups slap together above the horn, you're probably bucked off". Dave Stamey.

10-23-2007, 07:20 AM
Carri Bombproof Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia Posts: 10,608	For some reason, too, it seems like it hurts less for them if you smack or punch the area a few times, then insert the needle without the syringe attached, then put the syringe on and give the shot. I really don't know why this works, but it really seems to. The vet I work for just did some horses at the barn that way, and it really worked, they did not react at all. __________________

10-23-2007, 07:25 AM
soccer mom Yearling Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Huber Heights OH Posts: 549	could you learn to give the shots yourself? My Morab gelding went into a panic as soon as the vet stepped foot in the barn. The BO (who also fed daily) could walk in and give him anything (don't mess with the food source). Also, try a differnt location than his stall. Some horses figure that is their space and do not appreciate any invasions. __________________

10-23-2007, 08:02 AM
dcs2004 Weanling Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Alabama Posts: 391	We just went through this! We were warned that Pali is bad with shots, so training began. Can you say roundpen? I got some syringes without needles and let her sniff, chew, play with them until she was used to seeing them around. Then we started the real fun. I would take her in the roundpen and simulate the shot process, needleless of course. I did the skin pinch and would push the syringe against her skin. If she flipped out I didn't fight her, we worked until she chilled out and we tried again. We did this once a day for a week, and when the vet came out Friday she was a champ! She stood there, with the lead draped over her neck, head low, and didn't move an inch. Hubby thought she was asleep!

10-23-2007, 08:13 AM
Mule Fool Started Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,283	Just wanted to say something about twitching. The purpose isn't to cause pain, it's more of a distraction and it also releases endorphins in the horses blood stream which is a GOOD thing. If you're doing it hard enough to cause pain you're not doing it right. The only problem with using the pounding with the fist first on a horse that hates shots is that the next time you pound once you probably won't get a second one in. Sometimes grabbing a fold of skin on the neck and pinching REALLY hard will help. The pinching kind of numbs the area. I liked dcs2004 idea. Anytime you can get a horse to make the DECISION to do the right thing, it's a good thing!

10-23-2007, 08:45 AM
Carri Bombproof Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia Posts: 10,608	I wondered what the reasoning was behing putting the needle in first then attaching the syringe! I knew it worked, because I have seen it, but I didn't know why... __________________

10-23-2007, 08:51 AM
Pasogirl Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: outside Memphis TN Posts: 286	I have the exact same problem with one of mine. And I agree that if used properly the twitch does not cause pain, it releases endorphins and can relax them. It worked on ours only when we took her to the vet rather than having the vet come to us. Can't say that will work again cause she's smart but maybe the change of scenery would keep her guessing. We've given ace orally and it took the edge off until she saw the vet then it was like we'd never given any. All that to say, no solutions here sorry, but I can feel your pain!!!