Jump Training - too much too soon??

IrishRed32 · 09-09-2007, 09:30 PM

I need help. My darling X-Ray and I had a lesson today and the trainer put down a ground pole for us to trot over. X-Ray decides that this is indeed a two-foot fence and leaps over it! Each subsequent time he would rush the pole and start almost cantering towards it. Finally he settled into a trot, but it was not relaxing or simple, he was so concerned with that pole.

Here is the back story: About a month ago, we thought it would be a fun idea to see if he would jump a nice 2' fence and he did with ease . I thought this was wonderful and then started jumping him over small 18" crossrails to help strengthen my seat and have been doing so for about the last three weeks. His jumping was never consistent; sometime I owuld have to kick him over the fence and other times he would rush it or his jump was way too big over the small rails.

After seeing him today with that ground pole, I realized that we never really worked into those crossrails, just made him go over them and I am wondering how to get him back down and start him right. Can I do that, or is the damage done? I so enjoy jumping and want it to be a pleasurable, nice experience, not one where I am constantly fighting to bring him back into hand.

JoAnne · 09-09-2007, 09:37 PM

I am not a jumping expert but don't think you did any damage. Imo your horse is just green. Usually, people don't put down just one pole because is confuses the horse. Typically, three groundpoles spaced out, or two, or four are used ( I forgot the correct spacing for trot stride, someone else please? ) Horses are usually trotted over the poles, not cantered till much later. Is your trainer experienced with hunter/jumpers? If not, find someone who is. There is also a book, "Gymnastic Jumping" by James Wofford, wit diagrams of spacing, ground poles used before crossrails etc. To train right you need to work systematically with spacing the rails and ground poles and slowly building up heights and combinations. Your horse sounds like he has talent and you have enthusiasm with proper guidance you guys should make a good team!

IrishRed32 · 09-09-2007, 10:41 PM

The reason we put down the one ground pole was because he was rushing the fences. We put it between two standards so it "looked" like a jump to try to teach him a calm approach to the thing, it didn't work.

I think the next step will have to be the trot poles, but how can I get them to trot over them when he wants to jump?

Crazy horse!

JoAnne · 09-09-2007, 10:48 PM

first walk him over them a number of times. the spacing of the trot poles, use at least three, discourages jumping. two poles he might jump, three or four poles make it much harder to jump them and encourages them to trot over them on the ground First walk him over them first several times.

Then trot. if he rushes toward them at a trot, circle away, do not let him trot over the poles till he is going at a relaxed working trot. A trick I used when first doing it with my horse was to walk him until he was a few strides from poles, then ask him to trot. then when he is calm trot him around the arena and down the poles. let him stretch his head down when he goes over the poles and just post normally. if he jumps a couple of poles the first time, calmly just keep doing it till he gets the idea to trot though them.

NachtJaeger · 09-09-2007, 11:05 PM

has he ever had any hunter/jumper training before? Is your trainer a H/J trainer?

I ask because a couple things jump out at me. One you say he over jumps or underjumps when you did the crossrails, honestly that is a typically baby jumper thing to do. They haven't learned how to jump comfortably yet and are still learning to judge distances themselves. Next your trainer decided to use the ground pole between two standards because he was rushing, understandable. I've done the same but it was with an experianced jumper. To teach a horse the basics, we've always started off with ground poles first at a walk, then trot and finally canter; teaches to check their stride and be aware of their feet, then move up to caveletti (ground poles about six inches off ground) again for the same purpose. Then begin jumping with low crossrails. Green horses are going to jump big even with those little jumps, eventually as they learn and become comfortable they jump smaller, instead of wasting energy. Good luck!

instigatorkate · 09-10-2007, 09:41 AM

There's a host of theories with how to deal with rushing. The one I've had the most success with I call the "no big deal" method. Basically, I lay out a bunch of random poles (and then progress to jumps), and we walk trot and canter as normal, but there's poles mixed in constantly in the warmup, work and cool down. The biggest mistake to make is to indicate to the horse that jumping is a big deal. It's not, it's just another one of the things that we ask our horses to do. Same as halt and w/t/c. Usually you can just ride through mild to moderate rushing, and keep going. The horse will get the hint, although it may take several sessions. If your horse is rushing severely, lunging in a circle and on straight lines over poles can make it safer for you. As others said, having lines of 3-4 poles can help make it clear to the horse to trot over (if it's 2 poles, sometimes they'll jump instead which can unseat the rider). Hope that helps!

ruffian · 09-10-2007, 09:51 AM

Don't Fret, I don't think there is any damage done. This is just a green horse, trying to figure this out and they often get exuberant or unsure.
All the suggestions so far are good, esp instagatorkate, try to treat jumping as no big deal, just dressage or flatwork with speed bumps.
Develop a good half halt so that you can ask you horse to come back to you as he approaches the jump/pole. Use multiple poles, esp trot poles (4-4.5 feet apart) when approaching small jumps.
Try all sorts of things, setting 4 poles in a fan shap (3 feet apart on one side and 5 feet apart on the other end) so that he has to trot a bend over them.
Canter distance is 10-12 feet, really depends on the horse's stride, but to canter a series of poles takes a fair bit of coordination, it is actually more difficult than cantering low fences.
We often use trot poles before and after the crossrail, half halt going in to get some control, but let the horse figure the poles out on his own, he'll soon start respecting them and start trotting through them in and out.
An experienced coach is a very good idea, you want to learn good body position to help him learn correctly as well

IrishRed32 · 09-10-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruffian

An experienced coach is a very good idea, you want to learn good body position to help him learn correctly as well

Don't worry about my trainer not teaching me good body position. I hurt so much today because yesterday (before the gorund pole incident) we did a 30 minute lunging exercise both without stirrups and without reins at the sitting trot to refine a better seat and have me rely on gravity not gripping to keep me in the saddle. It was a very eye-opening experience, but do I feel it today!

I love the ideas of poles around the outside track. I will have to do that today.

Thank you all so much for reassuring me that I didn't ruin my horse to jumping. He is green and I should have respected that.

Now, I just have to talk me husband into building those cavalettis he keeps promising me he will do...

JoAnne · 09-10-2007, 10:16 AM

now you have to train husband to jump the caveletti! Now that I want a video of please...

IrishRed32 · 09-10-2007, 10:22 AM

I think he has great potential! You should see him gallop away at the very mention of doing the laundry - beautiful form!

JoAnne · 09-10-2007, 10:48 AM

Crops and spurs work with laundry shy husbands lol.

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09-09-2007, 09:30 PM
IrishRed32 Halter broke Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Marysville, Ohio Posts: 185	Jump Training - too much too soon?? I need help. My darling X-Ray and I had a lesson today and the trainer put down a ground pole for us to trot over. X-Ray decides that this is indeed a two-foot fence and leaps over it! Each subsequent time he would rush the pole and start almost cantering towards it. Finally he settled into a trot, but it was not relaxing or simple, he was so concerned with that pole. Here is the back story: About a month ago, we thought it would be a fun idea to see if he would jump a nice 2' fence and he did with ease . I thought this was wonderful and then started jumping him over small 18" crossrails to help strengthen my seat and have been doing so for about the last three weeks. His jumping was never consistent; sometime I owuld have to kick him over the fence and other times he would rush it or his jump was way too big over the small rails. After seeing him today with that ground pole, I realized that we never really worked into those crossrails, just made him go over them and I am wondering how to get him back down and start him right. Can I do that, or is the damage done? I so enjoy jumping and want it to be a pleasurable, nice experience, not one where I am constantly fighting to bring him back into hand. __________________ 'You won't find your perfect pony straight away but sooner or later... he'll find you'- Thelwell

09-09-2007, 09:37 PM
JoAnne Started Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 2,442	I am not a jumping expert but don't think you did any damage. Imo your horse is just green. Usually, people don't put down just one pole because is confuses the horse. Typically, three groundpoles spaced out, or two, or four are used ( I forgot the correct spacing for trot stride, someone else please? ) Horses are usually trotted over the poles, not cantered till much later. Is your trainer experienced with hunter/jumpers? If not, find someone who is. There is also a book, "Gymnastic Jumping" by James Wofford, wit diagrams of spacing, ground poles used before crossrails etc. To train right you need to work systematically with spacing the rails and ground poles and slowly building up heights and combinations. Your horse sounds like he has talent and you have enthusiasm with proper guidance you guys should make a good team!

09-09-2007, 10:41 PM
IrishRed32 Halter broke Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Marysville, Ohio Posts: 185	The reason we put down the one ground pole was because he was rushing the fences. We put it between two standards so it "looked" like a jump to try to teach him a calm approach to the thing, it didn't work. I think the next step will have to be the trot poles, but how can I get them to trot over them when he wants to jump? Crazy horse! __________________ 'You won't find your perfect pony straight away but sooner or later... he'll find you'- Thelwell

09-09-2007, 10:48 PM
JoAnne Started Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 2,442	first walk him over them a number of times. the spacing of the trot poles, use at least three, discourages jumping. two poles he might jump, three or four poles make it much harder to jump them and encourages them to trot over them on the ground First walk him over them first several times. Then trot. if he rushes toward them at a trot, circle away, do not let him trot over the poles till he is going at a relaxed working trot. A trick I used when first doing it with my horse was to walk him until he was a few strides from poles, then ask him to trot. then when he is calm trot him around the arena and down the poles. let him stretch his head down when he goes over the poles and just post normally. if he jumps a couple of poles the first time, calmly just keep doing it till he gets the idea to trot though them.

09-09-2007, 11:05 PM
NachtJaeger Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 222	has he ever had any hunter/jumper training before? Is your trainer a H/J trainer? I ask because a couple things jump out at me. One you say he over jumps or underjumps when you did the crossrails, honestly that is a typically baby jumper thing to do. They haven't learned how to jump comfortably yet and are still learning to judge distances themselves. Next your trainer decided to use the ground pole between two standards because he was rushing, understandable. I've done the same but it was with an experianced jumper. To teach a horse the basics, we've always started off with ground poles first at a walk, then trot and finally canter; teaches to check their stride and be aware of their feet, then move up to caveletti (ground poles about six inches off ground) again for the same purpose. Then begin jumping with low crossrails. Green horses are going to jump big even with those little jumps, eventually as they learn and become comfortable they jump smaller, instead of wasting energy. Good luck!

09-10-2007, 09:41 AM
instigatorkate Long Yearling Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,197	There's a host of theories with how to deal with rushing. The one I've had the most success with I call the "no big deal" method. Basically, I lay out a bunch of random poles (and then progress to jumps), and we walk trot and canter as normal, but there's poles mixed in constantly in the warmup, work and cool down. The biggest mistake to make is to indicate to the horse that jumping is a big deal. It's not, it's just another one of the things that we ask our horses to do. Same as halt and w/t/c. Usually you can just ride through mild to moderate rushing, and keep going. The horse will get the hint, although it may take several sessions. If your horse is rushing severely, lunging in a circle and on straight lines over poles can make it safer for you. As others said, having lines of 3-4 poles can help make it clear to the horse to trot over (if it's 2 poles, sometimes they'll jump instead which can unseat the rider). Hope that helps! __________________ Getting through PA School is like driving at night in the fog. You can only see a couple feet in front of you at a time, but you can drive the whole distance like that.

09-10-2007, 09:51 AM
ruffian Long Yearling Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,017	Don't Fret, I don't think there is any damage done. This is just a green horse, trying to figure this out and they often get exuberant or unsure. All the suggestions so far are good, esp instagatorkate, try to treat jumping as no big deal, just dressage or flatwork with speed bumps. Develop a good half halt so that you can ask you horse to come back to you as he approaches the jump/pole. Use multiple poles, esp trot poles (4-4.5 feet apart) when approaching small jumps. Try all sorts of things, setting 4 poles in a fan shap (3 feet apart on one side and 5 feet apart on the other end) so that he has to trot a bend over them. Canter distance is 10-12 feet, really depends on the horse's stride, but to canter a series of poles takes a fair bit of coordination, it is actually more difficult than cantering low fences. We often use trot poles before and after the crossrail, half halt going in to get some control, but let the horse figure the poles out on his own, he'll soon start respecting them and start trotting through them in and out. An experienced coach is a very good idea, you want to learn good body position to help him learn correctly as well __________________ There is something about the outside of a Horse that\'s good for the inside of a man (Will Rogers)

09-10-2007, 10:16 AM
JoAnne Started Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 2,442	now you have to train husband to jump the caveletti! Now that I want a video of please...

09-10-2007, 10:22 AM
IrishRed32 Halter broke Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Marysville, Ohio Posts: 185	I think he has great potential! You should see him gallop away at the very mention of doing the laundry - beautiful form! __________________ 'You won't find your perfect pony straight away but sooner or later... he'll find you'- Thelwell

09-10-2007, 10:48 AM
JoAnne Started Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 2,442	Crops and spurs work with laundry shy husbands lol.