Four beating, or a slow lope?

Krista · 07-01-2007, 06:07 AM

Hi everyone

I was hoping I could ask for your opinions about my mare. Her lope has always been a work in progress, pretty much. I thought we were making a pretty big breakthrough in the last month or so, she's going along much slower and much more relaxed (she always had a habit of four beating and getting very uptight) However, I've had people tell me that she is still four beating. I'll admit, she could use her hind end alot better, but to me she feels like she's finally relaxed and doing a three beat lope. Have I totally lost my mind? Is she still four beating, and I just can't see it?

These are the before videos. They were taken last year while she was still in her four beating phase.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...t=MVI_0020.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ug19-06039.flv

And these are the recent videos. They were taken last week. These are the videos where some are still seeing that four beat lope (although some aren't, that's where I'm confused)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ne17-07043.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ne17-07038.flv

Thanks for your time! I really appreciate it

ricoman · 07-01-2007, 10:19 PM

She doesn't look too bad!! Ask her to speed up and then slow down, transition from trot to canter and back to trot. She needs to be very strong in her back and rearend to canter properly that slow. You've almost got it but remember not to ask her to go real slow for more then a couple of strides and then let her go more forward before asking to slow down again.

Lots of transitions will help shift her weight to her rearend to strengthen it for a proper 3 beat canter.

You can also spiral your circle in, making sure to not let her bend her head too much to the inside, and then spiral back out, using your inside leg and keeping your hands quiet.

Nynx · 07-01-2007, 10:29 PM

It looks like four beats to me, but seriously I know nothing about that. If it doesn't unbalance her and you're not showing anytime soon I bet consistant work and maybe some rear end work outs would get her to a more regular 3 beat lope. My goofy horse is super horrible about his right lead and to get him to do it he has to go super fast. This is because he's lacking the muscle he needs to to a right lead correctly right now, so it could be your mare just needs a lotta practice and conditioning to get her where you want her.

But I have to mention that you have a GORGEOUS horse on your hands. I sorta want a black horse now...

repetesis · 07-01-2007, 10:56 PM

Yep, she is four beating still! Like rico says strenghten her back and hind in and don't force her slow so long. Lots of transitions. Rico is using the half halts to bring her back on her hind end. Good luck she is a very pretty mare.

Eagles Nest · 07-03-2007, 12:47 PM

Actually, I dissagree a little..She is three beating but then she falls into a four-beat when she's turned a little tighter. This is because it is harder in her turns...While you are on a circle, in the second video it looks like she picks up the four beat just a bit as she is leaving the camera...

If you watch closely, she picks up and lands her inside hind and her outside front simultaneously...This means it is a true three beat canter. In order to four-beat she must have all four feet striking the ground at a different time...Also, I watch the rider, if a horse is four beating the rider and the viewer should know...There is a distict one, two, three that you feel, whether slow or fast. You look to me like you are riding a three-beat, over to one side, forward then back, over to one side forward then back, etc.

While she is doing a true "lope" most of the video, I think it looks like a four-beat because she really labors along to do it this slow. That will come with strength, we hope...Some horses just learn that habit and that's how they do it...Same with the four-beat. usually they four-beat because it is easier to go that slow in a four-beat and because they are heavy on the forehand...

hth...

Eagles Nest · 07-03-2007, 12:58 PM

also wanted to add: I didn't watch your first video until now, and she is much improved. While she has a ways to go, congratulations on the progress you've made. You can see in the earlier videos how you do an extra bump, it is pretty noticable, but when you're watching her feet you have to be careful to see it, she is just ahead of that outside front with her inside hind, by about a half a second, but it is there...good job.

calicocalgirl · 07-03-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagles Nest

Actually, I dissagree a little..She is three beating but then she falls into a four-beat when she's turned a little tighter. This is because it is harder in her turns...While you are on a circle, in the second video it looks like she picks up the four beat just a bit as she is leaving the camera...

If you watch closely, she picks up and lands her inside hind and her outside front simultaneously...This means it is a true three beat canter. In order to four-beat she must have all four feet striking the ground at a different time...Also, I watch the rider, if a horse is four beating the rider and the viewer should know...There is a distict one, two, three that you feel, whether slow or fast. You look to me like you are riding a three-beat, over to one side, forward then back, over to one side forward then back, etc.

While she is doing a true "lope" most of the video, I think it looks like a four-beat because she really labors along to do it this slow. That will come with strength, we hope...Some horses just learn that habit and that's how they do it...Same with the four-beat. usually they four-beat because it is easier to go that slow in a four-beat and because they are heavy on the forehand...

hth...

I agree here.. while it is sometimes hard to tell, to me she does look like she has 3 beats. I kept counting and that's what I see. But she doesn't do a smooth 3 beat, as said above, she is laboring to go that slow. And she does fall into a 4 beat. In my opinion , I don't like the pitter patter 4 beat stuff at all. I would let her move more natural. Even as she comes down to the jog, she kinda falls apart. She needs a good bit of transition work especially and just letting her find herself to strengthen her back.

Krista · 07-03-2007, 06:25 PM

Thank you so much for your input, everyone! I've watched these videos over and over again, and now realize that she isn't going quite as good as I thought she was

I'll make sure to work on transitions whenever I get to ride next, right now she's a little sore

I'm really hoping it's nothing serious, as she has never taken a lame step in the 13 years I've had her. I'm probably worrying over nothing though

Thanks again everyone! I really appreciate the feedback!

ticericer · 07-03-2007, 10:23 PM

I can definetely see an improvement in her gait. Its still not a very smooth looking 3 beat lope, but not as bad as it used to be. I know it might sound bad but, you might consider speeding her up just a little to show her what it needs to be and then slowing her back down. A slow lope takes much more muscle and control than a fast canter. Don't give up, she's doing better. I hope her lameness works out to be nothing. Keep up the good work!

Sirita_88 · 07-03-2007, 10:41 PM

She is definately doing a 3-beat gait. The trick is to just watch the diagonal that moves together cuz her inside front and outside hind are supposed to be seperate beats. Just focus on the diagonal they are moving togather. I think every once in awhile your horse may not exactly have the diagonal footfalls at the same instant but I don't think it's that noticeable. I think the probelm is she tracks narrow and it appears that her 1st beat is in the diagonal because the legs are all black, but it really isn't!!! It is 3 beat, my final answer.

lol I only watched the first way. The second way she does fall in a 4 beat sometimes. Besides speeding her up work on yeilding at the canter, it may make her think that 3 beating is easier as legs don't get in the way (bad at explaining)

Morwen · 07-03-2007, 10:42 PM

I'm always so bad at telling... it looked like four beats to me though.

Sirita_88 · 07-03-2007, 11:05 PM

I just picked something else out, too I will try my best to explain....
She is really 4 beating when you turn her. And I haven't really observed too much so I could be wrong, but this is what I see. Her body/nose is tipping too far in (why would that be bad you may ask? bending is good!!) when she turns, this is causing her to lose her balance and thus creates a 4-beat...

Now, I will try my best to explain why this is happening. A canter is called a canter because a horse must be Canted to move in a straight line. This is how you force a horse to pick up the correct lead, if you force a horse to move is nose outside towards the rail the horse must pick up the correct lead to be balanced. So even though you want a bend to the inside when you canter it is really hard to do, that's why wp horses always have their butt stuck inside and their head out moving diagonally down the rail.

Anyways, my point is try letting her nose tip out around a circle, see if that helps. It may not be the most proper but it's wayy better than 4-beating when you're being judged.

Smilie · 07-04-2007, 10:09 AM

Hi
I haven't got video capacities on this computor, being stuck in the ancient land of dial up, so will comment in general on western pleasure lope
First-a true lope is required, meaning a three beat lope. A four beat lope is an untrue gait is is supposed to be cause for disqualification in todays standards
Some useful suggestions have been given on how to establish a slow true beat lope, but a very important element has been ommitted. You need shoulder elevation, and western pleasure training programs are geared around this fact There are many excercises to teach this, including jogging and loping sqaures and jogging and loping over ground poles. THe word canter is an English term-the correct one for western is lope
Actually the reason many western pleasure horses were loped down the rail with the hip noticibly pushed to the inside, was a method to slow the lope down as the horse must reach further under him. It is a fault when horses are travelling crooked down the rail and will be marked down.
It is not difficult for a horse to travel correctly in a circle at the lope with nose slightly to the inside. If a horse has difficulity, he has dropped his inside shoulder.
To slow the lope, one needs the horse to develope self carriage. he must drive from behind, lift back and keep shoulders up. This requires a great deal of collection. At first you must support with rein as you drive the horse up , and keep shoulders up at the same time. You reward by releasing rein pressure. If the horse speeds up, he has quit driving as deep under himself-so you repeat the holding and driving. The horse will learn to carry himself for more and more strides
Transititions are important. If the lead departure and first stride isn't right-you have already lost the next strides. You only need to lope a half circle at first-stop, back up a step, do a turn on the forehand and lope off again from a standstill or walk, without allowing the horse to change his top line or lose frame. He must lope off by lifting shoulder and stepping under himself from the rear, not by elevating head or neck

exes Blue Eyed Devil · 07-09-2007, 12:42 PM

Actually, your horse isn't four beating, she just is very quick legged right now, she looks better than she did, though. she will probably never be a really slow-legged horse, because she doesn't seem to hold her ground very well, but consistency counts for something, and as long as she has a level, topline and isnt racing around, you could do very well at open shows.

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07-01-2007, 06:07 AM
Krista Halter broke Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Prince Edward Island Posts: 173	Four beating, or a slow lope? Hi everyone I was hoping I could ask for your opinions about my mare. Her lope has always been a work in progress, pretty much. I thought we were making a pretty big breakthrough in the last month or so, she's going along much slower and much more relaxed (she always had a habit of four beating and getting very uptight) However, I've had people tell me that she is still four beating. I'll admit, she could use her hind end alot better, but to me she feels like she's finally relaxed and doing a three beat lope. Have I totally lost my mind? Is she still four beating, and I just can't see it? These are the before videos. They were taken last year while she was still in her four beating phase. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...t=MVI_0020.flv http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ug19-06039.flv And these are the recent videos. They were taken last week. These are the videos where some are still seeing that four beat lope (although some aren't, that's where I'm confused) http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ne17-07043.flv http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ne17-07038.flv Thanks for your time! I really appreciate it

07-01-2007, 10:19 PM
ricoman Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 440	She doesn't look too bad!! Ask her to speed up and then slow down, transition from trot to canter and back to trot. She needs to be very strong in her back and rearend to canter properly that slow. You've almost got it but remember not to ask her to go real slow for more then a couple of strides and then let her go more forward before asking to slow down again. Lots of transitions will help shift her weight to her rearend to strengthen it for a proper 3 beat canter. You can also spiral your circle in, making sure to not let her bend her head too much to the inside, and then spiral back out, using your inside leg and keeping your hands quiet. __________________ Resistance is Futile

07-01-2007, 10:29 PM
Nynx Yearling Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 600	It looks like four beats to me, but seriously I know nothing about that. If it doesn't unbalance her and you're not showing anytime soon I bet consistant work and maybe some rear end work outs would get her to a more regular 3 beat lope. My goofy horse is super horrible about his right lead and to get him to do it he has to go super fast. This is because he's lacking the muscle he needs to to a right lead correctly right now, so it could be your mare just needs a lotta practice and conditioning to get her where you want her. But I have to mention that you have a GORGEOUS horse on your hands. I sorta want a black horse now... __________________ ~:>

07-01-2007, 10:56 PM
repetesis Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sicamous, BC Posts: 665	Yep, she is four beating still! Like rico says strenghten her back and hind in and don't force her slow so long. Lots of transitions. Rico is using the half halts to bring her back on her hind end. Good luck she is a very pretty mare. __________________ ~~Delia~~ The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~Elenore Roosevelt~

07-03-2007, 12:47 PM
Eagles Nest Long Yearling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,021	Actually, I dissagree a little..She is three beating but then she falls into a four-beat when she's turned a little tighter. This is because it is harder in her turns...While you are on a circle, in the second video it looks like she picks up the four beat just a bit as she is leaving the camera... If you watch closely, she picks up and lands her inside hind and her outside front simultaneously...This means it is a true three beat canter. In order to four-beat she must have all four feet striking the ground at a different time...Also, I watch the rider, if a horse is four beating the rider and the viewer should know...There is a distict one, two, three that you feel, whether slow or fast. You look to me like you are riding a three-beat, over to one side, forward then back, over to one side forward then back, etc. While she is doing a true "lope" most of the video, I think it looks like a four-beat because she really labors along to do it this slow. That will come with strength, we hope...Some horses just learn that habit and that's how they do it...Same with the four-beat. usually they four-beat because it is easier to go that slow in a four-beat and because they are heavy on the forehand... hth... __________________ You earn your blue ribbons at home, you just pick them up at shows! Last edited by Eagles Nest : 07-03-2007 at 12:53 PM.

07-03-2007, 12:58 PM
Eagles Nest Long Yearling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,021	also wanted to add: I didn't watch your first video until now, and she is much improved. While she has a ways to go, congratulations on the progress you've made. You can see in the earlier videos how you do an extra bump, it is pretty noticable, but when you're watching her feet you have to be careful to see it, she is just ahead of that outside front with her inside hind, by about a half a second, but it is there...good job. __________________ You earn your blue ribbons at home, you just pick them up at shows!

07-03-2007, 06:25 PM
Krista Halter broke Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Prince Edward Island Posts: 173	Thank you so much for your input, everyone! I've watched these videos over and over again, and now realize that she isn't going quite as good as I thought she was I'll make sure to work on transitions whenever I get to ride next, right now she's a little sore I'm really hoping it's nothing serious, as she has never taken a lame step in the 13 years I've had her. I'm probably worrying over nothing though Thanks again everyone! I really appreciate the feedback!

07-03-2007, 10:23 PM
ticericer Newborn Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NY Posts: 12	I can definetely see an improvement in her gait. Its still not a very smooth looking 3 beat lope, but not as bad as it used to be. I know it might sound bad but, you might consider speeding her up just a little to show her what it needs to be and then slowing her back down. A slow lope takes much more muscle and control than a fast canter. Don't give up, she's doing better. I hope her lameness works out to be nothing. Keep up the good work!

07-03-2007, 10:41 PM
Sirita_88 Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mt. Juliet, Tennessee Posts: 1,391	She is definately doing a 3-beat gait. The trick is to just watch the diagonal that moves together cuz her inside front and outside hind are supposed to be seperate beats. Just focus on the diagonal they are moving togather. I think every once in awhile your horse may not exactly have the diagonal footfalls at the same instant but I don't think it's that noticeable. I think the probelm is she tracks narrow and it appears that her 1st beat is in the diagonal because the legs are all black, but it really isn't!!! It is 3 beat, my final answer. lol I only watched the first way. The second way she does fall in a 4 beat sometimes. Besides speeding her up work on yeilding at the canter, it may make her think that 3 beating is easier as legs don't get in the way (bad at explaining) __________________ Paradise Performance Horses. http://www.freewebs.com/paradiseperformance/index.htm Last edited by Sirita_88 : 07-03-2007 at 10:47 PM.

07-03-2007, 10:42 PM
Morwen Weanling Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 223	I'm always so bad at telling... it looked like four beats to me though.

07-03-2007, 11:05 PM
Sirita_88 Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mt. Juliet, Tennessee Posts: 1,391	I just picked something else out, too I will try my best to explain.... She is really 4 beating when you turn her. And I haven't really observed too much so I could be wrong, but this is what I see. Her body/nose is tipping too far in (why would that be bad you may ask? bending is good!!) when she turns, this is causing her to lose her balance and thus creates a 4-beat... Now, I will try my best to explain why this is happening. A canter is called a canter because a horse must be Canted to move in a straight line. This is how you force a horse to pick up the correct lead, if you force a horse to move is nose outside towards the rail the horse must pick up the correct lead to be balanced. So even though you want a bend to the inside when you canter it is really hard to do, that's why wp horses always have their butt stuck inside and their head out moving diagonally down the rail. Anyways, my point is try letting her nose tip out around a circle, see if that helps. It may not be the most proper but it's wayy better than 4-beating when you're being judged. __________________ Paradise Performance Horses. http://www.freewebs.com/paradiseperformance/index.htm

07-04-2007, 10:09 AM
Smilie Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta canada Posts: 195	Hi I haven't got video capacities on this computor, being stuck in the ancient land of dial up, so will comment in general on western pleasure lope First-a true lope is required, meaning a three beat lope. A four beat lope is an untrue gait is is supposed to be cause for disqualification in todays standards Some useful suggestions have been given on how to establish a slow true beat lope, but a very important element has been ommitted. You need shoulder elevation, and western pleasure training programs are geared around this fact There are many excercises to teach this, including jogging and loping sqaures and jogging and loping over ground poles. THe word canter is an English term-the correct one for western is lope Actually the reason many western pleasure horses were loped down the rail with the hip noticibly pushed to the inside, was a method to slow the lope down as the horse must reach further under him. It is a fault when horses are travelling crooked down the rail and will be marked down. It is not difficult for a horse to travel correctly in a circle at the lope with nose slightly to the inside. If a horse has difficulity, he has dropped his inside shoulder. To slow the lope, one needs the horse to develope self carriage. he must drive from behind, lift back and keep shoulders up. This requires a great deal of collection. At first you must support with rein as you drive the horse up , and keep shoulders up at the same time. You reward by releasing rein pressure. If the horse speeds up, he has quit driving as deep under himself-so you repeat the holding and driving. The horse will learn to carry himself for more and more strides Transititions are important. If the lead departure and first stride isn't right-you have already lost the next strides. You only need to lope a half circle at first-stop, back up a step, do a turn on the forehand and lope off again from a standstill or walk, without allowing the horse to change his top line or lose frame. He must lope off by lifting shoulder and stepping under himself from the rear, not by elevating head or neck __________________ Great horses are born, not made, we only put on the refinement

07-09-2007, 12:42 PM
exes Blue Eyed Devil Newborn Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6	Actually, your horse isn't four beating, she just is very quick legged right now, she looks better than she did, though. she will probably never be a really slow-legged horse, because she doesn't seem to hold her ground very well, but consistency counts for something, and as long as she has a level, topline and isnt racing around, you could do very well at open shows.