Getting a pony to respect a 7 year old (pics) UPDATE

[Carri]

I know I post a lot about this pony and my daughter, but I am a lot more comfortable handling my own horse, it is totally different when it is a pony too small for me to get on and my sweet little girl!
Here is the problem:
Sweet Pea is a 6 year old mare, 12 hh. She is a doll-baby on the ground, and a wonderful little pony and my daughter adores her. BUT, my daughter fell off of her right after Christmas (fluke accident, not the pony's fault) and broke her arm. While Anna could not ride, I had other girls at the barn riding the pony, and long lined and lunged her several times a week. Anna has recently started riding again, and is (understandably) apprehensive and tentative. The pony had been sick and took a few weeks off, but now that she is back to "work" again she has settled right back down.
The big problem is that the pony is now refusing to walk past the gate to the arena, and every time Anna tries to get her to, she will go about 10 feet and turn back around. Anna got scared the first time it happened, and I let her get off and I lunged the pony for about 10 minutes and then put her up. The next time the pony did this, Anna was in the middle of a riding lesson and the trainer (it was a sub this day, not the normal trainer) had her switch to a different pony so that Anna could get more out of her lesson rather than spending it fighting with the pony. Again, I lunged the pony, and this time gave her a serious workout. Now, every time Anna rides her, she is a total pill and refused to go.
On Tuesday, a girl was out who trains the lesson ponies and other ponies for sale at the barn, so I had her get on the pony for a few minutes. She took Sweet Pea through everything, walk, trot, canter, leads, jumped some jumps, everything, and the pony was a dream. Anna rode her right after this girl did and she was good for her, too.
However, today Sweet Pea has been back to her ornery self. It is obviously a respect problem, the pony seems to not think she has to do what Anna says. If I stand in the ring, I can get the pony to move away from the gate, but this is not practical when so many other kids are also riding in the ring.
I have tried lunging, not lunging, standing in the ring, moving away from the ring, everything I can think of, but I feel like until Anna gets after her, nothing is going to change, but Anna is not confident enough to make her do waht she says. Also, this is not helping Anna feel good about riding again after her fall, and unfortunately, being a 7 year old girl, she feels like when Sweet Pea does not do what she says, that means Sweet Pea does not love her. She ends up crying or yelling at the pony.
Today, when Sweet Pea started acting up, I put her on the lunge line and made her obey with Anna on her back, but I do not feel like it is helping the root of the issue, and Anna feels like she is not succeeding at riding if I am holding the pony. In addition, I am teaching Anna to lunge her pony with me standing there, and it went well today!
Please let me know any other things you think might help. Anna is distraught and I don't know waht to do to help her!
Here are some pictures so you can see who you are helping:
This is Anna riding Sweet Pea when she first got her, the week before she broke her arm.


Here is Anna lunging Sweet Pea, on her own, which gave me the idea to teach her to do it.


And here is Anna just hanging out with Sweet Pea!

[pvf]

Hello - I'm glad Anna is doing better sorry to hear she broke her arm.

I have a couple of suggestions not sure if you would want to try either of them but here it goes.
One way would be to let Anna ride a different pony until she could gain her confiendence back, Or the one I like better is work with Anna and Sweet Pea more. Like what if you help Anna lung the pony with a different ridder on it so that if the pony didn't listen to Anna on the ground then either one of you could make the pony do what she wants. Keep doing this until the pony listens to her and she can do it by herself.
I beleive that Anna has lost her confiendence in herself. (I know that when my daughter lost confiendece it took awhile for her to gain it back she's 10 know. But she was 5 then.) If Anna can get control on the ground again she will probably feel more confiendent. I think it's just going to take sometime for them to work things out..

[Carri]

I think those are both great ideas. I have arranged for Anna to take her weekly lessons on the old, gentle pony she started out on, and I think that may help.
I really like your other idea too, she just needs to gain some control back, doesn't she?
I am glad your daughter got confident again... Thanks!!

[pvf]

I give you credit for working with Ponies
I tryed 2 different ones for my daughter when she was 4 & 5 and either one of them worked out. But, I was debating on should I try another or should I give her my competition horse. Well I traded someone a gelding for a mare becaue we were expanding our herd. I got a buckskin APHA paint 2 yrs old. With very little riding. I only had her for 2 weeks and she took over riding her and she taught the horse how to do a bunch of events. She was winning ribbons and trophys by the end of summer.

I'm pretty sure that your daughter and SeatPea will be best of friends again. Yeap! You daughter just needs to beleive she can do it!!
I don't think sweatpea is trying to be naughty I think the pony is just reacting to your not feeling uneasy. They usually can sence when something isn't quite right.

By the way - If that's your place in the background - it's very nice.. I like how the arena looks over the top of the houses. Although, I really like not having neighbors to close.....

Good luck with everything and keep us posted on how Anna and Sweatpea are doing...

[Sonseeahray's_girl]

Brace yourself, this is going to be long

I have been thru the same thing with my girls and their pony, altho' no one has ever been hurt, so I know that adds a different dimension to the mix, but here goes with my opinion...

Our pony is 13hh, tough as nails, full of himself, and not lacking in confidence or attitude. BUT once he figures out who'se boss, he's absolutely a doll, and I wouldn't trade him for anything.

He was trained late in life (he was 8) and had a really stubborn streak when it came to working when he wasn't in the mood. Especially when the person on his back weighs about 50lbs soaking wet, with legs like toothpicks. It came down to a battle of wills sometimes, and the last thing my daughter wanted to do was fight. She was used to lesson horses that knew the routine better than her.

I know it sounds mean, and this is not the way I'm trying to come across, but life is full of challenges, and the biggest challenges come from the biggest rewards. I'm not unsympathetic to your daughter, since she was hurt, obviously she's going to be apprehensive.

But that pony is NOT going to do what she wants, until SHE makes it. Period. It doesn't matter who else rides her. The pony has her number, and has figured out that she is not "in control" when she's riding. Is it your daughter's fault? No. But unfortunately for her, she has to get it together and get some pluck. How you choose to get her to that point is up to you and how well you know your kid. Confidence-building on other horses is great. But your daughter will not be confident on her own pony until she toughs it out long enough to get the message across to that pony that she isn't taking no for an answer.

For us, it was a matter of me not allowing her to get off until she had gotten the results she wanted, even if it was just getting him to walk on a few steps. I gave her a crop, a helmet, and an enclosed area, and I said, "You're the boss, you decide what happens, PERSIST PERSIST PERSIST. He's trying to out-stubborn you."

I understand that it's asking a lot of a 7 yr old. But let's face it, having your own horse requires a certain level of maturity, and stick-to-it-iveness, no matter what your age or level. Anna needs to face her fears and conquer them, and you need to be a calm, firm support to her in doing this, if she's going to make any progress.

I know it's tough, and it sucks to see your kids upset, but she will learn a lot about courage and believing in herself. And she will be DARNED proud when she gets that pony thru the gate!

[A J]

Sonseeahray's_girl basically explained the only method that I've seen that will work in the end. Doing the groundwork will help your daughter get in the right mentality, and see that she can make her pony do the things, but it's no promise of a good ride.

I've seen this played out with many children - my own sister, kids at the barn, etc. With each and every one, the ponies just didn't listen until some adult finally made the child stick it out - and yes, often through tears. My sister got too upset if it was my mom, so I had to be the one to make her stick it out. Some girls at the barn, even though their mom was very involved in their horsey lives, their instructor had to be the one to make them stick it out - the girls would get upset and mom would let them get off - their coach wouldn't let them yell at the ponies, but I saw a LOT of tears on more than one occasion. Eventually they had a better relationship with their ponies.

There's certainly nothing wrong with your daughter riding a different pony until she is comfortable in the saddle again, but keep in mind that most likely she will still have issues once she gets back on her pony, no matter how good she has gotten on another pony.

[tempichange]

Agreed with the above posters. However, this isn't the pony's fault, it's a behavior you taught the pony. To undo the matter, the girl needs to ride and ride like there isn't any tomorrow and whatever you do, don't let her get off.

[version1955]

First of all you share all you want to (with pics of course) about your daughter and her pony, this is the stuff that makes life worthwhile!

And now on to your "issue".

I am not going to suggest a technique. There are techniques up the whazoo but I am going to suggest that you slow waaay down and pay attention to what is going on. It is a VERY common thing to concentrate on a training issue as something to do and then we fail to recognize the process.

So what ever method or technique you use remember to pay attention to what the pony is trying to tell you. They live in an entirely different world that you do and you may be missing their little tries to do what is right. It is a slooooowwww process filled with teeny little nuances, like an ear flick, that if we miss them because we are only looking for the end result, then we keep defeating the pony's efforts to behave.

That being said, consider this. When the pony "refuses" to do what you want it to do the pony is NOT intentionally causing harm to your daughter. It sounds like its scared too and doesn't want to go through that again.

In the meantime, while you help your pony through this difficult post-accident experience, after all it was an accident to the pony too, it is perfectly okay that your daughter ride another pony for lessons.

Sometimes we need to appreciate that our horses and ponies have feelings too.

[Carri]

Update:
Anna and Sweet Pea are doing better together, I have her taking lessons on the old school pony, and she is riding Sweet Pea other days. Several other girls have gotten on Sweet Pea also, friends at the barn to show Anna that the pony is not going to do anything bad. We are just taking it slowly but it is getting better a little at a time!
Also, Divine, I took a look at the pony based on what you said, and I realized that the pony is completely avoiding the area of the ring where Anna fell, but only when Anna is on her. I feel silly for not noticing this before, but obviously you are right, Sweet Pea is afraid that Anna will fall off of her again and that spot makes her nervous. So we are just using the other half of the ring right now when Anna is on her, she is not at all afraid of that spot when other people are on her, or when you lead her by it. I think she lost confidence in Anna as much as Anna lost confidence in her, and I think part of the reason she does not want to go forward is that she is afraid of what will happen with Anna on her. The other part I think is that while Anna is asking her to go forward, she is giving her mixed signals, like she really doesn't want her to, and the pony is picking up on that.
So, y'all are right and we are just taking it slowly, letting them get used to each other again and build up some confidence together. After having so many people ride her, I am realizing she is actually a really good pony, she and Anna just need to work out their problems.

[Perrys_mama]

Awww....SweetPea sounds like a real sweetheart!

Anna is probably tensing her seat and whole little body right up when she gets to that gate, and SweetPea is just trying to keep her on her back and relaxed....by going away from the tension. You might try lunging circles at that end, while Anna is in the saddle, get them both relaxing at a walk trot and canter around the gate. Anna can hang right on with both hands, SweetPea can't go anywhere, nothing for either to worry about! I wouldn't keep this up too long though, as it will become a bit of a crutch.

Anna does need to stick it out, and she needs to remember to RIDE EVERY STRIDE, not ride the first few then start worrying about the gate. If she tells SweetPea with CONFIDENCE that she wants her to walk on, then the pony will walk on. It is darn hard...after a couple of serious jump crashes it took me and my pony A LONG time to keep our poop together in front of crossrails!

[irishmusic]

If it is good enough for the Spanish Riding School - it is good enough for me. That is lunging a horse (or pony) with a rider. This is a great tool for you and your daughter to help her gain confidence and learn the cues and signals in a controlled situation. Begin by having your daughter just sit on the pony without using reins or leg. Then start to link her leg cues to your vocal cues. Be sure that the pony has a good grasp of lunging and commands, with good transitions through the gaits ( walk to trot, trot to canter, walk to canter, etc.) before attempting this.

Our OTTB mare was confused by the signals my daughter was giving her. I put the mare, with my daughter onboard, on a lunge line. The mare knew that when at a counter-clockwise canter, she had to take the right lead, and my daughter was able to consistently link her leg cues to get her to take the right lead.

I love this training method, it was used by my instructer (an olympic rider that was trained at the Spanish Riding School) and I learned very quickly from it.

[irishmusic]

Oops! make that counter-clockwise and left lead at a canter