Training an older horse to ride/ Rider's weight issue.

Luv2Game · 07-21-2006, 01:54 AM

OK, another question. I have been reading the post entitled, "Am I too heavy too ride" and i seen several people who wrote that an Arab shouldn't even be broke to ride until age 5 or 6, because of their leg joints not being closed yet. Someone wrote they even grow until they are 7. I am 200+lbs. Here is my question. I consider myself a fairly experianced rider. I am looking to buy a horse and i want an Arab, however i am on a budget. I found a couple of Arab Mares that are in my price range, they are 6 and 8 years old. Neither have been broke to ride, but have been saddled, and they have had someone ground driving them, lunge work, etc. I think the owners just have too many horses. One is 15h(6yr. old) and the other is 15.2h(8yr. old).

So my question is: 1.) Is it preferred then that these mares have not been broke yet because of the fact they are arab and still growing???and at their age and height, it is ok for someone like myself to do the training?????(I plan on losing at least 40 lbs.)
2.) Are there any problems that are forseen beings they are older and not been ridden as of yet. I have trained before and feel comfortable doing it. I have owned many horses before, i just do not own one presently. I want a "project". (I want to get into Reining eventually, hence my other question/post about confirmation for reining) So I would want to train the mare for reining down the road once she is well broke otherwise.

I am going to list some of the pedigree below, they have the same sire. If you recognize any of the names and know anything, that would be great!! By the way, one is an arab and one is half-arab. Thanks!!!!

Pedigree from sire:
Faaris
Princeton Faaris
Blacklord Arabi
Black Arabi-Czar
Shilo Dancer
Shilos Midnight

Arab Dam:
Khemosabi
Rho-Sabee
BR Khalee

QH Dam:
Two-Eyed Jack
Showdown
Watch Joe Showdown
Dondi Jo Jack

I have sent an inquiry to the seller for pics and additional info. Sorry if this is under the wrong heading. It is kinda a training question and a buying a horse question. SO feel free to move it if needed!!

Thanks so much everyone in advance!!

**gbarmranch** · 07-21-2006, 05:07 AM

Good pedigrees - and if they have been driven, saddled, etc.., they should be fairly easy to break out. The biggest question with an older horse to me is flexibility - can they flex that neck for smooth transitions - if not it may take a little longer to have them legged up. As for reining, you want a shorter horse (the 15 hands might work) with a good butt that can really get under herself - deep hocks, the ability to pivot off the hind quarters, so we are looking at something shorter backed - and the natural athletic ability to slide and move for reining. Age wise, should be good - all bones are hardned - but sometimes the mind in an older horse takes a little longer to jump start, and sometimes it doesn't! You would really need to visit and see if they have the attitude you want!

snickers · 07-21-2006, 07:01 AM

Actually, they are not that old, and that is the norm for that breed.

I would rather take one at that age that has not had much or anything done than a young one that has the wrong training or rough hands, etc., etc., anyday.

IMO, it is no different training an older horse than a younger horse.
Have done both. They each have their issues.

**gbarmranch** · 07-21-2006, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snickers

Actually, they are not that old, and that is the norm for that breed.

I would rather take one at that age that has not had much or anything done than a young one that has the wrong training or rough hands, etc., etc., anyday.

IMO, it is no different training an older horse than a younger horse.
Have done both. They each have their issues.

So for arabs it is a normal age to start them older? The only arabs I have ever owned were older and semi trained by the time I got them - different then QHs - although we do not start them hard as 2 and 3 year olds as some folks do - they are not expected to really work until they are five or so - when mind and body seem to catch up. But they are broke to ride for light riding, walk trot, flexing, etc..as 2 and 3 year olds!! This is interesting - learn something new every day - thanks Snickers!

Luv2Game · 07-21-2006, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbarmranch

Quote:

Originally Posted by snickers

Actually, they are not that old, and that is the norm for that breed.

I would rather take one at that age that has not had much or anything done than a young one that has the wrong training or rough hands, etc., etc., anyday.

IMO, it is no different training an older horse than a younger horse.
Have done both. They each have their issues.

So for arabs it is a normal age to start them older? The only arabs I have ever owned were older and semi trained by the time I got them - different then QHs - although we do not start them hard as 2 and 3 year olds as some folks do - they are not expected to really work until they are five or so - when mind and body seem to catch up. But they are broke to ride for light riding, walk trot, flexing, etc..as 2 and 3 year olds!! This is interesting - learn something new every day - thanks Snickers!

I do not want to get off the topic of my question, but, talking about ages to break out horses, howcome race horses are racing hard at 2 years of age, and then retired not too long after that??? Seems a hazard to their health, and a waste to just "dispose of them" so early.

DO thoroughbreds mature faster than other breeds?? But they do the same with QH racers. Race them hard at age 2. Just a though.

**gbarmranch** · 07-21-2006, 08:00 AM

I believe it is a money issue, and no, they are not always sound after their track careers - just take a look at the ones who have been injured this year! The same thing in reining and cutting - to make money, the breeders start them under saddle at 18 months, and are competing on them at three - hard....many of these horses are totally crippled by the time they are 8. We train for roping, cutting (no reining yet, but you never know) and start them with a saddle at between 18 mos and two - but not with a rider yet. When they are ridden, it depends on each individual horses build and mental readiness - and them it is done very slowly - no tight circles, mostly a walk, a little troting, and exposure to everything we can think of. We will usually do 30 days on, and 30 days off, if they are our horses, for a year - then 60 days at three - sometimes giving them the whole summer off and riding only in the spring and fall. We will start tracking cattle at three, and loping some - at four we feel that the mind and body are ready for asking them to start perfecting their skills, but not for long periods of training at a time - by five, they should be good to go!

Jumping compitions don't usually expect a good horse until they are 10 or so - reason being soundness issues and the mind - people tend to forget that just becasue a horse is big in size as a youngster, their minds have not usually caught up - and you can really burn a horse out with high level training too young, too fast!

Sorry - didn't mean to be so long winded - just a pet peeve of mine that horses are often expected to do too much too early, and then end up having their lives cut short because they are crippled at 8

The racing industry is a biggie in this!

Drafty · 07-21-2006, 08:11 AM

I say go for it. If I remember correctly I waited until my Quarter Horse/Arabian cross filly was five or six to saddle break her. She took it like a pro, because she was mentally, as well as physically, mature. My instructor says that most mares mature [physically] slower than their male counterparts. I tend to believe it, as the Quarab I mentioned above did not stop growing until she was 7-ish.

**TDH** · 07-21-2006, 08:19 AM

I have a black gelding and a grey filly; the filly will be 3 in March and the gelding will be 3 in April. I plan to introduce them to the saddle and bridle and begin groundwork on them this fall. Next fall is when I anticipate first getting into the saddle with them, and maybe short rides around the pasture if I feel they're ready.... but will wait until the following summer that they're 4, before taking them on any longer rides---and then ONLY easy rides, yet. No tough trails, fast rides, all-day rides, etc.

By the time they're 5, their backs will have begun closing up. Only about by the age of 6 will I feel at ease going on long trail rides, etc.

It's true, some Arabs mature very late. My husband's gelding REALLY was 8 years old before he truly stopped filling out!

So he was a late bloomer. My filly who will be 3 in March, is BIG (for an Arab) and people around here will be looking at me funny when I take her out as a 4 year old for the first time, and wonder why I waited so long. So, it does depend a bit on the individual, too.

When it comes to intense work, be it jumping, reining, what-have-you... I would not want to start a horse with that until they're about 7 just to be SURE I've given them plenty of time to mature and not run the risk of breakdown due to early stress on the joints etc. But, that's just me.

Gbarmranch is right. Racing is ALL about the money, how quickly they can get the animal moving around the track at the fastest speed. I have a friend who used to work as a groom at the Santa Anita--believe me, it's all about the money.

07-21-2006, 01:54 AM
Luv2Game Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,424	Training an older horse to ride/ Rider's weight issue. OK, another question. I have been reading the post entitled, "Am I too heavy too ride" and i seen several people who wrote that an Arab shouldn't even be broke to ride until age 5 or 6, because of their leg joints not being closed yet. Someone wrote they even grow until they are 7. I am 200+lbs. Here is my question. I consider myself a fairly experianced rider. I am looking to buy a horse and i want an Arab, however i am on a budget. I found a couple of Arab Mares that are in my price range, they are 6 and 8 years old. Neither have been broke to ride, but have been saddled, and they have had someone ground driving them, lunge work, etc. I think the owners just have too many horses. One is 15h(6yr. old) and the other is 15.2h(8yr. old). So my question is: 1.) Is it preferred then that these mares have not been broke yet because of the fact they are arab and still growing???and at their age and height, it is ok for someone like myself to do the training?????(I plan on losing at least 40 lbs.) 2.) Are there any problems that are forseen beings they are older and not been ridden as of yet. I have trained before and feel comfortable doing it. I have owned many horses before, i just do not own one presently. I want a "project". (I want to get into Reining eventually, hence my other question/post about confirmation for reining) So I would want to train the mare for reining down the road once she is well broke otherwise. I am going to list some of the pedigree below, they have the same sire. If you recognize any of the names and know anything, that would be great!! By the way, one is an arab and one is half-arab. Thanks!!!! Pedigree from sire: Faaris Princeton Faaris Blacklord Arabi Black Arabi-Czar Shilo Dancer Shilos Midnight Arab Dam: Khemosabi Rho-Sabee BR Khalee QH Dam: Two-Eyed Jack Showdown Watch Joe Showdown Dondi Jo Jack I have sent an inquiry to the seller for pics and additional info. Sorry if this is under the wrong heading. It is kinda a training question and a buying a horse question. SO feel free to move it if needed!! Thanks so much everyone in advance!!

07-21-2006, 05:07 AM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mayberry Posts: 29,575	Good pedigrees - and if they have been driven, saddled, etc.., they should be fairly easy to break out. The biggest question with an older horse to me is flexibility - can they flex that neck for smooth transitions - if not it may take a little longer to have them legged up. As for reining, you want a shorter horse (the 15 hands might work) with a good butt that can really get under herself - deep hocks, the ability to pivot off the hind quarters, so we are looking at something shorter backed - and the natural athletic ability to slide and move for reining. Age wise, should be good - all bones are hardned - but sometimes the mind in an older horse takes a little longer to jump start, and sometimes it doesn't! You would really need to visit and see if they have the attitude you want! __________________ Quality Foundation Quarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never point in the wrong direction.

07-21-2006, 07:01 AM
snickers Bombproof Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Twilight Zone Posts: 8,989	Actually, they are not that old, and that is the norm for that breed. I would rather take one at that age that has not had much or anything done than a young one that has the wrong training or rough hands, etc., etc., anyday. IMO, it is no different training an older horse than a younger horse. Have done both. They each have their issues. __________________ " You cant fix stupid " Ron White Life is to short to argue with ignorant people.

07-21-2006, 08:00 AM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mayberry Posts: 29,575	I believe it is a money issue, and no, they are not always sound after their track careers - just take a look at the ones who have been injured this year! The same thing in reining and cutting - to make money, the breeders start them under saddle at 18 months, and are competing on them at three - hard....many of these horses are totally crippled by the time they are 8. We train for roping, cutting (no reining yet, but you never know) and start them with a saddle at between 18 mos and two - but not with a rider yet. When they are ridden, it depends on each individual horses build and mental readiness - and them it is done very slowly - no tight circles, mostly a walk, a little troting, and exposure to everything we can think of. We will usually do 30 days on, and 30 days off, if they are our horses, for a year - then 60 days at three - sometimes giving them the whole summer off and riding only in the spring and fall. We will start tracking cattle at three, and loping some - at four we feel that the mind and body are ready for asking them to start perfecting their skills, but not for long periods of training at a time - by five, they should be good to go! Jumping compitions don't usually expect a good horse until they are 10 or so - reason being soundness issues and the mind - people tend to forget that just becasue a horse is big in size as a youngster, their minds have not usually caught up - and you can really burn a horse out with high level training too young, too fast! Sorry - didn't mean to be so long winded - just a pet peeve of mine that horses are often expected to do too much too early, and then end up having their lives cut short because they are crippled at 8 The racing industry is a biggie in this! __________________ Quality Foundation Quarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never point in the wrong direction.

07-21-2006, 08:11 AM
Drafty Long Yearling Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,106	I say go for it. If I remember correctly I waited until my Quarter Horse/Arabian cross filly was five or six to saddle break her. She took it like a pro, because she was mentally, as well as physically, mature. My instructor says that most mares mature [physically] slower than their male counterparts. I tend to believe it, as the Quarab I mentioned above did not stop growing until she was 7-ish. __________________ "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." - Mahatma Gandhi

07-21-2006, 08:19 AM
TDH Welcome and Introductions Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 3,397	I have a black gelding and a grey filly; the filly will be 3 in March and the gelding will be 3 in April. I plan to introduce them to the saddle and bridle and begin groundwork on them this fall. Next fall is when I anticipate first getting into the saddle with them, and maybe short rides around the pasture if I feel they're ready.... but will wait until the following summer that they're 4, before taking them on any longer rides---and then ONLY easy rides, yet. No tough trails, fast rides, all-day rides, etc. By the time they're 5, their backs will have begun closing up. Only about by the age of 6 will I feel at ease going on long trail rides, etc. It's true, some Arabs mature very late. My husband's gelding REALLY was 8 years old before he truly stopped filling out! So he was a late bloomer. My filly who will be 3 in March, is BIG (for an Arab) and people around here will be looking at me funny when I take her out as a 4 year old for the first time, and wonder why I waited so long. So, it does depend a bit on the individual, too. When it comes to intense work, be it jumping, reining, what-have-you... I would not want to start a horse with that until they're about 7 just to be SURE I've given them plenty of time to mature and not run the risk of breakdown due to early stress on the joints etc. But, that's just me. Gbarmranch is right. Racing is ALL about the money, how quickly they can get the animal moving around the track at the fastest speed. I have a friend who used to work as a groom at the Santa Anita--believe me, it's all about the money. __________________ "Nature, when she made the Arab, made no mistake." -Homer Davenport-