I have an OTTB and am having problems with stopping her

MeAndMyHorses · 01-23-2006, 12:37 AM

My TB mare has a little problem, she does really great for me except when it is time to stop. I am finding myself having to pull harder on her mouth than desired and she throws her head up and I don't want to keep this up (pulling on her mouth, I would hate to make her mouth harder than it already is. I have tried multiple different kinds of bits: copper mouth snaffle, twisted snaffle, twisted full check, kimberwick (broken). Please, if someone has any advice it would be very much appreciated.
Thanks

**taelesean** · 01-23-2006, 01:14 AM

First, you can try saying HO with your whole body, instead of mainly with your hands. Sit really deep in the saddle and relax, balancing to the rear, and give the reins just a little twitch. If she doesn't stop, lean back and twitch a little harder - always take the tension off the reins completely between twitches. If she still hasn't stopped, stay relaxed in the saddle and give the reins a good yank! If that doesn't stop her, make her go go go until just a little after she wants to stop! then try again. If she stops or slows, take the tension off the reins fast. If she just slows, twitch again, increase the twitch until you get the response, and release. Do this in a big round pen or arena, where she can't run off with you.

If that doesnt get any improvement, you need to go back to ground work. On a lead, walk with her a bit and then say "ho" very firmly and stop. lead again, make a turn and say 'ho!" again, and stop. don't be regular, walk a little, walk farther, and then stop, so she doesn't anticipate the verbal command. When she will stop as soon as you say "ho!" you can get back in the saddle and try the above again, adding the verbal "ho" before you twitch the reins. If she doesn't stop on a lead, you need to go back to basic roundpenning.

MeAndMyHorses · 01-23-2006, 01:20 AM

If that doesnt get any improvement, you need to go back to ground work. On a lead, walk with her a bit and then say "ho" very firmly and stop. lead again, make a turn and say 'ho!" again, and stop. don't be regular, walk a little, walk farther, and then stop, so she doesn't anticipate the verbal command. When she will stop as soon as you say "ho!" you can get back in the saddle and try the above again, adding the verbal "ho" before you twitch the reins. If she doesn't stop on a lead, you need to go back to basic roundpenning.
_________________
I will try this..all the above paragragh I have tried MANY times and she still dosen't care. But will definately will try doing it on the ground. Thanks for your useful advice.
Candice

abigail91101 · 01-23-2006, 01:38 AM

Do you think her teeth need to be done?
If her teeth are okay. Do ground work as mentioned above. You can also try a mild snaffle and in a small pen, walk her straight to the fence, head on. Just before you get to the fence, use your body to stop her with very little pull on the reins. Also use the word whoa. She will have to stop or she will run straight into the fence. This should help her undertand what your body is telling her. Be very consistent in your aides everytime so that you are asking her the same way everytime. Really reward her when she gets it right. You can get through this it just takes patience and persistence.

Rocking Horse · 01-23-2006, 07:14 AM

I don't know how long she has been off the track.

Most OTTB's do NOT know the cue for stop, wether it is Whoa, Ho or just sitting quietly in the saddle (like stop riding)...
I worked at Belmont race Track for many years, the only cue for stop / slow they know is a release of rein pressure. The harder you pull back the faster they go. Most likely she is throwing her head up because she doesn't understand the pull back. Most OTTB's do not know the one rein stop cue either.. They are not taaught anything but to RUN...
I have re-trained many OTTB's and the one problem new owners have (new to OTTB) is getting the horse to slow or stop.
Drop the reins, not literally, just loosen the rein length, give ALOT of slack. That is their cue for slowing to a stop. The more you yank on those reins, the more your horse wnats to go and you are confusing him also...

Try loosening the rein length, if all else fails, drop your reins. I am assuming you are riding with a single rein?

Good luck, if you have any more problems PM me and I will try to help.
OTTB's are not easy to re-train, it can be done with persistance and an understanding of the training they recienved while at the track...

ron · 01-23-2006, 09:27 AM

whoooooaaaaa

the stop must be taught at the walk.

this HAS to be done before advancing to the trot and canter.

On a racing horse, they are not taught to stop, and what compounds the problem is that they run into the bit, using the bit and reins as balance.

Go back to the walk and don't move up to trot until the horse stops everytime when asked, not told, asked.

Then move on to the trot. This is a good time to start working on leg yields and body language.

EquineAlberta · 01-23-2006, 12:25 PM

Easy things to try:

Think about your seat and legs pushing her harder into a resitant hand for the halt, rather than your hand pulling her back. Your seat tells her to whoa or balance by doing the same sort of action as you would to push a swing forward. Kind of a clench and pelvic tilt. PUll your hands back to your ribs so that the pressure is up in the corners of her mouth, and not down on the bars.

Now, to teach her what this means, walk her purposefully towards a wall or fence, say whoa, and give the command to halt as you get to the wall or fence. If the command does not stop her the wall/fence will. You could also do this with someone leading you if you don't have a wall or fence to use. Once halted, relax the aids and stand for at least 3 seconds (more if she is relaxed enough)

I agree that you need to get this done at the walk before going faster, but you can use the wall/fence at the trot/jog too, just make sure you use the proper aids each time to tell her to stop before she gets to the wall...the wall is your back up only.

Good luck, and have patience. I am guessing she isn't trying to be difficult, or hard mouthed she just does not understand what you are saying and is getting frustrated too! Most "hard mouths" are really just horses that are bracing against pain and confusion, and not actually an insensitive mouth.

Karen2

MeAndMyHorses · 01-23-2006, 03:05 PM

Well she has had some training from a dressage trainer...the only area problems I have had is that she doesn't like to stop (she will stop, I just have to pull too hard) or back up, but we have been working on all of that. She will of course stop better in the round pen then she does when we are on a trail ride. It will just take time, I just wasn't sure if I should try a harsher bit. Thanks for all the great advice
Candice

eieio · 01-23-2006, 03:50 PM

A little tip I learned from a TB trainer years ago is that when they want a horse to stop running the use a pulley rein technique. They stop a horse with the right rein only. The other way a lot of TB's are trained is that they release the pressure and cross both reins over the neck pulling the horses head up and back.This one is tricky and not as effective. If a OFTb gets quick on me then I ask him for a smaller circle to the right until they slow down and really sit on them. I use more and more left rein pressure until the horse learns to halt correctly. All of the above resposes are correct but in case of emergency the pulley rein to the right with the left rein loose(hand on the neck) will keep you out of a scrape if need be. Good Luck!

DixieHorseChick18 · 01-23-2006, 04:07 PM

My moms horse is like this, it wasnt as bad before but it just gets worse and worse, now he is like pulling back on a moving train to try to get stopped.

To prevent her from throwing her head up, I suggest a tie down, not tied real tight, just enought that she knows it is there and she wont be able to throw her head up. It wont be long before she desides to stop trying in the first place.
Now my horse was really hard to stop when I got him. Like everyone say, use lots of HO in every body part. I could hardly ever get Apollo stopped before I started working with him on stopping. I would trot a bit, then when I wanted him to walk, I was say " walk" and lean back sort of pushing my feet forward and sitting head lifting the reins in a upward position. Soon he leared that when I sat back into the saddle and pushed my feet out, that she should slow down, it wasnt long before he would do it without picking up the reins.
Then, I started doing it when he was walking to get him to stop. He already knew the concept and what I was doing. I would repeat-
sitting heavy in the saddle- feet out , heals down- picking up on the reins. He didnt get it right away, but always remeber that praise is better that punishment, so when he would stop ( even if I would have to pull back) I would praise him, pat his neck, let him rest for a second. Repitition is the key to learning, do it alot, praise for th good, dont for the bad. She will catch on fast, just be patient.
Now,as soon as she understands, with a lot of work, she should learn to stop just by sitting heavy. Apollo can do it now, he still needs a little work but on a good day, he can do it like he has done it all his life. ( on a good day)

Hope I can help a little. It is just something for you to try, worked for me and Apollo did the same things like throwing that head up. Good luck.

ron · 01-23-2006, 04:23 PM

if the horse don't know stop....he won't know back up.

ya gotta stop before ya back up

pulling harder and a harsher bit is not the answer

well it may be an answer....but not the right answer

MeAndMyHorses · 01-23-2006, 05:25 PM

if the horse don't know stop....he won't know back up.

ya gotta stop before ya back up

pulling harder and a harsher bit is not the answer

well it may be an answer....but not the right answer

Ron, I know..I was just stating the facts/problems I was having with her. And if I thought that pulling on the horses mouth was the right thing to do I wouldn've posted my problem

ron · 01-23-2006, 05:40 PM

I'm sorry. Just a thing that gets to me.

So many people want to jump and go and put holes in a horses training and then the horse has to be subjected to bigger bits, tie downs, german martingales, chains, yada, yada.

Again, sorry I stressed the point, maybe I shouldn't have.

Rebecca · 01-23-2006, 05:43 PM

My son worked for a man who trained race horses, both quarter and thoroughbred.
My kid was hired to exercise the horses because he was a good rider, but very small for his age.
He actually got in trouble because he was "putting a handle" on one of the horses.
One of the first things we do with our horses is to train them to stop.
It has never made any sense to us why race horses are not taught to stop.
A horse has just as much speed, no matter how well trained, and well mannered.
This same man told me a horror story about a year later.
He put a female jockey on his horse.
After the race the horse refused to stop, ran off the track, and stepped in a hole and injured itself.
And he blamed the jockey. Huh!

http://www.discounthorse.com/show_pr...googlebase&kw=

http://rdequinesupply.com/cat5/55107...top_n_turn.jpg

I guess you could always try a Correction Bit, or a Stop N Turn.
They both work to stop a horse.
But I agree more training at a walk would be a better direction to go.

**Range** · 01-23-2006, 06:33 PM

I would start in the round pen, teaching the voice command. I might also go to a bitless bridle...especially if she's halter broke enough to whoa from halter pressure. The bitless bridle would remove the bit confusion and allow her to listen to your body cues. Everyone has stated the big problem with racehorses, they use the bit and reins to lean into to balance. All of the above are good suggestions, but I would try without a bit, too!

**beth55051** · 01-23-2006, 07:49 PM

Okay besides all the pulling, yanking and landing on her back.
Try this: In a round pen or other small area. It does not matter what she has in her mouth or on her face but I would reccomend a nice mild d-ring or similar.
Start at a slow walk. Sit deep hold the reins steady, release your breath and sit deep in the saddle(become jello) and wait for her to stop, do not pull, yank or use other harshness. It make take her a while to feel it but when she stops release immediately, even if it's only a slight pause in forward movement, do it over and over again. Then start to hold the pressure even once she has stopped until you feel the least little bit of backwards movement, release! Repeat this over and over again until she is stopping and backing immediatly on a light touch. She cannot stop if she cannot back! The idea is to use a steady pressure with an immediate release. Start with the tiniest little try and work up. Constant reward for any little try. If she starts to toss her head while you are holding her ignore it and keep the pressure steady. It might at first seem like it's taking forever, it takes lots of patience but she will learn. Everything she knows goes against this which is why it is so important to reward the good and ignore the bad. If she relates stopping/backing to being yanked on and pulled on why would she want to? It would just be easier to brace and keep going right? Trust me if you are patient enough and remember to reward every little try she will soon be stopping on a dime! All of my barrel horses (OTTB and others) can do a near sliding stop in the middle of a barrel pattern with the slightest cue. It just takes patience and consistency.

MeAndMyHorses · 01-23-2006, 08:20 PM

k, i understand

ThorArb · 01-23-2006, 08:38 PM

I dont believe any one is saying that you ARE yanking, jerking, or trying to give any negative feedback. You asked for their advice, and this is all they are giving.

Have you had your horse's teeth looked at? And is everything fitting correctly? She isnt hurting anywhere?

I would go back to some basic ground work. Like ground driving. Just as you would with a green horse. Like she is "new" to the whole concept.

Then go from there. Teach her the basics all over again, from the ground. Then get on her, and try from there. It could take anywhere from a couple days to months. Depends on you and your horse.

Is that her in your avatar by the way? She's a pretty girl if it is!

Brittany

MeAndMyHorses · 01-23-2006, 08:59 PM

Her teeth are fine, her equipement fits correctly, and no, she dosen't seem to be hurting anywhere. I just started ground driving her and she acts as though she has done it before. I realize that she is not going to change over night and it will take time. I asked for advice yes, but some feedback feel more like attacks then advice. I ado appreciate your advice..Thank You

. And yes, that is her in my avatar, thanks, I think she is pretty too.

Nogami47 · 01-23-2006, 09:51 PM

She is sweet looking! I love her face. I bet if you can get her over this you will have a wonderful horse. To me the key is this: "a release of rein pressure." I think this is true for most horses, not just race horses. Remember, horses naturally lean into pressure and have to be taught to yield to it. So when you try to teach the "whoa" by only taking up the rein and not releasing, the horse doesn't understand and you get into the pulling battle.

What I would do is cover all the bases. When you lead her in a halter, does she stop respectfully when you do? If not, train at that level. You should be able to walk, trot, and canter her in hand. If you walk in front of her, she should stop dead, not try to walk through you. If she's good at that, how is she on the lunge line? Make sure she's good at that level next. Only then would I get on and ask for a walk. I would do the take-and-release on the rein when asking for the halt, and definitely use the wall trick if you need to. Another good suggestion was breathing - long, deep breaths. Check out Sally Swift's Centered Riding. This helped me enormously with a "whoa-less" horse I worked with. When I wanted him to stop, I used normal rein pressure for the take-and-release, then imagined a huge chain anchoring me (and him) to the ground. I couldn't believe how well it worked. You might want to look for her videos - any good tack shop should either have them or be able to get them for you.

01-23-2006, 12:37 AM
MeAndMyHorses Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kennewick, Washington Posts: 103	I have an OTTB and am having problems with stopping her My TB mare has a little problem, she does really great for me except when it is time to stop. I am finding myself having to pull harder on her mouth than desired and she throws her head up and I don't want to keep this up (pulling on her mouth, I would hate to make her mouth harder than it already is. I have tried multiple different kinds of bits: copper mouth snaffle, twisted snaffle, twisted full check, kimberwick (broken). Please, if someone has any advice it would be very much appreciated. Thanks

01-23-2006, 01:14 AM
taelesean Administrator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 5,756	First, you can try saying HO with your whole body, instead of mainly with your hands. Sit really deep in the saddle and relax, balancing to the rear, and give the reins just a little twitch. If she doesn't stop, lean back and twitch a little harder - always take the tension off the reins completely between twitches. If she still hasn't stopped, stay relaxed in the saddle and give the reins a good yank! If that doesn't stop her, make her go go go until just a little after she wants to stop! then try again. If she stops or slows, take the tension off the reins fast. If she just slows, twitch again, increase the twitch until you get the response, and release. Do this in a big round pen or arena, where she can't run off with you. If that doesnt get any improvement, you need to go back to ground work. On a lead, walk with her a bit and then say "ho" very firmly and stop. lead again, make a turn and say 'ho!" again, and stop. don't be regular, walk a little, walk farther, and then stop, so she doesn't anticipate the verbal command. When she will stop as soon as you say "ho!" you can get back in the saddle and try the above again, adding the verbal "ho" before you twitch the reins. If she doesn't stop on a lead, you need to go back to basic roundpenning. __________________

01-23-2006, 01:20 AM
MeAndMyHorses Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kennewick, Washington Posts: 103	If that doesnt get any improvement, you need to go back to ground work. On a lead, walk with her a bit and then say "ho" very firmly and stop. lead again, make a turn and say 'ho!" again, and stop. don't be regular, walk a little, walk farther, and then stop, so she doesn't anticipate the verbal command. When she will stop as soon as you say "ho!" you can get back in the saddle and try the above again, adding the verbal "ho" before you twitch the reins. If she doesn't stop on a lead, you need to go back to basic roundpenning. _________________ I will try this..all the above paragragh I have tried MANY times and she still dosen't care. But will definately will try doing it on the ground. Thanks for your useful advice. Candice

01-23-2006, 01:38 AM
abigail91101 Halter broke Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hitchcock Texas Posts: 146	Do you think her teeth need to be done? If her teeth are okay. Do ground work as mentioned above. You can also try a mild snaffle and in a small pen, walk her straight to the fence, head on. Just before you get to the fence, use your body to stop her with very little pull on the reins. Also use the word whoa. She will have to stop or she will run straight into the fence. This should help her undertand what your body is telling her. Be very consistent in your aides everytime so that you are asking her the same way everytime. Really reward her when she gets it right. You can get through this it just takes patience and persistence. __________________ visit my web site www.shadowcreekstables.com

01-23-2006, 07:14 AM
Rocking Horse Started Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,367	I don't know how long she has been off the track. Most OTTB's do NOT know the cue for stop, wether it is Whoa, Ho or just sitting quietly in the saddle (like stop riding)... I worked at Belmont race Track for many years, the only cue for stop / slow they know is a release of rein pressure. The harder you pull back the faster they go. Most likely she is throwing her head up because she doesn't understand the pull back. Most OTTB's do not know the one rein stop cue either.. They are not taaught anything but to RUN... I have re-trained many OTTB's and the one problem new owners have (new to OTTB) is getting the horse to slow or stop. Drop the reins, not literally, just loosen the rein length, give ALOT of slack. That is their cue for slowing to a stop. The more you yank on those reins, the more your horse wnats to go and you are confusing him also... Try loosening the rein length, if all else fails, drop your reins. I am assuming you are riding with a single rein? Good luck, if you have any more problems PM me and I will try to help. OTTB's are not easy to re-train, it can be done with persistance and an understanding of the training they recienved while at the track... __________________ ~ Too many freaks, not enough circuses ~

01-23-2006, 09:27 AM
ron Started Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 2,649	whoooooaaaaa the stop must be taught at the walk. this HAS to be done before advancing to the trot and canter. On a racing horse, they are not taught to stop, and what compounds the problem is that they run into the bit, using the bit and reins as balance. Go back to the walk and don't move up to trot until the horse stops everytime when asked, not told, asked. Then move on to the trot. This is a good time to start working on leg yields and body language.

01-23-2006, 12:25 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,694	Easy things to try: Think about your seat and legs pushing her harder into a resitant hand for the halt, rather than your hand pulling her back. Your seat tells her to whoa or balance by doing the same sort of action as you would to push a swing forward. Kind of a clench and pelvic tilt. PUll your hands back to your ribs so that the pressure is up in the corners of her mouth, and not down on the bars. Now, to teach her what this means, walk her purposefully towards a wall or fence, say whoa, and give the command to halt as you get to the wall or fence. If the command does not stop her the wall/fence will. You could also do this with someone leading you if you don't have a wall or fence to use. Once halted, relax the aids and stand for at least 3 seconds (more if she is relaxed enough) I agree that you need to get this done at the walk before going faster, but you can use the wall/fence at the trot/jog too, just make sure you use the proper aids each time to tell her to stop before she gets to the wall...the wall is your back up only. Good luck, and have patience. I am guessing she isn't trying to be difficult, or hard mouthed she just does not understand what you are saying and is getting frustrated too! Most "hard mouths" are really just horses that are bracing against pain and confusion, and not actually an insensitive mouth. Karen2 __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB CHT Horse Stories!

01-23-2006, 03:05 PM
MeAndMyHorses Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kennewick, Washington Posts: 103	Well she has had some training from a dressage trainer...the only area problems I have had is that she doesn't like to stop (she will stop, I just have to pull too hard) or back up, but we have been working on all of that. She will of course stop better in the round pen then she does when we are on a trail ride. It will just take time, I just wasn't sure if I should try a harsher bit. Thanks for all the great advice Candice

01-23-2006, 03:50 PM
eieio Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,138	A little tip I learned from a TB trainer years ago is that when they want a horse to stop running the use a pulley rein technique. They stop a horse with the right rein only. The other way a lot of TB's are trained is that they release the pressure and cross both reins over the neck pulling the horses head up and back.This one is tricky and not as effective. If a OFTb gets quick on me then I ask him for a smaller circle to the right until they slow down and really sit on them. I use more and more left rein pressure until the horse learns to halt correctly. All of the above resposes are correct but in case of emergency the pulley rein to the right with the left rein loose(hand on the neck) will keep you out of a scrape if need be. Good Luck! __________________ There is no such thing as a always or never in the horse world. Say that one time and some horse some where will prove you wrong!. Visit us at www.woodfoxfarm.com

01-23-2006, 04:07 PM
DixieHorseChick18 Long Yearling Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,206	My moms horse is like this, it wasnt as bad before but it just gets worse and worse, now he is like pulling back on a moving train to try to get stopped. To prevent her from throwing her head up, I suggest a tie down, not tied real tight, just enought that she knows it is there and she wont be able to throw her head up. It wont be long before she desides to stop trying in the first place. Now my horse was really hard to stop when I got him. Like everyone say, use lots of HO in every body part. I could hardly ever get Apollo stopped before I started working with him on stopping. I would trot a bit, then when I wanted him to walk, I was say " walk" and lean back sort of pushing my feet forward and sitting head lifting the reins in a upward position. Soon he leared that when I sat back into the saddle and pushed my feet out, that she should slow down, it wasnt long before he would do it without picking up the reins. Then, I started doing it when he was walking to get him to stop. He already knew the concept and what I was doing. I would repeat- sitting heavy in the saddle- feet out , heals down- picking up on the reins. He didnt get it right away, but always remeber that praise is better that punishment, so when he would stop ( even if I would have to pull back) I would praise him, pat his neck, let him rest for a second. Repitition is the key to learning, do it alot, praise for th good, dont for the bad. She will catch on fast, just be patient. Now,as soon as she understands, with a lot of work, she should learn to stop just by sitting heavy. Apollo can do it now, he still needs a little work but on a good day, he can do it like he has done it all his life. ( on a good day) Hope I can help a little. It is just something for you to try, worked for me and Apollo did the same things like throwing that head up. Good luck. __________________ I love horses that are not broke under saddle, it gives me a reason to jump on BAREBACK!!!YeeHaaww Lifes to short to pretend like you know what smart people are talking about.

01-23-2006, 04:23 PM
ron Started Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 2,649	if the horse don't know stop....he won't know back up. ya gotta stop before ya back up pulling harder and a harsher bit is not the answer well it may be an answer....but not the right answer

01-23-2006, 05:25 PM
MeAndMyHorses Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kennewick, Washington Posts: 103	if the horse don't know stop....he won't know back up. ya gotta stop before ya back up pulling harder and a harsher bit is not the answer well it may be an answer....but not the right answer Ron, I know..I was just stating the facts/problems I was having with her. And if I thought that pulling on the horses mouth was the right thing to do I wouldn've posted my problem

01-23-2006, 05:40 PM
ron Started Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 2,649	I'm sorry. Just a thing that gets to me. So many people want to jump and go and put holes in a horses training and then the horse has to be subjected to bigger bits, tie downs, german martingales, chains, yada, yada. Again, sorry I stressed the point, maybe I shouldn't have.

01-23-2006, 05:43 PM
Rebecca Started Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: East Texas Posts: 2,808	My son worked for a man who trained race horses, both quarter and thoroughbred. My kid was hired to exercise the horses because he was a good rider, but very small for his age. He actually got in trouble because he was "putting a handle" on one of the horses. One of the first things we do with our horses is to train them to stop. It has never made any sense to us why race horses are not taught to stop. A horse has just as much speed, no matter how well trained, and well mannered. This same man told me a horror story about a year later. He put a female jockey on his horse. After the race the horse refused to stop, ran off the track, and stepped in a hole and injured itself. And he blamed the jockey. Huh! http://www.discounthorse.com/show_pr...googlebase&kw= http://rdequinesupply.com/cat5/55107...top_n_turn.jpg I guess you could always try a Correction Bit, or a Stop N Turn. They both work to stop a horse. But I agree more training at a walk would be a better direction to go.

01-23-2006, 06:33 PM
Range Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back of Beyond Posts: 5,898	whoa I would start in the round pen, teaching the voice command. I might also go to a bitless bridle...especially if she's halter broke enough to whoa from halter pressure. The bitless bridle would remove the bit confusion and allow her to listen to your body cues. Everyone has stated the big problem with racehorses, they use the bit and reins to lean into to balance. All of the above are good suggestions, but I would try without a bit, too! __________________ If it harms none, do what you will.

01-23-2006, 07:49 PM
beth55051 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: East Central Minnesota Posts: 4,870	Okay besides all the pulling, yanking and landing on her back. Try this: In a round pen or other small area. It does not matter what she has in her mouth or on her face but I would reccomend a nice mild d-ring or similar. Start at a slow walk. Sit deep hold the reins steady, release your breath and sit deep in the saddle(become jello) and wait for her to stop, do not pull, yank or use other harshness. It make take her a while to feel it but when she stops release immediately, even if it's only a slight pause in forward movement, do it over and over again. Then start to hold the pressure even once she has stopped until you feel the least little bit of backwards movement, release! Repeat this over and over again until she is stopping and backing immediatly on a light touch. She cannot stop if she cannot back! The idea is to use a steady pressure with an immediate release. Start with the tiniest little try and work up. Constant reward for any little try. If she starts to toss her head while you are holding her ignore it and keep the pressure steady. It might at first seem like it's taking forever, it takes lots of patience but she will learn. Everything she knows goes against this which is why it is so important to reward the good and ignore the bad. If she relates stopping/backing to being yanked on and pulled on why would she want to? It would just be easier to brace and keep going right? Trust me if you are patient enough and remember to reward every little try she will soon be stopping on a dime! All of my barrel horses (OTTB and others) can do a near sliding stop in the middle of a barrel pattern with the slightest cue. It just takes patience and consistency. __________________ Do not mind anything that anyone tells you about anyone else. Judge everyone and everything for yourself.

01-23-2006, 08:20 PM
MeAndMyHorses Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kennewick, Washington Posts: 103	my mare k, i understand

01-23-2006, 08:38 PM
ThorArb Kid Safe Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Conyers, GA Posts: 5,787	I dont believe any one is saying that you ARE yanking, jerking, or trying to give any negative feedback. You asked for their advice, and this is all they are giving. Have you had your horse's teeth looked at? And is everything fitting correctly? She isnt hurting anywhere? I would go back to some basic ground work. Like ground driving. Just as you would with a green horse. Like she is "new" to the whole concept. Then go from there. Teach her the basics all over again, from the ground. Then get on her, and try from there. It could take anywhere from a couple days to months. Depends on you and your horse. Is that her in your avatar by the way? She's a pretty girl if it is! Brittany __________________ Grab life by the Horns!

01-23-2006, 08:59 PM
MeAndMyHorses Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kennewick, Washington Posts: 103	Her teeth are fine, her equipement fits correctly, and no, she dosen't seem to be hurting anywhere. I just started ground driving her and she acts as though she has done it before. I realize that she is not going to change over night and it will take time. I asked for advice yes, but some feedback feel more like attacks then advice. I ado appreciate your advice..Thank You . And yes, that is her in my avatar, thanks, I think she is pretty too.

01-23-2006, 09:51 PM
Nogami47 Newborn Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 24	She is sweet looking! I love her face. I bet if you can get her over this you will have a wonderful horse. To me the key is this: "a release of rein pressure." I think this is true for most horses, not just race horses. Remember, horses naturally lean into pressure and have to be taught to yield to it. So when you try to teach the "whoa" by only taking up the rein and not releasing, the horse doesn't understand and you get into the pulling battle. What I would do is cover all the bases. When you lead her in a halter, does she stop respectfully when you do? If not, train at that level. You should be able to walk, trot, and canter her in hand. If you walk in front of her, she should stop dead, not try to walk through you. If she's good at that, how is she on the lunge line? Make sure she's good at that level next. Only then would I get on and ask for a walk. I would do the take-and-release on the rein when asking for the halt, and definitely use the wall trick if you need to. Another good suggestion was breathing - long, deep breaths. Check out Sally Swift's Centered Riding. This helped me enormously with a "whoa-less" horse I worked with. When I wanted him to stop, I used normal rein pressure for the take-and-release, then imagined a huge chain anchoring me (and him) to the ground. I couldn't believe how well it worked. You might want to look for her videos - any good tack shop should either have them or be able to get them for you.