overreactive to the leg, bouncy canter?

[horsecrazygal]

I have a 5yr old mare that I broke by myself. She had NO training before I worked with her. She has done very well under saddle so far... It's just that she is super sensitive and it is almost like she is over enthusiastic about everything.

If you barely touch her with your leg she will trot, if you pick up the reins and "think" about cantering she will canter. If you tighten the reins a little and shift your weight for a side pass she will side pass. She has a perfect whoa- you just lean back and "think" about stopping. Only trouble is her speed is very inconsistent. Whenever you put leg on her, she tends to overreact and speed up. Then I end up getting a little in her mouth, and using my seat to get her to slow down again. She also tends to toss her head when leg is applied.

My question is: How can I get her to accept leg contact? Are there any exercises I can try that will help with this?

The other issue we are working on is balancing at the canter. She tends to drop her shoulder around the corner and is very bouncy and uncoordinated feeling. I know this is typical green horse stuff, but I'm just wondering what exercises will help her overcome this...

[GoLightly]

Lots of time, lots of patience, I'm sure there are riders thinking right now "What the heck, my horse needs a mini-earthquake before he'll even care to move."
You're lucky, really, unless you don't like sensitivity. She sounds like an earnest, lots of "try", horse.. This is a good thing. Unless she's terribly nervous. Is she?
Her speed issues are more balance issues, and as long as you keep the work times short and your training clear, she'll progress as she strengthens. It will happen. Try riding her twice on one day, keeping the lessons short.

She may not be ready to canter corners yet. Canter her on the straight, then gently transition/re-balance back to the trot, it will give her the idea of sitting up/re-balancing through the corner. Be careful you aren't "rolling over her inside shoulder" at the canter.
Keep your weight on your outside seat-bone, and look up and around the turn.
don't look down.
As she learns to trust your (I assume) quiet, steady leg, she'll react less.
Hours and miles

Sorry, I be quiet now

[AnChap]

your horse is EXACTLY like mine. I really appreciate his "try" but it is hard sometimes because he's so sensitive. I'm curious too about approaches to fixing leg sensitivity.

As for the canter, I think it just takes tons of time to balance. I've had my horse almost a year and we don't canter yet because he isn't totally balanced. We do TONS of circles, suppling, practice making himself carry himself and keep his shoulders from falling in...balancing himself basically. We're getting there, slowly but surely, and I'm hoping after he is really carrying himself correctly, we'll be ready to canter. Until then, for he and I anyway, it isn't going to work to move up to the canter, but it's different for everyone

[Horselady44]

as far as sensitivity...you need to DEsensatize that area. Take objects and rub them all over the area, lightly smack them with the objects against their flanks while making sure they hold still. Reward them for holding still and correct them if they move. Start with just a towel and move up to a tarp and a bag of cans ect. Start out just by rubbing them and when they hold still and are relaxed move onto the scarier objects. Make sure to reward them for standing still. Then when they are comfortable...have them walk while you sack them out with the objects. They are too sensitive in those areas so you need to desensize those areas just a bit there are alot of videos on desensatizing...its just like how you would desensize their head or ears take it slow. Reward, and correct of course...this is JMO...GOOD LUCK

[GoLightly]

I would wonder why you'd want as horse to be less sensitive. They are very sensitive creatures. I guess I don't understand the problem. It's actually good that she's sensitive, imo. That she reacts to your thoughts, is something most riders aspire to.
Or at least, maybe they should.

I still wonder, is she fearfully nervous? Hot? "Prancey?" Are you "afraid" of her?
If she's never been ridden before, you must be a lovely rider, if she's listening so well already.

Horses can read rider's minds pretty easily. It's the vice-versa that is much more challenging.
Whoah, over-philosophical here, sorry

Any pictures? I ask hopefully? Bestest part of this forum is all the pictures!

[gaitedhorse]

I love it when a horse thinks my thoughts! You should be thankful that your mare is that in tune with you! As for desensitizing just try when you are sitting still move your legs around and if she stands still praise her. Then try it while riding. Enough repititions and you should have her over the overreacting.

[visionquest]

I think it's great that your horse is sensitive to your every move, most people wish for that!!! NOW, what you need to do is CONTROL yourself in the saddle. Slow your breathing and your seat when asking to trot from the walk and instead of putting your leg on, just move your seat a little faster and then slow your seat down and breathe slower to go back to walk. Do the same when asking for the canter. Your cues should come from you seat bones first and then be followed by your thigh, upper calf, lower calf and then heel. Only use the rest of your leg if you don't get a response from your seat bone.

[horsecrazygal]

Thanks everyone.

I think I am going to work on desensitizing her to pressure on her side. I tried pressing on her sides today while standing next to her and she got very annoyed with me and kept trying to walk off. It's funny b/c she is fine for brushing, cinching up, blanketing etc. Just doesn't like pressure on her sides. Of course, she could just have gotten annoyed because she didn't know what I wanted. She tends to get really frusterated when she doesn't know what you want her to do.

GoLightly - no she is not nervous or prancey. I am not afraid of her. She just tends to be a sensitive horse. I want to be able to put some pressure on her sides without her speeding up so that we can improve our shoulder-in and sidepasses at the trot. Plus if anyone else ever rides her I would like her to be ok if their legs are somewhat loose. Otherwise I think she will beat them to death with an extended trot.

I was so proud of her yesterday. I tried riding her bareback/bridleless in the roundpen and she was great! Just walk/trot whoa and back and change directions. Considering how many breaks she has had in training, and how infrequently she is worked, it amazes me she has come as far as she has.

[AnChap]

I think I understand why you want the horse a little less sensitive, since like I said, my horse is very similiar. In my case anyway, my horse is soooo sensitive to the leg that if my leg moves (well, we've fixed it somewhat and worked on him so it's better, but before-) he would just ignore anything else we were working on, or reins, or steering and just try to go fasterfasterfaster. He was almost fearful that if he didn't jump out with leg movement, he'd be in trouble. My horse is very afraid of anyone with spurs, even if he just hears them, so we think someone was very harsh with him, so that was the root of his problem.
I love that he's sensitive and in tune to me, but it works out better now that I've learned to keep my leg more still, and he has learned to relax a bit with the leg. I hope that helps somewhat

[singing tree]

Some of you Pros out there might not like this idea, but I have found that if you give a voice warning, then the lightest of cues, your horse is ready to do what you want. Of course, all my horses also drive, so knowing what "walk on" and "trot" means are all part of the deal anyway. This mare sounds like a delight to me, if you learn to trust each other. But you are right - she may be a bit too sensitive for just anyone to get on especially when she is still just learning what it is all about. But I would still choose one like yours over one whose first reaction is to just stand when you ask it to move, etc.

Lots of miles, trying to always give the cues in the same way (with a voice command slightly before the cue, if you choose) will make a huge difference.

I am sure you will figure it all out!

[bubbleslove]

Originally Posted by AnChap

I think I understand why you want the horse a little less sensitive, since like I said, my horse is very similiar. In my case anyway, my horse is soooo sensitive to the leg that if my leg moves (well, we've fixed it somewhat and worked on him so it's better, but before-) he would just ignore anything else we were working on, or reins, or steering and just try to go fasterfasterfaster. He was almost fearful that if he didn't jump out with leg movement, he'd be in trouble. My horse is very afraid of anyone with spurs, even if he just hears them, so we think someone was very harsh with him, so that was the root of his problem.
I love that he's sensitive and in tune to me, but it works out better now that I've learned to keep my leg more still, and he has learned to relax a bit with the leg. I hope that helps somewhat

Same here. Mr Bubbles was spurred early on to make him very sensitive to leg cues, but seeing as how I'm not as sharp of a rider as I used to be, it's sort of a problem. If we're trotting and my leg shifts a little the wrong way, he'll just about take off. Because his trot feels like I'm getting jack hammered, it happens a lot! We've done a combo of teaching me better leg control, and getting him slightly desensitized by having someone hold him on the ground while I gently swing my legs forwards and backwards on his sides. Eventually it's a great thing to have (I'd rather just have to give a little signal than feel like I'm beating on his sides!), but while you're learning to steady yourself, not so good.

[redboy]

Originally Posted by horsecrazygal

I have a 5yr old mare that I broke by myself.
She had NO training before I worked with her.
She has done very well under saddle so far... It's just that she is super sensitive and it is almost like she is over enthusiastic about everything.

If you barely touch her with your leg she will trot, if you pick up the reins and "think" about cantering she will canter. If you tighten the reins a little and shift your weight for a side pass she will side pass. She has a perfect whoa- you just lean back and "think" about stopping. Only trouble is her speed is very inconsistent. Whenever you put leg on her, she tends to overreact and speed up. Then I end up getting a little in her mouth, and using my seat to get her to slow down again. She also tends to toss her head when leg is applied.

My question is: How can I get her to accept leg contact? Are there any exercises I can try that will help with this?

The other issue we are working on is balancing at the canter. She tends to drop her shoulder around the corner and is very bouncy and uncoordinated feeling. I know this is typical green horse stuff, but I'm just wondering what exercises will help her overcome this...

I also agree that having a horse that is 'sensitive' to leg cues and weight shifts is much better than a horse with 'dead' sides.
JMO here, but I think you should practice riding her with soft, but 'still' and consistant, leg pressure so she doesn't feel inclined to run away from leg pressure when it is applied to her sides.
My horse was like that when I first got him, and at that time I was working with a dressage instructor.
She had me keep my legs quiet, but keep 'applied' pressure on Red's sides, and direct the feet by doing numerous little exercises.
For example, I would practice keeping him moving forward at the walk, in a straight line, while using gentle, rythmic squeezes, first on one side, then the other,
back and forth in a rythum, until he realized that he didn't need to be so reactive to/ run away from, my leg squeezes/cues.
Also, that kind of 'tuned in' horse, responds well to verbal cues,.., Cluck for trot, kiss for canter, etc.
Or just lightly shake the reins, and 'kiss' for the canter cue.
And apply your leg cue, and verbal cue at the same time, so she associates, and differentiates between the individual cues.

As for balancing in the corners, I would wait until she is more accepting of your legs on her sides, and then practice with more speed, trotting and cantering.
She needs your legs, and leg placement, to help 'hold her up' in the corners so she doesn't 'fall in'.
But she also needs to know that leg pressure is ok, not something to shy away from.
JMO, but hope it helps.

She sounds like a delightful mare to ride!!

[Smilie]

Hi
Well, one should right from the beginning ride a horse with more legs than reins.
Legs control a horse from the whithers back-ribs hips
Collection starts at the back, so if you truly want a responsive horse, versus a horse that over reacts to legs, you have to ride with legs, applying more or less presssure as needed, and a horse thus learns legs do not mean speed up, but rather to drive more from behind, round, keep shoulders up, instead of dragging themselves along on their front end
If you are working towards eventually having afinished western horse, you will need to be able to ride that horse on a loose rein, off of seat and leg, while the horse learns self carriage (able to stay in frame and collected without rein support )
You can't ride a board, and without using legs to teach a horse correct body aleigment in all manovers, you have no way of getting ahorse truly broke and light-a horse where you apply such invisible and light leg cues that anyone watching can't see, yet you get those instant walk to lope departures, the cadence sidepass and backup that allows you to manover through a tight trail pattern-etc

[EquineAlberta]

I think you will find she will be more accepting of your aids, and less over reactive, if you always use a half halt before applying the aids. Your horse may just want too hard to please and gets anxious waiting for the next request. If she knows you will give her a subtle warning prior to all requests, she should be less nervous about it. The thing is you have to be consistent and always offer the warning.

For the canter issue, change your perception; don't worry about her dropping her shoulder instead consider she is loosing her hindquarters. Keeping her hindquarters in and underneath her in the corners will show her how to balance better for the corners and start her thinking about carrying more weight on her hindquarters in general. Don't ride the shoulders, right the bum.

Karen

[soccer mom]

Zeke is very sensitive also. I ride bareback occasionally and slide my legs around (gently) so he gets used to the close contact. It has worked. He will never be a dead-sided horse.

[bubbleslove]

Oh - RB reminded me. One thing I learned with dressage on an OTTB I used for lessons: sort of 'hug' with your legs. I found that with Mr Bubbles, if I didn't have my legs touching him at all times, he over reacted to a leg cue like he got an electrical shock. If I'm holding him a little with my legs, all it takes is a little squeeze of a calf muscle and he's listening to my cue. He's also much more forgiving of any leg movement that way.

[GoLightly]

"I want to be able to put some pressure on her sides without her speeding up so that we can improve our shoulder-in and sidepasses at the trot."

Ah, but those are "un-balancing" exercises, if you will, for a green horse. Kinda rattles them anyway. They are already worried about falling over.
Better to work on straight lines, and "square corners". That may be why she's wobbly in canter, too. It's TougH getting all her muscles coordinated to carry you properly. Bending and flexing laterally (side to side) should be introduced clearly in walk, for a while. Bendy isn't as important as straight, for the green horse. They are already wobbling along, trying to carry you.
The trot is a very symmetrical gait, and should be encouarged forward and straight.
Each gait is a building block for the next.

Anyway, the gist of that overly long ramble is
(drum roll)
do that bendy stuff at walk, where you can slowly show her leg pressure isn't skeery. It IS skeery, for the young prey animal.

Have fun, she sounds like a lovely mare, and you're doing a great job!

[Smilie]

There is a world of difference between accepting legs and being dead sided, or the other extreme, over reactive
A well broke performance horse accepts legs, and trained correctly, responds to very light invisible leg cues. You have to ride with legs versus getting into their mouth, thus the ideal-ride with more legs than hands.
If instead you have ahorse that over reacts to legs-either by swishing the tail, or jumping ten feet side ways when you want one-you have not a sensitive horse but rather one just as un educated as a horse with dead sides
By the posts here, it seems many equate accepting legs with being dead sided-this is entirely wrong
The idea is to train horses correctly to respond to legs alone. Once they understand leg aids, one rides with spurs. One always asks with legs first, then only goes to just enough spur pressure to get the desired response. Next time, you again ask with legs first, giving the horse a chance to respond to leg alone
A horse soon learns that you ride with spurs, and thus responds to very light leg, so you never have to go to he spur. That is the correct use of spurs, and used this way, ahorse does not become afraid of your leg, but instead becomes very responsive to very, very light leg aids
Try taking what many of you consider a sensitive horse(ie one that over reacts to legs ) and do a tight trail course. I garentee you will demolish the trail course !