Waiting On The Lope...

[eieio]

I will get some pictures tomorrow if I have some light but Cheyenne has big step tonight. After being here with me for 42 days. After spending two weeks to get her to stop trying to launch me over the moon. Her first horse show this last weekend (pretty successful) and all else that has gone on....I loped Cheyenne for the first time tonight....

Surprised?

Most people would be, especially around here. Why bother to haul her to a horseshow, if she has not been loped?

Because...Loping is the hardest gait for a green horse to do safely. Most other trainers in this area have them loping within the first three rides. Why did we wait until she had collection, frame, backs, turns off forehand and haunches, started trail class work and is trotting crossrails?

Because, when you ask for the first lope and they drift onto a round circle, stay in the bridle and listen to your leg on the first lope. You know you waited for the right reason. When you sit down on her and say a soft "Whoa" and pick the rein up an a fraction of an inch and she gives you a 5 foot sliding stop...you waited for good reason. When you hold the rein pressure and she gives you 10 back steps without raising her nose and then 180's...you waited for the best reason.

Now, 10 loping circles...does not make a collected lope. It does though make a safe way of an exciteable horse being cantered in control.

I just posted this because I sometimes feel people put too much emphasis on the lope, too early. That is how riders and young horses get hurt....

So now my question....Am I too careful? My riding buddies tonight said I should of loped her 5 rides ago...I disagreed!

[AlbertaGirl]

Cool eieio! I think you were right to wait, and I agree that there is no need to rush it! I've only started a few horses without the help/supervision of a trainer, and I like to wait until I feel comfortable too. If they don't have everything else - brakes, steering, collection, reverse, etc - down at a walk and a trot, why go faster?

[Gallamist]

Nope your not to careful!

I would rather have a well trained green horse that is balanced in the walk/trot before asking for an unbalanced canter...good seat on the rider or not.

When I started my 2yr old stallion under saddle I only did walk/trot with him for a looong time.....then when I asked for the canter/lope he picked it up quickly with the correct leads and without bucking...heheh

Good Job eieio!!!

[gbarmranch]

Love it - lope is the last gait we teach also - all of the other things must be in place first... She is doing so well for you - I can not imagine what would happen to that poor horse if she had gone to someone else..

[KatieMae]

I disagree with your buddies, too, eieio. The horse I broke this spring had been worked with for 60 days. And still never cantered him. When our training contract ended, he still had not cantered. Why? Because if I didn't feel he was ready, then he wasn't. Nowhere in the contract did it say "I want him to be a training level dressage horse in 60 days" or "Make him a hunter under saddle in 60 days, able to w/t/c"... Therefore, I stuck with what he was comfortable with, which was w/t. I have the same way of thinking as you. Don't push them. Teach them safely, and smartly. Besides, I've always, always, ALWAYS been told "Teach collection at walk and trot, before you ever take the first stride at the canter."

Good job!

[barnmom]

Awesome, you made it a good experience for the horse instead of it being scary, the horse was sure of what you wanted and gave it to you.

That's why we are waiting for Gracie, longer than anyone thinks we should but we want good and solid on the lunge first, no hesitation with good strong transitions, it's coming along but I don't think she's ready yet.

Once again great job!

[Range]

Please! I have a 4 year old green broke mare, though getting less and less green. I lope her maybe once a week and then not around corners yet. She's not very balanced and the lope gets her extremely excited - too excited, truth be told. Since I don't need to lope for any particular reason other than training, I just take my time with it.

[eieio]

Well, I am glad you guys agree...Everyone here did not understand.!


We will definately be loping at the next show.....she was so wonderful. She is really well balanced naturally and she did not get in the least bit excited. She is really turning into one fine mare.

I got on her last night and she went on off in the best jog...I kept wondering, if we forgot to pack the jog at the show?

I also think it helps that they are muscled up enough to carry themselves when you start the lope.

[doyle82]

I wish people would understand that this also applies to a horse that is older and out of shape.
I had someone ask me how to get their horse to lope (he's a 15 yr old been there, done that, ex reiner who has some reining points on him as a youngster, then was a childs lesson horse and fox hunting pony for a few years before a stifle injury sidelined him)
I flat out told them that he was just coming back from a lay off due to injury and should only be walk/jog until he builds up muscle tone again and is balanced.
This horse is not physically able to lope right now. He can do a quick canter but he runs into it and its not pretty to watch or ride.
I tried to explain this to them and what to do to help bring him back slowly but they just gallop him around like they know what they're doing and I'm an idiot.

[Eagles Nest]

Good for you EIEIO! Stick to your guns, you're the one working her!

We don't lope/canter until the horse does it on their own (under saddle, and no, I don't mean just runing off, lol), then we start to work on it...They usually will break into a canter about 90 days into their training....but then I know we're slower than some....

[KatieMae]

She sounds like she's a very hopeful prospect, eieio.. You're doing a great job, and the right thing by taking her training slow.

How about Slide, eh? How's his canter??

[eieio]

Well TB's can be a little different. Cantering is as natural to them as breathing and they tend to canter off pretty early in training. Slide's canter is like a sitting on a dream. All the power from the rear.....

[KatieMae]

Originally Posted by eieio

Well TB's can be a little different. Cantering is as natural to them as breathing and they tend to canter off pretty early in training. Slide's canter is like a sitting on a dream. All the power from the rear.....

(((Swoon))) My kinda horse... Time to start saving my loose change!

[tuffsmom]

We don't lope until they are ready. We also teach them to canter in lines first before we get on their back.

[Smilie]

Hi Your approach is one most pleasure horse trainers use, and one I also now have been using for years. Get all the body control first so you can set them up correctly for the lope, with correct transititions (in frame from the start.)
Many reining trainers that i know, who also produce very broke and responsive horses have a different training pylosophy. They teach foreward first, and then work on collection, having the horse loping during the first week.
In fact, this spring I was looking for someone to put the first month on a five year old pleasure bred mare for me. I used to start all my own horses, but at age 60 and two bad knees I now like someone else that I trust to put those first rides on. The mare was started late because as a three year old I had to sustitute her for a re-breeding by transported semen, for her mom who lost the pregnancy at 9months, and the vet thought could no longer carry to term-hense the delay in her training program. Charlie is a big mare ,16hh
All the pleasure horse trainers I know take horses for a minium of 60 days. Since she is a sensible mare, and past futurity age, i only wanted a month on her. A local reining trainer took her. She put no face on the mare,or collection, but she was doing all gaits at the end of the month, large very fast circles and hugh trots. She waits until the second month to put on the start of collection. The program works for her purpose as she turns out good reiners.
I just feel I need some face and collection-so I took her back to the round pen and worked on body control at the trot and walk for a month, then moved to my outdoor arena and continued mostly trotting and walking, collected, sidepass, turn on haunches, turn on forehand-we are just now starting to lope as i don't have time to work with her more than three days a week-but I have control
I don't show a horse until they are working very correct at home, and I've hauled them to a few different arenas.If a horse isn;t solid at all gaits and transitions, then why expose them to a show scene?
I might take them to a light horse schooling show first, but when I haul to a breed show, I show to win.
So yes, your method is a proven one and not actual new or different. Read either Doug carpenter or Steve Heckaman and they follow a program similar to you.
Equally successful reining and working cowhorse trainers follow a different program, which they feel produces a more competive horse for their discipline. Ever see a reiner lunge a horse in the warmup? Neither is right or wrong. I do believe that for the average rider and for a pleasure horse program the method of teaching body control and collection at the slower gaits,is the better choice.In fact most teach the frame on the lunge line by bitting a horse, then just add true collection with the addition of leg, once they are riding.
Most young pleasure horses are lunged first at shows, because one wants them quiet and ready to work once one gets on to ride, never needing to get into their mouth or into a batttle on their backs Young pleasure horses are not only expected to perform correctly, but to do so with a calm attitude on a loose rein.
Other events need percise control, but with more gas and less epathisis on quiet-another reason for the different ways of training.

[eieio]

Well, I took her to the open show about thirty miles down the road. Great first pen. This mare had some major spook/attitude issues. Horseshows are one of the easiest ways to test where you are really at....

Winning is nice....Finding Out Where you are at.....Priceless!

[Lady_MCSE]

I have no idea about training - but this is exactly how I felt when riding and trying to get "back into" riding after years of marshmallowieness. I felt like I personally had a lot of body conditioning and balancing to do at the walk and trot before I should be cantering. Cantering is so much fun, I really love it! But I knew I needed to stay away from it for quite some time while getting back into shape (i.e. learning, which is what a young horse is doing).

[Smilie]

Hi Eieio
I agree that open shows are a great place to get a horse seasoned. I just prefer to have them solid at all gaits first., including the lope I do like to haul a young horse along with another horse going to clinics. I just tie the young horse during the clinic, letting him see all the sights, and then ride him during the noon break
Did you just ride the horse around during breaks and warmup, or did you actually show the horse? If a horse is not ready to show, putting him into a class can just be another stress. I want tto be able to rate the speed of the lope on a loose rein, so right from the start the horse ignors other horses passing and focuses on me-ingraining good habits. You can;t have that after only loping circles a few times. Just my opinion.
Anyway, sounds like you have a basic good program to bring a young horse along, similar to mine, I do take them to open shows so I can school them if nessisary. In that case, if a horse tries to cheat me, I correct him, so he understands that the same rules apply in the show ring as at home, and don't worry about placing,

[ricoman]

Thank you for explaining the rational behind waiting to canter until you had control of walk, trot, steering, etc. I can not tell you how many times I need to tell a client that their horse is not ready to canter after just 3 rides. I bought my Axel, at 3 years old and he had been started by someone else. They had cantered him within the first 2 rides and was not concerned about him crow-hopping. I'm sorry, a 17h horse that crow-hops is like a normal sized horse bucking. It took me until this year, he's now 5, to start cantering him and it went real well, easy and no issues. He's balanced and strong enough so canter is easy.