Well, now he's REALLY scared of me!

montanagirl · 02-10-2007, 01:25 PM

What a great way to build a trust relationship. Now my gelding is scared of me. He lets me pet and groom him while his nose is in the feed bucket, but otherwise he's very wary of letting me come year him. I'm sure that's because twice I've haltered him and lead him, and twice he's ended up in situations which were scary for him. That doesn't give him much reason to trust me, I guess.

Is it okay to just feed and pet him for a few more days or even a week, before trying to catch him again? I know I can catch him if I need to, but is it better to catch him and lead him to grain, which would teach him that he's not always being lead to something scary, or is it better to give him more time to trust me overall before I come at him with the halter? (I tried to rub him gently on his body with halter and lead rope today and he ran right out of the stall away from his grain.)

One other question--he's started a senior equine adn beet pulp supplement in this past week--could the new grain contribute to his antsy behavior?

I hate the feeling that I'm already messing up so badly!

BTW, this was such a bombproof old gelding when I first met and rode him that I was worried he'd be TOO dead. Silly me.

Jadesmygirl · 02-10-2007, 01:28 PM

I don't know, I worry you are just being too hard on yourself and not giving things enough time. May I ask what scared him??

TX-Reiner · 02-10-2007, 01:32 PM

I know how you feel! When ever I get a new colt in for training, and I cannot catch them, I try putting them in a smaller paddock, (A stall is better) And have no food or water in there (Don't do this in the summer, unless you go out and offer him water SEVERAL times a day)

I personally feel this is the quickest way to build trust in a horse, is I will go out and offer feed and water 5-6 times a day, pretty soon he relizes it is ME who is keeping him alive and full. You have to be willing to put in the effort, and after a day or so of this, you need to do lots of round pen work, and get him to hook on to you there, as well. Treats are good while rewarding the horse for a right behavior, but don't use them to bribe the horse to come up to you.

Stay safe, and keep us updated!

wildcat180 · 02-10-2007, 01:40 PM

It doesn't sound to me like you've had him at your place that long. It took my gelding a few weeks to settle in. During that time, I went out to feed him and water him, but I pretty much just let him be as he adjusted to his new environment. I didn't even try to halter him until after about two weeks or so.

Give him time, relax. The trust will come. Every horse is different. Some adjust quicker than others. The bottom line is, he'll tell you when he's ready to trust you. But for now, let him be a horse. Allow him the freedom to search his new area on his own.

If you try and push too hard, you may end up causing problems you'll have to fix later. (Sounds like this bombproof horse is becoming hard to catch...)

Just let him be. You both will be fine.

montanagirl · 02-10-2007, 01:41 PM

Jadesmygirl, the first time I led him into the tack room, which made him nervous, and the second time I led him into the arena and free lunged him for a little while. Both of those situations were stressful for him (I didn't expect that) and obviously he doesn't trust me to keep him safe yet.

I'm doing his feedings twice a day, in a stall, and trying to spend 30-60 minutes in the stall with him each time.

This morning was when I realized he was pretty untrusting of me, moreso than the days before.

Hmmm.

ruffian · 02-10-2007, 02:01 PM

I think it just needs more time. Depending on how much he's been moved around and past experience he may take more time to settle than some.
I like the idea of feeding and watering yourself, he needs to know that you are the go to person. One suggestion, don't make a lot of eye contact. Be with him, sit in a corner of the paddock and read a book, do chores, whatever but act as though you are not even aware that he is there. Most horses find it way too intimidating to be your focus, until they are ready.
I think you are being way too hard on yourself. Just putter around him quietly , singing (my singing would scare any horse) so that he get used to you and the environment. I 've had some horses take months before they really started to bond and showed any affection.
Enjoy him, it will come together!

oveywon · 02-10-2007, 04:10 PM

Jadesmygirl · 02-10-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanagirl

Jadesmygirl, the first time I led him into the tack room, which made him nervous, and the second time I led him into the arena and free lunged him for a little while. Both of those situations were stressful for him (I didn't expect that) and obviously he doesn't trust me to keep him safe yet.

I'm doing his feedings twice a day, in a stall, and trying to spend 30-60 minutes in the stall with him each time.

This morning was when I realized he was pretty untrusting of me, moreso than the days before.

Hmmm.

Ok, I did read both of the posts you had on that, but I am guessing neither situation was as stressful for him as you are thinking. Since nothing really bad happened either time, it was probably fine. You will not wreck your horse in less than a week!
Just keep giving him time, and yourself. I think you are doing good just hanging out with him. He might take awhile to settle in-but he will.
My bombproof mare was also much spookier when I first got her. I followed the advice of well intentioned people instead of listening to my own instincts and rushed a couple things. But, she still settled in anyway and she is back to her old self now.
I certainly don't think you have done any irreparable harm!!
I have seen quite a few horses who take a move kind of hard-my mare looked so depressed and just stood in a corner with her ears back for over a week.
Just keep hanging out like you are-grooming is good-relaxing for both of you. Before you know it things will be fine!!

wildcat180 · 02-10-2007, 04:46 PM

One of the most important things you HAVE to learn when around horses is to RELAX. If you're anxious, they will sense that and it will make them anxious.

If you find yourself being apprehensive about something, like trying to catch him and worrying that you won't, take a step back, breath deep and calm down. Then, use the power of positive thinking. "I will catch this horse". Smile, speak softly and pleasantly to him, then go to halter him like you expect him to stand there and allow you to. This can apply to any aspect.

During my beginning of the learning process I figured out that if I had misgivings about something, I usually got the negative result I was worried about. But if I stayed calm and did what I had to do, it got done.

So, when you're around your horse, RELAX. He will come to love you, just give him time. (And lots of treats wouldn't hurt either!

)

Mule Fool · 02-10-2007, 07:57 PM

If I recall from another post, isn't he in his 20's? If he hasn't been moved before or very often this is a BIG adjustment for him. Really though I think it sounds like you're doing pretty good. If you can have him in a small corrall and just hang out in there with him that would be good since in the stall he might be feeling as if there's no escape. Just do something where you aren't even really paying him any attention. You could even take a chair and a book in there. And as someone else said don't look right at him. What is good for a horse like this is when they feel they can start making the advances to you instead of the other way around. Now, take a deep breath, and relax.

You'll do fine.

**beth55051** · 02-10-2007, 08:07 PM

One thing nobody else has mentioned, Mulefool touched on it a bit.

Has he ever been stalled before? If he was like most Montana ranch horses barns are for wimps? I had a gelding from Mississippi that had been a ranch horse all his life, he had absolutely no use for barns whatsoever. He was also very nervous in indoors at first because even though he was in his late teens and very well traveled (rodeos, roping) he had never been ridden inside. Because I was calm and relaxed he soon relaxed and rode inside like he'd been doing it all his life. He may also not be used to the sound of snow falling/sliding off the roof. Some horses get very worried about it and can wait for the next slide and therefore never relax.

I have two horses now that are still very nervous and jumpy inside the barn but walk them right outside the door and they instantly settle down. One was beaten badly by a dominant mare every time he went in the barn and the other was beaten up by his trainer whenever he acted like a stud.

snickers · 02-10-2007, 08:24 PM

Patience.

I think I said that in your other post.

As already suggested, if you are not yourself around him, you will send vibes and he wont be himself.

If you are so unsure, I would consult with the people I bought him from and/or get a trainer to help you.

You need to just give it some time, you, yourself relax and maybe give him some outside time by himself to play some energy out.

I dont know if he gets any outside time, but if I was kept stalled, in a new place I would be ansy as well.

montanagirl · 02-10-2007, 10:38 PM

You all have such good points. He is in a stall with a turnout, next to other horses, but certainly not in a pasture.

This afternoon I decided to just relax, after reading this excellent advice. He came running when he saw me walk toward the stall door with the feed bucket. I groomed him all over while he ate, for about ten minutes. Then, before he was done, I went and sat with my back to him in the turnout area and read a book. After a while, he came and sniffed at my back, and I gave him a treat. He hung around and I gave him one or two more, then walked out of the stall with him trying to follow me. (Did I mention that it is COLD outside here and I was almost frozen, but happy to be frozen for a good reason.)

Baby steps, baby steps. At least I can see a relationship in the future. I"ll get input from my trainer on Monday but until then will just plan to feed him, groom him, and pointedly ignore him.

Thanks!

wildcat180 · 02-11-2007, 09:36 AM

Just remember, horses are a lot like men. Sure, force works, but if you let them think it's THEIR idea, things usually go much smoother and faster...

Glad to hear things are looking up!

**QuarterCowGirl** · 02-11-2007, 02:23 PM

You have the right idea. Give him time and lots of treats and he'll come around!

Jadesmygirl · 02-11-2007, 09:03 PM

So glad to hear you had a good day today!!

Kendra · 02-13-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildcat180

Just remember, horses are a lot like men. Sure, force works, but if you let them think it's THEIR idea, things usually go much smoother and faster...

I have much better luck with horses than men

Glad you had a good day!!!

TxHorseMom · 02-13-2007, 08:19 PM

It sounds to me like YOU are the one who is scared and nervous, not him. Its o.k. for horses to be more cautious and alert in a new situation. That does not mean he is "scared". It is instinct. Too many people IMO read into things and put human emotions on their animals. (theres a name for that, but I am blanking on it right now.) Relax, enjoy him, let him be a horse and things will be fine.

Seanachie · 02-13-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxHorseMom

Too many people IMO read into things and put human emotions on their animals. (theres a name for that, but I am blanking on it right now.)

anÂ·throÂ·poÂ·morÂ·phism (nthr-p-mÃ´rfzm)
n.
Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.

TxHorseMom · 02-13-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanachie

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxHorseMom

Too many people IMO read into things and put human emotions on their animals. (theres a name for that, but I am blanking on it right now.)

anÂ·throÂ·poÂ·morÂ·phism (nthr-p-mÃ´rfzm)
n.
Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.

Thanks! I was just having a blonde moment I guess.

(I'm gonna say blonde moment over senior moment, it makes me feel better!

)

02-10-2007, 01:25 PM
montanagirl Yearling Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 591	Well, now he's REALLY scared of me! What a great way to build a trust relationship. Now my gelding is scared of me. He lets me pet and groom him while his nose is in the feed bucket, but otherwise he's very wary of letting me come year him. I'm sure that's because twice I've haltered him and lead him, and twice he's ended up in situations which were scary for him. That doesn't give him much reason to trust me, I guess. Is it okay to just feed and pet him for a few more days or even a week, before trying to catch him again? I know I can catch him if I need to, but is it better to catch him and lead him to grain, which would teach him that he's not always being lead to something scary, or is it better to give him more time to trust me overall before I come at him with the halter? (I tried to rub him gently on his body with halter and lead rope today and he ran right out of the stall away from his grain.) One other question--he's started a senior equine adn beet pulp supplement in this past week--could the new grain contribute to his antsy behavior? I hate the feeling that I'm already messing up so badly! BTW, this was such a bombproof old gelding when I first met and rode him that I was worried he'd be TOO dead. Silly me. __________________ No hour is ever wasted that is spent in the saddle. --Winston Churchill

02-10-2007, 01:28 PM
Jadesmygirl Started Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,543	I don't know, I worry you are just being too hard on yourself and not giving things enough time. May I ask what scared him??

02-10-2007, 01:32 PM
TX-Reiner Weanling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North Texas! Posts: 396	I know how you feel! When ever I get a new colt in for training, and I cannot catch them, I try putting them in a smaller paddock, (A stall is better) And have no food or water in there (Don't do this in the summer, unless you go out and offer him water SEVERAL times a day) I personally feel this is the quickest way to build trust in a horse, is I will go out and offer feed and water 5-6 times a day, pretty soon he relizes it is ME who is keeping him alive and full. You have to be willing to put in the effort, and after a day or so of this, you need to do lots of round pen work, and get him to hook on to you there, as well. Treats are good while rewarding the horse for a right behavior, but don't use them to bribe the horse to come up to you. Stay safe, and keep us updated! __________________ Excuse the typos, I am aware that I am a disaster! I am the daughter of the official Typo Qeen!

02-10-2007, 01:40 PM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,130	It doesn't sound to me like you've had him at your place that long. It took my gelding a few weeks to settle in. During that time, I went out to feed him and water him, but I pretty much just let him be as he adjusted to his new environment. I didn't even try to halter him until after about two weeks or so. Give him time, relax. The trust will come. Every horse is different. Some adjust quicker than others. The bottom line is, he'll tell you when he's ready to trust you. But for now, let him be a horse. Allow him the freedom to search his new area on his own. If you try and push too hard, you may end up causing problems you'll have to fix later. (Sounds like this bombproof horse is becoming hard to catch...) Just let him be. You both will be fine. __________________ My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!-Marquis de Sade

02-10-2007, 01:41 PM
montanagirl Yearling Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 591	Jadesmygirl, the first time I led him into the tack room, which made him nervous, and the second time I led him into the arena and free lunged him for a little while. Both of those situations were stressful for him (I didn't expect that) and obviously he doesn't trust me to keep him safe yet. I'm doing his feedings twice a day, in a stall, and trying to spend 30-60 minutes in the stall with him each time. This morning was when I realized he was pretty untrusting of me, moreso than the days before. Hmmm. __________________ No hour is ever wasted that is spent in the saddle. --Winston Churchill

02-10-2007, 02:01 PM
ruffian Long Yearling Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,015	I think it just needs more time. Depending on how much he's been moved around and past experience he may take more time to settle than some. I like the idea of feeding and watering yourself, he needs to know that you are the go to person. One suggestion, don't make a lot of eye contact. Be with him, sit in a corner of the paddock and read a book, do chores, whatever but act as though you are not even aware that he is there. Most horses find it way too intimidating to be your focus, until they are ready. I think you are being way too hard on yourself. Just putter around him quietly , singing (my singing would scare any horse) so that he get used to you and the environment. I 've had some horses take months before they really started to bond and showed any affection. Enjoy him, it will come together! __________________ There is something about the outside of a Horse that\'s good for the inside of a man (Will Rogers)

02-10-2007, 04:10 PM
oveywon Started Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,164	....

02-10-2007, 04:46 PM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,130	One of the most important things you HAVE to learn when around horses is to RELAX. If you're anxious, they will sense that and it will make them anxious. If you find yourself being apprehensive about something, like trying to catch him and worrying that you won't, take a step back, breath deep and calm down. Then, use the power of positive thinking. "I will catch this horse". Smile, speak softly and pleasantly to him, then go to halter him like you expect him to stand there and allow you to. This can apply to any aspect. During my beginning of the learning process I figured out that if I had misgivings about something, I usually got the negative result I was worried about. But if I stayed calm and did what I had to do, it got done. So, when you're around your horse, RELAX. He will come to love you, just give him time. (And lots of treats wouldn't hurt either! ) __________________ My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!-Marquis de Sade

02-10-2007, 07:57 PM
Mule Fool Started Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,283	If I recall from another post, isn't he in his 20's? If he hasn't been moved before or very often this is a BIG adjustment for him. Really though I think it sounds like you're doing pretty good. If you can have him in a small corrall and just hang out in there with him that would be good since in the stall he might be feeling as if there's no escape. Just do something where you aren't even really paying him any attention. You could even take a chair and a book in there. And as someone else said don't look right at him. What is good for a horse like this is when they feel they can start making the advances to you instead of the other way around. Now, take a deep breath, and relax. You'll do fine.

02-10-2007, 08:07 PM
beth55051 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: East Central Minnesota Posts: 4,870	One thing nobody else has mentioned, Mulefool touched on it a bit. Has he ever been stalled before? If he was like most Montana ranch horses barns are for wimps? I had a gelding from Mississippi that had been a ranch horse all his life, he had absolutely no use for barns whatsoever. He was also very nervous in indoors at first because even though he was in his late teens and very well traveled (rodeos, roping) he had never been ridden inside. Because I was calm and relaxed he soon relaxed and rode inside like he'd been doing it all his life. He may also not be used to the sound of snow falling/sliding off the roof. Some horses get very worried about it and can wait for the next slide and therefore never relax. I have two horses now that are still very nervous and jumpy inside the barn but walk them right outside the door and they instantly settle down. One was beaten badly by a dominant mare every time he went in the barn and the other was beaten up by his trainer whenever he acted like a stud. __________________ Do not mind anything that anyone tells you about anyone else. Judge everyone and everything for yourself.

02-10-2007, 08:24 PM
snickers Bombproof Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Twilight Zone Posts: 8,988	Patience. I think I said that in your other post. As already suggested, if you are not yourself around him, you will send vibes and he wont be himself. If you are so unsure, I would consult with the people I bought him from and/or get a trainer to help you. You need to just give it some time, you, yourself relax and maybe give him some outside time by himself to play some energy out. I dont know if he gets any outside time, but if I was kept stalled, in a new place I would be ansy as well. __________________ " You cant fix stupid " Ron White Life is to short to argue with ignorant people.

02-10-2007, 10:38 PM
montanagirl Yearling Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 591	You all have such good points. He is in a stall with a turnout, next to other horses, but certainly not in a pasture. This afternoon I decided to just relax, after reading this excellent advice. He came running when he saw me walk toward the stall door with the feed bucket. I groomed him all over while he ate, for about ten minutes. Then, before he was done, I went and sat with my back to him in the turnout area and read a book. After a while, he came and sniffed at my back, and I gave him a treat. He hung around and I gave him one or two more, then walked out of the stall with him trying to follow me. (Did I mention that it is COLD outside here and I was almost frozen, but happy to be frozen for a good reason.) Baby steps, baby steps. At least I can see a relationship in the future. I"ll get input from my trainer on Monday but until then will just plan to feed him, groom him, and pointedly ignore him. Thanks! __________________ No hour is ever wasted that is spent in the saddle. --Winston Churchill

02-11-2007, 09:36 AM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,130	Just remember, horses are a lot like men. Sure, force works, but if you let them think it's THEIR idea, things usually go much smoother and faster... Glad to hear things are looking up! __________________ My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!-Marquis de Sade

02-11-2007, 02:23 PM
QuarterCowGirl Welcome and Introductions Moderator Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,746	You have the right idea. Give him time and lots of treats and he'll come around! __________________ I'm a farmer - I'll grow on you.

02-11-2007, 09:03 PM
Jadesmygirl Started Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,543	So glad to hear you had a good day today!!

02-13-2007, 08:19 PM
TxHorseMom Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 3,034	It sounds to me like YOU are the one who is scared and nervous, not him. Its o.k. for horses to be more cautious and alert in a new situation. That does not mean he is "scared". It is instinct. Too many people IMO read into things and put human emotions on their animals. (theres a name for that, but I am blanking on it right now.) Relax, enjoy him, let him be a horse and things will be fine.