Reining Training, Pt 2 /Partial Vent

Hideaway · 11-10-2006, 11:23 AM

So, my poor Howdy left for training last Saturday. It was hard to get this trainers address from him let alone information about his new farm. When I unloaded him and went to his designated stall it was so tiny. My stalls at home are 10x12 these were only big enough for him to turn around. So I figured at least he'd get turnout. Well noooo, he has to share the roundpen with other stallions so he only gets out for a little while and then goes back in. Is this normal? So I settled everything in and left. Well I called on Tuesday to check in and he didn't even know who I was talking about when I called.

He then tells me that he's been very vocal and bangs around a lot in his stall. No kidding I would too! I left a message with him to let him know that I would be up after work tonight to see him and possibly ride. He called back and said he wasn't going to be there tonight and that he'd rather me schedule a time to see him next week. Is this normal? I miss and want to see my horse. I'm talking like 7 o'clock latest getting up there. I'm beginning to think this is a bad idea. Am I just being a worried mom or should I go pick up my horse. I know I sent him for training but isn't it almost like boarding as long as you're not there past a set time you can see him whenever you want?

MLovely · 11-10-2006, 11:26 AM

Being worried is normal, but if I were you, I would show up un-expectedly to go check on him. He's your horse and you have a right to see him, see his progress and make sure he's ok.

A good trainer will absolutely want you involved in the training.

Rocking Horse · 11-10-2006, 12:12 PM

I may be a paranoid mama too, but I think I'd go pick up my horse.
The situation doesn't sound that great and this trainer should at least know your horse and who you are...

Anytime I've boarded horses or had them for training, the owners were allowed up until 9pm.. No questions asked.
When I worked for trainers, owners were allowed to watch the training, visit up until whatever hour the trainer set and sure as heck didn't have to call before they came...

miss leanne · 11-10-2006, 12:22 PM

I may not be the popular opinion, but here's my .02 regarding sending your horse to a trainer...

As you know, you're kind of at the trainer's mercy. What I would do if you are worried about him is show up unexpectedly with a valid excuse to be there (maybe a supplement or a wormer, or a new halter, or something along those lines), and check out his wellbeing. If he's fine, then schedule a time with the trainer to see him work your horse. Tell him you want to see for yourself how well he's doing, and what kind of techniques he's using, or something like that. Checking on your horse weekly is acceptable, it's when it turns into 3 times a week or every day that it gets bothersome to a trainer. If he can't accomadate that request, I would be looking for a different trainer.

About the small stall size and limited turnout, it's sad, but it's not necessarily detrimental to his health. If he's being ridden adequately, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. If you're happy with the work the trainer has done with him, which you'll have to go see to evaluate, then I wouldn't worry too much. Is he just there for an evaluation from the trainer, or is he there to begin full reining training?

Miichelle · 11-10-2006, 01:07 PM

Hi All,

I'm new here (and I hope this posts as a reply and not as a new post!), but I have a horse in training and have had horses in training in the past. If my trainer didn't let me stop by to see my horse (during "business hours") he wouldn't be my trainer!

I don't see any reason that you need an excuss to see your horse. I can understand a trainer not wanting you to ride your horse during the first month or so if the horse is very green, that's what you're paying him to do and there's no point in confussing the horse.

As for the small stall, how small is small? My trainer has 12x12 stalls, but the horses also average 15.2hh to 16.2hh (or bigger). It's not unusual for a horse to be stalled during training and turned out in a pen for a couple of hours a day as long as the horse is being ridden at least five days a week. If the horse isn't being ridden this much then what are you paying for?

I have to schedule a time to see my trainer ride because he has several horses in training and lessons to teach, but my four year old App mare went from very green broke to jumping small fences in 3 1/2 weeks! Of course not all horses are going to progress at the same rate, this mare is very tractable and jumping is in her blood- she took to it like a fish to water

, but you should be able to see improvement from one week to the next.

Just my two cents worth...

Michelle

miss leanne · 11-10-2006, 01:31 PM

The only reason I would suggest bringing something to validate your visit is to keep your trainer from thinking that you're just randomly checking up on him trying to catch him in something. That way, if you really ARE trying to catch him in something, he'll be less suspicious.

Did you get references as to this trainer's past successes? If he's got an extensive list of good references, I wouldn't worry as much. And I second Miichelle's opinion of not riding the horse in the beginning, it's a crucial time for the animal to be learning. But he shouldn't object to you making an appointment to see the horse being worked.

EquineAlberta · 11-10-2006, 02:34 PM

I am going to be "devils advocate" here, and present the possible other side:

If the facility is private property, then no, you don't really have the right to show up at any time as they may lock the gate, or set security when they leave. Visiting hours should be discussed before hand. Now if they do board for other people, then likely the place would be "open" during normal hours, and then I think you should be able to go visit with or without "permission", but if they only board training horses then it may not be reasonible to just show up.

As for him not knowing your horse, could it be you caught him at a bad time and his mind was somewhere else? We have home phones that can work all over our property, so sometimes I am feeding when someone calls and I bet I sound distracted too!

Sounds like your gut is giving you a bad feeling though...I'd wait and see how things go during your scheduled visit before you make a decision to pick him up though.

karen2

Hideaway · 11-10-2006, 02:37 PM

He's in for full reining training, I did the basics. I can understand not riding but I just want to go out to see him and let him know that I haven't fed him to the wolves. The stall is literally only big enough for him to just make a circle. Again it's not the stalling it's the size. Poor guy needs to be able to move. I didn't think I should have to make an appt to see him. It makes me wonder what he's trying to hide. I want to check his weight especially because he drops it so quickly when he's stressed. I know he's looking for me, we're so close.

Now I'm stressed, I told him I wanted to come by before I went away this weekend.

johnny&corkscrew · 11-10-2006, 02:46 PM

Go with what your heart is telling you. I would go see him. And that would be that. I would want to be sure he is ok. And then schedule time with the trainer. Some styles of training are not ok. There are plenty of trainers out there. Just my .02 cents.

Drafty · 11-10-2006, 03:38 PM

Hideaway, I nearly died of a heart attack after I read this thread and realized that you were in PA! Please tell me that the guy does not have a big orange trailer, a draft horse named Clyde, and not an inch of level ground on the property. If this is the trainer I am thinking of, you had best go back and get your horse.

carlagsd · 11-10-2006, 04:06 PM

It would probably make you feel better if you could have a 30 min talk with your trainer to see what the "rules" are about visiting, training schedule, turnouts, feeding program and on and on. Are there other horses there for training? How long have they been there? Could you try to talk with one of the owners about your trainer and how he cares for the horses he's working with? What do those horses look like? How did you find your trainer? Does he have references from someone you know and trust? I've heard too many stories about unreputable trainers, so I'm extra cautious when it comes to finding one. Anyway, I say go with your gut feelings and don't second guess yourself. That little voice in your head is there for a reason.

Miichelle · 11-10-2006, 04:17 PM

I agree with EquineAlberta that it is private property and you don't have the right to show up anytime, BUT scheduling an appointment a week later doesn't set right with me. I wouldn't want people wandering around my property at all hours, but training horses is a business and he should have business hours that clients can show up at the barn.

If I show up at my trainer's barn unexpectedly my mare's stall might not be spottless, but my WHITE horse is always reasonably clean (not green!) and is happily looking for carrots from anyone passing by...

recklesshoundog · 11-10-2006, 04:42 PM

I think if you had just asked to stop by and see him, it might not have been a big deal. But you did mention that you wanted to ride, which in the first week a horse is away might be. Most trainers don't remember the new horses names for a while. For the couple of weeks, it's "get the new one" until they become familiar. Training isn't really like boarding. You've turned over control of your horse to the trainer. If he's good, he probably has clients stopping by for their appts and it would be wrong for him to ignore them to pay attention to the owner that just popped in. Popping in to say hi and visit your boy is fine, but if you want to discuss your horse or see him worked, an appointment is the correct way to do it.

Scheduling an appt for next week doesn't sound unreasonable, after all it's friday, next week is only two days away.

The trainer I used for my boys this summer when I was working such busy schedule, worked from 9 am until 6pm. I usually didn't get done with work until 6pm and by the time I drove to see the boys, the trainer was usually gone. He had a family and dinner together was important to them, as it should be. I had to schedule my appts with him to get my lessons on my boys. But there was never an issue with me just popping in to say hi to them on my schedule.

With that said, I do agree if your feeling uncomfortable with the stalling, and other issues....check on him. The short turn out time isn't such a big thing like if the others said, he's being worked daily. The small stall would concern me too. Risk of getting cast is much greater in a too small of a stall. Your a paying client, request a larger stall and be ready to pay if necessary.

I hate having my horses anywhere but home....but sometimes it's unavoidable. Good luck and I hope your bad feelings are just baby away jitters.

Miichelle · 11-10-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

It was hard to get this trainers address from him let alone information about his new farm.

This part would worry me. How did you choose this trainer? An advertisement? Word of mouth? Does he have good references/reputation?

Quote:

I left a message with him to let him know that I would be up after work tonight to see him and possibly ride. He called back and said he wasn't going to be there tonight and that he'd rather me schedule a time to see him next week.

And this part I read wrong, I thought it was Tuesday that she wanted to go see the horse...

barnmom · 11-12-2006, 09:31 AM

how did you find this trainer? did you see the size of the stalls? my gracie is starting training next month and i spoke to the trainer for 45 minutes on the phone i'm going to check the place out and i have already heard great things about him recommended by my farrier but i will check it and him out first "before" he gets my girl

i would remove my horse from that environment asap, i would just pop in for a visit, that is your horse and you are paying for him notonly to train but to take care of your horse in a humane way

Hideaway · 11-13-2006, 09:42 AM

I am going to speak with him today. It is not ok to ask me to see my horse at the end of the next week. Yes, I'm being nervous but I am very anal about how my horses are cared for and I'm not used to them being away from home. Luckily Drafty, he doesn't have an orange trailer or a draft horse. My heart sank when I read the first line only to rule it out. This guy is really nice. I had my eye on him for weeks at the auction when he was riding horses through. Nice calm easy temperment. Maybe since I mentioned riding he didn't want me riding when he wasn't there. That's OK. I'm going to talk with him and maybe set a day or two per week so I can brush and see him. Is that fair? Do you think I would be there too much? I wouldn't want to ride just to visit. We can plan ahead for when I want to ride or see him ride.

I miss the big fella.

miss leanne · 11-13-2006, 10:13 AM

I wouldn't go out and see him more than once a week. And I wouldn't handle him at ALL... remember, he's there to learn from someone else, and he's adjusting to the trainer's style of handling him... if you go handling him, it may just confuse him and make the time he's spending with the trainer spent more on correcting any confusion rather than learning new things...

But that said, I would definantly set up a day where you'll always go and see him worked, once a week, if you're feeling anxious about it. No harm in that. It will probably set all your fears to rest once you see him being ridden by someone else and doing exciting new things. If you feel he's a good trainer, don't second guess yourself until you have actual proof of him NOT being a good one... no sense in borrowing trouble.

And after he's been there a month or so, maybe see about riding him in a lesson situation with the trainer... that way, he can teach you how to ride him in the style that he's been trained for, and you can learn what cues he's been teaching him and what they do.

It's always hard to see a horse go out for training, especially when they're your 'baby'... but it's for the best. It's like sending your kid out to boarding school. Have faith that the guy knows what he's doing and that you made the right choice. Check on him once a week, that should be enough time to nip any bad problems that might be developing right in the bud.

Just my .02 of course.

Hideaway · 11-13-2006, 01:55 PM

All is ok for now. It sounds like he's doing really well. I'm headed out tomorrow to watch him ride.

miss leanne · 11-13-2006, 02:12 PM

yay! can't wait for an update about how well he's doing!

Hideaway · 11-13-2006, 03:12 PM

Trainer says he misses me. We both misunderstood each other. Sheesh communication is a tricky subj. I will keep you posted

11-10-2006, 11:23 AM
Hideaway Started Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: PA Posts: 2,053	Reining Training, Pt 2 /Partial Vent So, my poor Howdy left for training last Saturday. It was hard to get this trainers address from him let alone information about his new farm. When I unloaded him and went to his designated stall it was so tiny. My stalls at home are 10x12 these were only big enough for him to turn around. So I figured at least he'd get turnout. Well noooo, he has to share the roundpen with other stallions so he only gets out for a little while and then goes back in. Is this normal? So I settled everything in and left. Well I called on Tuesday to check in and he didn't even know who I was talking about when I called. He then tells me that he's been very vocal and bangs around a lot in his stall. No kidding I would too! I left a message with him to let him know that I would be up after work tonight to see him and possibly ride. He called back and said he wasn't going to be there tonight and that he'd rather me schedule a time to see him next week. Is this normal? I miss and want to see my horse. I'm talking like 7 o'clock latest getting up there. I'm beginning to think this is a bad idea. Am I just being a worried mom or should I go pick up my horse. I know I sent him for training but isn't it almost like boarding as long as you're not there past a set time you can see him whenever you want?

11-10-2006, 11:26 AM
MLovely Long Yearling Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York Posts: 1,105	Being worried is normal, but if I were you, I would show up un-expectedly to go check on him. He's your horse and you have a right to see him, see his progress and make sure he's ok. A good trainer will absolutely want you involved in the training.

11-10-2006, 12:12 PM
Rocking Horse Started Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,367	I may be a paranoid mama too, but I think I'd go pick up my horse. The situation doesn't sound that great and this trainer should at least know your horse and who you are... Anytime I've boarded horses or had them for training, the owners were allowed up until 9pm.. No questions asked. When I worked for trainers, owners were allowed to watch the training, visit up until whatever hour the trainer set and sure as heck didn't have to call before they came... __________________ ~ Too many freaks, not enough circuses ~

11-10-2006, 12:22 PM
miss leanne Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,532	I may not be the popular opinion, but here's my .02 regarding sending your horse to a trainer... As you know, you're kind of at the trainer's mercy. What I would do if you are worried about him is show up unexpectedly with a valid excuse to be there (maybe a supplement or a wormer, or a new halter, or something along those lines), and check out his wellbeing. If he's fine, then schedule a time with the trainer to see him work your horse. Tell him you want to see for yourself how well he's doing, and what kind of techniques he's using, or something like that. Checking on your horse weekly is acceptable, it's when it turns into 3 times a week or every day that it gets bothersome to a trainer. If he can't accomadate that request, I would be looking for a different trainer. About the small stall size and limited turnout, it's sad, but it's not necessarily detrimental to his health. If he's being ridden adequately, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. If you're happy with the work the trainer has done with him, which you'll have to go see to evaluate, then I wouldn't worry too much. Is he just there for an evaluation from the trainer, or is he there to begin full reining training?

11-10-2006, 01:07 PM
Miichelle Started Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central Idaho Posts: 2,272	Reining Training, Pt 2/ Partial Vent Hi All, I'm new here (and I hope this posts as a reply and not as a new post!), but I have a horse in training and have had horses in training in the past. If my trainer didn't let me stop by to see my horse (during "business hours") he wouldn't be my trainer! I don't see any reason that you need an excuss to see your horse. I can understand a trainer not wanting you to ride your horse during the first month or so if the horse is very green, that's what you're paying him to do and there's no point in confussing the horse. As for the small stall, how small is small? My trainer has 12x12 stalls, but the horses also average 15.2hh to 16.2hh (or bigger). It's not unusual for a horse to be stalled during training and turned out in a pen for a couple of hours a day as long as the horse is being ridden at least five days a week. If the horse isn't being ridden this much then what are you paying for? I have to schedule a time to see my trainer ride because he has several horses in training and lessons to teach, but my four year old App mare went from very green broke to jumping small fences in 3 1/2 weeks! Of course not all horses are going to progress at the same rate, this mare is very tractable and jumping is in her blood- she took to it like a fish to water , but you should be able to see improvement from one week to the next. Just my two cents worth... Michelle

11-10-2006, 01:31 PM
miss leanne Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,532	The only reason I would suggest bringing something to validate your visit is to keep your trainer from thinking that you're just randomly checking up on him trying to catch him in something. That way, if you really ARE trying to catch him in something, he'll be less suspicious. Did you get references as to this trainer's past successes? If he's got an extensive list of good references, I wouldn't worry as much. And I second Miichelle's opinion of not riding the horse in the beginning, it's a crucial time for the animal to be learning. But he shouldn't object to you making an appointment to see the horse being worked.

11-10-2006, 02:34 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,694	I am going to be "devils advocate" here, and present the possible other side: If the facility is private property, then no, you don't really have the right to show up at any time as they may lock the gate, or set security when they leave. Visiting hours should be discussed before hand. Now if they do board for other people, then likely the place would be "open" during normal hours, and then I think you should be able to go visit with or without "permission", but if they only board training horses then it may not be reasonible to just show up. As for him not knowing your horse, could it be you caught him at a bad time and his mind was somewhere else? We have home phones that can work all over our property, so sometimes I am feeding when someone calls and I bet I sound distracted too! Sounds like your gut is giving you a bad feeling though...I'd wait and see how things go during your scheduled visit before you make a decision to pick him up though. karen2 __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB CHT Horse Stories!

11-10-2006, 02:37 PM
Hideaway Started Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: PA Posts: 2,053	He's in for full reining training, I did the basics. I can understand not riding but I just want to go out to see him and let him know that I haven't fed him to the wolves. The stall is literally only big enough for him to just make a circle. Again it's not the stalling it's the size. Poor guy needs to be able to move. I didn't think I should have to make an appt to see him. It makes me wonder what he's trying to hide. I want to check his weight especially because he drops it so quickly when he's stressed. I know he's looking for me, we're so close. Now I'm stressed, I told him I wanted to come by before I went away this weekend.

11-10-2006, 02:46 PM
johnny&corkscrew Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ft. Pierce, Florida Posts: 208	Go with what your heart is telling you. I would go see him. And that would be that. I would want to be sure he is ok. And then schedule time with the trainer. Some styles of training are not ok. There are plenty of trainers out there. Just my .02 cents.

11-10-2006, 03:38 PM
Drafty Long Yearling Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,106	Hideaway, I nearly died of a heart attack after I read this thread and realized that you were in PA! Please tell me that the guy does not have a big orange trailer, a draft horse named Clyde, and not an inch of level ground on the property. If this is the trainer I am thinking of, you had best go back and get your horse. __________________ "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." - Mahatma Gandhi

11-10-2006, 04:06 PM
carlagsd Yearling Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 730	It would probably make you feel better if you could have a 30 min talk with your trainer to see what the "rules" are about visiting, training schedule, turnouts, feeding program and on and on. Are there other horses there for training? How long have they been there? Could you try to talk with one of the owners about your trainer and how he cares for the horses he's working with? What do those horses look like? How did you find your trainer? Does he have references from someone you know and trust? I've heard too many stories about unreputable trainers, so I'm extra cautious when it comes to finding one. Anyway, I say go with your gut feelings and don't second guess yourself. That little voice in your head is there for a reason. __________________ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.

11-10-2006, 04:17 PM
Miichelle Started Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central Idaho Posts: 2,272	I agree with EquineAlberta that it is private property and you don't have the right to show up anytime, BUT scheduling an appointment a week later doesn't set right with me. I wouldn't want people wandering around my property at all hours, but training horses is a business and he should have business hours that clients can show up at the barn. If I show up at my trainer's barn unexpectedly my mare's stall might not be spottless, but my WHITE horse is always reasonably clean (not green!) and is happily looking for carrots from anyone passing by...

11-10-2006, 04:42 PM
recklesshoundog Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NY Posts: 2,549	I think if you had just asked to stop by and see him, it might not have been a big deal. But you did mention that you wanted to ride, which in the first week a horse is away might be. Most trainers don't remember the new horses names for a while. For the couple of weeks, it's "get the new one" until they become familiar. Training isn't really like boarding. You've turned over control of your horse to the trainer. If he's good, he probably has clients stopping by for their appts and it would be wrong for him to ignore them to pay attention to the owner that just popped in. Popping in to say hi and visit your boy is fine, but if you want to discuss your horse or see him worked, an appointment is the correct way to do it. Scheduling an appt for next week doesn't sound unreasonable, after all it's friday, next week is only two days away. The trainer I used for my boys this summer when I was working such busy schedule, worked from 9 am until 6pm. I usually didn't get done with work until 6pm and by the time I drove to see the boys, the trainer was usually gone. He had a family and dinner together was important to them, as it should be. I had to schedule my appts with him to get my lessons on my boys. But there was never an issue with me just popping in to say hi to them on my schedule. With that said, I do agree if your feeling uncomfortable with the stalling, and other issues....check on him. The short turn out time isn't such a big thing like if the others said, he's being worked daily. The small stall would concern me too. Risk of getting cast is much greater in a too small of a stall. Your a paying client, request a larger stall and be ready to pay if necessary. I hate having my horses anywhere but home....but sometimes it's unavoidable. Good luck and I hope your bad feelings are just baby away jitters.

11-12-2006, 09:31 AM
barnmom Coming two Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: northeast pennsylvania Posts: 1,876	how did you find this trainer? did you see the size of the stalls? my gracie is starting training next month and i spoke to the trainer for 45 minutes on the phone i'm going to check the place out and i have already heard great things about him recommended by my farrier but i will check it and him out first "before" he gets my girl i would remove my horse from that environment asap, i would just pop in for a visit, that is your horse and you are paying for him notonly to train but to take care of your horse in a humane way

11-13-2006, 09:42 AM
Hideaway Started Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: PA Posts: 2,053	I am going to speak with him today. It is not ok to ask me to see my horse at the end of the next week. Yes, I'm being nervous but I am very anal about how my horses are cared for and I'm not used to them being away from home. Luckily Drafty, he doesn't have an orange trailer or a draft horse. My heart sank when I read the first line only to rule it out. This guy is really nice. I had my eye on him for weeks at the auction when he was riding horses through. Nice calm easy temperment. Maybe since I mentioned riding he didn't want me riding when he wasn't there. That's OK. I'm going to talk with him and maybe set a day or two per week so I can brush and see him. Is that fair? Do you think I would be there too much? I wouldn't want to ride just to visit. We can plan ahead for when I want to ride or see him ride. I miss the big fella.

11-13-2006, 10:13 AM
miss leanne Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,532	I wouldn't go out and see him more than once a week. And I wouldn't handle him at ALL... remember, he's there to learn from someone else, and he's adjusting to the trainer's style of handling him... if you go handling him, it may just confuse him and make the time he's spending with the trainer spent more on correcting any confusion rather than learning new things... But that said, I would definantly set up a day where you'll always go and see him worked, once a week, if you're feeling anxious about it. No harm in that. It will probably set all your fears to rest once you see him being ridden by someone else and doing exciting new things. If you feel he's a good trainer, don't second guess yourself until you have actual proof of him NOT being a good one... no sense in borrowing trouble. And after he's been there a month or so, maybe see about riding him in a lesson situation with the trainer... that way, he can teach you how to ride him in the style that he's been trained for, and you can learn what cues he's been teaching him and what they do. It's always hard to see a horse go out for training, especially when they're your 'baby'... but it's for the best. It's like sending your kid out to boarding school. Have faith that the guy knows what he's doing and that you made the right choice. Check on him once a week, that should be enough time to nip any bad problems that might be developing right in the bud. Just my .02 of course.

11-13-2006, 01:55 PM
Hideaway Started Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: PA Posts: 2,053	All is ok for now. It sounds like he's doing really well. I'm headed out tomorrow to watch him ride.

11-13-2006, 02:12 PM
miss leanne Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,532	yay! can't wait for an update about how well he's doing!

11-13-2006, 03:12 PM
Hideaway Started Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: PA Posts: 2,053	Trainer says he misses me. We both misunderstood each other. Sheesh communication is a tricky subj. I will keep you posted