When the horse wants to lead

kilverstone · 10-11-2006, 10:47 AM

So I'm just getting to know my horse but I've noticed two things so far, one he doesn't know the meaning of personal space and two he thinks he is the leader. Mind you I've only been working with him for a week so these are just preliminary observations that may change with more handling. I'm curious to know 1) how you have taught your horse to not step into your space unless invited and 2) to follow instead of lead when you're walking and he's pushing you from behind or keeping pace (and sometimes getting ahead of you).

ChazsNewDestiny · 10-11-2006, 10:57 AM

Good question kilvertone! I have the same problem with my Quarter horse Dakota. I hava noticed he only does this when he is the only horse out. It's almost like he gets nervous or something and his attention isn't focussed on me.

I bought him from and auction . . . I know some people think, BAD IDEA. But other than some minor issues like this one it is the best thing I've ever done! I have always thought it is just something he does. He is a wonderful horse but I would love to be able to correct that.

So lets hear some ideas!!

nomeanjean · 10-11-2006, 11:03 AM

It sounds like this is all respect issues. I would go to the round pen and get some respect. You might try some Clinton Anderson or some Parelli excercises to bring the respect to you.

eieio · 10-11-2006, 11:29 AM

Yes, I agree ground work is the answer. The question you must ask is what are they saying to you:

If they are saying - I Love you! Groom me!

This one is pretty easy, a quick downward pull of a rope halter and a loud voice will make them understand that you are not in the mood for love, you are in the mood for business.

If they are saying - Get out of my way!

This one is respect. This one requires a very natural approach in my book. If this horse did this to an alpha mare, you would be putting boo boo medicine on more than one bite/hoof mark. These require a loud "no" or "arggg" followed by a bump by either a an elbow or a knee and a sharp pull on a stout preferably rope halter.

If they are saying : I am So SCARED, HOLD ME!

This one is the toughest to deal with, there is fear and they trust you to protect them. They are trying to hide behind you like they would their dam. You have to be firm but gentle with these. Again go back to herd dynamics. If a horse gets too close to another horse out of fear, most benovelent leaders will give a little squeal and a little pinned ear to let them know "if you are scared of thet stop and be more scared of ME!

With the scared ones I am very definate in how close I let them get to me. If they get in my space even if they are being so cute I cannot stand it, I still point my finger and wiggle my hands to make them back off, while making what I call a negative noise, softly. After they back into their space, I then wait about a minute and enter the space to let him know that I can enter his but he cannot enter mine, because I am alpha.

I hope it helps!

wundahoss · 10-12-2006, 06:15 PM

Hi,

Very basically, make the Wrong things difficult & the Right things easy AND rewarding. Be consistent about the Rules.

I'd start out, and continue trying to focus most on teaching & positively reinforcing(rewarding) the Right behaviour, especially as you're new with eachother, as it will help develop a good relationship. Don't try to focus on correcting the Wrong behaviours, just be ready to if/when necessary, if you get my drift. Reinforce with a treat, scratchie, whatever he likes, *during* the behaviours that you like, such as him standing a foot away from you or such.

Make sure you NEVER inadvertantly positively reinforce the behaviours you want to eliminate. At the start, set up your lessons where possible so that you can minimise the liklihood of Rude behaviours too. For eg. when you begin teaching him to stay at a 'respectful' distance from you & not mug you for attention or treats, put a fence between you or tie him up, so you don't have to make a big deal about it. Once he learns that Good Stuff happens when he is 'polite', he'll be less likely to try getting in your face & then you can meet him on his own side & start to generalise the lesson.

As for correcting the Wrong stuff, aside from never reinforcing it, make it difficult - put a little pressure on him - so that it's not the easiest option. When he quits it, he gets negatively reinforced with the instant removal of that pressure. Also, try to set it up in a manner that HE 'walks into' the pressure, rather than YOU being the punisher, so he definitely blames his own behaviour & not you for the Bad Stuff. You don't even need to look at him while it happens. You can remain apparently seperate from it.

Depending on the horse & situation, I usually find the 'random movement' method a good one, altho this can lead anybody watching to think you're a bit strange

While you're going about your business, 'randomly' wave your arms about occasionally, swat at flies, whatever, within your 'personal bubble'. This will also desensitise your horse to this sort of thing by the way, which is also handy. If the horse gets into your space, oops! he ran into your hand & bumped himself on the nose or wherever.

With the leading thing, if he's behind you & pushing, or just too close, 'randomly' swinging your elbow & occasional abrupt stops or backups(on your part) will cause him to pay attention to you & stay at a safe and 'respectful' distance, and to respond to your bodylanguage - if he doesn't back up when you do for eg, you'll run into him.

When he gets in front of you, you can either ask him to back up, or drive him around you in a circle, back to where you want him.

If you use the corrective measures *if/when necessary* in conjunction with lots of bonding & Good Stuff, you'll soon have an eager, well mannered boy who loves to try to please you.

wundahoss · 10-12-2006, 06:20 PM

Oh, forgot to add to ChazsNewDestiny, that I would agree Dakota's behaviour is most likely nervousness. The above & other *consistent* training will sure help him feel more secure, but I'd also concentrate on as many other exercises to gain his trust & show him that you are listening to him & will protect him. Show him you're even better at looking out for him than another horse!

10-11-2006, 10:47 AM
kilverstone Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 94	When the horse wants to lead So I'm just getting to know my horse but I've noticed two things so far, one he doesn't know the meaning of personal space and two he thinks he is the leader. Mind you I've only been working with him for a week so these are just preliminary observations that may change with more handling. I'm curious to know 1) how you have taught your horse to not step into your space unless invited and 2) to follow instead of lead when you're walking and he's pushing you from behind or keeping pace (and sometimes getting ahead of you).

10-11-2006, 10:57 AM
ChazsNewDestiny Yearling Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 535	Good question kilvertone! I have the same problem with my Quarter horse Dakota. I hava noticed he only does this when he is the only horse out. It's almost like he gets nervous or something and his attention isn't focussed on me. I bought him from and auction . . . I know some people think, BAD IDEA. But other than some minor issues like this one it is the best thing I've ever done! I have always thought it is just something he does. He is a wonderful horse but I would love to be able to correct that. So lets hear some ideas!!

10-11-2006, 11:03 AM
nomeanjean Coming two Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,552	It sounds like this is all respect issues. I would go to the round pen and get some respect. You might try some Clinton Anderson or some Parelli excercises to bring the respect to you. __________________ One of the best things to hold onto in this world is a friend.

10-11-2006, 11:29 AM
eieio Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,138	Yes, I agree ground work is the answer. The question you must ask is what are they saying to you: If they are saying - I Love you! Groom me! This one is pretty easy, a quick downward pull of a rope halter and a loud voice will make them understand that you are not in the mood for love, you are in the mood for business. If they are saying - Get out of my way! This one is respect. This one requires a very natural approach in my book. If this horse did this to an alpha mare, you would be putting boo boo medicine on more than one bite/hoof mark. These require a loud "no" or "arggg" followed by a bump by either a an elbow or a knee and a sharp pull on a stout preferably rope halter. If they are saying : I am So SCARED, HOLD ME! This one is the toughest to deal with, there is fear and they trust you to protect them. They are trying to hide behind you like they would their dam. You have to be firm but gentle with these. Again go back to herd dynamics. If a horse gets too close to another horse out of fear, most benovelent leaders will give a little squeal and a little pinned ear to let them know "if you are scared of thet stop and be more scared of ME! With the scared ones I am very definate in how close I let them get to me. If they get in my space even if they are being so cute I cannot stand it, I still point my finger and wiggle my hands to make them back off, while making what I call a negative noise, softly. After they back into their space, I then wait about a minute and enter the space to let him know that I can enter his but he cannot enter mine, because I am alpha. I hope it helps! __________________ There is no such thing as a always or never in the horse world. Say that one time and some horse some where will prove you wrong!. Visit us at www.woodfoxfarm.com

10-12-2006, 06:15 PM
wundahoss Halter broke Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 138	Hi, Very basically, make the Wrong things difficult & the Right things easy AND rewarding. Be consistent about the Rules. I'd start out, and continue trying to focus most on teaching & positively reinforcing(rewarding) the Right behaviour, especially as you're new with eachother, as it will help develop a good relationship. Don't try to focus on correcting the Wrong behaviours, just be ready to if/when necessary, if you get my drift. Reinforce with a treat, scratchie, whatever he likes, during the behaviours that you like, such as him standing a foot away from you or such. Make sure you NEVER inadvertantly positively reinforce the behaviours you want to eliminate. At the start, set up your lessons where possible so that you can minimise the liklihood of Rude behaviours too. For eg. when you begin teaching him to stay at a 'respectful' distance from you & not mug you for attention or treats, put a fence between you or tie him up, so you don't have to make a big deal about it. Once he learns that Good Stuff happens when he is 'polite', he'll be less likely to try getting in your face & then you can meet him on his own side & start to generalise the lesson. As for correcting the Wrong stuff, aside from never reinforcing it, make it difficult - put a little pressure on him - so that it's not the easiest option. When he quits it, he gets negatively reinforced with the instant removal of that pressure. Also, try to set it up in a manner that HE 'walks into' the pressure, rather than YOU being the punisher, so he definitely blames his own behaviour & not you for the Bad Stuff. You don't even need to look at him while it happens. You can remain apparently seperate from it. Depending on the horse & situation, I usually find the 'random movement' method a good one, altho this can lead anybody watching to think you're a bit strange While you're going about your business, 'randomly' wave your arms about occasionally, swat at flies, whatever, within your 'personal bubble'. This will also desensitise your horse to this sort of thing by the way, which is also handy. If the horse gets into your space, oops! he ran into your hand & bumped himself on the nose or wherever. With the leading thing, if he's behind you & pushing, or just too close, 'randomly' swinging your elbow & occasional abrupt stops or backups(on your part) will cause him to pay attention to you & stay at a safe and 'respectful' distance, and to respond to your bodylanguage - if he doesn't back up when you do for eg, you'll run into him. When he gets in front of you, you can either ask him to back up, or drive him around you in a circle, back to where you want him. If you use the corrective measures if/when necessary in conjunction with lots of bonding & Good Stuff, you'll soon have an eager, well mannered boy who loves to try to please you.

10-12-2006, 06:20 PM
wundahoss Halter broke Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 138	Oh, forgot to add to ChazsNewDestiny, that I would agree Dakota's behaviour is most likely nervousness. The above & other consistent training will sure help him feel more secure, but I'd also concentrate on as many other exercises to gain his trust & show him that you are listening to him & will protect him. Show him you're even better at looking out for him than another horse!