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Old 12-24-2010, 08:53 PM  
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Engaging hind end

So I think I have a simple understanding of the difference between riding front to back and then engaging the hind end. Im thinking the hind end is engaged when they are reaching under themselves. Is this right.....

Next, you want a balance when you are riding in that you want the hind end engaged as well as the front. Not riding front to back, but possibly back to front....

Next, what are some exercises in and out of saddle that you can do to engage the hind end more.

Any information, suggestions and or explanations would be appreciated.

Next, how do you, or what exercises can you do that will

Last edited by Dreaming Luke : 12-24-2010 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:57 PM  
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Learn the classical seat as per the techniques used by Alois Podhajsky in his book the Complete Training of Horse And Rider. 50% of riding is seat and the other 50% is leg. Collection by seat/balance is the best way to get the horse's quarters under and get movement from behind to front. You ideally want the horse to move from back to front and up at the withers at the same time. It's one of the few things that is easier done than said once one sees it done.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:01 PM  
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Thank you....I have a few books on order right now, and will add that one to my reading!
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:27 PM  
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Yes, you want to ride back to front, and with more legs than hands-about 80% legs versus hands
All the drive from the back won't do anything, unless you also contain that engery generated, and keep it from just flowing out the front
This is done by having a horse give softly to the bit, thus compressing his body, lifting his back by tightening abdominal muscles and keeping shoulders up
You have to have the feel,as when to hold more, when to drive and when to reward with release
If instead you just drive and the horse is striding deep, yet has his shoulders dropped, back hollow, and he is over flexed with strong rein contact, he is not collected, but in a false frame, a fault often seen with the rider thinking his horse is moving collected, when in fact the horse is on his forehand.
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:17 AM  
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Agreed with the others, I think 80% leg/seat, 20 hands is good analogy......exercises to help engage back end are lots of transitions all gaits into all gaits, especially walk/canter/canter walk.......whoa/walk/back/etc. circles, serpentines, turn on fore/hind.....leg yields....the list could go on, and on......BUT the most important part is something that Smilie mentioned in that you must know how to ask, when to release/reward, etc. otherwise all the exercises in the world will do no good.

Basically the way I like to look at it, or tell it ( easier in my discipline to see/feel, because of high degree of collection/engagement needed ) but anyhow, when a horse is first learning to collect, and use it's whole body, it is not easy for them, they are used to having their front ends for movement/balance, they have to relearn to move.....so when they first start learning to move, ( especially under saddle ) they are going to try to come out of frame, and when they are made to stay in frame...they are going to be unsure of themselves, walk is gonna be "baby steps" trot is going to be a "jog".......and slowly you can build up everything, once they learn ( and get in shape physically ) if you are riding your horse, and getting "false" collection, via a stronger bit/curb chain/etc. the they are going to keep moving as normal, and just dropping their jaw/neck to the pressure, and will still be quite heavy on the front end, and/or be hollow backed/rigid.
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:36 AM  
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you are riding your horse, and getting "false" collection, via a stronger bit/curb chain/etc. the they are going to keep moving as normal, and just dropping their jaw/neck to the pressure, and will still be quite heavy on the front end, and/or be hollow backed/rigid.
Yesterday 06:27 AM

Very good point, as to feeling true collection
It takes time, unfortunately to develope this feel, and it is hard to explain with words alone. You will feel like you are sitting higher, as the horse's back is lifted, and footfalls will be light, with cadence, versus heavy, jamming into the ground
Actually, in my discipline (western pl ) you will feel when a horse looses that collection and elevation of the shoulders when he starts to speed up, esp at the lope. You can be pretty sure that the horse has dumped onto his front end
He will also be leaning on the bit
It is easier for horses to do things fast, esp at the lope, than slow and collected
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:56 AM  
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best exercises for engaging the hind end and getting your horse reaching into contact...ground poles and cavaletti, and transitions. I just got "101 Dressage Exercises" and there is a great warmup section that has a ton of exercises with ground poles that will help get your horse moving from behind. I can't wait to try them!
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Old 12-27-2010, 01:25 PM  
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What ground poles are really good for is teaching a horse to keep his shoulders up
They are great tools to use once your horse has the basics of collection and is pretty solid at all gaits and transititions
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:28 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
you are riding your horse, and getting "false" collection, via a stronger bit/curb chain/etc. the they are going to keep moving as normal, and just dropping their jaw/neck to the pressure, and will still be quite heavy on the front end, and/or be hollow backed/rigid.
Yesterday 06:27 AM

Very good point, as to feeling true collection
It takes time, unfortunately to develope this feel, and it is hard to explain with words alone. You will feel like you are sitting higher, as the horse's back is lifted, and footfalls will be light, with cadence, versus heavy, jamming into the ground
Actually, in my discipline (western pl ) you will feel when a horse looses that collection and elevation of the shoulders when he starts to speed up, esp at the lope. You can be pretty sure that the horse has dumped onto his front end
He will also be leaning on the bit
It is easier for horses to do things fast, esp at the lope, than slow and collected

Yeah same with Arab english.....it's a lot easier for them to try and speed up than to engage, and lift....of course it makes it much nicer/natural if they are mentally/physically able to do what is being asked.

Although I have never trained/shown western, I see what you mean when they "glide" versus "pound" the dirt......Arab western is a little bit different than AQHA type, hafta see if I can find video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgzkA...eature=related
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:00 AM  
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Engaging and Disengaging Hind and Fore Quarters

Hi:

There are several free videos on youtube I would suggest:

a. Young Horse Management: Riding a Young Horse Pt 1, eXtension they have several this is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5y1L5Mg16M

b. Training Tips by Larry Stauffer: Teaching a Horse to Respond to Leg Pressure he as several on youtube; this is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIao1...eature=related

John
NH Trainer
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