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Old 02-05-2012, 09:06 PM  
Halter broke
 
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How to break the habit of rearing on ground and in saddle?

Just like it says. My mare has now learned to rear when she does not want to do something. She refused to get her faced washed in the wash rack and walked backwards and reared. I lunged her on spot and she went right in after. Again I cinched her and she reared. She had also reared on the trail cause she wanted to go back home. How can we break this habit on the ground and in the saddle safely? I want to start using a stud chain around the nose to keep her down, but what else can I do? She is becoming dangerous. I will be having someone experience ride her or i will have to save up and get her to a trainer. She did have bad training to load which taught her to rear. She has never reared with me for about 1 1/2 years after training. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks so much
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:28 AM  
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I'd have her seen by a vet to make sure there is not a pain reason for rearing with the saddle on first of all. And it does sound like at least a good part of her rearing is because she has learned it gets her out of something (such as the ride, or getting her face washed) I would use a stud chain over her nose only if she tries to rear when leading, don't ever tie her with it for sure.

Rearing is a super dangerous thing, so please if you are not experienced with this kind of thing get a trainer to evaluate her and help you. Do this quickly because this can get much worse! And someone would get hurt.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:01 AM  
Halter broke
 
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Thank you so much for replying. I had her checked by a chiropractor to make sure nothing was going on with her back first and even had the saddle checked. She only has a fit sometimes, not all the time which makes me to believe it could be attitude. My husband is the one that rode her out and she did great until she wanted to come home. Which her baby was weaned about 5 months ago. They have been separated ever since. This was the first time she ever reared while being ridden.

I would never tie with a stud chain thats for sure. Only used to make sure she does not think she can get away with things. Cause when you pull of course her reaction is to rear higher. So, possibly with pressure on top she might think to stay down. I do not want to stop all work with her as for lunging, saddleing, and ground work. Although she wont back up either for me. She used to be very sensitive but I believe the training made her stubborn or ? So, I thought someone else might need to help her out. But, thanks for the reply. I do have a guy that is going to ride her and see what she does. She is very smart and will probably not do anything, lol. If this does not work I will be saving for a trainer.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:39 AM  
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Riley reared once when I was leading him. Without reason. By reason, I mean, I once had one rear because I accidently zapped him with the electric gate, I had the same one rear because it was a very very windy day and they were antsy and the dogs suddenly came flying out of the bush.

Riley reared because I was moving to slow to get him to his buddies and he wanted to get away. Tried to run while I was still holding him when he came down. He was about 5. Difference between the reasons for rears, Riley just wanted his own dang way.

I went absolutely bonkers on him. Keep in mind this horse is never ever treated harshly, doesn't require it. Then I made him stand still with me. Then walk quietly, and when we got in the field I made him stand for about 10 mins before letting him go.

Yup, reared once. (not counting the other two times caused by someone else and it was their fault and handling that caused it)
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:23 AM  
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Be careful!! Rearing is my least favorite "vice", and can be very dangerous on the ground and under saddle. The stud chain is a good idea, but it's not likely to be a long-term fix. Ideally you want a chain long enough that it can go over the nose, run through the ring on the opposite side, then attach to the ring up near their eye. Just putting it over the nose and attaching to the ring on the other side of the nose can just end up pulling the halter into the horse's eye. Like dreamcleaner, I'd light right into the horse if it goes up while I'm on the ground, a couple of good pops with the stud chain, plus smacking it with the end of the leadrope or a crop on the shoulder, and I always use my voice. Not screaming, but loud, low "CUT IT OUT" or "QUIT". You MUST stay out of range of feet! Under saddle, I do whatever I can to keep the horse moving FORWARD to try and keep them from going up. If they're starting to go up or refusing to move straight forward, I'll turn them to get their feet moving and make it hard for them to have the balance to go straight up.

You really should get some help with this, whether it's send the horse to the trainer, or get an experienced friend or trainer to come out and get you started on how to handle it. Good luck, and BE SAFE.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:33 AM  
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This is common when there are been expecatations the horse isn't trained to do. In the wash rack, there is a fear of water getting in the ears. Try using just a wet rag and start with her neck and gradually work your way to her jaw. If she raises her head, go back to her neck. You must be very patient and help her get used to this. By going back to a comfortable area, for her, you are not pushing the issue and giving her no cause to rear. Same with the cinching. Tie a piece of twine on the loose end and hang on to it. Watch her reaction as you lift the cinch to touch her belly. If she begins to move in any direction the twine allows you to lower the cinch yet still have hold of it. Repetition is the key here, Allow it to touch, lower, touch lower. After a dozen times she shouldn't be paying much mind. If so, pull it a little tighter then lower. You get the idea. As for rearing under saddle, when you ride keep her moving in arcs, to the left for a few strides then to the right. If she is constantly bending it gets hard for her to plant her back end and rear. The barn and companions represent security to her.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:20 AM  
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While riding you could use a tie down. It will prevent her from getting her head up and will put pressure on the top of her head of she does come up. Pulling on the reins can pull her over backwards depending on how high she gets.

To teach rearing as a trick you kick the horse forward while holding it back until it gets so frustrated it pops up a bit. Then it gets rewarded. You want to make sure you're not rewarding her by mistake by stopping what it is she's trying to avoid. It sounds to me like she's figured out it's a good evasive tactic.
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Last edited by NorthernHorseGirl : 02-06-2012 at 08:21 AM. Reason: Typos
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:26 AM  
Halter broke
 
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Dreamcleaner ~ It was actually on a trail that this happened about 1/2 a mile out already. We actually had another horse with her thats why we thought she would be ok. Yes, I told my husband to get off so he didnt get hurt, but of course finshed the trail. The reason I believe she reared is my husband tried getting her to moving forward again. Kicking, turning, clucking and nothing. She was planted. So he very lightly smacked her on the neck with the reins (should have been her behind) but he had to act quickly before she started getting ideas and nohing happened. Like she shut him out. The second smack was a little harder and nothing still. The third thats when she reared and just stood there afterwards. I don't think she wanted to do anything. When she gets scared she actually doesnt rear just jumps to the side and stares. That's why I believe she just didn't want to. Thank you

Sfl89 ~ I will try that with the stud chain up the cheek. The hard thing with Jesse, my mare, is that you can kick her and she will not move. I'll try turning and kicking to disengage her rearend to offset her and see if that works. I actually have someone very experienced that is going to try riding her to see if he can help her. I'll be saving in the meantime for a trainer. The problem is she is so unpredictable and will be fine one day and be crazy the next. I can actually ride her bareback and with only a halter and shes perfect. Maybe she wants to be an Indian horse, lol. Thank you

Slim pikkens ~ I'm sorry I should have explained better to you guys. I actually only wash with a rag in the face right now. We had an issue with cleaning her nose before, like a year ago cause of a year old injury, and I gave her a good smack in the neck with the leadrope and she stopped right then. She hasn't had an issue since. This is a normal routine for me since we live in AZ with so much dust I like to keep their face and nose clean. She just started backing up and probably since I tried gently keeping tention for her to release she decided to rear instead. With cinching I have been riding her for about 2 years off and on since she was pregnant. She has never offered to rear with this. I know it was too long of wait to discipline her between cinching and her rearing. I did take her straight to the round pen and lunged her, untightened the cinch and cinched again. I did that about 4 times in between lunging and she didnt rear again. Thank you for your reply

NorthernHorseGirl ~ I think the guy that is going to ride her is going to try a tie down. When she rears she is High Ho Silver. Straight up. I was so surprised that my husbamd was able to stay on. Which was great so she didn't learn it can dismount her rider. I just need her to learn this is unexceptable behavior and needs to stop but i dont know if i am strong enough or experienced enough to fix it. Thank you for the great suggestion.

Thank you all. You guys got me thinking in how I can handle her when it happens. This was not a normal thing for her and is so unpredictable that its difficult to figure out. Thank you everyone so much.
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:48 PM  
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I do not agree with using stud chains unless your handling a stallion. That's why their called 'stud chains' and unless a horse is accustomed to the pressure points and the handler is very knowledgeable about them they can cause the problem to escalate into a blowup.
A horse that is rearing is suffering from either a pain or being disrespectful and if this isn't a pain problem then this vice needs to be corrected ASAP since, in my book, its the most dangerous and hardest habit to break.
When she rears under saddle you need to focus on keeping her feet moving and try to keep the forward motion. After all, a horse can not rear if their feet is moving. If she plants her feet, disengage her hind quarters which will throw her into neutral sort to speak. If she doesn't know how to do that then you need to go back to your groundwork.
Now if she rears with you on the ground, then stay parallel to her shoulder at all times. It's the safest place for you. Then pull her head to the side and once again get her hind quarters moving.
Don't be afraid to yell at her 'NO' 'STOP' or 'QUIT' and maybe slap her on the shoulder. If she knows she has done wrong she will understand and accept the punishment.
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:16 PM  
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FYI: A stud chain can give you exactly the opposite that you are looking for- when you apply pressure/ pain, she may very well rear to avoid it.. in other words, that is not going to stop her.

While riding you could use a tie down. It will prevent her from getting her head up and will put pressure on the top of her head of she does come up.


This is a myth. A horse can still rear with a tie down on. And it can also make it worse for you as a rider if she rears and can't catch her balance b/c the head is tied.. Again, I'd not try this as a fix.

Rearing is awful. There's so many posts on here about it, with lots of info. So as not to miss anything, I'd research them.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:49 PM  
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A tie down will do nothing to stop a horse from rearing and a "stud chain" which is more correctly called a shank is not connected in any way to stallions . It is one of the most useful devices for mares, stallions or geldings . on the race track almost all horses of all genders are handled with a shank either over the nose or in the lip.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:06 PM  
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Quote:
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A tie down will do nothing to stop a horse from rearing and a "stud chain" which is more correctly called a shank is not connected in any way to stallions . It is one of the most useful devices for mares, stallions or geldings . on the race track almost all horses of all genders are handled with a shank either over the nose or in the lip.
Agree with this.
Tie downs are attempts to fix a vise not through training but by incorrect use of some equipement. Tiedowns have limited application, useful in roping where a horse is suddenly pulled to a stop, without the time to set him up for a stop, like a reiner, and in games, where the horse learns to use it to balance at speed, doing fast turns
Tie downs can be down right dangerous, trail riding, and horses have drown , crossing rivers with one on
Since I don't have horses on the tract, but do show them in hand, I use a chain when needed, run under the chin. You won't see a horse without one on at a breed show in halter or showmanship. The stud shank, used correctly, produces a horse that leads lightly, at your shoulder, respecting your space and on a loose shank. Just like you seldom need to apply spurs to a horse ridden correctly and educated to leg aids, knowing spurs will be applied if they don't respond to light leg alone, so does ahorse become very respectful and light on the ground with the proper use of a stud shank.
I guess one could call it a shank with a chain on the end, but that is too much of a mouth full
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:15 PM  
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I would definitely rethink the tie-down. I was boarding at a barn a couple of years back and the barn owner had a horse rear and fall over on him while it was wearing a tie-down. The horse was known to rear, and the BO thought a tie-down would prevent it, but things didn't work out that way. Luckily, they were in an indoor arena with soft footing or else he could have been seriously hurt.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:58 PM  
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Instead of resorting to a piece of training equipment that will possibly endanger your mare and her rider try to invest in a good groundwork training book. Read it and learn how to preform a one-rein stop or also known as disengaging her hindquarters.
If you wish to use a 'shank' try to find someone that will educate you on how to use one. I still and will forever not agree that a simple chain that can cause serious damage to a horse's face and possibly make matters worse is the 'quick fix' to all problems when it comes to a respect issue. If your mare has been properly taught how to lead and give to pressure then there will never be a need for something that is used in halter classes or breeding sheds.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:34 PM  
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If you feel your mare is going to rear, disengage the hind end by asking her to move her hips around or do a "turn on the forehand" ... You should be able to do this from the ground at any point and if the horse knows it on the ground, it will likely catch on quickly once you tell it to move its hips from the saddle. If she can't plant her hind feet or engage her hips, she can't rear. While you are riding her, stay light on her face and always, always keep her moving forward and thinking "forward thoughts" ... a horse that likes to rear under saddle will find it difficult to stop and rear at the jog or lope! If she slows down, give a looser rein and urge her forward with a cluck or a kiss ... use leg if you have to, just don't let her stop and plant the hind end. If you have to do circles and kick the hip over to disengage, then do it and proceed forward again.

Should you miss her early warning signs and she DOES rear ... get right off of her face ... do NOT pull. If you pull on her she will only rear higher and fall on top of you. Let go of all pressure on the face completely and when she comes down, get her going FORWARD and fast. If you have to climb off and then work her in a circle around you ... do it. She will not learn that rearing is bad if you put a chain on her face and hurt her while she's doing it. She will simply go further into panic mode and completely melt down because of the added pain stimulant. Instead, wait for her to come down and then get after her. Make her work so she learns that rearing does not get her the rest and relaxation she is looking for; it only get her more work.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:03 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit08 View Post
Instead of resorting to a piece of training equipment that will possibly endanger your mare and her rider try to invest in a good groundwork training book. Read it and learn how to preform a one-rein stop or also known as disengaging her hindquarters.
If you wish to use a 'shank' try to find someone that will educate you on how to use one. I still and will forever not agree that a simple chain that can cause serious damage to a horse's face and possibly make matters worse is the 'quick fix' to all problems when it comes to a respect issue. If your mare has been properly taught how to lead and give to pressure then there will never be a need for something that is used in halter classes or breeding sheds.
JUst to clarify the `stud shank thing;, my horses are led all the time with a simple cotton lead shank and web nylon halter. The only time I use a stud shank, is after the horse already knows how to lead, and if that horse will be shown in hand
I have handled lots of horses and seen kids and adults also show in hand, without the horse having been taught finesse and lightness using a chain, correctly.
Those horses either push ahead of the handler, or drag behind on a tight lead, often not even picking up the jog when asked. They also won`t square up with distractions around them, move or cock a hind foot and go to sleep.
Horses are only as good as you expect them to be.
The other time I use a stud shank, is on a horse that understands perfectly well how to lead, but has decided not to, and has learned the human `bluff`is faulty. Mainly , through correct training, we have a horse believe and conditioned to respond to a simple halter and lead shank, when we know darn well that we could never control a horse that way, were he not conditioned to believe we can.
Well, once in awhile a horse decides to test a halter or a bit, or what have you, and realizes his won strength. He them suceeds in pulling away when lead, balking, rearing , halter pulling successfully, running through a bit, etc , etc.
In order to re train such a horse and break that vise, we have to ,as Tom Dorrance states, `be as gentle as possible BUT also as firm as needed, in order to make that horse a good citzen
We now have a spoiled horse, who must now fail at any attempt to balk, rear, bolt, halter pull, or pull away being lunged or led, thus replacing those vises with consistant ingrained good behavior. We are not strong enough to physically prevent a horse from out pulling us, thus we have to make him a believer that he will both fail to do so, and that trying to do so has uncomfortable consequences
I have had all kinds of `good ole girls`brought in for breeding, declared by their owners to `love people`Well, those old gals walked into your space when led, either dragged behind when being led where
they did not wish to go, or charged ahead ,heading back where they wanted to go.
Sure, things like chain shanks can be used incorrectly, same as spurs, curb bits any any other equipment, thus the person using them has to know both when and how to correctly apply them

The entire point is that this horse knows how to lead, but lately has decided to become resistant.
The chain under the chin does not cause any damage, and is attached so that there is instant release of any pressure under the jaw the moment the horse gives

As for rearing under saddle-a horse has to first stop and plant his butt in order to rear. You can prevent a rear by two methods, booting him foreward the minute he starts to stall out, or, as mentioned, boot those hips around, hard, thus disengaging the `motor
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Last edited by Smilie : 02-10-2012 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:57 PM  
Halter broke
 
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Thank you to everyone that responded. Just curious would a martingale work better for her to keep her head down instead of a tie down and it will still have some give to it?

Smile ~ yes, you are correct. I used to show Jesse in halter many times and she is very light. Stays at my shoulder always. I teach them to give to pressure and she even lowers her head on command to remove her halter. She just decided to start resisting. I am thinking this might have to go to a trainer so I don't make things worse if I do something wrong.

Thank you all so much. Hopefully we can help jer understand this is a bad thing
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:02 PM  
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A martingale wouldn't help any more than a tie down. They are useless crutches anyways and definitely won't correct a rearing behaviour. This is not going to be fixed by any equipment. It is going to be fixed by working hard with her and consistently correcting her when she does the wrong thing and encouraging her to do the right thing. There is no quick fix to this now that she has learned that rearing gets her out of work and intimidates people.

You may well need a trainer if you are not comfortable working her through these rearing fits by doing as has been suggested ... Good luck!! Rearing can be a tricky and dangerous habit to address ...

EDIT: I should explain that not all martingales are useless crutches all the time ... I think there is very little reason to use a standing martingale ... a running martingale is only slightly less useless and the only martingale I have ever seen work as a tool, not a crutch, is a german martingale, but any way you slice it, no martingale will stop rearing.
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:04 PM  
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I've always heard break an egg over their head when they rear
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:37 AM  
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Break an egg? Hmmmm.
I had a horse that would rear because she didn't want to bother with work. Someone gave her to me because of the problem. I whacked her on the head with a crop every time she went up and she was cured in about three rides. In retrospect, I would not take on that horse now. Rearing is really dangerous. One of my friends put a tie-down on her horse to stop rearing. The horse reared, panicked because the tie-down hurt him, and then flipped over backward. He flipped over and broke her back. It is a wonder she is not paralyzed.
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