horse keeps backing up and pulling

horsepatty · 08-14-2006, 02:43 PM

Hello fellow horsetopians!

I know I haven't logged on in a while. I've been too busi horsing around.
But now I have a problem I could use a little help with.
So here it is. Last year on one of our horse camping adventures, while we were out on a trail ride. My horse and I encountered a wooden bridge. My horse refused to cross it. He put up quite a fight. I was with a pretty large group with several inexperienced riders so rather then causing a big rukus and/or holding veryone up for a long time while I worked at convencing him to do this thing, I opted to take another route and tackle that bridge another day. So yesterday. My friend and I loaded up my horse (Jake) and another horse that I know would quietly cross the bridge and we headed up there to work this out. I vowed to be patient with him and take as long has it would take to work him through it. After 1 1/2 hours of trying everything I could think of we did not get it done. I gave up when he was dragging me at the end of a rope down the trail in the other direction. And then he got away and left me. My friend went after him but I ended up walking 1/2 way back to the truck all the time thinking OK so now my horse is lost in the state forest. Luckly My friend caught up with him when she came to the first farm along the way that had horses. And there he was making new friends over the fence. Neither of us was seiously injured. I almost had him over that bridge. He had both his front feet on it. But he would get just so far and then start backing up. This boy can go as fast and as far in reverse as he does forward. And if I pull on the rope that just seems to make him back up more pulling me along with him. And then, back at the trailer when it was time to load him to go home he started this backing and pulling thing again. And he has loaded and unloaded in this trailer many time before without a problem. There have been other time when I was on him and when I wasn't that if he didn't want to do something he just starts this backing up thing. I do not know what to do about this. He is so stubburn. This backing up is dangerous. We have backed into many trees, down gullies and slopes and into other riders. But he just keeps doing it. All I want him to do is be a nice trail horse. And for the most part he his a pretty good boy, However, we have a few opsticals to work through yet. Like water crossings, encountering carrages on the trail, and passing cows in a pasture. and least we not forget the bridge. But the minute I ask him to do something he thinks he dosn't want to do he start with this backing up thing.
So does any one out there have any good advise as to how to work through these new optsticals and most importantly what to do about this backing up thing.
I egerly await any reponses.
Thanks
P.S. Parden my spelling.

EquineAlberta · 08-14-2006, 02:47 PM

This sounds like a very complex issue, one which likely starts from the very base of his training. It may be too complex to deal with safetly in the format of a forum.

If you don't have access to a good trainer, then a work at home program such as Parelli may be of good use to you. Although I don't use their program, I have known others that have had amazing success with their horses and with issues that you describe. Their program is not magic, and is somewhat pricey, but it is layed out in a very user friendly and systematic fashion.

Clinton Anderson is also a person who has great books and DVD's that you may find useful.

karen2

horsepatty · 08-14-2006, 03:07 PM

Thanks for your reply

I have spent some time studying some of those programs and tried what they said to do but it isn't helping.
I have a few trainer friends whos help I intend to recrute.
I am planning to attend a clinic by Dennis Ries (NO DUST TOUR) in a few weeks. Maybe I can get some advise there.
It would seems that this horse of mine has some challenging issues.
Just though I would see if anyone out there had something new I could try.

cowgirlmommy · 08-14-2006, 03:46 PM

Hi there! I agree that there are some issues needing to be ironed out! And while the backing up is annoying and unsafe, there are some other things that may help before you even get to the backing up thing! It takes tons of trail miles to make a good trail horse and he seems to need alot more ground work still and as well, alot more miles and doing things he may not want to do! But when the ground work is done well, it will surely make the other issues easier to deal with, I hope! My 12 year old TB mare had a bit issue and had been injured in her mouth prior to me getting her and the backing up and stopping she was doing stopped the second we used a snaffle,as it was easier and gentle on her mouth even though I am lighthanded anyways, she was that sensitive. Good luck and you are definitely going to be well served going to any type of teachings or clinics! Have fun and let us know how you make out!

thumpersgirl · 08-14-2006, 03:55 PM

I've got a horse that does the same thing when he doesn't want to do something. What we're doing with him is starting all over with the ground work. We've been working with him for about 2-1/2 months now and he's getting better about it. Also, when he starts backing and shaking his head we make him keep backing up until we want him to stop. He has realized that it's not so fun when we make him do it. Good luck with your horse.

EquineAlberta · 08-14-2006, 04:03 PM

I would worry about a horse rearing if you forced it to back up while on its back.

I think with any of the Natural Horsemanship stuff, you have to be prepared to start back at the beginning like thumpersgirl is doing. By starting from the beginning you will likely find more holes in his training, and be able to fill them all.

He likely has the issue due to something bad that happened or due to shortcuts taken in his training. Work back from the ground up and you and your horse will have more confidence.

Think of it as rebuilding a house damaged by a tornado vs just patching the holes...the rebuilt house will be much more sturdy then the patched one!

Karen2

Karen2

tuffsmom · 08-14-2006, 04:54 PM

I would start on the ground work. Tuff use to back up real fast either on the ground or when you were in the saddle. The first backing up problem we stopped was when we were outside spraying him off. He took off backing as fast as he could. He did it twice then had someone with more experience work with him. It finally took some one to swat his big rear end as he started the backing. He jumped forward and never tried it again.

I have spent many hours teaching him on the ground. He has learned that it's not fun to keep backing. If you can, get help. It really helps to have other opinions on how to stop all the nonsense.

thumpersgirl · 08-14-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EquineAlberta

I would worry about a horse rearing if you forced it to back up while on its back.Karen2

I agree...never thought to put in my post that we make Tuffy back up only when no one is on him. Different story if someone is in the saddle.

horsepatty · 08-14-2006, 09:50 PM

Thanks for all the responses.
I have tried backing him on purpuse. We end up running out of room. He went back more then he would go forward and we lost ground. I even tried backing him over the bridge but he just stopped and wouldn't move or kept turning around. We tried the swat on the butt thing too. It had no effect. He just turns his but in another direction and keeps backing up. I even tried putting a butt rope around his rear like we did when he was a baby learning to lead. That helped some. That got him up to the edge of the bridge but then he just stood there and would move or went sideways and tried to turn around. He's a real stinker. Pretty flexable too. He does need to get some more trail miles on him. This weekend we plan to tackles the water crossing. Maybe it's the water that has him worried. We found a place with plenty of water and space to work. And his pal (Buddy) loves the water, maybe that will help. I do agree we could go back to the beggining and go over some of the basics again. Some where along the line he learned this and now it is up to me to figure out how to fix it. I really like the horse and want to get this resovled.
Thanks for your tips.

dodib · 08-15-2006, 06:52 AM

AS far as the bridge goes I would start at home. Build a type of bridge--use wood pallets or something--even just a sheet of wood and practice in a controlled environment that he is comfortable with first. After he is going over it fine at home then trailer him and try the real thing

carlagsd · 08-15-2006, 07:09 AM

Our little mare did the same thing last year when we asked her to cross a river. All the other horses went over fine but my daughter, who was 9 at the time couldn't get her mare to cross. After way too much backing up, which was the mares way of saying "No", I got on and tried. Same thing. One of the other riders got on and tried. Nope. Lots of cantering, backing, walking to the edge of the river, but this mare wasn't gonna go no matter what. She didn't care that all the other horses were on the other side. Now, I'm thinking to myself, I started a battle that I had to win, so I wasn't going to give up until we got her across. After about an hour, with the other riders patiently waiting on the other side, we ended up ponying her across. She went without a fuss and we contiued our ride. On the way home she crossed without any fuss, the brat!

Maybe you could get someone to pony him across a bunch of times so he can see the bridge won't hurt him.

horsepatty · 08-19-2006, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodib

AS far as the bridge goes I would start at home. Build a type of bridge--use wood pallets or something--even just a sheet of wood and practice in a controlled environment that he is comfortable with first. After he is going over it fine at home then trailer him and try the real thing

We built a really nice bridge at home out of 2x12s and he walked rite over it no problem.

Now I have a really nice bridge and nothing to use it four.
Guess I could donate it to the 4h club.

ron · 08-19-2006, 07:46 AM

your gave up after just an hour and a half?

patience patience patience.

take the horse to a ""short"" bridge that he will not cross or has trouble with anong with halter lead rope and a 5 gallon buckt

remove bridle and put on halter and a 16 ft or so long lead rope

remove saddle and blanket and give horse a nice rubbing

lead the horse towards the bridge and stop where he starts to feel uncomfortable, bive him a pat to reassure him.

with bucket jin one hand, walk near to the end of the lead rope. Place bucket on ground upside down and have a seat. Eo not force the horse to come forward aor coax him. He will not want to be alone and will start to come to you after awhile. When he gets to you, give him a pat for reassurance and let him stand awhile to relax and gain confidence. Repeat until you are sitting on the very beginning of the bridge. When at the bridge beginning, stop for quite a while and let him get used to it and find out the bridge will not eat him.

next go about 6-8 feet onto the bridge and have a seat. He may walk around paw a little bit, step on, step off, but he should come to you. That is enough for one day if he is really nervous or anxious at that point.

Then go back the next day and it will be easier to get just onto the bridge.
do not attempt to go across untill he is really comfortable just being at the beginning. You cant rush this or force this.

IT HAS TO BE HIS IDEA.

It may take 2 sessions, or it make take 8 ir 10 or more.

As it is in all aspects of horse training...

baby steps and patience.

shayla · 08-19-2006, 08:03 AM

Wooden brides are SCARY!!

I happened to be really lucky and stumbled across one near the old place we used to board at.

I guess I'm lucky as well that really all I had to do was dismount and lead him across. He didn't like it when we first did it, but eventually realized it was just really noisy. We did a lot of crossing it back and forth that day, and then anytime I took him out, we would ride across it to reinforce the lesson.

I'm with the others; sounds like he needs groundwork, groundwork and more groundwork, and maybe he's just not sure yet that he can trust you to keep him safe in such a situation? I'm not saying he doesn't trust you, but I think the reason I got so lucky with my horse is that his previous owners got him to the point that in many ways he trusts people to protect him (especially on the ground-we're working on him trusting us when we're mounted).

I'd definately try ron's suggestion as well! *files it away for future reference*

Knightrider · 08-20-2006, 06:32 AM

Ron's idea is a great one. I had a young filly that would not cross water without other horses along, but I mostly rode alone. An elderly trainer told me to take a halter, long leadrope, a good book and a lunch. Cross the obstacle, leave her on the other side, and turn my back to her. After about 2 hours, she got tired of me ignoring her. She was very smart. She bounced across the water, gave me a kiss, bounded back, bounded across again, bounded back 6 times. She knew very well what I wanted and showed me she was OK WITH IT!! Never had another problem with her crossing water or anything else. Kept that mare all her life and miss her still, 20 years later. Knightrider

Drafty · 08-20-2006, 06:53 AM

I didn't have time to read all the responses, but from what I did read, you've gotten a lot of good advice already! The backing up behavior that you described is dangerous. I would stick an experienced rider on your horse, and have them put him in a situation where he's going to back up, then have something extremely unpleasant happen to his behind the moment he starts to back up. This will cause most horses to stop the backing up behavior after being "goosed" a few times. Make it really unpleasant and completely out of the blue, but don't get abusive. If it doesn't work the first few times, your horse might try to strike, although I've only had one that didn't get the idea pretty quick. This will not solve your horse's fear of the bridge, but it will end the backing up in all situations. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

fattylumpkin · 08-30-2006, 05:33 PM

Negative reinforcement training doesn't work for all horses, such as the example of giving him a good slap on the rear with a crop. I think it's evident your horse would let you get to the point of flailing the bejabbers out of him before he'd give in. And that's certainly not an option.

When I come to a situation like this, I think of ways I can make it a positive experience. What he needs is incentive to work with you. I resort to treats. Here's what I'd do. Start a good distance away from the bridge, in hand. Have him walk up a few steps, "whoa" and give a treat. Do this repeatedly, walk up, whoa, treat- all the time getting closer and closer to the bridge.

When you get there, pay attention to his body language. If he seems in a good state of mind, cue him to step up. If he steps up just one step, immediately release any pressure on the lead, say whoa and give a treat. Now, turn him around and start all over again. Quit while you're ahead and each time you should be able to get him to walk up on the bridge further and further. Try to predict his tolerance level and go back to "start" just before he freaks out. It could take some time as he's learned that what he did with you last time- backed and refused - worked for him. You might need to make a couple of sessions out of it. There's no need to make him cross the entire bridge the first time. What you're doing, mostly, is building his confidence.

The key is- don't keep pushing him until HE decides to quit. Show him you won't push him beyond his comfort zone and at the same time, YOU call the shots. Horses need to know you'll keep them "safe" and won't ask more of them then what they can do. Just like a logger in the woods wouldn't make his team pull more of a load then they thought they could handle. Don't jeapordize his trust in you by pushing him beyond his comfort zone. Take it one small step at a time.

This type of training is a bit nansy-pansy for some folks. But I've worked with some abused and balky animals that respond extremely well to it. Good luck!

Luv2Ride · 08-30-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fattylumpkin

Negative reinforcement training doesn't work for all horses, such as the example of giving him a good slap on the rear with a crop. I think it's evident your horse would let you get to the point of flailing the bejabbers out of him before he'd give in. And that's certainly not an option....

When I come to a situation like this, I think of ways I can make it a positive experience. What he needs is incentive to work with you.

I agree with fattylumpkin here. I, myself, however, am not a big treat user in training. In a nutshell, I do think you can make the bridge crossing a positive experience for your horse by making the alternative difficult: work that boy if he won't do what you want until crossing that bridge is an escape from work. Or at least at first until setting foot on that bridge is the escape. I did mean that this is the "in a nutshell," though. Like someone previously mentioned, this is too big and too serious a problem to try to solve it in the forum. But you can begin working towards solving it by getting a trainer's help or going back to basics with, say, trailer loading with guidance material (books, DVDs) from someone like Clinton Anderson.

Whatever you decide to do, please let us know and tell us how it goes!

08-14-2006, 02:43 PM
horsepatty Newborn Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 21	horse keeps backing up and pulling Hello fellow horsetopians! I know I haven't logged on in a while. I've been too busi horsing around. But now I have a problem I could use a little help with. So here it is. Last year on one of our horse camping adventures, while we were out on a trail ride. My horse and I encountered a wooden bridge. My horse refused to cross it. He put up quite a fight. I was with a pretty large group with several inexperienced riders so rather then causing a big rukus and/or holding veryone up for a long time while I worked at convencing him to do this thing, I opted to take another route and tackle that bridge another day. So yesterday. My friend and I loaded up my horse (Jake) and another horse that I know would quietly cross the bridge and we headed up there to work this out. I vowed to be patient with him and take as long has it would take to work him through it. After 1 1/2 hours of trying everything I could think of we did not get it done. I gave up when he was dragging me at the end of a rope down the trail in the other direction. And then he got away and left me. My friend went after him but I ended up walking 1/2 way back to the truck all the time thinking OK so now my horse is lost in the state forest. Luckly My friend caught up with him when she came to the first farm along the way that had horses. And there he was making new friends over the fence. Neither of us was seiously injured. I almost had him over that bridge. He had both his front feet on it. But he would get just so far and then start backing up. This boy can go as fast and as far in reverse as he does forward. And if I pull on the rope that just seems to make him back up more pulling me along with him. And then, back at the trailer when it was time to load him to go home he started this backing and pulling thing again. And he has loaded and unloaded in this trailer many time before without a problem. There have been other time when I was on him and when I wasn't that if he didn't want to do something he just starts this backing up thing. I do not know what to do about this. He is so stubburn. This backing up is dangerous. We have backed into many trees, down gullies and slopes and into other riders. But he just keeps doing it. All I want him to do is be a nice trail horse. And for the most part he his a pretty good boy, However, we have a few opsticals to work through yet. Like water crossings, encountering carrages on the trail, and passing cows in a pasture. and least we not forget the bridge. But the minute I ask him to do something he thinks he dosn't want to do he start with this backing up thing. So does any one out there have any good advise as to how to work through these new optsticals and most importantly what to do about this backing up thing. I egerly await any reponses. Thanks P.S. Parden my spelling. __________________ So may horses, so little time.

08-14-2006, 02:47 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,691	This sounds like a very complex issue, one which likely starts from the very base of his training. It may be too complex to deal with safetly in the format of a forum. If you don't have access to a good trainer, then a work at home program such as Parelli may be of good use to you. Although I don't use their program, I have known others that have had amazing success with their horses and with issues that you describe. Their program is not magic, and is somewhat pricey, but it is layed out in a very user friendly and systematic fashion. Clinton Anderson is also a person who has great books and DVD's that you may find useful. karen2 __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB CHT Horse Stories!

08-14-2006, 03:07 PM
horsepatty Newborn Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 21	Thanks for your reply I have spent some time studying some of those programs and tried what they said to do but it isn't helping. I have a few trainer friends whos help I intend to recrute. I am planning to attend a clinic by Dennis Ries (NO DUST TOUR) in a few weeks. Maybe I can get some advise there. It would seems that this horse of mine has some challenging issues. Just though I would see if anyone out there had something new I could try. __________________ So may horses, so little time.

08-14-2006, 03:46 PM
cowgirlmommy Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Rocky Mountains of British Columbia! Posts: 1,459	Hi there! I agree that there are some issues needing to be ironed out! And while the backing up is annoying and unsafe, there are some other things that may help before you even get to the backing up thing! It takes tons of trail miles to make a good trail horse and he seems to need alot more ground work still and as well, alot more miles and doing things he may not want to do! But when the ground work is done well, it will surely make the other issues easier to deal with, I hope! My 12 year old TB mare had a bit issue and had been injured in her mouth prior to me getting her and the backing up and stopping she was doing stopped the second we used a snaffle,as it was easier and gentle on her mouth even though I am lighthanded anyways, she was that sensitive. Good luck and you are definitely going to be well served going to any type of teachings or clinics! Have fun and let us know how you make out! __________________ "The only way to begin again, is to first forget..." Colonel Francis Clay Mosby

08-14-2006, 03:55 PM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,515	I've got a horse that does the same thing when he doesn't want to do something. What we're doing with him is starting all over with the ground work. We've been working with him for about 2-1/2 months now and he's getting better about it. Also, when he starts backing and shaking his head we make him keep backing up until we want him to stop. He has realized that it's not so fun when we make him do it. Good luck with your horse. __________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs.

08-14-2006, 04:03 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,691	I would worry about a horse rearing if you forced it to back up while on its back. I think with any of the Natural Horsemanship stuff, you have to be prepared to start back at the beginning like thumpersgirl is doing. By starting from the beginning you will likely find more holes in his training, and be able to fill them all. He likely has the issue due to something bad that happened or due to shortcuts taken in his training. Work back from the ground up and you and your horse will have more confidence. Think of it as rebuilding a house damaged by a tornado vs just patching the holes...the rebuilt house will be much more sturdy then the patched one! Karen2 Karen2 __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB CHT Horse Stories!

08-14-2006, 04:54 PM
tuffsmom Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 4,251	I would start on the ground work. Tuff use to back up real fast either on the ground or when you were in the saddle. The first backing up problem we stopped was when we were outside spraying him off. He took off backing as fast as he could. He did it twice then had someone with more experience work with him. It finally took some one to swat his big rear end as he started the backing. He jumped forward and never tried it again. I have spent many hours teaching him on the ground. He has learned that it's not fun to keep backing. If you can, get help. It really helps to have other opinions on how to stop all the nonsense.

08-14-2006, 09:50 PM
horsepatty Newborn Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 21	Thanks for all the responses. I have tried backing him on purpuse. We end up running out of room. He went back more then he would go forward and we lost ground. I even tried backing him over the bridge but he just stopped and wouldn't move or kept turning around. We tried the swat on the butt thing too. It had no effect. He just turns his but in another direction and keeps backing up. I even tried putting a butt rope around his rear like we did when he was a baby learning to lead. That helped some. That got him up to the edge of the bridge but then he just stood there and would move or went sideways and tried to turn around. He's a real stinker. Pretty flexable too. He does need to get some more trail miles on him. This weekend we plan to tackles the water crossing. Maybe it's the water that has him worried. We found a place with plenty of water and space to work. And his pal (Buddy) loves the water, maybe that will help. I do agree we could go back to the beggining and go over some of the basics again. Some where along the line he learned this and now it is up to me to figure out how to fix it. I really like the horse and want to get this resovled. Thanks for your tips. __________________ So may horses, so little time.

08-15-2006, 06:52 AM
dodib Started Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ravenna, MI Posts: 2,671	AS far as the bridge goes I would start at home. Build a type of bridge--use wood pallets or something--even just a sheet of wood and practice in a controlled environment that he is comfortable with first. After he is going over it fine at home then trailer him and try the real thing __________________ Dorthy www.freewebs.com/brownranch/

08-15-2006, 07:09 AM
carlagsd Yearling Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 730	Our little mare did the same thing last year when we asked her to cross a river. All the other horses went over fine but my daughter, who was 9 at the time couldn't get her mare to cross. After way too much backing up, which was the mares way of saying "No", I got on and tried. Same thing. One of the other riders got on and tried. Nope. Lots of cantering, backing, walking to the edge of the river, but this mare wasn't gonna go no matter what. She didn't care that all the other horses were on the other side. Now, I'm thinking to myself, I started a battle that I had to win, so I wasn't going to give up until we got her across. After about an hour, with the other riders patiently waiting on the other side, we ended up ponying her across. She went without a fuss and we contiued our ride. On the way home she crossed without any fuss, the brat! Maybe you could get someone to pony him across a bunch of times so he can see the bridge won't hurt him.

08-19-2006, 07:46 AM
ron Started Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 2,649	your gave up after just an hour and a half? patience patience patience. take the horse to a ""short"" bridge that he will not cross or has trouble with anong with halter lead rope and a 5 gallon buckt remove bridle and put on halter and a 16 ft or so long lead rope remove saddle and blanket and give horse a nice rubbing lead the horse towards the bridge and stop where he starts to feel uncomfortable, bive him a pat to reassure him. with bucket jin one hand, walk near to the end of the lead rope. Place bucket on ground upside down and have a seat. Eo not force the horse to come forward aor coax him. He will not want to be alone and will start to come to you after awhile. When he gets to you, give him a pat for reassurance and let him stand awhile to relax and gain confidence. Repeat until you are sitting on the very beginning of the bridge. When at the bridge beginning, stop for quite a while and let him get used to it and find out the bridge will not eat him. next go about 6-8 feet onto the bridge and have a seat. He may walk around paw a little bit, step on, step off, but he should come to you. That is enough for one day if he is really nervous or anxious at that point. Then go back the next day and it will be easier to get just onto the bridge. do not attempt to go across untill he is really comfortable just being at the beginning. You cant rush this or force this. IT HAS TO BE HIS IDEA. It may take 2 sessions, or it make take 8 ir 10 or more. As it is in all aspects of horse training... baby steps and patience. __________________ Well now boogie little baby, boogie woogie all night long. A haw, haw, haw, haw, a haw.

08-19-2006, 08:03 AM
shayla Coming two Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wichita, Ks Posts: 1,717	Wooden brides are SCARY!! I happened to be really lucky and stumbled across one near the old place we used to board at. I guess I'm lucky as well that really all I had to do was dismount and lead him across. He didn't like it when we first did it, but eventually realized it was just really noisy. We did a lot of crossing it back and forth that day, and then anytime I took him out, we would ride across it to reinforce the lesson. I'm with the others; sounds like he needs groundwork, groundwork and more groundwork, and maybe he's just not sure yet that he can trust you to keep him safe in such a situation? I'm not saying he doesn't trust you, but I think the reason I got so lucky with my horse is that his previous owners got him to the point that in many ways he trusts people to protect him (especially on the ground-we're working on him trusting us when we're mounted). I'd definately try ron's suggestion as well! files it away for future reference __________________ "Oftentime, the notion of "Following one's heart" is used as an excuse to avoid doing what is best because it's to hard or to complicated." ~David Hopkins

08-20-2006, 06:32 AM
Knightrider Weanling Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hildreth, Florida Posts: 364	Ron's idea is a great one. I had a young filly that would not cross water without other horses along, but I mostly rode alone. An elderly trainer told me to take a halter, long leadrope, a good book and a lunch. Cross the obstacle, leave her on the other side, and turn my back to her. After about 2 hours, she got tired of me ignoring her. She was very smart. She bounced across the water, gave me a kiss, bounded back, bounded across again, bounded back 6 times. She knew very well what I wanted and showed me she was OK WITH IT!! Never had another problem with her crossing water or anything else. Kept that mare all her life and miss her still, 20 years later. Knightrider __________________ Before each ride, I think to myself, "I hope no one tells me I am 'a heck of a rider.'."

08-20-2006, 06:53 AM
Drafty Long Yearling Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,106	I didn't have time to read all the responses, but from what I did read, you've gotten a lot of good advice already! The backing up behavior that you described is dangerous. I would stick an experienced rider on your horse, and have them put him in a situation where he's going to back up, then have something extremely unpleasant happen to his behind the moment he starts to back up. This will cause most horses to stop the backing up behavior after being "goosed" a few times. Make it really unpleasant and completely out of the blue, but don't get abusive. If it doesn't work the first few times, your horse might try to strike, although I've only had one that didn't get the idea pretty quick. This will not solve your horse's fear of the bridge, but it will end the backing up in all situations. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. __________________ "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." - Mahatma Gandhi

08-30-2006, 05:33 PM
fattylumpkin Newborn Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 24	Negative reinforcement training doesn't work for all horses, such as the example of giving him a good slap on the rear with a crop. I think it's evident your horse would let you get to the point of flailing the bejabbers out of him before he'd give in. And that's certainly not an option. When I come to a situation like this, I think of ways I can make it a positive experience. What he needs is incentive to work with you. I resort to treats. Here's what I'd do. Start a good distance away from the bridge, in hand. Have him walk up a few steps, "whoa" and give a treat. Do this repeatedly, walk up, whoa, treat- all the time getting closer and closer to the bridge. When you get there, pay attention to his body language. If he seems in a good state of mind, cue him to step up. If he steps up just one step, immediately release any pressure on the lead, say whoa and give a treat. Now, turn him around and start all over again. Quit while you're ahead and each time you should be able to get him to walk up on the bridge further and further. Try to predict his tolerance level and go back to "start" just before he freaks out. It could take some time as he's learned that what he did with you last time- backed and refused - worked for him. You might need to make a couple of sessions out of it. There's no need to make him cross the entire bridge the first time. What you're doing, mostly, is building his confidence. The key is- don't keep pushing him until HE decides to quit. Show him you won't push him beyond his comfort zone and at the same time, YOU call the shots. Horses need to know you'll keep them "safe" and won't ask more of them then what they can do. Just like a logger in the woods wouldn't make his team pull more of a load then they thought they could handle. Don't jeapordize his trust in you by pushing him beyond his comfort zone. Take it one small step at a time. This type of training is a bit nansy-pansy for some folks. But I've worked with some abused and balky animals that respond extremely well to it. Good luck!