First week of ground work with BJ

[Valkyrie]

Hi there, Horsetopians. This may be long ...

It's been a fascinating and exhausting first week with BJ. I'm VERY tired, and my joints ache from carrying hay and water and from falling off the darned horse, but I'm trying to stay positive. Truth be told, I feel a little emotionally battered as well as physically battered!

The first few days were great. We did lots of work on leading -- walk, trot, whoa, back, come to me. We did desensitizing with carrot stick and rope. All went well. I even rode him a little bareback (my first time bareback) and all was well. BJ has a tendency to be pushy, but he was really minding me by the end of six days, and I felt we had made great progress.

Yesterday I led him over to the tack room from the corral. I had to get through a field with three horses in it. It was also windy, which I know makes horses a little more skittish. He was wild-eyed, forging ahead of me sometimes (and it's a lot of horse to try and stop). I Whoaed him a few times, he hardly noticed. The other horses came up and were very distracting to him (he's been in the corral for a week, and really wants to join the herd).

I tied BJ in the little fenced-in space in front of the tack room, he tied fine. He's not a halter puller, thank heavens! I groomed him, just letting him get used to being somewhere other than in the corral. Some of the children from the farm came over, and were hanging around. I saw he was getting a little worked up again, and asked the kids to move away. Then someone came along the road, leading a very handsome yearling colt, who was calling to all the horses. BJ immediately started calling loudly to him -- and didn't pay any attention to me.

When all the commotion had died down, I bridled him and led him to the mounting block. I have it set up about 3.5 feet from the fence, so that once a horse is between the mounting block and fence he can't move his hindquarters away from me.

Here's where the battle really started. I'd lead him up to the mounting block. He'd come beside the mounting block and then back up as I got onto it. I'd try to get him to come forward (Walk!) while I was standing on the mounting block. No dice. Then I'd get down, and lead him around, practicing walk and whoa. Then I'd lead him next to the block. Same problem, he'd back up. Then the three horses in the field next to the tack room came up right next to the fence. At this point, he wouldn't even walk forward between the fence and the mounting block. It became a stupid, pointless battle between me and this horse -- Walk. Walk! WALK! Hit BJ with the end of the reins. WALK!

I was just about in tears. Finally I got the other horses to back up out of our space, and I led BJ next to the block, and I got on him. Then a truck came into the dooryard, and BJ moved very suddenly to the left and I cam off -- HARD, on my side, with my head hitting the ground. Luckily I was wearing a helmet, but it hurt.

We went through it again, after the truck left. I finally got on him, and went for a little ride, just enough to have "won" the totally pointless stuggle I had got us into. I took him back to his corral, groomed him a bit, and then went home.

Here's what I think I did wrong. (Or a few of the things I think I did wrong!) I stuck rigidly to my plans for the afternoon ("I am going to ride BJ") without taking into account the windy weather and how keyed-up he'd be. I should have moved the mounting block to the other fence, away from the horses next to the tack room. My goal is to escalate cues until I get the response I want -- I really didn't like hitting BJ for being overwhelmed by other horses, wind and trucks, but I wanted to be effective, as Clinton Anderson says. I was effective, but I recognize that I actually lost my temper and became emotional. I was angry at BJ, mostly because I was so tired already that my inner resources were scanty, to say the least.

Part of me feels that all our good work earlier in the week was destroyed by yesterday. I did a little ground work with him this morning, and he walked, trotted and whoaed. His whoa wasn't really good, and he was reluctant to stay still when I walked away from him. I try to make my body language clear, but maybe I'm not making it clear enough.

I search HT for "training whoa" and came up with some great earlier threads about working on just that, so I'm going to try some of those things tomorrow.

Thanks for letting me vent at such great length -- any comments, either critical or encouraging are welcome. I don't feel totally overwhelmed, but I do feel very tired and rather discouraged.

And sore!

Nina

[Touche]

Welcome to the world of horse ownership.
I am proud of you for thinking so clearly through the whole process.
You will have days such as this but you are so far ahead just by being able to think so clearly and realize what you need to change.

One tip for the mounting block.
Work on it as a lesson and that may be all that you do that day.
Make sure that he understands the "go forward" cue clearly first.
Lead him up to the mounting block and if he backs up, make him come forward again with your open hand. (point with your open hand which direction you want him to go, in this case it would be left)
If he turns his hindquarters away, flex him with the right rein and he should bring his hips back over.

You may have to do this a few times, but he should eventually get to where he is consistent and will patiently stand still.

Keep up the good work, you are doing fine.

[Valkyrie]

Dear Touche:

Thanks so much for your response -- it was very encouraging. I'm going to use the mounting block as a whole lesson tomorrow, if it feels right. Thanks for the tips -- I will definitely use them.

This is definitely horse ownership! I don't know why it surprises me that it's so different from just borrowing or hiring someone else's horse -- I certainly knew that it would be different, intellectually, but I really "get it" now.

I did some ground work with him today -- reviewing what we had worked on before. He was great and I think I was clearer. We worked for a fairly short time, reviewed everything, and left it all on a very positive note, which was as good for me as it was for him. It's just such a relief to put Friday behind us and move on.

Once again, I really appreciated your response!

Nina

[July]

Ugh, I think we've all had days like that!!

But it definitely is good to see you thinking through this rationally (instead of with those pesky irrational emotions) and realizing how it can go better next time.

I've certainly experienced that plenty with my filly, but I just keep having to remind myself that she's young and still learning--and most likely not "misbehaving" on purpose.

Some non-horse people think I make too many excuses for my horses...but I'm a firm believer that horses are not inherently bad, and while there are a number of things that could make them ornery, for the most part, if they aren't doing what you want, you're asking incorrectly.

Good luck--and take some Aleve!

[TxHorseMom]

Congratulations on your successes. You're doing a great job!

Something you might want to try, is to have a "helper" during the last part of the "mounting block training". This is what I do when training a horse to stand at a mounting block (and ultimately other mounting objects)

First I start out just circling my horse around the mounting block. If you have it next to something like a fence, it sometimes can make a horse clastrophobic and take a little longer to do. I just circle them closer and closer (slowly) until they are comfortable with getting next to the block. This may be one day's lesson.

Then, when they are comfortable with that, I will circle them up to the block and stop them at the appropriate spot and tell them "whoa, stand." We will do this for a while. (Make them stand at least 60 seconds without moving off.) This may be another day's lesson, depending on the horse.

This next step is where you will need your "helper". I will then stand on the block, and my helper lead the horse, moving in a circle slowly closer to the block. Once comfortable with that, your helper will bring the horse to the proper mounting position and tell the horse to "stand" once he is comfortably standing next to you, you will then lean over and take your foot in and out of the stirrup (without mounting) touch and "slap" the saddle gently. Maybe grab the saddlehorn and gently shake or move it. Walk up and down the steps of the block. End of lesson.

Finally, I will have the helper bring the horse up to the mounting block, telling the horse to "stand" and while the helper is holding the horse, mount from the block. I will usually have someone hold the horse for me until we both are comfortable enough that you do not think you will need a helper any longer. (Maybe 10-15 times) Actually, the last 5 attempts I will have a helper stand next to the horse, not holding him, but in the same position as they were when they were holding him.

This sounds like a long process, and maybe it is, but it has worked teaching several horses this way. You always end on a good note by not rushing them.

[mellowdane]

Whew.. that sounds like quite the week for you. Dont be so hard on yourself though. It is emotionally and physically exhausting getting to "know" your new horse. You can test em, try em, give em treats all you want.. but when you get them home and it is just the two of you, that is when you really get things going.

And often after that initial "honeymoon" period, you start hitting the trials. I have a boy that has also helped me redefine my personal limits. I tend to like to have a set idea of what my training day is going to accomplish (within reason of course). When I have been working with Bandit though I have found that my schedule has to be MUCH more fluid and resilient than with my other horse. There have been times where I had to just stop and say "I am losing my patience.. and just getting mad". Then I can go back and do something easy so we can end on a good note.

But it took me a while to be able to stop BEFORE I really lost my patience with him. Initially, I would just push and get frustrated, he would lose focus and start to get riled up.. and things would just go in a downward spiral. It was definately a no win situation. Looking back on an instance later I could sit and say to myself "this is where I should have stopped".. "this led up to this problem".. "I should have backed off here and gone to something easier/smaller/less stressful". Hindsight is 20/20 eh

But it sounds like you are recognizing those limits in yourself. It will just take some time and work and you and BJ will be doing great.. and will know each other boundries much better and will be able to work within them. Just go slow and keep it as safe as possible and you guys will be great.

One method I saw (I was watching a show on RFD), when you are walking and your horse is losing focus or getting ahead of you, have a dressage whip in your lead hand. If your horse starts charging ahead of you.. use the whip to tap (not beat ) the front of your horses LOWER leg, and make them step back 4-5 steps. Any sort of loss of focus (bellowing to friends, weaving all over, pushing ahead of you).. tap tap tap and back it up. Just an idea.. see how it works for you.. then you arent getting in to a pushing/pulling war with a horse that is much larger than you. This method was specifically geared towards stallions on this show, to teach manners and respect even when around a herd of mares, working horses etc., without getting them frustrated and aggressive. But the principle is the same.

Good luck, dont let the setbacks get ya down. We are all hear for ya, just let us know how it is going!

Melisa

[Valkyrie]

July: Thanks so much. It's good for me, as a new horse owner, to hear that other horse owners don't believe that all behaviour that doesn't please us makes a horse a "bad" horse. Sorry -- I'm not putting things very clearly right now -- I need more Aleve!

TxHorseMom: Bless you for the breakdown of teaching the mounting block training. I'm going to print this whole thread out, and take it with me tomorrow, so that I have your and Touche's suggestions. A helper -- yeah! One of the reasons I hung my head on Friday and almost wept with frustration was because I hadn't arranged for another person to help me with BJ at the block.

Thanks again, all -- I think HT is probably my biggest resource as a new horse owner, and I appreciate your generosity and experience!

Nina

[WYJumper]

Originally Posted by mellowdane

One method I saw (I was watching a show on RFD), when you are walking and your horse is losing focus or getting ahead of you, have a dressage whip in your lead hand. If your horse starts charging ahead of you.. use the whip to tap (not beat ) the front of your horses LOWER leg, and make them step back 4-5 steps. Any sort of loss of focus (bellowing to friends, weaving all over, pushing ahead of you).. tap tap tap and back it up. Just an idea.. see how it works for you.. then you arent getting in to a pushing/pulling war with a horse that is much larger than you. This method was specifically geared towards stallions on this show, to teach manners and respect even when around a herd of mares, working horses etc., without getting them frustrated and aggressive. But the principle is the same.

The dressage whip idea ^ really does work, you can do the same thing with the end of your lead rope if you need to also. A word of caution though, some horses will try to push or run through your tapping. Just calmly keep tapping while turning them in a circle until they stop and step back.

I agree with the others, it happens to everyone. Good thing is that there is always a new day. One of the best things about horses is that you can always try again or start over.

[Valkyrie]

Thanks mellowdane and WYJumper -- I'm feeling much better today and looking forward to the challenges of this week. BJ is going to be released into the herd on Tuesday morning, if all goes well, so it'll be an exciting time for him, and a good time for me to see how "bonded" he is with me (will he let me catch him, being the big question!)

I'm going to try the dressage whip idea -- he was mostly good about not barging into me on the ground today, but this has been a big problem. And, as you point out, it will also help me keep his focus on me when he's distracted by friends, etc.

Thank you all!

[Lady_MCSE]

Well, I'm only six months ahead of you Valkyrie, but I feel like saying, "Been there, done that."

It just takes time . . . stay safe, and try to stay level headed. You two are getting to know each other still. I'd say it was probably two or three months before I felt like Jacques and I had bonded. (For me, it was the evening when I went to approach him with the halter, and he shoved his head over toward me and down into the halter. Woo hoo!)

Good luck!

[HoosierSuz]

Hey Valkyrie, I would urge you to spend some time with BJ and an experienced friend or trainer. It's not that the things you're dealing with now are such huge issues; it's just that it ALWAYS helps to have another pair of eyes, always, especially when you yourself are learning. I've been very lucky in the sense that I've been riding with trainers since I was a child, but even now with my first green horse, Sunny, there is only a limited amount of things I feel like I can teach him by myself just because I know the value of having another set of eyes there.

I know it's not always possible, and often you'll spend time one-on-one with your horse. But especially with your first horse, please get as much help as possible. Horsetopia can help some, but nothing substitutes being there in person.

Best of luck to you. BJ is a special find and I'm sure you'll be very happy together.

[snickers]

Excellant advice form everyone.

I am sure most of us has done the trial and error.
I know I have.
Hang in there, you will get it and so will he and the two of you will be
one before you know it.

And what a beauty he is. Love those big breeds.

[Valkyrie]

Thanks for the support Lady_MCSE and snickers -- he's a beautiful fellow and very special horse. And a trainer is definitely on my list, Hoosier Suz -- I know I have a lot to learn. Even working with him with the woman I ride with teaches me so much.

BJ released himself from the corral this morning, one day ahead of schedule -- Gregg (the farmer) told me he had showed up for the morning hay feed with the rest of the herd! BJ was lying down by the (wrong side of) the corral door when I got out to the corral. He got up and greeted me enthusiastically and we did a little leading and so forth. He was great. He has decided that the leadmare and her two daughters (one a three year old, one a two year old) are his girls -- I hung out with the four of them for a while, just grooming him (at liberty) and putting on and taking off his halter. He is clearly very happy to be out with the other horses, and I look forward to seeing what tomorrow will bring.

Thanks again for all your advice!

[pasomystic]

You are doing very very well for a first time owner--you shopped carefully for BJ, and you are thinking out your moves and his reponses. GOOD job! You never stop learning with each horse--they all teach you something, and they all are capable of completely surprising you. Keep that in mind, and you will always be successful. As an example, yesterday,MagicAl, my 3/4 canadian decided haltering was out of the question. So, this morning I said "no halter, no breakfast". He said no halter. I gave him a second chance two hrs later. No dice. This afternoon, he was ANXIOUS to be haltered so he could have supper, lol.!!!! In spring, especially, a refresher course in many things can be required, and you have just acquired a new horse in the 'wild' season. Likely, as the year goes on, he will settle into a much better listener, lol.