Help--Cantering on Left Lead but picking up Right Lead

love2ride · 04-09-2007, 09:10 AM

Hi, I am new to posting on Horsetopia but have been skulking for the past while. I must commend everyone for being very helpful and courteous to fellow posters. Sorry this this long, but would appreciate any advice.

I am currently leasing/partboarding a Clydesdale, named appropriately Clyde, who has for the most part been a pasture ornament for the past couple of years or so. Myself and a friend have started to ride him and bring him back into shape for the past 2 or 3 months or thereabouts. We ride him approximately 4 times a week between us, other than us no one else currently rides him (the barn is a lesson barn only, without boarders, where the owners own all the horses and do not sell them). We really enjoy riding him as he has a great attitute and is very willing to do what is asked of him and he is a very fun ride.

The problem we are having is that although he picks up transition cues very easily and transitions well from either the walk or trot into the canter, when cantering on the left lead he almost always picks up the right lead, not the left. However, when cantering on the right lead he picks up the correct lead each time. I have watched him in the field has no problem picking up the left lead there and also when he is feeling good when we ride him in the arena, he occasionally picks up a canter on his own without being cued to do so and when he does this he picks up the left lead when ridden in that direction. In the past, he was ridden by some of the more advanced riders (consider myself perhaps an intermediate rider) and was apparently was completing flying lead changes (left and right leads equally) with ease.

We have been working with him whenever we have the chance so when not in lessons we have been working him in circles, figure eights, serpentines and have started doing shoulder in and half passes with him also recently, focusing mostly on the left to try to strengthen and increase balance. We have also started to work him from larger circles and getting gradually smaller then out again. We have only just started some of these exercises as he is just starting to pick up his feet better and is getting less stumbley/trippy in the arena.

We have tried turning his head towards the rail, away from the rail, over exaggerating the canter cues, inside rein higher, outside leg back and always bring him back to the walk/trot if he picks up the wrong (right) lead. The other thing with him is that he gets frustrated after we try this too many times (usually we can attempt canter cues with him about 4 times) and he lets us know by pulling on the reins and flicking his tail.

Any advice/help on anything else that we can do or try to help his understand what we want from him and to balance/strengthen him on the left would be greatly appreciated.

irishmusic · 04-09-2007, 10:08 AM

To the left, to the left! .... Just kidding!

Have you tried this big boy on a lunge line. Most horses will pick up the correct lead on the lunge - if not make the lunge circle smaller. Once you get him lunging - WTC on correct leads - then put a person on his back. Link a cue, like RIGHT leg pressure to the LEFT canter lead. Once he is consistent with taking his leads, lake him off the lunge line and ask for the lead.

Also when you ask for the lead is important. The LEFT canter starts from the horses RIGHT rear leg. When that RIGHT rear leg starts forward is the timing to ask for the LEFT canter lead.

Smilie · 04-09-2007, 12:30 PM

Ok, the horse does not pick up the left lead when cantering to the left, but rather does a counter canter-correct?
Leads start at the back, so hip control is crucial. Do not use the old and wrong method of turning the head to the outside(opposite direction of the required lead ), trying to force the horse onto the left lead, instead of cueing him correctly and putting him in a position that makes picking up the correct lead easy. For one thing, when you turn the head to the right in order to try and pick up the left lead, you are causing that inside shoulder to drop, making it more difficult to pick up the left lead-yes you can force it, by unbalancing a horse, and a horse also will follow his shoulder-but that is not correct body position. You want to move the hip into the lead, and keep inside shoulder elevated, not dropped.
So, I would really work on hip and shoulder control. Do turn of the forehand , teaching horse to give that hip. You can then walk and jog a circle or a straight line, moving the hip slighly into the circle, or off your leg, keeping the shoulder on the same side elevated with inside rein
Then , when you go to lope off, first of all make sure the horse is loping off collected with implusion from the rear, not out of foreward momentum by troting into the lead. Move hip into desired lead with outside leg, have horse giving correctly at poll,, keep inside shoulder elevated with inside rein, shift weight to outside seat bone, sit up and drive, don't lean foreward, and ask horse to lope off, maintaning frame.

JoAnne · 04-09-2007, 01:00 PM

Does she know how to jump? If not, all you need to do is to teach her to go over low cross rails. Set up a cross rail on a circle to the left. trot her over it. Almost any horse will land in a canter ( since they land on one leg they almost have to. ) look to the left as you land. Chances are she will land on her left lead. praise her extravagently whenever she lands on left lead and continue cantering on.

After a few sessions when she is comfortable with it, add a verbal cue when she lands on left lead and/or a leg aid. Then use that cue when you want to send her into a canter to the left without the jump. sometimes, just getting used to cantering around on the correct lead is all it takes, whether on a lunge line, from landing naturally after a jump, whatever it takes to make it happen. good luck, let us know which methods work for you.

Nynx · 04-09-2007, 01:12 PM

And just a little side note from me, as I don't know how to fix the lead change problem, but when you're in the arena and he decides to canter with out your say so, don't let him. I can understand how you would hope that "maybe if I don't tell him to, he'll do it right." with the lead changes and all.

But he's going to learn that he's the boss and he sets the pace. You're just up there for the ride.

And I can also understand that it's fun to canter when he's feeling like it, but same thing with running to the barn. It's not a good idea to let them critters get away with what they want. Especially a horse as big as a Clydesdale!

Smilie · 04-09-2007, 09:42 PM

There are many ways to try and trick a horse into picking up the correct lead, but taht doesn;t give you the firm basics for great transititions, correct lead departures all the time, no matter if on the straight or in a circle., or the type of body control that advances to cadenced flying changes You develope the body control first, allowing you to position the horse correctly, so he picks up the correct lead.
Watch reiner position a horse from the stand still after a spin for the correct lead departure. He first moves that hip into the desired lead.
Doing rollbacks out of a circle will also but the horse's body in the correct position. Lope a circle first on the right lead, then stop and roll the horse back on the outside of the circle to the left, asking for the left lead departure just at the point where the hip is still into the circle to the left, and the horse's left leg is airborn and leading-jump him into the lope at that point and he has no choice but to be on the left lead.

love2ride · 04-10-2007, 08:54 AM

Hurray, Clyde did it!! Yesterday, he took the cue to canter correctly on his left lead after the 2nd attempt. I think the exercises and shifting our weight to the outside is perhaps working/paying off. Hope it continutes. . .

Thanks so much for your responses, will definitely try lunging and turn of the forehand (this will be a learning experience for both of us, lol).

As for jumping, he just loves it and really perks right up, just like cantering. For now, however, we are trotting him over low cross rails to help him learn to balance up better and to keep him under control. When we first started, he would only canter the jumps and when asked to trot over them would paddle over them (he would change his lead in the middle of the jump, his front leg would hook around the jump bringing it down and he would then stumble). He no longer paddles now and only very occasionally hesitates slightly when jumping to figure out his footing.

Nynx, thank you so much for your concern, it is appreciated. Most definitely yes allowing a horse to continue cantering whenever he feels like it is dangerous. Please rest assured that he is checked and not allowed to continue whenever he does this. I only mentioned here to emphasize the fact that Clyde does pick up canter on the left lead.

He is such a happy and fun horse to ride, I can't believe nobody else wants to ride him! Also, he is so very tolerant of our poor attempts to bring him back into condition

. We just want to keep him healthy and happy by bringing him along gradually for great long-term results.

04-09-2007, 09:10 AM
love2ride Newborn Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ontario Posts: 4	Help--Cantering on Left Lead but picking up Right Lead Hi, I am new to posting on Horsetopia but have been skulking for the past while. I must commend everyone for being very helpful and courteous to fellow posters. Sorry this this long, but would appreciate any advice. I am currently leasing/partboarding a Clydesdale, named appropriately Clyde, who has for the most part been a pasture ornament for the past couple of years or so. Myself and a friend have started to ride him and bring him back into shape for the past 2 or 3 months or thereabouts. We ride him approximately 4 times a week between us, other than us no one else currently rides him (the barn is a lesson barn only, without boarders, where the owners own all the horses and do not sell them). We really enjoy riding him as he has a great attitute and is very willing to do what is asked of him and he is a very fun ride. The problem we are having is that although he picks up transition cues very easily and transitions well from either the walk or trot into the canter, when cantering on the left lead he almost always picks up the right lead, not the left. However, when cantering on the right lead he picks up the correct lead each time. I have watched him in the field has no problem picking up the left lead there and also when he is feeling good when we ride him in the arena, he occasionally picks up a canter on his own without being cued to do so and when he does this he picks up the left lead when ridden in that direction. In the past, he was ridden by some of the more advanced riders (consider myself perhaps an intermediate rider) and was apparently was completing flying lead changes (left and right leads equally) with ease. We have been working with him whenever we have the chance so when not in lessons we have been working him in circles, figure eights, serpentines and have started doing shoulder in and half passes with him also recently, focusing mostly on the left to try to strengthen and increase balance. We have also started to work him from larger circles and getting gradually smaller then out again. We have only just started some of these exercises as he is just starting to pick up his feet better and is getting less stumbley/trippy in the arena. We have tried turning his head towards the rail, away from the rail, over exaggerating the canter cues, inside rein higher, outside leg back and always bring him back to the walk/trot if he picks up the wrong (right) lead. The other thing with him is that he gets frustrated after we try this too many times (usually we can attempt canter cues with him about 4 times) and he lets us know by pulling on the reins and flicking his tail. Any advice/help on anything else that we can do or try to help his understand what we want from him and to balance/strengthen him on the left would be greatly appreciated.

04-09-2007, 10:08 AM
irishmusic Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 581	To the left, to the left! .... Just kidding! Have you tried this big boy on a lunge line. Most horses will pick up the correct lead on the lunge - if not make the lunge circle smaller. Once you get him lunging - WTC on correct leads - then put a person on his back. Link a cue, like RIGHT leg pressure to the LEFT canter lead. Once he is consistent with taking his leads, lake him off the lunge line and ask for the lead. Also when you ask for the lead is important. The LEFT canter starts from the horses RIGHT rear leg. When that RIGHT rear leg starts forward is the timing to ask for the LEFT canter lead. __________________ It seems that some creatures have the capacity to fill spaces you never knew were empty. Captain Jean Luc Picard

04-09-2007, 12:30 PM
Smilie Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta canada Posts: 195	Ok, the horse does not pick up the left lead when cantering to the left, but rather does a counter canter-correct? Leads start at the back, so hip control is crucial. Do not use the old and wrong method of turning the head to the outside(opposite direction of the required lead ), trying to force the horse onto the left lead, instead of cueing him correctly and putting him in a position that makes picking up the correct lead easy. For one thing, when you turn the head to the right in order to try and pick up the left lead, you are causing that inside shoulder to drop, making it more difficult to pick up the left lead-yes you can force it, by unbalancing a horse, and a horse also will follow his shoulder-but that is not correct body position. You want to move the hip into the lead, and keep inside shoulder elevated, not dropped. So, I would really work on hip and shoulder control. Do turn of the forehand , teaching horse to give that hip. You can then walk and jog a circle or a straight line, moving the hip slighly into the circle, or off your leg, keeping the shoulder on the same side elevated with inside rein Then , when you go to lope off, first of all make sure the horse is loping off collected with implusion from the rear, not out of foreward momentum by troting into the lead. Move hip into desired lead with outside leg, have horse giving correctly at poll,, keep inside shoulder elevated with inside rein, shift weight to outside seat bone, sit up and drive, don't lean foreward, and ask horse to lope off, maintaning frame. __________________ Great horses are born, not made, we only put on the refinement

04-09-2007, 01:00 PM
JoAnne Started Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 2,442	Does she know how to jump? If not, all you need to do is to teach her to go over low cross rails. Set up a cross rail on a circle to the left. trot her over it. Almost any horse will land in a canter ( since they land on one leg they almost have to. ) look to the left as you land. Chances are she will land on her left lead. praise her extravagently whenever she lands on left lead and continue cantering on. After a few sessions when she is comfortable with it, add a verbal cue when she lands on left lead and/or a leg aid. Then use that cue when you want to send her into a canter to the left without the jump. sometimes, just getting used to cantering around on the correct lead is all it takes, whether on a lunge line, from landing naturally after a jump, whatever it takes to make it happen. good luck, let us know which methods work for you.

04-09-2007, 01:12 PM
Nynx Yearling Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 600	And just a little side note from me, as I don't know how to fix the lead change problem, but when you're in the arena and he decides to canter with out your say so, don't let him. I can understand how you would hope that "maybe if I don't tell him to, he'll do it right." with the lead changes and all. But he's going to learn that he's the boss and he sets the pace. You're just up there for the ride. And I can also understand that it's fun to canter when he's feeling like it, but same thing with running to the barn. It's not a good idea to let them critters get away with what they want. Especially a horse as big as a Clydesdale! __________________ ~:>

04-09-2007, 09:42 PM
Smilie Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta canada Posts: 195	There are many ways to try and trick a horse into picking up the correct lead, but taht doesn;t give you the firm basics for great transititions, correct lead departures all the time, no matter if on the straight or in a circle., or the type of body control that advances to cadenced flying changes You develope the body control first, allowing you to position the horse correctly, so he picks up the correct lead. Watch reiner position a horse from the stand still after a spin for the correct lead departure. He first moves that hip into the desired lead. Doing rollbacks out of a circle will also but the horse's body in the correct position. Lope a circle first on the right lead, then stop and roll the horse back on the outside of the circle to the left, asking for the left lead departure just at the point where the hip is still into the circle to the left, and the horse's left leg is airborn and leading-jump him into the lope at that point and he has no choice but to be on the left lead. __________________ Great horses are born, not made, we only put on the refinement

04-10-2007, 08:54 AM
love2ride Newborn Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ontario Posts: 4	Hurray, Clyde did it!! Yesterday, he took the cue to canter correctly on his left lead after the 2nd attempt. I think the exercises and shifting our weight to the outside is perhaps working/paying off. Hope it continutes. . . Thanks so much for your responses, will definitely try lunging and turn of the forehand (this will be a learning experience for both of us, lol). As for jumping, he just loves it and really perks right up, just like cantering. For now, however, we are trotting him over low cross rails to help him learn to balance up better and to keep him under control. When we first started, he would only canter the jumps and when asked to trot over them would paddle over them (he would change his lead in the middle of the jump, his front leg would hook around the jump bringing it down and he would then stumble). He no longer paddles now and only very occasionally hesitates slightly when jumping to figure out his footing. Nynx, thank you so much for your concern, it is appreciated. Most definitely yes allowing a horse to continue cantering whenever he feels like it is dangerous. Please rest assured that he is checked and not allowed to continue whenever he does this. I only mentioned here to emphasize the fact that Clyde does pick up canter on the left lead. He is such a happy and fun horse to ride, I can't believe nobody else wants to ride him! Also, he is so very tolerant of our poor attempts to bring him back into condition . We just want to keep him healthy and happy by bringing him along gradually for great long-term results.