Extra's training journal

[cutter123]

I see all these folks doing the training journal thing and it seems like a fun way to gage progress!

Anyway, it is getting to be colt starting season around here.

My friend Sherry is a reining horse trainer. She has a stallion, a son of Gallo De Cielo, and his first foal crop are long yearlings, coming two year olds.

Well I got the very first one! She wanted him to go to someone who would do something with him, cowhorse. He is out of her good reining mare, a daughter of Docs Remedy.

Anyway, I picked him up this week.

He hasn't had much done with him. Like us, Sherry raises her babies out in pasture and they have very limited handling. Actually, she is ahead of us, because "Extra" is already halter broke and broke to lead (if you can catch him that is ha ha ha).

(I named him Extra at the suggestion of my friend Rose. It fits him! Also because he is an Extra. I have another long yearling, a Stylish baby. Some of you have seen pictures of me riding Stylish. My Stylish baby is a filly out of a daughter of Smokin 45/ Doc Tom Tucker. The mare was my first cutting horse).

I will talk about her, as well, when she comes over here. She is in pasture right now.

When I went to Sherry's to pick up Extra, he was in a 100x100 lot with another Rooster yearling. (aside: "Rooster" is the commonly used nickname for the stallion "Gallo De Cielo," who stands at the Polo Ranch in Texas. Extra's daddy is a horse called "Rooster D Flite")

Sherry said he is a wild one and once went through a fence to get away from someone putting too much pressure on him, so we were to be careful when attempting to catch him.

At the pasture where our yearlings are, it is set up that we can haze the horses into a catch pen and then back up the trailer to the pen and haze the horses in, which is usually what we do. In this case, however, it wasn't set up that way and we needed to be able to catch Extra in the pasture and lead him into the trailer.

Sherry and I had the same idea without speaking. Ha ha on the same psychic wavelength I guess. We stood in the center of the pen and without a whole bunch of effort got the two colts free lunging around us. It was good as I got to see my new colt's movement and reactions. He is bigger than the other colt, a bay with no white except one spot on the tip of his nose. He is leaner looking than our Stylish babies, but he has good bone structure and will fill out nicely, I think. He has a nice wide flat forehead, and his eyes are small, but bright and intelligent looking. He is wild and scared but not stupid.

After a bit, the horses were calming down and thinking about stopping and facing us. Sherry's barn manager, Panziano, came in and we handed him the halter. We had the colts in the corner and Panziano managed to approach Extra softly and slowly and get the halter and lead rope on him. He handed Extra to Sherry but he bolted away with the other horse. So we had to repeat the process and catch the other yearling as well. When they were both caught we walked them both to stalls, and backed up our trailer to the aisleway of the barn.

We have a seven horse Hart trailer with rear tack compartment and mangers. We closed the first four spaces and left the last three open with the dividers hooked together to give him some room. There was no real problem getting him in, and we left him loose in there for the hour drive home.

Again, I noted that while he is afraid and a bit unsure, he is not stupid. He looks to his handler to figure out what is going on and seems to want to seek comfort and security. These were all real good signs and I like him so far!

As soon as I get him a bit more gentle and settled in, I will make an appointment with Dr Mike for Extra's "change of life" operation, and I will have a little gelding

[HeatherSarah3]

WOW! cutter that sounds great! I love reading training journals, dont leave anything out! Hey look another Cali girl! I dont feel all alone anymore

[cutter123]

Extra Update:

(LOL)

Extra has settled in nicely. I put him in the back barn, which is also the hay barn, next to a weanling Stylish baby. The weanling will go back to the pasture soon, but my friend Stephanie is bringing over a yearling who can go next to him. We will have the other long yearlings over here soon as well.

Extra does not seem to be an agressive or mean horse. He is nice to "Baby Stylish" and has a good attitude in his stall. And man can he eat! I have been pouring the hay to him. Like I said, he is leaner than I am used to. I also wormed him as I saw some bot flies flying around at Sherry's. This is not Sherry's fault. The place she trains out of is a boarding stable as well and I am sure it is hard to control bots at a place where there might be boarders who do not have an agressive worming schedule. We do not have bots at our place and I want to keep it that way!

When I water him, I go in and rub on him and get to know him a bit. He is still leery and will move to the back of his pen (a 12 x 20 run) but will allow me to approach him slowly and rub on him. He seems to enjoy this and watches me the whole time I am in the hay barn.

Yesterday, Denny, our farrier came out and I got Extra trimmed. I held him right outside his stall, on level flat ground, next to the hay stack. Again, Extra was leery, with wide, scared eyes and tense muscles. Denny is very good, though. He is used to trimming babies and is very patient and good natured. I haven't ever seen him get impatient with a baby. And, lol, our babies out in the pasture are much more wild than Extra!

A lot of the time, in the pasture, we haze them into a pen and then Don will rope one at a time. It is really a thing to watch, how he "dances" with the baby horse, pressure and release on the rope, teaching them to give to the pressure and stand still and accept being handled. I have watched it many times now over the last five and a half years and I always love watching it.

I have learned from Don that working with young horses is all about timing, tempo, and presence of mind. He has the right attitude, of firm kindness, a presence that sets young horses at ease and allows them to understand it is best to stand still. I have learned that this sort of handling early, getting the point across, without scaring a horse, sets everything up for future progress. When we bring them in as two year olds to start, they have already learned the most important lesson, to yield, to pay attention, to relax in our presence, and it makes everything easier.

Well Extra wasn't too bad, either. Denny approached him with the same presence I have seen him use on our babies time and time again. Firm kindness, patience, and an expectation of "lets get this done without a fight." It seems like the horses pick this up, the confidence of the handler, the focus.

Extra was a bit more difficult about his hind feet. Denny said it looked like he had been trimmed recently in the front but not the back so I guess this wasn't the first time he was apprehensive about his hind end. Again, Denny used his same technique of using patience and persistence for getting the point across without a bunch of game playing and without scaring him.

We sidled him up against the hay stack and I held him while Denny picked up his hind leg. Extra's eyes got big and for a second I remembered what Sherry had said about him running through a fence to get away one time. I wondered if he might try to jump over me as that was his only escape route. I took a breath and thought about projecting the same presence as Denny, the same presence I have learned to have from Don, my trainer. It worked. Extra held himself tense for a few moments and then a palpable change happened. He softened, his head came down, his whole body relaxed, and his eyes went from scared to calm and accepting. He licked and chewed, and I praised him for being such a good boy. This all took about 3 or 4 minutes.

Denny also remarked what I had already thought previously, that he was not a stupid horse, but a very willing one, albeit scared.

For me, I dont' mind a scared, spooky, stingy horse, as long as they pay attention and seem to be willing to learn. This seems to be a good mix for a cowhorse. I do hope he is a bit hot and stingy as this will serve him later in his career working cattle.

Anyway, I took these pictures off my cell phone. I will try to get some better pictures with my camera later.

Extra in the trailer on the way home:


Extra in the front yard, checking out his new digs:



Extra in his new stall. His head really isnt' that big; it is a bad picture:



Extra meets Denny for a trim:

[RollingThunder]

Sounds like a blast Jessie! Love reading about colts, and starting. Sounds to me like Extra will be a sharp pencil under your and Don's tutelage. Can't wait to hear how he progresses through the ranks.

Keep 'em comin' buddy!

[RiceKrispyCowgirl]

Congratulations on your new horse! Once the testosterone poisoning is gone, I'm sure he'll be much better!

[Kathy G.]

I bet he's going to turn out to be wonderful!

[gbarmranch]

I agree - and a training journal is a great idea. I love to see how all these critters progress, and steal - er, borrow - some good ideas from everyone to try on our own..

He sure is a pretty boy.. and smart too..

[cutter123]

Thanks everyone!
Well over the weekend I was helping my trainer get his taxes together, accounting, bookkeeping, etc, so not a lot of time for riding, but I did get to go pet on Extra every day while feeding/watering.

At first he will always move away to the corner of his pen, but will allow me to approach and then will stand for me to rub him. He is getting more curious now though, and more attentive. If I do approach retreat, he will turn his head towards me and then follow me to the front of his pen and allow me to touch him.

ANyway, today I have the place to myself and after I ride all the broke horses I will get to spend some time with Extra in the round pen.

I'll have an update later!

[RollingThunder]

LOL. Love it when they hook onto you like that, don't you? That's the first thing I do with a new or strange horse. Establishes a great deal there. The fun part is when they get so hooked onto you that when you move back, they come forward, and when you move forward they come back, and it's really cool when they step at the exact same time you do. It's like dancing.

Can't wait to hear more!

BTW -- how'd the game come out?

[Goldun Acres]

Oh for fun!

First I gotta ask..did your farrier hear you take a picture of his booty? My camera phone makes the loudest noise when I take pics..it's never a secret!

Anyways, Extra is a cutie! He sounds like a real smarty! Hope he makes a nice cutter for you!

[RollingThunder]

LOL. Goldun ... ya oughta ask her about a "famous" reiner and a text she sent me.

The funny part is, I personally think this guy is an ... but to each their own.

Just kidding, cutter. We know you're hung up on JS and not reiners.

BTW -- love the JW quote in your sig.

[Goldun Acres]

Story time cutter! I want to know about the "famous"(as RT puts it) reiner!

Thanks RT, it's a great quote!

[cutter123]

Ohmygosh you suck RT! LOL you are going to get me in trouble!
I wouldn't call him a "reiner" per se...
Goldun Acres, I saw a famous rider in Reno and was laughing because he has a "fat butt." (never seen him off a horse before). I made the mistake of texting my opinion to Rolling Thunder on the size of the famous person's posterior. LOL now he's going to get me in trouble ha ha.

anyway, the game was good. NY won of course, by A LOT. Enough that they took Eli out and put the baby QB in late in the 4th qtr.
And my man #80 saved a defensive TD after an interception by flinging himself across the field and grabbing the running CB's ankles. They gave him a 15 yard penalty for it too! Not fair! Sigh, it was nice seeing him in HD on the big huge screen

K well I have to go back out to work some more, we hauled to practice cattle today and now I have to do all kinds of chores and ride the horses we didn't take with us. I'll be back in later for an update on Extra

[RollingThunder]

The entertaining part was that about an hour and a half later was when I realized cutter was checking out his butt. So of course I texted her back that "hey, i just realized this. You were checking out Joe Rider's butt."

Which led her to wax eloquent on the fact that all GOOD trainers have flat butts.

To which I responded that if that were true, she would have a huge career ahead of her, and could I get an autographed copy of her DVD when she is rich and famous and has her own custom training stick, and I'm still just a lowly backyardy-type horseman.

And for the record, cutter, you may think you have a flat fanny, but you look just fine on a horse. And isn't that what matters to us guys anyway?

[RollingThunder]

Now back to the fun already in progress -- HOW'S EXTRA DOING??? LOL

[cutter123]

(okay now that I'm completely mortified...)
back to Extra:

The chores went well. I was still high from the practice earlier in the day. We went to the Brooks Ranch, where Lee has practices four or five times a year. I always love going there because it is the best ground and the best cattle. It is a bit expensive for my budget and most times I don't get to ride, I just help my trainer get his horses ready. But the last few times, he has let me ride as well. This is a huge deal, because mostly non pros dont' ride there, it is just trainers.

Well I had the most awesomest ride ever on Hal. I had him warmed up just right and my timing was (for once) perfect. I got four good cows trapped right in the center. It was just one of those days where everything works. My body was loose, my timing was on, I was confident and focused, Hal was confident and focused and loped down enough to not get scattered...

I just hope we can do that well at the two day show this weekend...

Anyway after I did some other chores at home I went and got Extra.

He is already halter broke, which I mentioned before, so it made it a bit different than if he wasn't. Usually when our long yearlings coming two year olds come over and they are not halter broke, we have them in pens in the back barn, and I will haze them down the alleyway to the round pen. The alleyway is about 12 feet wide and 100 yards long or so, flanked on one side by the buffalo pen and on the other side by the middle barn. The round pen is on the same side as the buffalo pen right past it, and it adjoins the indoor arena. There is a gate to the alleyway, and also a gate to the arena. This works good when starting colts, because after a ride or two in the round pen, the gate to the arena can be opened up directly and we go right in.

It had rained a few times last week and the round pen was wet but not too bad. Extra let me catch him fairly easily. I have to be pretty "soft" around him as he is definitely a scardey cat. Any sudden or ill timed movement tends to make him snort, spin around and head the other direction. This is fine with me. I personally like a little hotter, snortier horse for what I do. When they get too doggy gentle they usually aren't going to have that extra fire it takes to be a good cutting horse. My aim in getting one like this broke is not to take that snort out of him and make him doggy gentle; it is to take the snort and quickness and channel it properly to my advantage so it will be useful in his later career.

Another note on that...Extra is my project. I am a non pro, not a trainer. I have another yearling filly that my trainer is going to train to be my new cutting show horse. I bought Extra because I like having a project too and it helps me learn. I have had several horses like that and I train them on cattle, etc, and then sell them, usually. They make good two handed cutters or all around cow horses, but I am certainly not under any pretenses about my ability to train a winning cutting horse by myself. I am not that far along in my learning. However, my trainer has taught me how to put a really good foundation on a horse and get them moving correctly. He has taught me how to introduce them to cattle. This foundation, I put it on them, and it can be built on. My last project horse, Whit Pony, I sold him to a gal who rides with a well respected cutting horse trainer in Lockeford. She is currently leading (by a wide margin) the year end standings for the two handed cutting class at some local clubs. Whit is ready to be shown as a real cutter in a bridle with the riders hand down. I'm sure her trainer is able to get Whit stepped up to where he needs to be to be a "real" cutting horse, and that Whit's foundation has served him well.

This is what will happen with Extra, most likely. I will train him as if he were going to be a cutting horse or cowhorse (as close an approximation of this that my abilities at this time allow). I will get to turn back on him, work the mechanical cow, and work buffalo and cattle, although not as much as if he were in training with my trainer. He will (hopefully) turn into a nice, versatile gelding with a good handle on him. I expect he will be able to work a cow, out of a herd or rate down a fence, switch leads, stop correctly on his hip, spin, rollback, etc. He will stay between a rider's legs, give to the bit, and do balanced transitions. These are my goals for him.

As I learn more on my journey to good horsemanship, my "project" horses have progressively gotten better and better. The funny thing is how much easier they are to train every year. Kind of like Pat Parelli says: "the more I learn, the smarter my horse gets!"

What my trainer has taught me is that horsemanship is "Feel, Timing, and Balance." All these things come into play, from the ground up. I have learned that the first few interactions with a young horse can really set the tone for how things go later on down the line. Points can be gotten across early on, without scaring the horse, that serve as a foundation for every other thing that horse learns.

My friend Robert, a cowhorse trainer, once told me that he thinks that when a horse is under stress, it will revert back to what it knew as a two year old (or when it was started). I dont' know if this is entirely true, but I definitly give the idea credence. I think a solid foundation is the most important part to any horse. It doesn't take a whole lot more time to do things this way. It just takes some smarts.

Anyway, I can't change the fact that I didn't raise Extra and put his first foundation on him. It's already done. I do trust my friend Sherry. She is a winning reining trainer and has done this for many more years than me.

Sherry told me that Extra tends to try to leave town when put under pressure, and has even gone through fences to escape the pressure. Our round pen is made out of drill pipe panels. While he couldn't get through these (unless he can jump five and a half feet), they definitely could hurt him if he got tangled up in them. For this reason, I put him on a lunge line to work with him.

Usually, I have two or three or even four un-halter broke long yearlings in the roundpen at once and I can free lunge them as a group. This allows me to read each one and see what needs to be done next. I like having a group in there because they can take comfort from each other and no one gets too scared. Once in a while there will be one that is really tough and I will haze the others out one by one after catching them and putting halters on them, and I will have one in there by himself.

Since Extra needed to be on a line, and none of our other long yearlings are here at the ranch yet, he was alone in the round pen. He has grown up differently than ours, anyway, and is beyond needing the security of his herd. It is time to make myself his herd.

I lunged him on the line as if I were free lunging him. At first, I wanted to have slack in the line unless he tried to climb through then panels. The line was only an "emergency brake" of sorts to save his legs. My first goal was to see where his mind was and get him focused in on me, and then teach him how to move away from my pressure and then come to me.

Anyway...I have written a novel ha ha ha and now it is time for me to work. I will finish this segment later this afternoon. Sorry about all the "asides" in my story. I guess I get on my soapbox and start preaching, but to me all this stuff is important and explains why I do things the way I do.

[RollingThunder]

Excellent post Jessie. Very well written. If it's a novel likes this (and not the kinda crap I write when I write novels), then don't apologize. Keep them coming.

You brought up two interesting points I wanted to ask a question/comment on. When you recognize that you aren't a big finisher (the comments on Whit Pony), you sorta leave out the fact that it sounds like Whit had an excellent handle and foundation to build on, put there by you. When you go to practices like the one you mentioned, or perhaps the smaller ones you've talked about in the past, do you take your finished horses, or do you take your horses like Whit Pony who are coming up the ranks. Or both? What are your approaches with each in these regards? Obviously you expect different results because of where they are both at in their training, but do you approach them differently, or just try to give both horses something to "get with" when you're working the cows?

Would you ever consider using a horse that was not headed for the big time and training that horse more for ranch work? It seems like your goals are all the same, but that in some instances, a ranch horse might need to be a little more doggy broke because of the need to move cattle with less stress. Thoughts?

The other part is the comment your friend Robert made about a colt reverting to what he learned in his formative years when he gets real overexposed. I agree and disagree with this. I think there is a part in there that the horse looks for leadership (even for a split second - miss it and it's gone kinda thing) before going over to the instinct and falling into "default mode." It takes a good horseman to sense that he's slipping in the first place and provide the proper level of guidance there to bring him back. I've been really lucky to work with some total squirrels (you remember the story of Cowboy I told you, right?). I find if you just listen for that quick question, no matter WHAT they learned at two (and Extra was probably set up to win far more than the po-dunk ponys I've got ever were), you can reel them back into you. Now, the question, beyond THAT, if you were to MISS that, what do you like to use to bring them back to you?

Just a thought, but I'd bet your feel, timing and balance are all good enough to not overexpose Extra in that round pen. I don't think you need that line.

However, I think it's aces that you took the "Extra" precaution and used it. That would be an example of one of the reasons I admire you as a horsewoman, buddy. You're always putting things where it's easiest for the horse to understand and you really put effort into finding that place for the horse and setting him up to win.

You know how people always talk about how important it is to put a good foundation on a horse when they start that horse on whatever discipline it is that they start them on?

Well, I think Don put a real good foundation on YOU when he started YOU on horses. And I know Don didn;t introduce you to horses, but you can tell in how you talk about him that he has been a super-huge influence on you. And heck, any of us who read your stuff or watch your Youtube vids, can have that same "second hand gold." It's just great to see someone really work hard to set a horse up to win. Not breaking them, but channeling them. It's real hard for your average horseman (like me) to get that snort BACK INTO a horse, get them standing their ground and being brave again. The fact that I have seen so many horses like that who were just really torn down in their confidence, well, it'll make you cry sometimes. And I mean that seriously, it personally hurts me to see a horse so on the instinct from some real bad training choices early on.

But the fact that there are people out there (like you and Don for example) who value that fire, and look for a way to harness it, and develop it enough for the horse to use that energy in a constructive manner is a real breath of fresh air. It's really awesome to see that horse turn loose to a rider and just allow himself to be directed because of the trust there. And while I won't go so far as to say you're the best in the world, I have no doubt that if you keep going at the rate you are going, every one of your horses are going to look at you and give their vote for you being the best they've ever been ridden by.

Can't wait to hear more! Hope ya have an awesome day! Tell Don we all said hello!

[cutter123]

Hey there! Thanks!

I'll try to answer your questions, and then go on with the story...

(quote: You brought up two interesting points I wanted to ask a question/comment on. When you recognize that you aren't a big finisher (the comments on Whit Pony), you sorta leave out the fact that it sounds like Whit had an excellent handle and foundation to build on, put there by you. When you go to practices like the one you mentioned, or perhaps the smaller ones you've talked about in the past, do you take your finished horses, or do you take your horses like Whit Pony who are coming up the ranks. Or both? What are your approaches with each in these regards?")

My answer:
Most of the time, since horses like Whit pony, and now Extra, are my project horses, they do not get to go to practices, unless I take them there as a turnback horse. This is simply a logistics issue. We have a seven horse trailer and we need to fill it with paying customers, not my project horses. I simply do not have the extra cash to haul my project horses to cattle all the time. I suppose if I had a huge supply of cattle, I could finish one up, maybe not as good as Matt Gaines or something ha ha ha but I could make a show horse I think, with Don's help. My horses just don't get enough consistent exposure to cattle, usually. I did end up showing Gem Pony for two years with my hand down after having her as a two handed project. I won five buckles and about $2600 on her, and she is now winning for her new owner. Don helped me A LOT, however, with the finer points, getting her sharp, etc. That final step that is the (HUGE) difference between a low level club cutting horse and a real deal NCHA level cutting horse is the timing and experience and feel that Don has, to take them to that next level, from good to great.

(here is a picture of Gem Pony as a baby at a two handed show:



And the next year when I got brave enough to put my hand down...



And a few months before I sold her...at an NCHA show winning a check:




When we go practice, we take whatever horses need to be taken. Like Wednesday, Don took his two futurity horses, Jane and Champ, and he took Pablo and Lizzie, who he is showing this weekend at the weekend show, and I took Hal, who I'm showing this weekend. (quick update: I won my class today. I was currently in third in the year end standings. With the check from today I am now only $45 out of first place. Don took third on Pablo in his class and maintained his lead for the year end. And Whit Pony's new owner won her class as well, so did Gem Pony's new owner).


(quote: " Obviously you expect different results because of where they are both at in their training, but do you approach them differently, or just try to give both horses something to "get with" when you're working the cows?")

My answer: The goal at practices away from home, no matter the level of the horse, is the same: a good positive learning experience for the horse. The difference just comes in knowing and feeling what that horse needs at that time, and setting up the situation accordingly. There are lots of different ways to work cattle. Some horses need lots of warmup, some need hardly any, etc. Mostly that is a feel thing. My goal with Hal, for example, at the practice, was to get him thinking about staying on his hip and backing up over his hocks instead of getting excited and diving at cattle. He is an excitable horse with a BIG motor, so keeping him slowed down and correct is key with him. With a different horse, though, like my "other" project horse, Brownie, who isn't quite as hot and cowy as Hal, my approach would be different. For her, I would keep stepping her towards a cow and then breaking fast with it, letting her face up and look, to get excited about the game.

(Quote: "Would you ever consider using a horse that was not headed for the big time and training that horse more for ranch work? It seems like your goals are all the same, but that in some instances, a ranch horse might need to be a little more doggy broke because of the need to move cattle with less stress. Thoughts?")

My answer:
Yes, I guess I didn't explain myself that well, I think. My project horses do get a lot of different exposure. For example, here is Whit Pony as a three year old a few months after I started him, gathering before a branding.



And here is Whit at the first practice I ever took him to:



Let's see if I can rephrase what I meant...

A good all around cow horse is definitely broke. They stay between a rider's legs, can have a rope thrown off them (I can't rope that well though so don't do that much), can go outside, can walk flat footed through cattle, etc. What I meant about too doggy gentle is I see a lot of people get their horses what I would call, almost, overbroke. They spend so much time sacking them out and lunging to death and doing that one rein stop thing until they take ALL the forward motion and reaction out of their horse. I've ridden a few like this and while they are super gentle and probably wouldn't react if a bomb went off under them, I find that they are also slow to react to a rider's leg, to a cue, to a cow, etc. And when asked for a little more than a "doggy" response, they tend to sull, never having been asked to step up before. When I start a colt, I don't want it jumping out of it's skin scared, but I also dont' want to sack all the reaction out of them. Because cows don't wait around for you to tap tap taptap TAP TAPTAP argue nag until your horse finally decides to heed your cue. This does not mean a horse has to be crazy or scared. A good cow horse will walk completely flat footed into a herd, or the arena, and then turn on the turbo when needed, and then put it back into slow gear when needed. To me, that is broke. Pat Parelli had a good example once like that, saying he wanted his horse like a good muscle car. With a big engine and a lot of power, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to race everywhere. He says you can go up to the stop light, and idle there, but it is still apparent by the idle that you have a lot of power under the hood.

On the other hand, a horse like Hal, for example, is not a horse that is really "doggy broke." My project horses are probably way more broke than him or other show horses. Hal is spooky and prone to jumping sideways unexpectedly. It's just part of his Emo personality. A lot of the really super cutting horses I have been around are quirky that way.

(quote: "The other part is the comment your friend Robert made about a colt reverting to what he learned in his formative years when he gets real overexposed. I agree and disagree with this. I think there is a part in there that the horse looks for leadership (even for a split second - miss it and it's gone kinda thing) before going over to the instinct and falling into "default mode." It takes a good horseman to sense that he's slipping in the first place and provide the proper level of guidance there to bring him back. I've been really lucky to work with some total squirrels (you remember the story of Cowboy I told you, right?). I find if you just listen for that quick question, no matter WHAT they learned at two (and Extra was probably set up to win far more than the po-dunk ponys I've got ever were), you can reel them back into you. Now, the question, beyond THAT, if you were to MISS that, what do you like to use to bring them back to you?")

My answer:
Well it's mostly what you said, you just have to keep it in their comfort level, and try to change the ingrained habits of a horse that has some holes in the foundation. For example, we did have this horse, that would rear off cattle on the end and try to walk on her hind legs out of the arena when she got long on one side. She had had way too much pressure put on her by her previous trainer. He got her scared on the ends. He would run her past cattle, put her in a precarious position, and then punish her severely for failing to come back (despite him being in her way, blocking her from feeling able to come back). She opted for the "I"m outta here!" response.
My trainer spent a year rehabbing her. He first taught her how to move her ribs away from a cow, put her nose to the cow, and back up and look at the cow. Every time she got long, she would get scared, he would just back up and look at the cow. Easy. Simple. No big deal. Over and over and over until she could do it in her sleep. Basically trying to re-wire that initial response that she would have, of getting long on a cow and going, oh no oh no oh no I'm going to get in trouble, I can't handle, it, I'm outta here...to "I can do this, all I have to do is back up and look!" It takes real good timing.

Then one day we were at a show, and he was showing her, winning the cutting, and the other trainer was there. He yelled over the fence to his daughter to bring him some splint boots. The horse HEARD HIS VOICE and instantly reared up and started walking on her hind legs out of the arena. Don was like, "this isn't my horse!!!!" Well for months afterward she was a basket case and all we could do is just go back to the basics. Back up and look, back up and look.

(quote: "Just a thought, but I'd bet your feel, timing and balance are all good enough to not overexpose Extra in that round pen. I don't think you need that line.

However, I think it's aces that you took the "Extra" precaution and used it. That would be an example of one of the reasons I admire you as a horsewoman, buddy. You're always putting things where it's easiest for the horse to understand and you really put effort into finding that place for the horse and setting him up to win.")

My answer:
Thanks again, buddy for the compliment!
That is why I had the line. Not because I anticipated it to be necessary, but I knew that it might have been. It turns out that I did use it.
Back to the story...Extra has a lot of go. He had a lot of forward motion as soon as I got him in the round pen, he wanted to go. Which is fine. I know a lot of people want their horses to walk and be slow right off the bat, and spend a lot of time stopping them, but to me, a horse isn't really broke unless you teach it right away to have Free Forward Motion...meaning go forward...RELAXED. Forward as in loping. Now he is a young horse and has spent most of his life in a pen, so I didn't want to put more stress on his joints than necessary. Our round pen is a 50 footer. I would prefer it to be a 60 footer. So anyway I'm not of the run them until their tongue is hanging out and they are so tired they will "join up" with you, but also I do want a good relaxed free forward motion. A horse is only as broke as how much pressure you can put on it. While I don't want to go overboard on a baby horse, I also do not want to get in the habit of tip toeing around them and not asking for enough for them to feel like they are not having to give me anything.

Anyway, Extra did try to go over the fence. This is where the timing on the line comes in to play. Mostly, to get this out of the way quickly is a matter of watching your horse. If you get good at watching a horse, you will start to notice that there is always a "pre" signal. Like when you are on the road and there is a stop sign coming up, there is always a "stop ahead" sign first. This is so you are prepared...you don't just have to all of a sudden slam on your brakes to avoid skidding through the intersection. You see the "stop ahead" sign, you take your foot off the gas and put it gently on the brake and by the time you get to the stop sign, you are stopped with no jerky slam. Well a horse is the same. Extra definitely gave me the "I"m going to try and go through the fence right here" sign. Mostly, dealing with this is a matter of getting your observation skills up to par and then being able to react quickly enough, in a smooth and effective manner, to change their mind about what they are going to do, hopefully before they do it. Just as you would not wait before you ran off the road into the ditch before going "oh no! I ran off the road into the ditch! Now what?" Well it would be better to do what you have to do to stay on the road in the first place

So when I saw him giving me his "I"m going to try to go through the fence right here" sign, I instantly took the slack out of the line and pulled his head around towards me, at the same time driving him forward. Here is another important thing... some people when their horse goes into a disobedience, they will pull them towards them and Stop the forward motion. I do not necessarily think this is always a good answer. I will instead let the horse know he needs to stay focused on what we are doing, in this case, going forward. A lot also of making this work on the lunge line is simply getting handy with the line. When I first started starting colts, I was not handy with the line and would often get tangled up, or would not be quick enough to be effective with my aids. The horse would flip around and get tangled in the line, etc. Now, with experience and practice, I am better at it. All it takes is persistent practice

Anyway, Extra wasn't hard to convince. He only tried it three times and then gave it up, lowered his head, licked and chewed and relaxed. I kept the lunging session short. Then I brought him into the center and rubbed him all over. He still is wary about me getting behind his barrel, but I just kept at it for a while. I didn't have a whole lot of time. When he was cool, and relaxed, I put him away.

Anyway, I'm glad you asked all these questions. buddy. I don't think this will be very fun if I am just preaching. I hope more people ask me questions..this is not an exclusive post. I would love it if people asked me some questions, because it helps me conceptualize what I am doing, as well as hopefully inspiring some others to seek out more knowledge.

[RollingThunder]

Thanks for all the cow-horse responses. I shared with you in the past that I have friends who are getting a fair amount of cattle in, and so far as I don't run the meat off of them, they're gonna let me see what Rio thinks of the cows. So having some insights from people who work cows is awful handy.

OH! I forgot to tell you. Out on the golf course today, we ran into some cows. Yes, on that uber-nice course, we had a bull and two heifers play through.

Anyway, seeing as you were very wonderful about offering that cowhorse advice, can I offer some in an area I feel a little more comfortable about? LOL.

If you ever get the change, maybe you can try the Jeffery Method on him? It could quite likely speed up the desensitization process, and get him far more comfortable with you. I like to say that it gets all the "Farts and Burps" out of the way early. I'm sure you can find some great stuff on the whole process (it's pretty easy to do, believe it or not), or if you want, I can give you some insights on how I do it, and see if that could help you with Extra a bit.

I actually think the fact that you got him through his "over the fence" episode and stopped shortly thereafter will go a lot further, because it puts more of an exclamation point on that portion of the training.

Much coolness there.

[RollingThunder]

Hey Jessie ... you doing OK out there with those wildfires?