Falling in to the right or classic cutting manuever

**Range** · 02-01-2006, 07:26 PM

I've been working with Romeo for a while now and his tendency to drift to the right. It feels to me that when we turn to the right, he drops his right shoulder and spins on his haunches. When we turn to the left, he feels balanced and takes a longer turn. I've been thinking he's weak on the right side and have been working more that direction to strengthen him, but he still does it! Is it possible that since he has some basic training in cutting that this is the way he should be and I should be working on duplicating the move on the left? If not, how do I support him going to the right while neck reining and using body cues?

When I ride him English, in a different bit, I do some indirect reining and support him to get him to bend. He IS a Quarter Horse and they are advertised as all-around beasties and I want him to go HUS, but still be able to cut when and if we get to it. I also do a little dressage on him, but very basic.

Gosh, I'm so frustrated! I keep thinking maybe it's me and NOT him!

Rebecca · 02-01-2006, 07:49 PM

Remember this is my opinion, and only an opinion.
Horses like people have a side that tends to be more agile in the turn.
Similar to a person who has trouble writing with their left hand, but writes fine with the right.
I like a horse that dips it's shoulder and turns on it's rear.
If it were my horse I would be working to strengthen the turn on his stiff left side.
You can encourage a horse to turn on it's butt by backing and turning.
At least in my world what your horse is doing is a good thing.
But I know only western riding.

allison · 02-01-2006, 08:19 PM

You did the right thing by supporting him through the turn. For me, I will pick up slightly on the inside rein, and use my inside leg to get them to bend correctly, thus lifting up that inside shoulder. It is possible to accomplish this while using normal steering. I don't think it's from his cutting training, or else he'd do it both directions. It's just like Rebecca described, all horses favor a direction, just like people favor one hand.

Renae · 02-01-2006, 08:20 PM

No matter what discipline you are doing dropping a shoulder is NEVER a good thing. Dropped shoulders create a lack of collection and causes the horse to become unbalanced. It's also hard to ride a straight line on a horse who continually wants to drop his shoulder to one side or another. Horses can run full speed with their noses to their sides because their shoulders are still pointing forward...if you can control the shoulder you control the horse! SO it's not acceptable for your horse to be dropping one shoulder during any manuever. What you feel to the left probably feels balanced, athletic, graceful, and smooth...like if you needed to suddenly change course out of a left turn he could do it instantly? YES? But out of a right turn you need recovery time like he'd "diving" for the turn and then coming back up and struggling for footing as he exits? YES? You can cure this really easy. It's probaby not so much him being weaker on that side anymore as you said you worked him a lot in that direction but more of him being lazy!! Does that make sense...it's easier for him to cheat the corner than in is to do it right. Here are a few simple maneuvers that can help he realize he needs to keep that shoulder even with the other one. (You don't have to pick just one either...I use them all on every horse at one point or another)

#1 - Start on a straight line and then start making small serpentines starting with his good way. As he starts to turn left raise your left rein and lay it against his neck and keep steady contact on the right rein...place your left foo genty on his side to encourage him to lit his ribcage and bend around the corner. As you pass the middle and start to go right change all your cues to the other side...right foot gently on his side (you may have to wear a small rowler spur to get his attention) and raise the right rein and steady the left. Create boundaries that he can't pass in order to keep him collected and bending correctly around the turns. When he can do this without dropping his shoulder at the walk, move up to a trot and so on as he gets more comfortable using his shoulders to elevate himself, and carry himself through the turns instead of diving. (This is more of a dressage approach to the issue)

#2 Counter canter!!! AWESOME workout for getting collected and strengthing the muscles he needs to carry himself instead of relying on your support. I would start out on his best lead in a circle and as you close the circle continue in a figure eight just don't change leads but bend him around to the direction you are going but keep him on the wrong lead. Start off with bi counter canter circles and smaller circle to the direction of the lead your on. Remember to keep him bent around your inside leg and raise up the inside rein and blck with the outside rein. In a few months he'll have both shoudler up and be able to canter BEAUTIFUL 10m counter canter circles. Its a really cool thing to show off when your horse can do it correctly and great warm up for a seasoned horse who needs to get all stretched out!!!!! (also a dressage technique but widely used but HUS people)

#3 Go toward yur turn just as you would and the minute you feel him start to drop that should go left hard... eventually he will anticipate going left immediatly and stop trying to drop his shoulder because he thinks at any moment he'll have to go left again. (more of a cowboy way - I use this on stuborn older horses who know better!)

#4 Go toward your turn just as you would normally do and the minute he drops his shoulder halt and make him sidepass towards the right away from your left hand and leg getting his shoulder up and moving. The go back and try your turn again...same concept as #3 (I use this and #3 in the same session on a stubborn horse so you don't start causing your horse to jump left out of a right turn...you keep him fresh and guessing!)

GOOD LUCK and most importantly HAVE FUN!!!!!!!

**Range** · 02-01-2006, 08:47 PM

Renae - that's EXACTLY what it feels like! He's quick to the right, uses it as an "out" when he feels like he should be done. When he's turning to the right, I feel like he could fall over at any second, but to the left, he's balanced and controlled.

I will try those moves, I've already been turning him in a circle to the left every time he starts to "fall in", but then I over thought the process!

02-01-2006, 07:26 PM
Range Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back of Beyond Posts: 5,898	Falling in to the right or classic cutting manuever I've been working with Romeo for a while now and his tendency to drift to the right. It feels to me that when we turn to the right, he drops his right shoulder and spins on his haunches. When we turn to the left, he feels balanced and takes a longer turn. I've been thinking he's weak on the right side and have been working more that direction to strengthen him, but he still does it! Is it possible that since he has some basic training in cutting that this is the way he should be and I should be working on duplicating the move on the left? If not, how do I support him going to the right while neck reining and using body cues? When I ride him English, in a different bit, I do some indirect reining and support him to get him to bend. He IS a Quarter Horse and they are advertised as all-around beasties and I want him to go HUS, but still be able to cut when and if we get to it. I also do a little dressage on him, but very basic. Gosh, I'm so frustrated! I keep thinking maybe it's me and NOT him! __________________ If it harms none, do what you will.

02-01-2006, 07:49 PM
Rebecca Started Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: East Texas Posts: 2,808	Remember this is my opinion, and only an opinion. Horses like people have a side that tends to be more agile in the turn. Similar to a person who has trouble writing with their left hand, but writes fine with the right. I like a horse that dips it's shoulder and turns on it's rear. If it were my horse I would be working to strengthen the turn on his stiff left side. You can encourage a horse to turn on it's butt by backing and turning. At least in my world what your horse is doing is a good thing. But I know only western riding.

02-01-2006, 08:19 PM
allison Started Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kenosha, WI. Posts: 2,133	You did the right thing by supporting him through the turn. For me, I will pick up slightly on the inside rein, and use my inside leg to get them to bend correctly, thus lifting up that inside shoulder. It is possible to accomplish this while using normal steering. I don't think it's from his cutting training, or else he'd do it both directions. It's just like Rebecca described, all horses favor a direction, just like people favor one hand. __________________ Horses & Horsepower www.freewebs.com/mustangali_/ "...just like computers refuse to understand how I'm feeling today"

02-01-2006, 08:20 PM
Renae Weanling Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: United States Posts: 216	No matter what discipline you are doing dropping a shoulder is NEVER a good thing. Dropped shoulders create a lack of collection and causes the horse to become unbalanced. It's also hard to ride a straight line on a horse who continually wants to drop his shoulder to one side or another. Horses can run full speed with their noses to their sides because their shoulders are still pointing forward...if you can control the shoulder you control the horse! SO it's not acceptable for your horse to be dropping one shoulder during any manuever. What you feel to the left probably feels balanced, athletic, graceful, and smooth...like if you needed to suddenly change course out of a left turn he could do it instantly? YES? But out of a right turn you need recovery time like he'd "diving" for the turn and then coming back up and struggling for footing as he exits? YES? You can cure this really easy. It's probaby not so much him being weaker on that side anymore as you said you worked him a lot in that direction but more of him being lazy!! Does that make sense...it's easier for him to cheat the corner than in is to do it right. Here are a few simple maneuvers that can help he realize he needs to keep that shoulder even with the other one. (You don't have to pick just one either...I use them all on every horse at one point or another) #1 - Start on a straight line and then start making small serpentines starting with his good way. As he starts to turn left raise your left rein and lay it against his neck and keep steady contact on the right rein...place your left foo genty on his side to encourage him to lit his ribcage and bend around the corner. As you pass the middle and start to go right change all your cues to the other side...right foot gently on his side (you may have to wear a small rowler spur to get his attention) and raise the right rein and steady the left. Create boundaries that he can't pass in order to keep him collected and bending correctly around the turns. When he can do this without dropping his shoulder at the walk, move up to a trot and so on as he gets more comfortable using his shoulders to elevate himself, and carry himself through the turns instead of diving. (This is more of a dressage approach to the issue) #2 Counter canter!!! AWESOME workout for getting collected and strengthing the muscles he needs to carry himself instead of relying on your support. I would start out on his best lead in a circle and as you close the circle continue in a figure eight just don't change leads but bend him around to the direction you are going but keep him on the wrong lead. Start off with bi counter canter circles and smaller circle to the direction of the lead your on. Remember to keep him bent around your inside leg and raise up the inside rein and blck with the outside rein. In a few months he'll have both shoudler up and be able to canter BEAUTIFUL 10m counter canter circles. Its a really cool thing to show off when your horse can do it correctly and great warm up for a seasoned horse who needs to get all stretched out!!!!! (also a dressage technique but widely used but HUS people) #3 Go toward yur turn just as you would and the minute you feel him start to drop that should go left hard... eventually he will anticipate going left immediatly and stop trying to drop his shoulder because he thinks at any moment he'll have to go left again. (more of a cowboy way - I use this on stuborn older horses who know better!) #4 Go toward your turn just as you would normally do and the minute he drops his shoulder halt and make him sidepass towards the right away from your left hand and leg getting his shoulder up and moving. The go back and try your turn again...same concept as #3 (I use this and #3 in the same session on a stubborn horse so you don't start causing your horse to jump left out of a right turn...you keep him fresh and guessing!) GOOD LUCK and most importantly HAVE FUN!!!!!!! __________________ Renae Just do it!

02-01-2006, 08:47 PM
Range Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back of Beyond Posts: 5,898	falling in Renae - that's EXACTLY what it feels like! He's quick to the right, uses it as an "out" when he feels like he should be done. When he's turning to the right, I feel like he could fall over at any second, but to the left, he's balanced and controlled. I will try those moves, I've already been turning him in a circle to the left every time he starts to "fall in", but then I over thought the process! __________________ If it harms none, do what you will.