Illiniequine's Split Topic (Misbehaving Gelding)

illiniequine · 03-23-2006, 07:02 PM

I've been dealing with the same situation since i have had my gelding.
As soon as i one foot in the stirrup, he starts up the hill in a full gallop.
And once we reach the top, and head to the trails, he throws his head and side steps, and bucks or rears. This is constant with him, the entire time hes either whinnying or being a bugger. It makes me crazy, i cant enjoy myself on him, its just a constant battle. If you try to ride away from the herd, he fights and fights. Ive had a situation, where he has gapped his mouth and took off and i lost control completely, you can pull and pull and yell at the top of your lungs and he just lowers his head and bears with the bit. You just have to hold on and hope you wont fall. The funny thing is, hes 14! he acts like hes 2!
I actually have made up my mind and im going to sell him, and maybe find a more quiet horse. Ive tried for 2 years to correct him of his bad habits, even had professional training! Nothing seems to work.
But, my vet said he may not have been gelded correctly, which is called either "Proud Cut or Cut Proud". He has about 14 mare buddies at the barn, and he is quite the top dog out there in the herd, and hes constantly causing havoc with the other geldings.

That could be the problem. I was told you can get a blood test to make sure the testosterone is completely out of his system, in Jack's case i dont think he was gelded properly AT ALL.

Hopefully this is to some help, Good luck.

leadmare · 03-23-2006, 08:47 PM

illiniequine,
The thing with KrisRN2005's situation is a once well behaved fella suddenly being a tail.

Vets, farriers, and trainers alike don't like to deal with bad actors. It's easy to blame it on a bad gelding and pass him on than to deal with the problem.

Reguardless of sexual intactness, partal or not. A crip can behave just like most geldings and stallions. The behavior your horse is displaying is not typical of a crip. You have to act and not react. There is just different ways of dealing with the different personalities. I know you said you sent him to a trainer or two, but a lot of trainers do not like to deal with a difficult personality and don't like to "Waste" their time on a horse that is not going to be more than a trail, or backyard show pony. It involves a lot of time and effort sometimes when a horse has gotten away with this type of behavior over a long period of time.

I had one horse sent to me that was alot like your horse sounds. He was acting out like this for over a year and a half. I worked with this horse for a week to figure out his issues, gained his trust in about a month and 8 months of riding everyday to "fix" the problem and set the new behavior in place. When he left me, you could ride him in a halter and leadrope. You gotta love them enough to want to figure things out. Sometimes this means just watching them and being with them for months.

illiniequine · 03-23-2006, 09:25 PM

Thats understandble, i hear where your coming with this.

But, how do you deal with a horse who seems to have this seperation anxiety issue?
When i go out the pasture to catch him, he refuses to be caught alot of the time, and he has a few times ran from me, or anybody that tries to catch him for that manor. Now i do catch him of course, but the whole way down he either stops dead or just walks in a slow slow pace, and then cries to his mare buddies all the way to the barn, and once in the barn, he paws when hes tied, and paces when hes stalled.
Now i know some people have said that when i catch him to not always ride him, just to groom him and spend time, to show him that being caught doesnt always mean work, and i have tried that but i get the same results. Like i said, he does the same when i am riding. He acts like a complete lunatic, and his behavior just doesnt seem to be improving. And it has been 2 years of constant working with him. Maybe im not doing somthing right, or im missing somthing? Im not sure.
He also, has broken 2 of my bridles. When hes tied, as im just about to walk out the door with him, hes tied for a few seconds till i clean up around the barn, and he seems to spook, or just break free and snapped 2 bridles, and bend the tar out of the side of a friends trailer, cuz the halter of course didnt break, and at that time, he pulled so hard, and he wouldnt relax the hole time, he has his butt on the ground!
I really dont know what causes all this, or what his past was like.
But im just confused more so than anything. Ive heard so many different explanations and stories behind all this.

Thanks though for your advice.

mandelyn82 · 03-23-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illiniequine

Like i said, he does the same when i am riding. He acts like a complete lunatic, and his behavior just doesnt seem to be improving. And it has been 2 years of constant working with him. Maybe im not doing somthing right, or im missing somthing? Im not sure.
.

Food for thought, have you looked into a training clinic? That way there's a certified instructor to work with you and your horse together... so that you know if you're missing a piece to the training puzzle. I'd look into parelli or Clinton Anderson. I've been to several as an observer... and I've seen some of the most confident riders go "

OOhhhh!

"

leadmare · 03-23-2006, 10:10 PM

illiniequine, I'd be glad to try and help you figure things out with your horse. If you want to try, sometimes it helps to step back from trying to figure it out and take emotions out of it for a bit and look at it from a different perspective. Start another thread with as much of your frustrations that you are having with him, and we'll go from there if he's still worth it to you. I understand your feelings if your set on giving up on him. I also know the feelings of success when all else seemed to fail.

You'll also get others advice and ideas as well for your personal situation.
Okay?

In the mean time try the "No talking rule". I'm sure it will make some difference.

sheri7785 · 03-24-2006, 02:05 PM

Illinequine,
Dealing with this takes patience and I'll be honest some courage. You'll have to take things at little steps constantly. To me this doesn't sound like anything other than he thinks he's boss and you are nothing. Some of this might sound mean but I would rather have respect and keep me from being injured than not.
First, if at all possible separate him from his harem. If you can put him in a smaller pen this is perfect to deal with this. That will start breaking the herdboundness. Then start teaching him respect. If he doesn't come to you and chooses to start moving away make him work! Don't let him stop running until you decide it's ok. You might have to make him run 3-4+ times before he starts figuring it out that he has to work harder for not listening. Then establish the no talking rule with the halter on. Do not let him talk for any reason whatsoever, unless he is nickering at you. With the pawing when tied I smack my horses for that. It's dangerous, I've been hit with those front hooves and I do not appreciate it.
Once you have his respect while walking him I would honestly leave him tied somewhere that he can't break free (a very thick post is nice for this). After a while he will relax because it's too tiring not to. I had a horse that would pull anything and try to break anything if he thought he could get away with it. I tied him up to a solid stall wall one day and let him pull to his heart's content. He stopped pulling after that.
For awhile work him in a round pen or some enclosed area where he can not get to his girls. Again if he goes to move away from you while you are preparing to get on make him work! Make it known that you control what he's doing not the other way around. Once you get on ask him to move forward politely. If he doesn't, work in small circles until he decides to. Pop him in the mouth if he yells for his girls. Again that means you aren't boss and oh yes you are. Take things slowly and he will start improving. It's a dominance thing. It really is. He's top dog with the girls so he assumes he's top dog with you. Sorry for the long post.

Seanachie · 03-25-2006, 03:26 PM

If you want to teach him not to pull when tied, take a heavy duty tire inner tube and tie it around the post. Then tie his (short) lead to the inner tube. He'll get tired of pulling against the tube long before it gets tired of pulling against him........

illiniequine · 03-26-2006, 02:26 PM

Well this advice I'd say out of all really seems to make sense, and I think things between us will work out. It just almost seemed impossible, because of the two years ive worked with him, its been tiring and frustrating.

I'm not the kind of person to give up, but this has almost brought me to the limit.

I've used countless help, whether it be Parelli or advice from another barn mate.

But I think this may work out, I'm on my lunch break right now, but as soon as I get off today, I was planning on heading over there and working with him.

Thank you all so much for your support, understanding, and advice.
And also thank you for listening!

It means alot

leadmare · 03-26-2006, 02:52 PM

Good luck with him today. If you need us we are here

I wish I was closer, this is my type of horse

illiniequine · 03-26-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leadmare

I wish I was closer, this is my type of horse

I love it when people are up to a challenge like him!

Thing is, I am selling him.

Because of work, things have changed and I dont get to go out there as much as I would like...

I really dread putting him for sale, I do love him so so much.

But I think he would do so much better with someone who had the time.

But I have been trying to improve it, and to look on the brighter side of things, I guess I could say its better than it was when I first got him

I think he was drugged when we got him!!

Because he wasnt half the horse he is today!
He was so mellow, and laid back, and he has been on a sedative before and he acts just like he did when we were looking at him.

Makes me wonder sometimes...

03-23-2006, 07:02 PM
illiniequine Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 217	I've been dealing with the same situation since i have had my gelding. As soon as i one foot in the stirrup, he starts up the hill in a full gallop. And once we reach the top, and head to the trails, he throws his head and side steps, and bucks or rears. This is constant with him, the entire time hes either whinnying or being a bugger. It makes me crazy, i cant enjoy myself on him, its just a constant battle. If you try to ride away from the herd, he fights and fights. Ive had a situation, where he has gapped his mouth and took off and i lost control completely, you can pull and pull and yell at the top of your lungs and he just lowers his head and bears with the bit. You just have to hold on and hope you wont fall. The funny thing is, hes 14! he acts like hes 2! I actually have made up my mind and im going to sell him, and maybe find a more quiet horse. Ive tried for 2 years to correct him of his bad habits, even had professional training! Nothing seems to work. But, my vet said he may not have been gelded correctly, which is called either "Proud Cut or Cut Proud". He has about 14 mare buddies at the barn, and he is quite the top dog out there in the herd, and hes constantly causing havoc with the other geldings. That could be the problem. I was told you can get a blood test to make sure the testosterone is completely out of his system, in Jack's case i dont think he was gelded properly AT ALL. Hopefully this is to some help, Good luck.

03-23-2006, 08:47 PM
leadmare Long Yearling Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,099	illiniequine, The thing with KrisRN2005's situation is a once well behaved fella suddenly being a tail. Vets, farriers, and trainers alike don't like to deal with bad actors. It's easy to blame it on a bad gelding and pass him on than to deal with the problem. Reguardless of sexual intactness, partal or not. A crip can behave just like most geldings and stallions. The behavior your horse is displaying is not typical of a crip. You have to act and not react. There is just different ways of dealing with the different personalities. I know you said you sent him to a trainer or two, but a lot of trainers do not like to deal with a difficult personality and don't like to "Waste" their time on a horse that is not going to be more than a trail, or backyard show pony. It involves a lot of time and effort sometimes when a horse has gotten away with this type of behavior over a long period of time. I had one horse sent to me that was alot like your horse sounds. He was acting out like this for over a year and a half. I worked with this horse for a week to figure out his issues, gained his trust in about a month and 8 months of riding everyday to "fix" the problem and set the new behavior in place. When he left me, you could ride him in a halter and leadrope. You gotta love them enough to want to figure things out. Sometimes this means just watching them and being with them for months. __________________ *When a man's ways please the Lord, He makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. Proverbs 16:7*

03-23-2006, 09:25 PM
illiniequine Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 217	Thats understandble, i hear where your coming with this. But, how do you deal with a horse who seems to have this seperation anxiety issue? When i go out the pasture to catch him, he refuses to be caught alot of the time, and he has a few times ran from me, or anybody that tries to catch him for that manor. Now i do catch him of course, but the whole way down he either stops dead or just walks in a slow slow pace, and then cries to his mare buddies all the way to the barn, and once in the barn, he paws when hes tied, and paces when hes stalled. Now i know some people have said that when i catch him to not always ride him, just to groom him and spend time, to show him that being caught doesnt always mean work, and i have tried that but i get the same results. Like i said, he does the same when i am riding. He acts like a complete lunatic, and his behavior just doesnt seem to be improving. And it has been 2 years of constant working with him. Maybe im not doing somthing right, or im missing somthing? Im not sure. He also, has broken 2 of my bridles. When hes tied, as im just about to walk out the door with him, hes tied for a few seconds till i clean up around the barn, and he seems to spook, or just break free and snapped 2 bridles, and bend the tar out of the side of a friends trailer, cuz the halter of course didnt break, and at that time, he pulled so hard, and he wouldnt relax the hole time, he has his butt on the ground! I really dont know what causes all this, or what his past was like. But im just confused more so than anything. Ive heard so many different explanations and stories behind all this. Thanks though for your advice.

03-23-2006, 10:10 PM
leadmare Long Yearling Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,099	illiniequine, I'd be glad to try and help you figure things out with your horse. If you want to try, sometimes it helps to step back from trying to figure it out and take emotions out of it for a bit and look at it from a different perspective. Start another thread with as much of your frustrations that you are having with him, and we'll go from there if he's still worth it to you. I understand your feelings if your set on giving up on him. I also know the feelings of success when all else seemed to fail. You'll also get others advice and ideas as well for your personal situation. Okay? In the mean time try the "No talking rule". I'm sure it will make some difference. __________________ *When a man's ways please the Lord, He makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. Proverbs 16:7*

03-24-2006, 02:05 PM
sheri7785 Long Yearling Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Omaha Posts: 1,074	Illinequine, Dealing with this takes patience and I'll be honest some courage. You'll have to take things at little steps constantly. To me this doesn't sound like anything other than he thinks he's boss and you are nothing. Some of this might sound mean but I would rather have respect and keep me from being injured than not. First, if at all possible separate him from his harem. If you can put him in a smaller pen this is perfect to deal with this. That will start breaking the herdboundness. Then start teaching him respect. If he doesn't come to you and chooses to start moving away make him work! Don't let him stop running until you decide it's ok. You might have to make him run 3-4+ times before he starts figuring it out that he has to work harder for not listening. Then establish the no talking rule with the halter on. Do not let him talk for any reason whatsoever, unless he is nickering at you. With the pawing when tied I smack my horses for that. It's dangerous, I've been hit with those front hooves and I do not appreciate it. Once you have his respect while walking him I would honestly leave him tied somewhere that he can't break free (a very thick post is nice for this). After a while he will relax because it's too tiring not to. I had a horse that would pull anything and try to break anything if he thought he could get away with it. I tied him up to a solid stall wall one day and let him pull to his heart's content. He stopped pulling after that. For awhile work him in a round pen or some enclosed area where he can not get to his girls. Again if he goes to move away from you while you are preparing to get on make him work! Make it known that you control what he's doing not the other way around. Once you get on ask him to move forward politely. If he doesn't, work in small circles until he decides to. Pop him in the mouth if he yells for his girls. Again that means you aren't boss and oh yes you are. Take things slowly and he will start improving. It's a dominance thing. It really is. He's top dog with the girls so he assumes he's top dog with you. Sorry for the long post.

03-25-2006, 03:26 PM
Seanachie Started Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,272	If you want to teach him not to pull when tied, take a heavy duty tire inner tube and tie it around the post. Then tie his (short) lead to the inner tube. He'll get tired of pulling against the tube long before it gets tired of pulling against him........ __________________ Seánachie "I'll keep my guns, my religion, and my money - you can keep the change."

03-26-2006, 02:26 PM
illiniequine Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 217	Well this advice I'd say out of all really seems to make sense, and I think things between us will work out. It just almost seemed impossible, because of the two years ive worked with him, its been tiring and frustrating. I'm not the kind of person to give up, but this has almost brought me to the limit. I've used countless help, whether it be Parelli or advice from another barn mate. But I think this may work out, I'm on my lunch break right now, but as soon as I get off today, I was planning on heading over there and working with him. Thank you all so much for your support, understanding, and advice. And also thank you for listening! It means alot

03-26-2006, 02:52 PM
leadmare Long Yearling Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,099	Good luck with him today. If you need us we are here I wish I was closer, this is my type of horse __________________ *When a man's ways please the Lord, He makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. Proverbs 16:7*