Good vs Bad

[Eagles Nest]

Okay guys, since this topic started elsewhere, I thought I'd start a direct one, WITHOUT anyone pointing fingers or mentioning names, etc.

Some feel there are more bad trainers than good, and others feel more people are blaming their horse's faults on a trainer who isn't God and can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.....So where do you guys fall? And if you think there is a true lack of good trainers, what do you think the reason is?


I'll start. I actually feel there is a mix of both. I think it is a little different for the stock horse people. Seems any old 4-H contester can age out and throw up a shingle to "break and train in 30 days" which is rediculous if you ask me. But then there are a ton of owners out there that only want to pay 350 to 450 a month for only one month, two tops.....I don't get that mentality....when you figure your budget to buy a horse, don't forget to figure in training and lessons!

The other thing I see is "every crow thinks her baby's white as snow." People can bring you a three-year-old that THEY think has talent, and you think he "might" have talent, but then you start to put some work into him and you learn he's lazy and stubborn and bully...even if he has some talent he doesn't have the heart and won't use it....well, you show the owner this broke horse, who isn't doing anything bad, but won't be a good show horse, and now you've ruined him...... I guess you could start beating and scaring him into doing his job, but that, to me, would be a bad trainer....

We say a trainer can only be as good as the horses they have to work....

I think there are PLENTY of good trainers out there. and PLENTY of bad ones. My issue is, for every 1 bad trainer, there are about 10 bad owners....and I also think there is a shortage of good horses...just me there...

I can say, I've never had a client, Saddle horse or stock horse, leave my barn un happy....They've always been tickled with the job I've done. (nocking on wood as I have a rocky that isn't naturally gaited that I'm trying to gait...hmmmm he's a little stubborn too, but he has a great owner)....

Oh, and BTW, I don't let my owners visit more than once a week, and a scheduled time. Not because I beat my horses, but because I actually work them and don't have time to baby sit clients...

[Gotta Love Duns]

I think that there are good trainers and there are bad trainers and then there are trainers that fall somewhere smack dab in the middle.

I know there are people that can only do so much with there horse and need help to go the extra step ie) getting on, but all the basic ground work has been done. Once those first rides have been taken the owner can continue the riding but they are missing there learning/time to teach the horse, walk/trot and only need 30 or 60 days. Yes this horse has been started but no way to being finished.

I know there are trainers out there that leave major holes in there training that shouldn't be there. Such as backing up or head tossing.

Then again I know if you send your horse out for only 30 days there will be holes in some training and can't expect your horse to side pass and neck rein.

I have seen what a bad trainer can do to a horse and it is not pretty and I have seen what a good trainer can do with a horse and it is amazing, all in the same amount of time. I feel if you are looking for a trainer look really careful and be able to see what the trainer has been able to do, if possible be able to see the actual owner ride the horse after the training is done as that is the real test of the training.

[ToveroMom]

Yes I will have to still go with my response in the other post.
There are some great trainers out there-but numberswise I think there are more bad ones than good.
Anyone can hang out a shingle-and the large group of trainers out there to draw on has the good,the bad and the downright ugly in the mix.
Some really great trainers start out well and then for many reasons[maybe overextending themselves] the quality goes down. My last trainer was a good guy. Lucky me,I had to send my horse out just as he got thrown out in a divorce and hit the skids. I miss the person he WAS.
True there are many folks who think their little Darlings are perfect. I think there area whole lot more folks that understand about what results they may expect.

[ruffian]

As good as a trainer might be, and as brilliant as the horse he is given, often it is a communication break down. We all assume that others understand what we are saying or are coming from the same place, but not so.
It is so important to get real specifics about what you are paying for, your expectations for when the time is up and how the trainer will do this.
Lots of people talk about "finished" but that can mean a lot of different things, a range from can WTC without bucking or falling over, to truly pushbutton, transitions and leads always correct, headset and tracking up properly.
I agree that there is no way on earth a trainer can say they will have a finished horse (from unbroke) in one month or even two or three. You don't always get what you pay for, but you better make sure you understand exactly what you are paying for.

[KitKat]

I don't know if I can comment on a lack of good trainers, it has been a very long time since I've looked for one, although I have had the pleasure of working for/with a number of trainers whom I have a lot of respect for and I've taken away something from each experience. I can only think of one trainer, and I won't "name" them, who I have absolutely NO respect for, although anyone in the showjumping or horse world for that matter would recognize this name and/or the organization he works for. I absolutely hated his methods and found them to be harsh and only worked because they forced the horses into submission. I didn't last long riding with him!

I think the real issue is the lack of knowledge where many horse owners are concerned. Especially in the area I'm in, there seems to be an abundant supply of people with plenty of money who figure horses are "easy" and anyone with a brain can hop on and ride them. These folks purchase horses with little to no knowledge of proper handling and the horses go sour. I know one guy (extremely wealthy) who purchased a couple of QH's, unbroke, sent them to a trainer for a while, brought them home and then basically did nothing with them. Now he eventually sold one, but the other one sat for 3 years. And he wonders why this horse is practically unbroke, belligerant, fat to the point of founder, and not worth anything! It makes me insane.

Another case of idiocy: Friends of ours built on an acreage last year. The husband, we'll call him "Tim," went out and bought himself a cowboy hat and pair of boots and went out on one of those 2 hour trail rides in the hills. Oh, and he read a book too. Now I'm just waiting for the day where he calls us up and says he bought a horse. I know it's going to happen, I'm just waiting for the call. He figures he can just turn a horse out in the pasture behind his house, let it sit on this lush grass 24/7/365 and hop on it when he feels like. I've explained to "Tim" all the work required, how he should at least sign up for lessons, learn some horsemanship, etc, but he won't listen to me, he figures he read a book so he's good to go. After all, if I can do it, he should have no problem right?! But the fact is, I've got 25 years experience and a whole lot of training behind me. It's making me insane. I'm getting the number for the SPCA handy.

As far as bad horses go, every horse has its limits, whether it be conformation or breeding or whatever. There are plenty of very limited horses out there, no question about it, but I think with good training, many of them could still be decent pleasure mounts for people who just want to trail ride or do low level pony club/4H/backyard type stuff.

Anyhow, I think the jist of my post is that it is unknowledgeable people who are ruining horses for the most part. It may be their training methods are not compatible with their horses, their skills just don't exist, or they just don't care. Too many people don't respect or acknowledge the amount of time, effort and knowledge that goes into handling horses properly. People think it is easy and anyone can do it and they go on that assumption, and it is the horses that suffer.

Sorry for the novel....

[Perrys_mama]

I think that there are weak people practicing almost every profession under the sun. "Bad" doctors, "Bad" teachers, "Bad" lawyers...you get the idea.

The biggest difference between horse training and other professions is that it is 100% legal to call yourself a horse trainer even if you have no credentials or formal training. Can you call yourself a doctor if you didn't go to medical school, no...but you can call yourself a "licensed Parelli Professional" even if you've never sat on the back of a green horse. Don't start in on Parelli, please, that is just an example of the weak accreditation in the horse industry.

But the terminology that I hear a lot of people here, and in "real life" using is that a trainer is "bad", or "abusive"...when there are very seldom any absolutes. If a horse comes back bleeding or permanently lame, then yes...go ahead and use the word "abusive" or "bad", because I think EVERYONE can agree that you never injure an animal as part of training...but besides out and out INJURY there is an awful lot of grey area that gets labelled "bad" when really, people just mean that a particular trainer didn't meet their expectations for their horse.

A proper trainer is one who drags your Black Beauty dreams back to reality. Anyone, experienced or green as grass, can fall prey to the old disease....romanticizing their horse, even just a little. Especially if you watched it grow up. A good trainer will ask you very uncomfortable questions when you say "oh yeah, just give him the basics"...when the stars in your eyes say that you want to show this horse when you get him back. The good trainer will say "the basics I can give you...THESE ARE THE BASICS I THINK WE CAN ACHIEVE"

In previous threads, again not naming names, because MOST people can be guilty of saying/thinking this about their own babies at least ONCE , people stated that they sent "perfect" horses off to trainers, and they came back WORSE. But did they? Did you maybe have unrealistic expectations? Did you maybe tell your trainer one thing, and mean another? And on the TRAINER'S side, were you very clear on what the owner wanted? Did you update them regularly on progress and help them change their expectations as their horse's progress dictated? I'm NOT pointing fingers, and yes, sometimes a trainer can do damage...but a lot of horror stories, at their root, turn out to be an owner who had unrealistic expectations for the time/money/effort they were prepared to spend.

Just because your friend's barrel horse came back a champion from trainer Zed after 60 days DOES NOT MEAN that your horse will have the same experience, and that is NOT a reflection on Trainer Zed's abilities. I think that is a huge contributing factor in the "bad" vs "good" debate.

And the same rules apply to trainers as apply to breeders. One (or a small number) breed/type, a distinct specialty, attention to presentation and marketing, a knowledgeable presence...you know, things that you look for in a breeder. A trainer can't be all things to everyone...choose one that matches your horse care philosophy, your schedule, your personality, and one that trains horses who act a lot like how you'd like yours to act. You're bound to have clashes, and trainers won't be offended if after 2 weeks you politely take your business elsewhere. Unless there is clear INJURY or DAMAGE, that's all it is, a disagreement or miscommunication in goals...no drama, no scene, and only two weeks "wasted".

[Perrys_mama]

Eagles Nest, you one comment about "a lot of bad horses"...I think that is true...there are a lot of poorly bred, poorly conformed, crummy temperamented horses out there...mostly the result of awful, awful breeding programs (fugly horse of the day has a very interesting take on that). Some horses, no matter what, do not respond very well to riding training. Are they unrideable? No...but few people would have a good time on them!

Other horses get labelled "bad" because they aren't good at what their owners dreamed of them doing. Want to endurance race? Spent lots of money on an Arab with good bloodlines from a reputable breeder? Sent her to a well recommended trainer? Still came back dull, slow, unwilling and with no drive whatsoever? In that entire equation, it is easy to blame the trainer...but sometimes you just have to blame the horse. Even the best breeding program tosses out duds...or "freaks"...maybe your mare is the first from that program to be good at roping (or whatever).

[ToveroMom]

OK THIS is a bad trainer. He USED to be a great trainer..life comes apart sometimes and can change an attitude in a heartbeat.
MY point is-you can go over a training plan with the trainer and have everything lined out. feed and stabling requirements and what you want accomplished and it can go bad.
I trust no one anymore-I will be by weekly to monitor things and a good trainer will not mind that.
I sent Blondie out for work on 2 things-working on crossing over to neck reining and work on her gait transitions..period. She had been under saddle for 6 mos and was quiet and responsive. She was not black Beauty-nor did I view her as such.
I had known the trainer socially for a couple years and knew of at least a dozen horses he had trained for some of our friends. He worked fine for those. I felt lulled into complacency. Bad move.
This is what I got back..100 pound weight loss and





It is possible to get recommendations and get everything all lined out and still get stung. My advice is to do everthing you cited and then visit weekly-a lot can happen in a month.
I will in future NOT be sending anything that is alive his way and he has totally shot his career in the foot. He moved and took the horses to his new place. We had no idea where he was. We spoke with him about twice a week and the son of a gun lied to us every time. He was bringing her back to the barn as a "courtesy" He dropped her off in the middle of the night and stuck her in a paddock.
BE careful-do not believe-check up.
If the trainer you find is decent and good-thank your lucky stars.

[Orchid]

Yeah, ToveroMom, I'd say that falls into the category of BAD.

[Perrys_mama]

Yes, I would call that damage/injury...pretty universally bad, and I feel bad for your poor horse. It's terrible that she had to go through that, and I hope she recovers.

OK THIS is a bad trainer. He USED to be a great trainer..life comes apart sometimes and can change an attitude in a heartbeat

Agree, and it is shameful that he would take his personal problems out on a horse. I guess you can't know what you/someone else is capable of until they are in that situation.


BUT, in all your years of horses, how many times has this happened? How many times have you picked up a horse looking like this after thirty days? If it were my horse, I'd be absolutely enraged too...not to mention filing my evidence with the Humane Society and pressing for animal cruelty charges...but he is ONE guy.

How many "good" trainers have you dealt with? How many times have you gotten a horse back in fine condition but with less progress than you expected? That's what is being debated...not if truly bad trainers exist or not. Of course they do...so do doctors who leave instruments in people, parents who beat their children, undertakers who steal organs...It's pretty much a given that people in any job can be lowlifes and crap at what they do...but have you personally experienced more of THAT than of other types?

You have experience, so what do you think? This poor mare aside?

[ToveroMom]

Well in this area it is tough-we looked for some time when our trainer got too booked up with halter horses to do any riders.
I will say that over the years I know far more trainers that I would NOT leave my horse with than trainers that I would. That is just my opinion.
The question was good vs bad..and with that criteria I had to go with more bad than good. This entirely leaves out the biggest middle group of mediocre to does OK group.
This horse is not going to make a WP horse and I am not looking to make her one,even though she was bred for it. She is solid as a rock on trails and will go through anything. She was to be for pattern classes and Trail class. I know her weak spots and she is too short to have the sweepiness for HUS, or the movement they like in WP. I was not asking for him to pound a square prg in a round hole.
I called the Humane Society-they said while disturbing-it is hard to prove abuse. The big weight loss? She told me horses lose weight in training-and we have no proof of what she looked like when she left. That mare was a pudge monkey when she left.
So he seems to get a pass on this incident. I hope we do not run into him-it would not be pretty.

[Perrys_mama]

I would say that in this area, there is a big difference between people who present themselves as "trainers" and people who "train horses". Even being really, really new to English/Performance riding when I started, that distinction was really clear...and I think there are more good "trainers" in this area than bad (although lots of lively debate about whose methods are good/bad/effective). There are also a whole whack of people that run boarding operations and offer to "train" your horse while it is boarded...I would say that of the ones who advertise, there are many more weak than strong of that variety.

[SunnyKS]

Training is so subjective that it's hard to say good vs bad in a general sense. I think there are too many inexperience folks training.

As for the shortage well it's a hard stinking job (with a high potiental for injury)! And you have to be a good time manager, self directed and a savvy business person as well as talented and experienced enough with the horses. That's a hard combo to find. I think that thier are plenty of talented people who could be trainers but with out the rest it will fail as a business.

I will argue the shortage of good horses. A horse is a horse. It is designed to eat grass and poo. Everything over and above that is a owner's choice. It's not a horses fault if his owners pick a job for him that he was not inclined or built to do. It's not a horses fault if he has encounted ignorate people that screwed him up. A horse may not be good at his job but that is NOT his fault. That is the fault of those trying to put him in an ill suited job.

[eieio]

Well...I try very hard to be one of the good ones. The main reason, I got back into training was because....I could not find one I trusted to send my horses too and had the technology. Of course becoming a full time horse mom and getting a lighted arena....helped my decision tremendously.

But as with all things, a good trainer to you is maybe not a good trainer to others. If you are looking for thirty day wonders...then I am not your trainer.

If you are looking for your horse to do something he is not happy doing...I am not your trainer.

If you are looking for your money's worth in wet saddle blankets (meaning I want the horse ridden 2 hours a dat until it foams, 7 days/365) ....I am not your trainer.

If your are looking for a show...I am not your trainer.

I only train for people who want nice riding horses and have reasonable goals. I also have a sixty day minimum. I put the horse first and that frankly means that if I don't get the job done...the horse stays on my dime.

For example...we have been having record heat indexs here. We are miserable and as everyone knows Spirit is here. Her work has been light. First she a two year old...Second it is HOT! So the fact that Bonanza called and the target delivery weekend will not work, is good news to me. We will plan on a week later to make up for the times that she has gotten 15 minutes instead of a full ride due to the heat. Yes, it is my dime...but that is fair, Right?

Yes, a good training experience takes a kind, thoughtful, considerate, educated, patient trainer. It also takes an owner with reasonable goals and whole bunch of common sense.

I wish trainers would seperate themselves into two groups. Starters and Finishers. I am always looking for a Crash Test Dummy to get the first rides out of the way. Getting finish is my goal.

I also wish the owners would seperate into two groups of the I want this people and the I want it now?

[Perrys_mama]

I keep quoting "Fugly Horse"...it's been a slow day, and I've had lots of Internet time...

They say the same thing as eieio...why aren't there more "starters" in the training world? Why does every experienced trainer seem to be a show-happy specialist? I know there are trainers like eieio out there, but sometimes they seem pretty few and far between.

The other thing that my trainer taught me is that you can't just send a horse out for a whole whack of uninterrupted training. You start them, let the owner and horse re-bond and equalise to each other's levels, THEN you look at finishing training, if both are ready. Sending away a brand new 2-year old for six months and getting a futurity winning barrel runner DOES happen, a LOT around here, but is it best if you're a pleasure rider looking for a nice horse to ride? Maybe run some fun barrels out back? I would contend that no...that's not the best strategy. Thoughts?

ETA: this is now a "quality" thing...not good vs. bad, I think.

[ShawneeAcres]

What is YOUR definition (I say "your" in the collective sense as each person must define this for themselves) of good? THere is "results" good and there is "methods" good, and honestly they DON'T always equate! I know a trainer that is nationally well known and wins a LOT, his clients horses win a LOT, we are talking on the national level here, not some local rinky dink show circuit. I actually worked for him for a while. Yes he gets results, the horses do perform, BUT his methods are indescribably atrociuous if you ask me! The hroses look GORGEOUS they put their head down and keep it down (or else!). His rationale is that his clients must be able to jump on the horse and win, "any dummy has to be able to ride them". And in all the time I wokred for him I only saw three clients (he has well over 25 horses in training at any given time) actually coem and ride on a regular basis. So whose fault is this, his, or the owners???? Not defending him, there is a reason I am not there now! But when the owner expects to walk up, get on the horse and have it perform seamlessly with no real effort on the riders part, or skill I might add, then who's to say he is wrong (well I do, but....) If you send a horse to this guy you'll get what you wanted if you want a horse that wins. Now there is the opposite extreme the trainer who is overly mild with the horses, and doesn't accomplish much of anything. THey are concerned only with the method and the result may take years to achieve. So who is right and who is wrong? WHo is bad and who is good, again depends on YOUR definition.

After I go and clean the durn MESS the storm caused yesterday I will coem back and then give MY definition of good, which incidentally is how I train LOL

[Perrys_mama]

That kind of leads me to this next comment...that different methods are appropriate to different levels of competition (and individual horses, but that's a different point).

For example, would you ask a Little Leaguer to train the same way as an MLB player? Of course not, that would be child abuse. 7 days a week running wind sprints, doing weights, getting yelled at for being lazy...not so much appropriate for a five-year old. OK, maybe that's not level...that's age.

Let's use another analogy...let's say you have a little girl who LOVES to dance (say that little girl is me, and look closely at my avatar). This little girl does not have the build to be a professional dancer. She also doesn't have the build to even be a very GOOD dancer at the local level. Are you going to push that little girl to train seven days a week with a crazy-ballet teacher who is constantly pushing? That would be pretty cruel right, set her up to fail?

On the other hand, let's say you have another little girl who is fine-boned, graceful and incredibly athletic. She also loves to dance, and she has POTENTIAL. The crazy-ballet teacher gets a GLEAM in her eye watching this little girl. This little girl gets a GLEAM in her eye thinking about the Royal Ballet...maybe then, maybe then would you put her in classes 7 times a week? Would you maybe send her away to the Royal Ballet school where she'll be pushed, pushed, pushed all the way to achieving her dream?

That analogy applies to horses/riders too. WHile the National Trainer's methods are atrocious to you and your goals...he's achieving his clients' goals admirably. And I doubt that National Level competitors would stand for any kind of mistreatment...most care about their animals deeply...but they also don't want to waste talent, time and money. Their horses might have what it takes to endure the rigours of training for that level...and I would go out on a limb and say that very few horses do...so you need to find a trainer who moves appropriate to the horse, but also to your LEVEL. And be honest! What level do you want to achieve? What level is possible with this particular animal? Is it more important to bond, go slowly, not push...or to compete successfully at a high level in the minimum amount of time? And neither one of those is a "bad" goal...but they are a spectrum apart when it comes to training methods.

[SunnyKS]

Originally Posted by Perrys_mama

WHile the National Trainer's methods are atrocious to you and your goals...he's achieving his clients' goals admirably. And I doubt that National Level competitors would stand for any kind of mistreatment...most care about their animals deeply...but they also don't want to waste talent, time and money.

Just a side note once you get to the upper levels there is a WHOLE class of folks that do the horse thing as a status symbol. They are an instrument to make them look good and they don't care or want to think about how that happens. They want to show up, find the horse outside the ring groomed, saddled, and warmed up They want climb on win and go home. Unless you've been there you don't really believe thier are people like that, but there are.

[barnmom]

T-Mom, that's why it is really hard for me to trust ANYONE with my horses, we have had 1 trainer ride Gracie and we have been there for every session, and when we first moved her we went everyday, sometimes twice a day until I trusted the girl that we were boarding with, I have seen so many nightmares it's really difficult for me to trust!

I hope you baby heals physically and mentally. I swear I would want to kill him!

I'm sure there are lots of good trainers out there but I think you and your horse have to be comfortable and not everyone believes the same thing and not everyone gets along. So i think as well as having a talented trainer you also have to be compatable and strive for the same outcome.

My daughter is doing fime training Gracie, we may not get results overnight but what's the hurry? They have fun learning and it's a journey they love taking together!

[ShawneeAcres]

Originally Posted by Perrys_mama

That kind of leads me to this next comment...that different methods are appropriate to different levels of competition (and individual horses, but that's a different point).

For example, would you ask a Little Leaguer to train the same way as an MLB player? Of course not, that would be child abuse. 7 days a week running wind sprints, doing weights, getting yelled at for being lazy...not so much appropriate for a five-year old. OK, maybe that's not level...that's age.

Let's use another analogy...let's say you have a little girl who LOVES to dance (say that little girl is me, and look closely at my avatar). This little girl does not have the build to be a professional dancer. She also doesn't have the build to even be a very GOOD dancer at the local level. Are you going to push that little girl to train seven days a week with a crazy-ballet teacher who is constantly pushing? That would be pretty cruel right, set her up to fail?

On the other hand, let's say you have another little girl who is fine-boned, graceful and incredibly athletic. She also loves to dance, and she has POTENTIAL. The crazy-ballet teacher gets a GLEAM in her eye watching this little girl. This little girl gets a GLEAM in her eye thinking about the Royal Ballet...maybe then, maybe then would you put her in classes 7 times a week? Would you maybe send her away to the Royal Ballet school where she'll be pushed, pushed, pushed all the way to achieving her dream?

That analogy applies to horses/riders too. WHile the National Trainer's methods are atrocious to you and your goals...he's achieving his clients' goals admirably. And I doubt that National Level competitors would stand for any kind of mistreatment...most care about their animals deeply...but they also don't want to waste talent, time and money. Their horses might have what it takes to endure the rigours of training for that level...and I would go out on a limb and say that very few horses do...so you need to find a trainer who moves appropriate to the horse, but also to your LEVEL. And be honest! What level do you want to achieve? What level is possible with this particular animal? Is it more important to bond, go slowly, not push...or to compete successfully at a high level in the minimum amount of time? And neither one of those is a "bad" goal...but they are a spectrum apart when it comes to training methods.

I agree in the most part with what you are saying, HOWEVER in any book, tying a horses head so that it literally cannot get its nose up past its knee joints and lunging it this way (in a chambon no less) for 20 minutes is pretty atrocious and these hroses regularly need all kinds of injections to stay sound, due to the undue stress placed on their neck and backs. But that is an aside. Yes, national level competitors and horse MUST train at an entirely different level. And yes I agree with most else of what you say. To me the "perfect trainer" is one that reads the horse, takes the appropriate actions based on the hroses responses to the training methods being used. The perfect trainer is not afraid to go out of the box and listen to new ideas and methods, becuase you may learn one tidbit you can use in a particular situation, and you may also learn what NOT to do which can be jsut as important. When I train it is with the horse in mind, its abilities and the goals we are trying to acheive. I do push the horse just enough to see what it will DO when pushed, that is important to know. Many atheltic talented hroses simply cannot hold up to the rigors of training that is necessary to be competitive but are great for the pleasure hrose, trail horse. If the horse does not want to do a particular job then I am not going to MAKE it do that job. Now this doesn't mean they are jsut having a brain fart moment, but if it becomes apparent that inspite of the hroses breeding, conformation etc it simply doesn't LIKE to jump, as was the case with a mare sent to me that was SO DANGEROUS jumping, she had the talent and ability but somehow, along the way she decided this wasn't going to be a job she'd do and saw her stop many times in terribly nasty ways leading to BIG falls for the riders, we had to change her job. I could jump her, but many people couldn't but just becuase I could didn't mean she should. In this case, she went on to do dressage and was good and was happy at it. SOmetimes that is the case, not always, but finding the appropriate niche for the hrose should be a goal of every trainer/owner. Most of my training is done on horses I own, horses that are sent to me to market and sell. I do a FEW for individuals, but don't really pound the pavement to do so. I enjoy brining a horse along, like to teach horses the basics, both on the ground and under saddle and like to teach young horses to jump. Good trainers keep the horses welfare at the top of the list, but aren't afraid to reprimand behavoir that is dangerous or could become habit. Good trainers teach the horse to respect them, and in gaining that respect the horses will usually do waht is asked, becuase that is the type of herd relationship the horse understands.