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Old 12-15-2011, 02:26 PM  
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Tying up front leg

I was watching a video and they tied the horses front leg up, they never said why but the horse was very spooky, is this common training practice?
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:57 PM  
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Unless to try to force the horse into submission I really dot see the 'light' on that one.
Usually, I have read in times long ago, before NH, cowboys would tie up the legs to force the horse to giving up the fight. Be saddled and then rode.
My grandmother broke wild mustangs and knew a couple tricks that helped, like dumping a bag of warm water over their head which kind of 'shocked' them. Guess they thought it was blood? Not sure.
Maybe Smilie or EA can explain this better...
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:29 PM  
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My rescue horse had her back leg tied up, and was flipped to the ground repeatedly. Definitely abuse if you ask me. It did nothing other than turn her into a terrified wreck. It left scars on her back legs from rope burns.

I can see the benefit of holding the horses leg up with a rope, but I would never tie that rope solid. I always desensitize my horses to pressure on their legs. Sometimes I will put a rope around their legs and ask them to follow the pressure- it teaches them not to freak out if they get tangled in the fence. It seems to work pretty well. One day I came out and my mare had 3 legs in the wire fencing around one of the trees. My guess is she was trying to get to the grass next to the tree, got one leg caught, tried to walk forward, and ended up with all 3 legs in the wire. She was standing their calmly waiting for someone to come rescue her.

There are other methods that are more effective than tieing up the horse's leg. I didn't like the horse whisperer movie, due to that. It is too easily abused, and too traumatic to the horse. Although I've seen some trainers who can do it without it being abusive. It might be okay to do something like that for the purpose of restraint, in an emergency situation as a last resort. But to deliberately scare the horse when it is restrained like that is definitely abuse.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:31 PM  
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seen cowboys do it when a horse is really obnoxious when it comes to getting their feet trimmed
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:36 PM  
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I went to a Ray Hunt Clinic to audit and watched him do this to a horse. I didn't go back for the second or third day. He was very much one of the promoters of NH but it was torturous to watch this older horse struggle.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:52 PM  
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No, it is not common, although perhaps it was at one time when horses were "broke" rather than trained. I have never seen it done, nor can I think of a need for it.

I have seen people lead their horse by the front leg as a way to introduce it to hobbles, but that is definately not the same thing.
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Old 12-15-2011, 05:05 PM  
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In Buck Brannaman's book 'Faraway Horses' he talks about it (laying a horse down). He didn't like how it was used in 'The Horse Whisperer' because it was very dramatic and wasn't good horsemanship in that instance, but conceded that it made good movie making. He says that in certain instances it's a great tool to use on very difficult horses because it allows them to finally see that they can put their full trust in a person and not get hurt, and can really turn things around for the horse. He says it should only be done in very rare cases and by a professional only.
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Old 12-15-2011, 05:36 PM  
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I bo't a mare that was quick at cow kicking which meant no one could go near her hindquarters. A thick rope was tied around her neck. When she stepped into the ground loop her leg was drawn forward using the neck rope. She fought the rope for a few minutes until she realized each kick hurt her neck. When she relaxed, her foot was lowered. She caught on the first time. Abuse? You bet. She abused me with a well placed kick.
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Old 12-15-2011, 05:48 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EquineAlberta View Post
No, it is not common, although perhaps it was at one time when horses were "broke" rather than trained. I have never seen it done, nor can I think of a need for it.

I have seen people lead their horse by the front leg as a way to introduce it to hobbles, but that is definately not the same thing.
Agree. It is not common, and was used more in the days horses were 'broke' versus started under saddle
I have never done it
It might have application in dealing with a dangerous horse, but then I think with so many good minded horses available today, one does not need to deal with this type of horse. There is the 'other' solution for them
I just want to make sure that it is quite clear that 'traditional horse training is not the same as the type of training that was used in the good ole days, bringing un handled 4 and 5 year olds off of the range, and quickly making them earn a living, and unlike some NH people like to portray,good traditional training is not synominoius with rough methods
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:09 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim Pikkens View Post
I bo't a mare that was quick at cow kicking which meant no one could go near her hindquarters. A thick rope was tied around her neck. When she stepped into the ground loop her leg was drawn forward using the neck rope. She fought the rope for a few minutes until she realized each kick hurt her neck. When she relaxed, her foot was lowered. She caught on the first time. Abuse? You bet. She abused me with a well placed kick.
I had a similar mare except this one was horribly unpredictable.
Some days she was as good as gold then others she would suddenly attack you with her front hooves and kicked also.
I laid her down a couple times which did help to a point where I thought she would be ok for the first ride.
She blew up first time I sat on her (One of the reasons WHY I never put my feet all the way in the stirrups) I then hobbled her and sat on her then she was ok.

That mare went on to be unpredictable and I just sold her to whoever wanted a challenge. Probably should have sent her to the meat man.
I have come to the conclusion there is no room on this earth for mean horses, and I have vowed to never have a nasty horse in my hands.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:54 PM  
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Not only with breaking horses but with general handling of a nervous horse that may not stand still for some treatment ,I have seen the holding up of a leg{maybe not tied up but same concept}.At the vet you often see him get the owner hold up a leg on a horse so he stand quiet,not move while he is injecting a joint or trying to do some other procedure.As far as doing it with training a horse under saddle you don't see many do it anymore.If you have done your desensitizing & ground work prior to trying to saddle most horses should not require measures like that., But some horses are harder nuts to crack so I can see some people still using techniques like that.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:02 PM  
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Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
It might have application in dealing with a dangerous horse, but then I think with so many good minded horses available today, one does not need to deal with this type of horse. There is the 'other' solution for them
I just want to make sure that it is quite clear that 'traditional horse training is not the same as the type of training that was used in the good ole days, bringing un handled 4 and 5 year olds off of the range, and quickly making them earn a living, and unlike some NH people like to portray,good traditional training is not synominoius with rough methods
I agree with this,, and bandit's story about horse that was hobbled, I was taught to string a front leg up, by a large farm, that had many, many, to break/train, it was used VERY RARELY...and only on serious rearing problems, it worked, but again I was shown by someone who professionally trained LOTS of horses for a full time living.....( and this was in the early 90's before many of the problem horses that have been developed by NH gurus trying to do their own training ) I would not advise it for anyone that has not had someone show them, and has not had exp. with LOTS of horses ( hands on ) as it can be dangerous for horse, and person.

As a side note, the most recent that have needed it...for striking/kicking/etc. have been horse that were not rogues, or nuts, but had been raised/trained by someone/people that have tried to "train" using only videos/clinics, from the NH gurus, and have developed monsters....these are by far the most dangerous horse to try and handle/break ( which is what most people who break/train pro end up getting, when they become to dangerous for their owners to handle )

P.S. most of these types of horse are NOT SCARED, and by hobbling, or stringing a leg up ( which stringing is not tying it off, so it can be released if an emergency happens ) is not supposed to "scare them", it makes it very hard, to impossible for them to complete the behavior, then once it is "unlearned" then they can be let go......severe problems sometimes need major intervention as horses are very strong/capable...and they can very easily "get around" other methods....when a problem is severe enough....

Last edited by ahabarabs : 12-17-2011 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:29 PM  
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Completely agree with your points , A.A. Sorry, I am starting to use abriviations for user names! Probably as spelling was always a weak point for me, and no disrespect meant, whenever I use one!
I totally agree there are two types of horses that need these types of techniques. The first class are those that are truly bad minded, acting the way they do not because of poor training, but basic mindsets. These types need to be in a dog food can , looking out, or on some European dinner table
The second type is the proverbial 'barnyard pet', a horse that has learned to be disrespectful of humans due to improper training. These can be rehabilitated by correct training and handling, including methods one does not need to use on a horse that has a good mind and was never allowed to develope bad habits in the first place
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