The Bridle War...

[NoniMe]

Some days, it's wonderful. Some days, it's utterly amazing. Some days, it's like the world could stop and everything would be all right anyway...

Today, however, was not that day. It's like 5 steps forward, 500 back...and still sliding. As you read the following, bear in mind we haven't yet mastered the whole tying thing...so we are in the round pen.

Tango has always had an attitude about the bit and bridle. He's refused it, and there have been hour long battles (that he won the first one on...but I've won them since). There's the duck and clench, where he puts his mouth down onto the ground and clenches his teeth together...and can stay that way for 5 minutes at a time - without moving. There I stand, bent in half, with Tango shoving his mouth into the ground and me just being as patient as possible, even with the blood rushing to my head. He's even given wee Sharon a hard time on occasion, although not nearly as hard as he's given me. People ask me why I bridle him first and then do up his saddle...and I tell them I have no idea if we'll get that far.

But the last few times I've offered him the bit, he has taken it, without any issues, no hesitation, nothing untoward. Relaxes his mouth, accepts the bit, and the headstall slides easily over his ears. I had figured we had moved past the stubbornness about the bit...that he had finally figured out the fight wasn't worth it, that he was going to have to work anyway, bridle or no.

Until tonight.

It was like I had never ever shown him a bridle before - let alone placed one in his mouth. He was furious that I would interrupt his life with a darned bit...and refused. I looped the reins around his neck as usual...and hung the bridle over his ear, then his other ear (that's our usual way to do it...let the bridle dangle off an ear for a few moments...). I placed my hand through his ears as always, and he lifted his head. Knowing he does this, I went with it...and up we stretched.

Then it was down...to the ground. My hamstrings are really stretching...we are down there for forever. And then - for the first time, he took off. The bit banging on his legs, the bridle dragging on the ground, reins over his neck. He steps on it, and a part goes flying. He figures out this is fun, and places - literally intentionally steps onto - the headstall, and yanks his head up. Spang! Another part goes flying.

I'm walking towards him slowly, whoa'ing him the whole time...shhh, boy, easy, boy, you're all right, darlin...and the look he gives me is "well of course I'm all right, silly - I'm going to destroy this ****ed thing so I don't have to wear it." And he steps on it again and the caveson goes ripping off. And he dances away...just out of my reach, not panicking or even being pissed, just destroying what he doesn't want to have on his head. He grabs one rein in his mouth, tosses the carcass of the bridle, and stomps on it again.

Finally, the bit is attached to the reins, but there's nothing else left. It's dragging between his legs (he's got one leg caught up in it), and he looks at me. I look at him, whoa'ing him, shhh boy, easy, boy, you're all right, darlin...and he calmly steps out of the reins, and now they're just hanging from around his neck. I get to him, lift the reins over his head, and tell him "I can't believe you just did that." I called him a name or two, and collected the throat latch, the other bits of leather, and the remnants of the bridle and hand it over to a friend who's been watching.

I lunged the bejeezus outta him...for the next 40 minutes, it was my rules, my speed, my direction. I managed to break a lunge whip by whacking it on the ground, so I was just poking and pointing. He didn't listen at all for a while - just went as fast as he could in a circle. But eventually, he and I got to a point where I would lift the shaft of the whip and he'd change direction, and call for a gait - w, t, c, whatever he wasn't doing - and then he brought his attention to me, his ear came onto me, and the tongue/licking started. I whoa'd him, told him look at me, and dropped the shaft of the whip. He came over to me, and lowered his head.

We did the walk, him following me, and me in tears. I asked my friend to loan me her bridle for a bit, because Tango needed one in his mouth before we would be able to be done. She got it, and brought it to me.

I whoa'd Tango, and hung the new bridle over his ear. Then his other ear. And then offered it to him...and he took it easily and without balking whatsoever. The first time. We walked for about 20 minutes, him wearing his bridle and me wiping tears from my face. Both of us had our heads down - we were tired and I was just low and discouraged. But I loved on him, and told him good boy, and we did stop and goes as the win point. He did those perfectly, taking the one step back off my shoulder when I stopped each and every time.

But I tell you, it was like we'd never ever worked together. It was like this whole last three weeks of near perfect behavior had never happened - and I kid you not, he was mean to the bridle - he killed it good. There's no fixing it, not even close. He was deliberately stepping on it and yanking his head up, not because he was trapped, but because he was pulling it apart.

The barn manager came over while I was putting Tboy up, and she said "you know what's wrong with your boy?" and all I said was "yeah. His owner."

He will be floated next wednesday...I suspect some of this is because it hurts him. But I also suspect that this was because he purely didn't want the bit in his mouth, and didn't want to work tonight. He hasn't been working the last two days, because of other issues, but it's like those two days off he forgot everything - including that I make him work regardless of him having a bit in his mouth or not...

I am just going to get into bed and cry. It's times like this where I think I am so far over my head...I don't know what I'm doing, I don't understand why he's doing things like this; I don't have the money for a new bridle (the one he destroyed was supposed to last until September when I have some cash coming in...), and I just don't know what to do.

I can't have him destroying my friend's bridle, either...it's quite a bit nicer than the old decrepit one I had been using...and I can't replace two bridles, you know?

I'm so discouraged. I know - I've read the recent posts about Tboy, and those really happened, he really does love me...but I am a rotten horse mommy and I can't even get him to accept the darned bridle without destroying it. It's really like we've gone back to step one.

My bed's calling...and I don't know what to do tomorrow.

Best-
Noni

ETA: I just read my post about Tango cuddling me, and it made me realize that despite as hard as it was today, he could've been very mean to me...he could've bit at me, or kicked at me, or...whatever else. He never did. He was just taking it out on the bridle. I still don't know what I'm going to do tomorrow, but I will approach it with love and knowing he loves me.

He's my boy. I may be the rottenest horse mommy around, but he loves me and I love him...and we'll get through this.

[bfoshee]

I had similar problems with Trigger when I first got him, but not as bad as what you describe. I ended up sending him to a trainer (best money I ever spent!). My trainer told me to lunge him first, before anything else.. just to "get his head right" (my trainer is an old cowboy.. lol he has his own language). When he starts consistently doing what you want him to do (as you described above after you worked him), then take him out of the ring and try the bridle.

If he gives you any s***, back to the ring he goes... until he accepts the bridle and behaves himself. I don't know if it would work for your horse, but it worked for mine.

You might also want to go to Country Supply or ebay or somewhere and buy one of those cheap-o nylon bridles to use on him until he gets straightened out. They're inexpensive, hard to break, and then you could save money for a really nice one later.

Good luck!
--b

[version1955]

Nothing you've written indicates that you are doing anything wrong, nor for that matter is Tango doing any thing wrong. He's testing you. You described it all, you know that that is what he is doing. For whatever reason... or no reason... or reasons only Tango knows. Tango is simply being Tango and you, as it seems to me, are responding appropriately.

I don't know a lot about you and Tango and what you've done, but it seems to me that you might want to consider backing way up in what kind of training you are expecting him to be good at.

Back up in your training. Very small stuff, halter and leading, right, left, whoa. Not at freedom in the round pen but you and him and a halter. Until he accepts the halter and your cues/commands/requests I wouldn't even consider tacking him up as if you are going to ride him.

I would get as him to respond to the smallest of cues.

I expect my horses to come up to me from the pastures into the corral when I come in there and call/whistle.

I expect my horses to stand still once I've draped the lead line of the halter over the back of their neck. And remain standing still as I put on the halter.

I expect them to walk forward if I say "lead" and/or I lead off on my right foot. If I don't say "lead" and lead off on my left foot they are to stand still.

When I walk my horses on the halter I expect them to be paying attention to me and only me, barring a bird flying up right in front of us, like that. Their head will be slightly turned toward me and their lovely, soft left eye is looking into mine.

There is more like that as I tack them up to ride. It gives me confidence that I am the one in the lead so we can both have a safe and sane ride. Well, we're usually safe but not always sane... I'm usually the first one to go but we all keep workin' on it, huh?

[David]

Noni. I would suggest you try one of those cheap waxed nylon bridles for now, and maybe use a western one ( or at least take the cavesone off) because I know some horses don't like an english caveson. You might also try a halter bridle. It's a web or flat leather halter that has straps that snap to it and hold a bit. With a halter bridle you could put the halter on and then slip the bit in his mouth and then snap it in place. You also might want to put clips on your reins so that you can bit him with out the reins then put the reins on last.

[Jess6092]

Poor Noni. I am sorry that you had a tough night. I agree that Tango is just testing you and you should not get too discouraged, just keep on doing what you are doing. You are doing great and it will all work out in its own time. Good luck, and try to focus on the highlights of your time with him like you said. Hope you feel better today!

[beckyp]

Don't get discouraged,Noni. You are not doing anything wrong,Tango is just testing you. The other evening my oldest granddaughter and I decided to ride,got my TB tacked up,she had saddle on her mare,needed me to bridle her. I had halter on her,unbuckled it and put it around her neck,then put reins over her head,before I could place bit near her mouth she pulls back and shakes halter off,luckily that is alll she did. I don't know what set her off,I was doing the same thing I have always done when bridling her. Then we go into field to mounting block,my guy is usually anxious to start off,so had Keesha hold him while I mounted,then I was waiting for Keesha to mount,usually she has no problems,but Sora was not standing still so I had to hold her and use Dancer as a block while Keesha got on her. After that we had no problems,it just seemed that Sora wanted to test Keesha.So hang in there and keep on keeping on with Tango. I know we all have days we want to crawl back into bed and cry when we think we aren't accomplishing anything with our equine friends,we just have to work with them and eventually everything will work out.

[beezwing]

hugs, babe....there is some sort of horse specific Murphy's law...they always act up the worst while people are watching.

I agree with the others longe him first, its not like you are going to tire him out. But if you get his head right that you are leading, then bet you will get him to accept the bridle, and if he refuses...well he can take a few laps.

Just a thought, he may be protesting you doing things in the wrong order. He expects the saddle first. Just an idea, Gideon just taught me that he will only pick up his feet if I do them in order, near side front, then back, the off side front...then dance about like a ninny trying to get the last foot.

Now I am all for warping their minds, and I will expect him to allow me to do all sorts of silly things in the "wrong" order, "wrong" side because you never know when you may have to dismount from the right, bridle him first...whatever, but it isn't a fight I want to have right now.

Oh and those Clinton Anderson tie rings are really very neat, and excellent and safe way to teach being tied.

k

[dreamcleaner]

Noni,

I know I have mentioned this product before. Nutural Bitless Bridle.

Once I heard of this, I spend hours researching bitless bridles. This is the story that did it for me. I am copying it from another forum. I bought it and I love it.

If I shouldn't have copied and posted this mods, sorry.


I personally had been using subtle bits in my training of driving horses for in excess of 20 years until a while back when I was doing driving clinics at The Royal Winter Fair in Toronto.

After one of my long lining demonstrations with my Canadian Champion Morgan stallion, I was back at the stall area unbridling him when I noticed a woman looking very closely at my driving bridle. This obviously educated, horse knowledgeable person was examining my straight bar driving bit when I approached her and asked if I could help or answer any questions she might have. Her reply to me was “ Your stallion performs beautifully with that bit, almost as if he’s listening to every word you say to him”. At this point, I went right into my (almost canned) speech to her about how in fact, I don’t really use the bit at all, that he actually responds to my voice and hand aids as he had been trained from birth with my “love, trust, respect method” as opposed to the “fear/pain method”.

At this point, she introduced herself as Zoe Brooks from Sudbury, Ontario, the inventor of the patented Nurtural No-Bit Bridle and invited me to come watch their bitless riding demonstrations and come to their booth to see the bridles that they had. She asked me if I had ever considered riding or driving my stallion bitless and I told her that indeed, my husband rides him all the time bareback with only a halter on with a lead shank attached to both sides of the halter, so in theory, that is bitless riding. I skeptically went and watch her bitless riding demonstration and was very impressed at what I saw. Two young girls around 15 years old did the world’s first bitless Pas de Deux, dressage demonstration under the direction of German medal winning rider Kurt Hick. The entire program was being videoed and was being broadcasted live on television in Germany.
The young girls riding the horses appeared to complete control at the walk, trot, canter, whoa and even side passing and doing jumps. I was intrigued enough to go and check out her display booth. I went back to the Nurtural No-Bit booth to check out this “bitless” thing. That’s when Zoe hit me with the zinger! She asked me if I would be interested in letting her young girl ride “my boy” bitless in the next demonstration? I wasn’t absolutely sure how my boy would handle being ridden by a stranger bitless but decided to give it a try anyways and gave her the OK. Zoe came to our stall just prior to the demo and fitted “Promise” with his new bitless bridle and the young girl just got on him and rode off. Inside the ring, he was perfect (he’s a bit of a showboat anyways) and went around the ring as if he had been riding bitless all his life! At first, he was flopping his mouth as if to say “Hay, where’s the bit”? He settled right in and did all his gaits including the back up and side pass. Even the young girl was surprised at how quickly he caught on and had to confess that she was a little scared as she had never ridden a horse (or a Stallion)with that much power and extension in its trot.

After the demo, I went back to the Nurtural No- bit booth and I was amazed to see a blinkered bitless driving bridle hanging on the wall. I was even more amazed to see a photo and quotes with a Standardbred racing on a track without a bit! Still skeptical, my mind was racing with how I was going to explain to my husband how I had purchased this totally unsafe (in my mind at that time) bridle that would most likely never be used practically in my training program or clinics. Then it hit me, “why do I need a bit when training youngsters or conditioning up our already trained horses”? All of a sudden, it was making a lot of sense to me. At that point, Zoe Brooks said to me (being the shrewd business woman that she is!) “Seeing that your stallion did so well riding bitless and he listens to you anyways, why don’t you join our next demonstration and long line him bitless”?

I thought to myself, what have I got to loose? I’m at The Royal pushing my driving/long lining clinics and promoting the Morgan horse, this will get me double the exposure I was expecting to get! Then I thought, what if my horse doesn’t behave himself (I’d never tried to long line him bitless before) and makes me look ridiculous in front of thousands of people? It was time to put the same trust into my horse that he puts into me. I decided to try the challenge put to me!

Zoe, fitted the blinkered bridle onto him (anticipating a sale, I’m sure) and into the arena we went. I was amazed that “Promise” took to the bitless bridle right off. He had lost some of his natural (Manufactured), head carriage and he kept chewing his mouth (looking for the bit) but he loved it and within minutes he was doing everything that he normally does with a bit naturally, including backing up and side passing! We did demo’s for Zoe for the rest of the 10 days of The Royal. I didn’t however buy the bridle! I explained to Zoe how in Morgan driving, we use sidechecks to keep a horse’s head in frame and she custom made me a bitless driving bridle with a sidecheck and detachable blinkers so that I could not only use the bridle for driving but also for training youngsters or riding bitless! There is a picture of this bitless/riding bridle on the back cover of this manual.

Another turn of events came out of this same Royal experience that convinced me that bitless was the way to go when training youngsters: The people representing the Gypsy Vanner horse were showing their young 18 month old Gypsy Vanner horse in the breeds of the world there. I got to know them fairly well as I was just in love with beautiful young colt with its feathered legs. They had watched my first session with my stallion bitless and approached me. They told me that they wanted to try to hook him to a sleigh this winter and would I try a long lining demo with him wearing just a halter in their next session in the ring? I thought again, what if this horse makes me look ridiculous? What’s it going to say for my training expertise? I had seen this horse in the ring the day before and it barely even lead on the halter let alone trying to ground drive him. They somehow talked me into trying it and within just a few sessions, I had him going great at the walk and whoa! This taught me that you really don’t need a bit to train youngsters as long as you gain their trust and do your basic ground work.



Having now extensively trained all of my youngsters and conditioned my senior horses using the bitless bridle, I firmly believe that a horse never needs to be bitted until it is absolutely necessary. Being a regional distributor for the Nurtural No-Bit Bridle, feel free to contact me for more information on “Going Bitless”! Or check out the Nurtural Horse website at www.nuturalhorse.com.

How The Bitless Bridle Works:

"What makes this bitless bridle work so well?"

It's the very unique design! The Nurtural No-Bit BRIDLE is the only bitless bridle with a Circle-X under the jaw, gripping on the noseband and reinstraps with enough adjustment to allow you to attach your reins almost exactly as you would with a bit. Using this bridle is intuitive to both horse and rider. Just ride, train or drive as if you have a bit ... without the fight!
When you pull on the left rein to ask your horse to turn left, instead of creating a “pull” on the bit at the left side of the mouth, the short reinstrap instantly pulls on the ring and the noseband, asking the horse to turn its nose toward the pull. The pull on the reinstrap travels to the Circle-X and to the continuation of the reinstrap as it crosses the fat part of the cheek on the opposite side of the horse's head, asking the horse to turn its entire head. The pull/turn is as small or large as you like.
The horse turns its head to the left in response to the pressure on the noseband, under the jaw, on its right cheek and, from an extreme tug, pressure will even be applied to the poll. Just keep applying pulsing pressure until the horse turns as far as you like. The horse soon learns that a gentle tug on a single rein means to turn in that direction. When you stop pulling on the rein, the bridle releases to the comfortable position, signalling the horse to stop turning.
To slow or stop, close your hands, applying a gentle, squeezing pressure evenly on both reins. This puts pressure on the textured noseband and Circle-X and lowers the poll. (If your horse is not that well trained – pull harder, keeping your hands low as with a bit.)
With loose reins, the bridle applies no pressure. Pressure and release signals the horse to do as you wish – without the pain and confrontation of a bit!
The Circle-X and the reinstraps remain positioned to respond to your next signal. With loose reins, there is little-to-no pressure on the horse's head.

English trained horses that are used to being "on-the-bit" respond to the pressure of the noseband and, react essentially the same as they do with a bit ... without the fight.
Western trained horses are comfortable on a loose rein, and appear to learn to neck-rein quickly. There is no reason in my mind why a properly trained Driving horse cannot do the same.

We suggest starting your horse in your new Nurtural No-Bit BRIDLE in an enclosed area. First fit the bridle carefully then show the horse how it works. To maximize performance, it is important that your bridle be fitted correctly for your horse. See video of how to fit your bridle at http://www.nurturalhorse.com/how_it_works.htm

History of the Bitless Bridle:

Excerpts from “A Bit of History” by Leslie Smith Dow

Bits and bridles have been in use for thousands of years, ever since humans first domesticated horses. The very first bits and bridles were likely made of two cheek pieces of carved antler or wood with a rawhide or sinew mouthpiece. More solid materials later replaced this ‘soft’ bit when metal bits were developed around 1,500-1,200 B.C.
“….you must abstain from pulling at his mouth with the bit, or applying the spur and whip--methods commonly adopted by people with a view to a fine effect, though, as a matter of fact, they thereby achieve the very opposite of what they are aiming at”. Xenophon, in De Re Equestri, (probably written sometime after 394 B.C. during his exile from Athens.)
By Xenophon’s time—around 400 B.C.--bits consisted of a bronze mouthpiece with a center joint, curved cheek pieces and discs; training bits had evil-looking spines designed to discourage the horse from closing their mouths. Throughout history, horses have been ridden in a variety of elaborate bits: the Celts enameled theirs; the Persians made theirs in the shape of horses; a bit attributed to Henry VIII looks (somewhat predictably) like a medieval torture implement.
Native North Americans, famous for their horsemanship, often used rawhide bridles with soft bits or no bit at all. These natives would think nothing of riding into a stampeding herd of 2000 pound buffalos with no hands while using their bows and arrows or spears or going into battle against trained cavalry against horses using severe bits with cannons and gun noise all round. These horses were obviously trained very well and trusted their riders impeccably.
It is said that during the Battle of Waterloo in 1815, the Duke of Wellington’s Royal Scots Grays regiment took the bits off of their horses' bridles to ensure they would not stop during a fearsome charge of what Napoleon Bonaparte later described as their "terrifying gray horses." But what if removing the bit actually provided the Royal Scots with an extra measure of control?
Taking the bit OUT of the horse’s mouth isn’t a new idea—in fact, the first horses were likely domesticated by looping a piece of rope, sinew or leather over their muzzles—around 2,500 B.C. or earlier. Refinements were made to allow this ‘bridle’ to put pressure on the nose and poll.
Western trainers often start a young horse in some type of bitless bridle—usually a bosal--though some may use a halter with reins or straps attached, a hackamore or a sidepull, working up to a snaffle and then a leverage bit as the horse gains experience. Some English trainers begin by lungeing a young horse in a cavesson, then progressing to a rubber snaffle or ‘Happy Mouth’ bit before backing is attempted.
But once a horse’s training is finished, it is expected to accept a metal bit. Traditionally, only horses with dental or other mouth issues (including injuries) would be ridden without one.

Happily, bitless riding is beginning to be accepted as a viable means of controlling and enjoying any horse in any setting.
Check out the testimonials on the Nurtural Horse website to see what others are saying about this amazing way to train your horse without pain.

Circle “X” Invented:
In 2004, Zoe Brooks began developing the Nurtural No-Bit Bridle, which uses a leather circle to keep reins in place plus a grippy noseband to stop slippage. This innovative new design puts pressure primarily on the poll and more subtly on the nose via a thick crownpiece and reins attached to rings on the side of the horse’s face, where the bit rings would normally go.
Though many different types of bitless bridles exist (the US patent office has only 12 designs for bitless bridles on its books) the Nurtural No-bit bridles seem to have emerged as the most workable and popular.

Riders, and now drivers, report turning and stopping is easy, with many of their horse’s bad habits –head tossing, star-gazing, rooting, stumbling, running away—disappearing within a few hours or weeks of getting rid of the bit. More leg and seat is needed, when riding than in a regular bridle, and less hand pressure. Ultimately, a bitless bridle can be harsh or gentle, depending on the rider/driver—just like a bit.


I love mine. Riley was basically trained in it. He will take a bit and has been ridden with one.

Curious what you think

[Range]

My suggestion? Ride him in a bitless bridle - not necessarily the one posted above since there a variety out there. I know DME has a Paso type for one of her mares. Heck, ride him in a halter - nylon or rope.

This sounds kind of evil, but if it's not pain and he's truly thinking the bit and bridle mean work? Well, dang it, you'll ride in a halter then. I don't care what you have on your head, but you WILL be ridden today. Put him in the round pen, put that halter on him and attach two lead ropes to either side if he direct reins, or use the rope halter if he neck reins, and climb on up there. Make him realize that even if he destroys what he sees as the enemy - he's still going to get ridden. Lunging is great and I know you worked his tail off, but he still didn't get ridden and he still "won" by not having to wear the bit.

Don't get frustrated. Realize, I recently had my behind kicked all over my place by a miniature horse!

Plus, if he does have pain in his mouth, the bitless is a way to keep him working until that gets taken care of.

Heck, change it up a bit and take him to the round pen in one halter and then put a different one on to simulate the bridling process. Halters are cheaper and harder to break than a bridle.

[Tippy]

When you get him floated, make sure the vet checks for wolf teeth. I have heard of horses acting like that, then having the wolf teeth taken out and be as good as gold about the bridal. I guess if you had a sore tooth, and some one was trying to stick a bit in your mouth you would probably throw a fit too.

Just a thought

Best of luck

[Smilie]

Hi
Well, first i commend you you ending the lesson on a good note and seeing things through
I do not see the bit as a problem, and I know there are many that think a bitless bridle is the solution. To me, if a horse can't be ridden in a bit, he lacks proper training. At the same time, any well broke horse can be ridden without a bit, or even a bridle. Many bridleless demos are given all th time by reiners and western pleasure trainers. I 've seen the bridle removed and a horse perfroming beautiful cadenced flying lead changes in a western riding pattern, without changing top line or collection
Many junior horses are ridden in a bosel (western ) , but by the time they are senior horses, show rules dictates that they are able to be ridden one handed on a loose rein, off of seat and leg alone, and the indirect rein
Those that seem to see a bit as harsh, or somehow less kind than a bitless bridle, don't grasp the correct concept of teaching a horse correctly in a bit.
No bit will physically control a horse that has not been taught proper response, no more than a horse will stand tied or be led by a halter, were he not conditioned to accept that control and respond correctly
The bitless bridle uses pressure points, so it is just a dfferent form of communication, not better , just different. It is also sort of an English version of the bosel. I ride and show western, thus my horses need to be soft and responsive in a bit-doesn't mean that at any time i can't ride them in a halter around home,but they have the education to be ridden correctly in a bit, with very light (english ), or no bit contact (western ) If a properly trained horse just packs a bit, working off of a loose rein, what difference does having a bit make?
On a green horse that won't accept a bit-it lacks training, and the solution is not to just move on to no bit. Have all dental issues dealt with, for sure-but then teach proper response to a bit.
Does your horse tie? Saddle him tied up, then bridle him. Since he has issues at the moment, bridle him where you have control-a corner , a stall. Leave the halter on uderneath for now, so you have control. You don't need a cavasson at this time. With the halter, you have control of proper head position. Do not allow him to either put his head way in the air or on the ground. The bit goes in the mouth first, then the bridle goes over the ears. Hold the bit in your hand, insert finger in corner of horse;s mouth and gently insert bit. Be careful not to bang teeth. When bit is in mouth, put headstall over ears. When removing bit, make sure you first let the horse drop the bit, and do not bang teeth. If teeth are banged , ahorse can get difficult to bridle
Try not to p;lace human emotions onto your horse. One can love a horse and a horse can return affection in his own way, but first must come trust and respect. Being in tears, you are taking the actions of your horse too personal, when he is just being a horse, and sorry, but to me he sounds a bit spoiled.
Many great horsemen love their horses and will shed a tear when that horse dies, but first that horse has always worked for them out of respect. They also bit their horses, but certainly have the training on them so that they can be ridden without a bit, or even without a headstall.
Those that say their horse prefers no bit, or won;t work in a bit, I suspect that horse was never properly trained or ridden in a bit. My horses drop their head, open their mouth to be bridled, and work on a loose rein, with a closed, quiet and happy mouth. I have the bit ther if needed-sort of like having brakes on a car, although most of the time you don;t touch them
If I'm riding down a trail and suddenly happen across a grizzy, I sure like a bit in the mouth of my horse-and feel more capable of directing out flight down a narrow trail. That's just me. I also know I can get more finesse on a finished reiner or western pleasure horse with a suitable bit-to the point that horse can perform all those manovers without one
Bottom line-read or watch some videos on proper bitting of a horse in a progressive training program. Get respect,,, don't take your horse;s actions personal, do dental work and teach that horse how to be bridled correctly each and every time, so it becomes ingrained , just like tying, leading haltering etc.
With the halter and leadshank, make your horse understand the proper position for bering bridled and accept nothing less. When you go to the ground or into the air in an attempt to bridle him, you are letting him take charge and dictate the conditions-then total avoidence is just an escalation, not a personal assault on the bridle.

[Range]

Smilie wrote:

To me, if a horse can't be ridden in a bit, he lacks proper training

.

I am going to disagree with you here. There are many horses that CANNOT be ridden with a bit for other reasons than lack of training. Parrot mouth and abused mouths come to mind at first.

[NoniMe]

Good morning.

A few comments to clarify my first post.

When the bitless bridle was mentioned earlier, I looked into it. The difficulty arises in that I'm not a very good rider yet...so the leg and seat aids are nearly non-existent. And I am not heavy handed (as far as I can tell...), and I do work hard to keep the reins loose and have even done some reinless riding (while he's on a lunge line; once, though, without the lunge line). You need to be a better rider than I am to get the bitless bridle to work, from what I understand, so...at this point, it's not possible if I'm going to ride him at all.

For three weeks now, he's been ridden beautifully and worked incredibly willingly under Sharon and me (after Sharon has gotten his yee haws out via the cantering and the controlled trotting...when I get on him, he's already been worked for about an hour). He has been turned out before hand, although not lunged necessarily.

I am taking it personally, and I don't quite know how to not take it personally. What I mean is that I know he'd've given grief to whomever was working him last night...so I guess I'm taking it personally because I'm human and didn't expect it, and wanted it to be different. And couldn't get him to behave the way he's been behaving lately. Sigh. It bothers me - I changed nothing, but his behavior was completely unexpected and without cause.

The friend watching was a lady who is a very accomplished rider, who has two show/expensive horses she's working with up at the barn. She's a dear one, and was not watching to be critical, just because she was done and I brought Tango out. She was curious to see him move (and did she ever!!!), as she shows and has told me he's gorgeous sitting in his stall. So she was just there, rather than there because I asked her to be. Does that make sense?

Tango does have the training. He has the ability, he has the willingness, he has the attitude for work. He just didn't want to last night...and I wasn't even going to ride him; just work him a bit tacked up. We never got that far.

He will be floated next Wednesday...I had to postpone it because of the cost, but it can't be postponed again...I need to rule out the pain aspect, so we can just do the whole attitude adjustment thing.

Yes, he's spoiled...but not ruined. Yes, I love my horse, and yes, he will get treats, and he will get loved on and cuddled and played with. But he also works hard...when he decides to work.

More in the next post...

Best-
Noni

[ToveroMom]

It will come eventually if you keep working with him and your trainer.
We all hit those speedbumps in the road when we were learning.
Try not to dwell too much on the bad and just keep plugging along.

[NoniMe]

Originally Posted by Range

This sounds kind of evil, but if it's not pain and he's truly thinking the bit and bridle mean work? Well, dang it, you'll ride in a halter then. I don't care what you have on your head, but you WILL be ridden today. Put him in the round pen, put that halter on him and attach two lead ropes to either side if he direct reins, or use the rope halter if he neck reins, and climb on up there. Make him realize that even if he destroys what he sees as the enemy - he's still going to get ridden. Lunging is great and I know you worked his tail off, but he still didn't get ridden and he still "won" by not having to wear the bit.

Yes, he does think that the bridle means work...he really does. I like the idea of attaching two lead ropes and working him that way...if need be, I will have that in my arsenal now. Thanks.

But just to clarify, he ended up in the bit - I borrowed a bridle from my friend, got him into it (as sweetly as you please, thank you...), and we walked around for cool off with him in it. The reason I didn't do it before lunging him was that I didn't want to risk having to buy a second bridle...as it is, it will be hard enough to buy ONE at the moment.

And that's also the general reason I don't tack him up saddle first...because if he rolls and/or decides to go after my saddle, that I can't replace at all for a while. So that would be the big win...a bridle will be expensive enough...replacing a saddle is out of my reach at the moment.

Heck, change it up a bit and take him to the round pen in one halter and then put a different one on to simulate the bridling process. Halters are cheaper and harder to break than a bridle.

He's broken a halter, too...snapped it apart during a tying lesson. Nonetheless, that's a good idea. I can pay $15 for a new halter faster than I can pay $75-125 for a bridle.

Best-
Noni

[Pasodeb]

I'd just like to point out what a good friend you have loaning you her bridle after knowing what he did to yours.

[NoniMe]

Originally Posted by version1955

Nothing you've written indicates that you are doing anything wrong, nor for that matter is Tango doing any thing wrong. He's testing you. You described it all, you know that that is what he is doing. For whatever reason... or no reason... or reasons only Tango knows. Tango is simply being Tango and you, as it seems to me, are responding appropriately.

Thanks...I know he's testing me...but I just don't want to be tested like this, you know? Rueful laugh. Test me all you want, but on new things, not on stuff I'd thought we had relatively conquered.

I don't know a lot about you and Tango and what you've done, but it seems to me that you might want to consider backing way up in what kind of training you are expecting him to be good at.

Back up in your training. Very small stuff, halter and leading, right, left, whoa. Not at freedom in the round pen but you and him and a halter. Until he accepts the halter and your cues/commands/requests I wouldn't even consider tacking him up as if you are going to ride him.

He takes the halter perfectly...even tries to put it on himself.

I would get as him to respond to the smallest of cues.

I expect my horses to come up to me from the pastures into the corral when I come in there and call/whistle.

I expect my horses to stand still once I've draped the lead line of the halter over the back of their neck. And remain standing still as I put on the halter.

Does that. The only movement is his muzzle, to slip it into the halter and to 'help' me get it on.

I expect them to walk forward if I say "lead" and/or I lead off on my right foot. If I don't say "lead" and lead off on my left foot they are to stand still.

He does walk when I walk...we're working on the "stay" aspect of things, but we're making good progress.

When I walk my horses on the halter I expect them to be paying attention to me and only me, barring a bird flying up right in front of us, like that. Their head will be slightly turned toward me and their lovely, soft left eye is looking into mine.

Does that all the time perfectly...even when we are walking outside the barn in the hills. He pays perfect attention to me, unless a peacock struts...and even then, he just follows it with his face. We've even had birds flee the bush right next to Tango, and he doesn't even flinch.

We do stop and goes - where we're walking and I stop without telling him whoa. He stops right next to me, and then backs up one single step so that his jaw is in line with my shoulder. If I step back, he takes a step back, too...all without a verbal command (i.e. he has to be paying close attention to me, cause sometimes I step very small). He responds just fine with verbal, so the nonverbals is to make sure he's watching and not just listening. I change it up, too, so sometimes it's with words, sometimes just stopping.

He turns as asked...just a point towards his haunch and he goes 'round. A touch to both his shoulder and haunch means side step, and he does that fine. A touch to his shoulder and he moves that out of my way.

If he's facing me, and I step forward, he backs up. If I back, he steps forward when I say come. I haven't gotten him to stay back more than 6 feet or so when I haven't said come, but again, we're working on that. If I step off to the side, he won't move, but his head follows me. If I step farther to the side, he will swing around so that he's perpendicular to me, and if I step further, he assumes the position at my shoulder.

I can lay his lead rope across his neck and shoulders, and he'll still do this stuff...even when not in the round pen (although we don't do this a lot...).

He follows me over jumps both on the lead line as well as free jumping. He navigates cones following me.

Bear in mind that when I got him May 23, he didn't do any of this...so we've made huge progress on the ground. Most of the rewards for this learning has been loving and rubbing and neck massages, but the occasional treat too (usually the first few times he accomplishes something...once I know he's confident doing it, it's only lovin' as the reward).

All four feet can be picked up...in random order, however I ask him to. He lets me fiddle with his ears, tail, and I can get my fingers into his mouth without him biting me.

He's NOT good at tying. I am going to start really concentrating on that, for a few reasons...mostly for safety. And he loads with hesitation, too. But that's not a big problem for right now...

So if anyone has anything else for ground work that I'm not working on, please tell me...so we can work on it. I have no hesitation on working him with ground stuff.

Best-
Noni

[NoniMe]

Originally Posted by Pasodeb

I'd just like to point out what a good friend you have loaning you her bridle after knowing what he did to yours.

She is a dear. She told me later that she loves Tango, loves the fact that he has 'character' and a mind of his own. I told her she could have him. LOL. And she told me I did everything right, including pushing his happy bum all over the round pen and not letting him get away with anything in there.

At one point, Tango bucked at me - he had taken quite a few steps off me, and once he knew I was clear of him, he just flicked both hinds at me. I told him "deleted you, too" and kept after him. She laughed about that...told me we were having a lover's spat.

Tango really needs a strong leader. I can be that, but I don't know how to do it effectively when this sort of thing crops up. He needs to be worked through it, and all I know is lunging him and pushing him and making him realize he's working whether or not he's got a bit in his mouth...

Best-
Noni