Won't stop trying to bite

Appy_527 · 10-18-2009, 01:49 PM

Okay, I am having trouble with my 2 year old appy geling trying to bite me all the time. It makes it extremely difficult to sccomplish any training when he is constantly grabbing at me with his mouth and shoving his head and neck at me. I try to get after him but he just thinks it's a game and keeps it up. This has been going on for months and months. Some periods worse than others. But it never stops completely. Any advice?

Sonseeahray's_girl · 10-18-2009, 01:52 PM

When you say "I try to get after him" what exactly do you mean? What are the consequences of his biting?

EquineAlberta · 10-18-2009, 07:58 PM

Does your gelding have a friend to play with? Does he have enough turn out? How about dental work? Is he teething, in which case does he have things to chew on when left alone?

I think you are right that he thinks you are playing...2 year olds play rough, so you would have to be quite brutal to convince him otherwise. Spraying him in the face with a lemon is an interesting idea but he may find that amusing.

You may want to consider step one of Clicker training where you teach the horse to mind your space so it isn't mauling you for treats.

A simple approach is to not let his biting distract you from what you are doing; perhaps an elbow to the nose WITHOUT looking at the horse, and continue what you are doing. Make the biting less of an event.

You also may want to consider shortening the time you spend during each training session.

The problem with immitating the "lead mare" is that a young male horse has NO need of a relationship with the lead mare, so the lead mare is telling the horse to "F" off. It is not later trying to bond and train the horse. By acting super agressive like a "lead mare" and then trying to train the horse or bond with it you are sending it very mixed signals.

karen

GreyDot · 10-22-2009, 11:01 AM

Besides the fact that he's TWO and pretty much a "teenage punk", putting his teeth on things that don't belong to him (such as people...) is a definitel no-no, for ANY reason. Try not to resort to swatting him on the face, though, as that can, eventually, lead to head-shyness. Also, he'll just nip and lift his head, so you can't reach him. The elbow to the nose trick does work, if the head is at elbow level and you're fast enough. Also, you can take the pro-active approach and just put a flash noseband on him - and keep him busy when you're working with him, even just grooming or whatever. That way, he can try to bump you with his nose, but will have a harder time putting his teeth on you. Then, you can just keep doing what you're doing and the whole "fun" factor is taken away, so you can stay calm and rhythmical with your work. Plus, it's difficult to bite when you're asked to hop over little jumps or otherwise. If he nips when you're leading, make sure you're walking at his shoulder and not at his face. Don't let him drop behind you, as rearing and pawing is also a dominance game, so be careful. If you use a long lead-shank, you can use the long end to smack him behind you, and he won't even know where it's coming from. However, the flash noseband usually works well. I'm dealing with the same thing with the colt right now - he is very, very mouthy and toothy. It's amazing, though, how just eliminating that behaviour (by not letting them put their teeth or feet on you), suddenly focuses their brain on their work SO much better

theoldbear · 10-22-2009, 11:35 AM

Went through this with my App filly last year when she was two!

That elbow to the nose without looking whenever she reached out to nip was all that it took. Two or three from me, one or two from my son, and that cured her.

My old Appaloosa would nip me in the ribs every time I picked up a kid!
He had a wicked sense of humor. He knew the one time I wouldn't get after him or bust his chops was when I was putting a kid on his back. So he'd get me every time! Never really hard, just a pinch, just enough to let me know that he could!

Appaloosas are really smarter than the average horse (maybe smarter than the average human) so your colt will figure this out quick.

If you don't want to use your elbow, just hold a curry comb or stiff brush so that when he reaches to nip, he bumps his nose. He'll get the message!

Red Gate Farm · 10-22-2009, 12:14 PM

I'll repeat my answer from your other thread about this same subject;

You're not feeding treats by hand with this horse, are you? That will encourage biting.

All the above ideas are good. I only have this to add.

When saddling up a lesson horse at a barn many years ago, she had the nasty habit of gauging when you weren't looking or paying as much attention, then reaching around and biting your left arm right at the elbow. I made an elbow brace out of duct tape with a lot of thumb tacks poking through, put it on my left elbow and put on a shirt, then went about my business in saddling her up.

She got "bit" back on her muzzle the instant she tried to bite. I never had a problem with that mare again.

gypsygirl3 · 10-23-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Gate Farm

I'll repeat my answer from your other thread about this same subject;

You're not feeding treats by hand with this horse, are you? That will encourage biting.

All the above ideas are good. I only have this to add.

When saddling up a lesson horse at a barn many years ago, she had the nasty habit of gauging when you weren't looking or paying as much attention, then reaching around and biting your left arm right at the elbow. I made an elbow brace out of duct tape with a lot of thumb tacks poking through, put it on my left elbow and put on a shirt, then went about my business in saddling her up.

She got "bit" back on her muzzle the instant she tried to bite. I never had a problem with that mare again.

i have held a pin between my fingers & used it the same way

its not like it causes much pain or anything, its more of the surprise...does work really well though !

Pretty Pony · 10-29-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsygirl3

i have held a pin between my fingers & used it the same way

its not like it causes much pain or anything, its more of the surprise...does work really well though !

I have seen this done before, and it only takes once or twice. You don't need to thrust the pin at them, just let the come in for the bit and get the poke back.

paintedjet · 10-29-2009, 12:00 PM

Im going to agree with oldbear on this one. Basically, you have to make them think its their fault, that they are running into you, not you hitting them. The key is not to make eye contact. It worked on my mare and she's not a bit head shy!

Slim Pikkens · 10-30-2009, 08:24 PM

If you have a 4' stick of any kind, keep it in your right hand with your lead in your left. Face toward his ribcage but so you can keep an eye on his head. Tap his ribs just in front of his hip bone until he moves sideways. Instantly stop tapping, rub the spot with the stick then repeat. If he doesn't move tap a little harder. Keep it rhythmic. I've found this more effective for biters. If he tries to bite give him a hard taps on the ribs. It's harder for him to get his butt out of your way than his head. And he won't care for what you are doing to him. Keep the stick with you for the next dozen times you work with him and he'll get the message if you even move it.

scrapchick · 10-30-2009, 10:44 PM

I had a young horse that liked to bite my boots when I was riding him.
One day he bit my boot, so I leaned up and bit his ear. He figured out "she bites back" and he never did it again.

qtrhorse1993 · 10-30-2009, 11:09 PM

i used to bite them back...the results were quick and effective with no harm to the horse, the tacks also work, i had a pony that took a couple of times, he got me good once so i finally bit his nose...

, he spent a good 30 minutes looking at me like i had 2 heads..lol, but he never tried again.

petesmum · 11-02-2009, 06:09 PM

i dont have a horse yet but am just learning off of all the other posts. but i like the biting back trick, my dog jag bit me a little to hard when he was a pup and nothing worked to get him to stop finally i got so fed up that i bit him hard on the ear. he could not believe i could do that. i had to so it twice and pretty hard, but he got the hint and stopped

DeeGresko · 11-03-2009, 04:18 PM

You have created a game. Correction has to be quick. HARD smack on the nose and then keep doing what you are doing like it never happened. He won't know what hit him and after a few times will associate it with the bite and stop. If he does it while you are facing him, hard hit and it is over with, groom him or give him his treat but I would not recommend hand feeding until the biting stops. YOu can't hold grudges. Move on quickly. You dont want him to be afraid of your hand. I had the same problem with my guy but he was a bit more vicouse. Good Luck

gingerfleguel · 11-03-2009, 08:52 PM

If my horse nibbles or puts her mouth near me...I grab her bottom or top lip and pinch quite firmly....doesnt take them long to figure out

irishmusic · 11-05-2009, 10:35 PM

Agree with GypsyGirl. A safety pin concealed in your hand. Set your horse up and make your hand available for a nip - then give him a little poke. Switch up hands. He will punish himself and pretty soon stop. Also no treats by hand.

Range · 11-06-2009, 06:59 AM

3 seconds to make them think their world is ending.

If the physical reaction isn't working, try something loud! Like a scream paired with a jump in the air. Or an air horn....

"OMG, I BIT HER AND THAT NOISE CAME!! I WILL NEVER BITE HER AGAIN!"

Be sure you go about your business regularly and calmly before and after the event...no matter what tactic you use.

Slim Pikkens · 11-06-2009, 07:33 AM

Keep in mind that a horse rarely learns cause and affect after just one application. It usually takes two, three maybe four times for him to make the connection.

endurofan3 · 11-06-2009, 10:19 AM

Thanks for the tips!

I have an 18 year old gelding who JUST. WILL. NOT. STOP. BITING. Everywhere, all the time. He grabs the halter while I struggle to put it on. Same with the bridle, grabs the cheeks, reins, noseband. Once that's all on, (somehow) he then dips his nose in to grab the neck strap of the martingale, or the reins, again. Even when riding, when he's decided he's packed me around long enough, he dips that nose in and grabs a rein, tries to pull it out of my hand. Fortunately he doesn't gallop off, or bolt, nothing awful at all. Oddly he doesn't bite when I tighten the girth, nor does he do rider's boot grabs. Actually he loves going for rides, trails especially. Very happy and alert, easy gaits, highly responsive to all the aids.

Leading...... catch him in the pasture, and it's nip, bite, nip bite, anything he can get ahold of on me. The shank. My hand. Snap the shank on, and he then reaches down to nip at my legs. I either smack him HARD with a crop, or else the shank's trailing end. That only gives him pause. He just endures the slap, then dips in for another sneaky nip at my legs. He never pulls back, so it's easy to hang onto him and administer punishment, but that never lasts longer than the few seconds it takes him to recover and take another stab at me. It's a game for him, he's not mean about it at all, and if I pre-empt him and carry a stick or crop, he's not as inclined to take a chance. But he's so relentless! It's very difficult to tack and hold a stick at the same time, and anyway, unless I have the stick right there, it's all back to nip and hit and dodge again. He's been like this for years, I love him dearly, and he's worthless for anything but light riding. Old. Lameness issues. Cribs. Hard headed. Not suitable for beginners, and a professional would have no use for him because of the permanant lameness issues, et al.

But he's got a permanant home here. I enjoy riding him, and love his personality. He's tall and big boned and sturdy, pretty and healthy. Loada into anything, hauls great, loves to go on adventures. I just do what I can!

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10-18-2009, 01:49 PM
Appy_527 Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 212	Won't stop trying to bite Okay, I am having trouble with my 2 year old appy geling trying to bite me all the time. It makes it extremely difficult to sccomplish any training when he is constantly grabbing at me with his mouth and shoving his head and neck at me. I try to get after him but he just thinks it's a game and keeps it up. This has been going on for months and months. Some periods worse than others. But it never stops completely. Any advice? __________________ "And God said, "Let there be horses!"

10-18-2009, 01:52 PM
Sonseeahray's_girl Started Join Date: May 2006 Location: On Top of the World! Posts: 2,864	When you say "I try to get after him" what exactly do you mean? What are the consequences of his biting? __________________ Horses don't always stand quietly and wait for you to get smart -Beth

10-18-2009, 07:58 PM
EquineAlberta Kid Safe Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 6,004	Does your gelding have a friend to play with? Does he have enough turn out? How about dental work? Is he teething, in which case does he have things to chew on when left alone? I think you are right that he thinks you are playing...2 year olds play rough, so you would have to be quite brutal to convince him otherwise. Spraying him in the face with a lemon is an interesting idea but he may find that amusing. You may want to consider step one of Clicker training where you teach the horse to mind your space so it isn't mauling you for treats. A simple approach is to not let his biting distract you from what you are doing; perhaps an elbow to the nose WITHOUT looking at the horse, and continue what you are doing. Make the biting less of an event. You also may want to consider shortening the time you spend during each training session. The problem with immitating the "lead mare" is that a young male horse has NO need of a relationship with the lead mare, so the lead mare is telling the horse to "F" off. It is not later trying to bond and train the horse. By acting super agressive like a "lead mare" and then trying to train the horse or bond with it you are sending it very mixed signals. karen __________________ New Hillside Website The Art of Praise

10-22-2009, 11:01 AM
GreyDot Started Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hamilton, OH Posts: 2,433	Besides the fact that he's TWO and pretty much a "teenage punk", putting his teeth on things that don't belong to him (such as people...) is a definitel no-no, for ANY reason. Try not to resort to swatting him on the face, though, as that can, eventually, lead to head-shyness. Also, he'll just nip and lift his head, so you can't reach him. The elbow to the nose trick does work, if the head is at elbow level and you're fast enough. Also, you can take the pro-active approach and just put a flash noseband on him - and keep him busy when you're working with him, even just grooming or whatever. That way, he can try to bump you with his nose, but will have a harder time putting his teeth on you. Then, you can just keep doing what you're doing and the whole "fun" factor is taken away, so you can stay calm and rhythmical with your work. Plus, it's difficult to bite when you're asked to hop over little jumps or otherwise. If he nips when you're leading, make sure you're walking at his shoulder and not at his face. Don't let him drop behind you, as rearing and pawing is also a dominance game, so be careful. If you use a long lead-shank, you can use the long end to smack him behind you, and he won't even know where it's coming from. However, the flash noseband usually works well. I'm dealing with the same thing with the colt right now - he is very, very mouthy and toothy. It's amazing, though, how just eliminating that behaviour (by not letting them put their teeth or feet on you), suddenly focuses their brain on their work SO much better __________________ Dot, March 30, 1983 - August 29, 2009. A kind eye, a brave heart, a gentle soul, a wise spirit. I will always miss you, Sweet Boy.

10-22-2009, 11:35 AM
theoldbear Yearling Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Arcadia, Florida Posts: 771	Went through this with my App filly last year when she was two! That elbow to the nose without looking whenever she reached out to nip was all that it took. Two or three from me, one or two from my son, and that cured her. My old Appaloosa would nip me in the ribs every time I picked up a kid! He had a wicked sense of humor. He knew the one time I wouldn't get after him or bust his chops was when I was putting a kid on his back. So he'd get me every time! Never really hard, just a pinch, just enough to let me know that he could! Appaloosas are really smarter than the average horse (maybe smarter than the average human) so your colt will figure this out quick. If you don't want to use your elbow, just hold a curry comb or stiff brush so that when he reaches to nip, he bumps his nose. He'll get the message!

10-22-2009, 12:14 PM
Red Gate Farm Started Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 2,362	I'll repeat my answer from your other thread about this same subject; You're not feeding treats by hand with this horse, are you? That will encourage biting. All the above ideas are good. I only have this to add. When saddling up a lesson horse at a barn many years ago, she had the nasty habit of gauging when you weren't looking or paying as much attention, then reaching around and biting your left arm right at the elbow. I made an elbow brace out of duct tape with a lot of thumb tacks poking through, put it on my left elbow and put on a shirt, then went about my business in saddling her up. She got "bit" back on her muzzle the instant she tried to bite. I never had a problem with that mare again. __________________ "Humans is sneaky" - Scotty

10-29-2009, 12:00 PM
paintedjet Newborn Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 17	Im going to agree with oldbear on this one. Basically, you have to make them think its their fault, that they are running into you, not you hitting them. The key is not to make eye contact. It worked on my mare and she's not a bit head shy!

10-30-2009, 08:24 PM
Slim Pikkens Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,047	If you have a 4' stick of any kind, keep it in your right hand with your lead in your left. Face toward his ribcage but so you can keep an eye on his head. Tap his ribs just in front of his hip bone until he moves sideways. Instantly stop tapping, rub the spot with the stick then repeat. If he doesn't move tap a little harder. Keep it rhythmic. I've found this more effective for biters. If he tries to bite give him a hard taps on the ribs. It's harder for him to get his butt out of your way than his head. And he won't care for what you are doing to him. Keep the stick with you for the next dozen times you work with him and he'll get the message if you even move it.

10-30-2009, 10:44 PM
scrapchick Kid Safe Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Festus, Missouri Posts: 7,022	I had a young horse that liked to bite my boots when I was riding him. One day he bit my boot, so I leaned up and bit his ear. He figured out "she bites back" and he never did it again. __________________ ....And I will sail my vessel, 'til the river runs dry, like a bird upon the wind , these waters are my sky - I'll never reach my destination if I never try ...So I will sail my vessel ,'til the river runs dry ...

10-30-2009, 11:09 PM
qtrhorse1993 Yearling Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Johnstown, New York Posts: 706	i used to bite them back...the results were quick and effective with no harm to the horse, the tacks also work, i had a pony that took a couple of times, he got me good once so i finally bit his nose..., he spent a good 30 minutes looking at me like i had 2 heads..lol, but he never tried again. __________________ The world meets no one half way, but your horse will meet you all the way.

11-02-2009, 06:09 PM
petesmum Newborn Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada Posts: 33	i dont have a horse yet but am just learning off of all the other posts. but i like the biting back trick, my dog jag bit me a little to hard when he was a pup and nothing worked to get him to stop finally i got so fed up that i bit him hard on the ear. he could not believe i could do that. i had to so it twice and pretty hard, but he got the hint and stopped __________________ it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of fight in the dog

11-03-2009, 04:18 PM
DeeGresko Newborn Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Pipersville, Pa Posts: 3	You have created a game. Correction has to be quick. HARD smack on the nose and then keep doing what you are doing like it never happened. He won't know what hit him and after a few times will associate it with the bite and stop. If he does it while you are facing him, hard hit and it is over with, groom him or give him his treat but I would not recommend hand feeding until the biting stops. YOu can't hold grudges. Move on quickly. You dont want him to be afraid of your hand. I had the same problem with my guy but he was a bit more vicouse. Good Luck

11-03-2009, 08:52 PM
gingerfleguel Kid Safe Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ottawa Posts: 5,660	If my horse nibbles or puts her mouth near me...I grab her bottom or top lip and pinch quite firmly....doesnt take them long to figure out

11-05-2009, 10:35 PM
irishmusic Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 602	Agree with GypsyGirl. A safety pin concealed in your hand. Set your horse up and make your hand available for a nip - then give him a little poke. Switch up hands. He will punish himself and pretty soon stop. Also no treats by hand. __________________ It seems that some creatures have the capacity to fill spaces you never knew were empty. Captain Jean Luc Picard

11-06-2009, 06:59 AM
Range Kid Safe Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back of Beyond Posts: 6,739	3 seconds to make them think their world is ending. If the physical reaction isn't working, try something loud! Like a scream paired with a jump in the air. Or an air horn.... "OMG, I BIT HER AND THAT NOISE CAME!! I WILL NEVER BITE HER AGAIN!" Be sure you go about your business regularly and calmly before and after the event...no matter what tactic you use. __________________ "Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it all... you just might get it all, and then some you don't want." Chris Daughtery

11-06-2009, 07:33 AM
Slim Pikkens Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,047	Keep in mind that a horse rarely learns cause and affect after just one application. It usually takes two, three maybe four times for him to make the connection.

11-06-2009, 10:19 AM
endurofan3 Halter broke Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 74	Interesting, for sure! Thanks for the tips! I have an 18 year old gelding who JUST. WILL. NOT. STOP. BITING. Everywhere, all the time. He grabs the halter while I struggle to put it on. Same with the bridle, grabs the cheeks, reins, noseband. Once that's all on, (somehow) he then dips his nose in to grab the neck strap of the martingale, or the reins, again. Even when riding, when he's decided he's packed me around long enough, he dips that nose in and grabs a rein, tries to pull it out of my hand. Fortunately he doesn't gallop off, or bolt, nothing awful at all. Oddly he doesn't bite when I tighten the girth, nor does he do rider's boot grabs. Actually he loves going for rides, trails especially. Very happy and alert, easy gaits, highly responsive to all the aids. Leading...... catch him in the pasture, and it's nip, bite, nip bite, anything he can get ahold of on me. The shank. My hand. Snap the shank on, and he then reaches down to nip at my legs. I either smack him HARD with a crop, or else the shank's trailing end. That only gives him pause. He just endures the slap, then dips in for another sneaky nip at my legs. He never pulls back, so it's easy to hang onto him and administer punishment, but that never lasts longer than the few seconds it takes him to recover and take another stab at me. It's a game for him, he's not mean about it at all, and if I pre-empt him and carry a stick or crop, he's not as inclined to take a chance. But he's so relentless! It's very difficult to tack and hold a stick at the same time, and anyway, unless I have the stick right there, it's all back to nip and hit and dodge again. He's been like this for years, I love him dearly, and he's worthless for anything but light riding. Old. Lameness issues. Cribs. Hard headed. Not suitable for beginners, and a professional would have no use for him because of the permanant lameness issues, et al. But he's got a permanant home here. I enjoy riding him, and love his personality. He's tall and big boned and sturdy, pretty and healthy. Loada into anything, hauls great, loves to go on adventures. I just do what I can!