Rearing Problems laying down

thekingsgirl07 · 10-12-2009, 06:48 PM

I have a 6 year old QH gelding. He is a great horse but has a few problems.We are not sure why he does it. When i get onto him he doent move he just stands there and when i try to make him move he either rears or just lays down with me on him. I need help. It all started after we took him to Georgia to trail ride and found out he doesnt like water.

**taelesean** · 10-12-2009, 11:23 PM

He's learned that rearing and/or laying down will get him out of work. In short, he's lost respect for you as a leader. From the sound of it, he may have some serious holes in his training.

He needs some remedial training and steady work with firm, consistant handling for a while.

EquineAlberta · 10-12-2009, 11:44 PM

What happened with the water?

His reaction sounds like extreme learned helplessness. He can't face what is going to happen so he shuts down (won't move) when you get after him it escalates to him rearing and collapsing. Often pain related.

Basically a panic attack done in a non-agressive way. Some horses are more prone to it than others.

Not that hard to retrain, but you need to go over what started it, to know how to undo the response and rebuild the trust/work ethic.

karen

ahabarabs · 10-13-2009, 08:39 AM

This is dangerous, spoiled, rank behavior, and needs to be stopped "yesterday" please take your horse to a professional trainer ASAP, and do not work/ride any more until horse has been worked with, please get a competent trainer though, or you may end up with a horse that's so messed up, no one will be able to help.

Slim Pikkens · 10-13-2009, 08:47 AM

There's a fix for the lying down but first I'd like to mention that horse's can't always see the bottom and don't know if they are stepping an abyss. The next time he lays down be out of the saddle and quickly get on his neck behind his ears and sit on him. Now he can't get up. Now in his mind he's vulnerable to attack. Check your watch and keep him there for a good 10 min. He may let out a big sigh which is a good sign - submission. When he feels completely relaxed let him get up. Stand well back so he doesn't step on you as he rises. If someone accompanies you have them lightly pop him on the hip with a riding crop a number of times for the first few minutes. We want to make his life miserable while he's lying down. You are playing his game but changing the rules. He should have a lot more respect for you when he gets up. He was prepared to die and you rescued him.

Danni L · 10-13-2009, 09:00 AM

some one wanted me to work on a mare who had started with behavior like this then escalated. its total disrespect. i worked many hours with this mare, we rulled out any pain issues. one day she stopped while we were riding and refused to move. i was persistant and kept asking her to move forward(not mean in any way, just persistant.). with almost no warning she flipped over backwards. i jumped/was thrown clear. she trashed the saddle and bridle. get a profesionals help. this behavior can quickly become extremely dangerous

thekingsgirl07 · 10-13-2009, 12:42 PM

I ride or attempt to ride him every day. I am a very experienced riderand i have also broke a fair share of horses.But this one is getting me . i wass lounging him this morning and it was like he had never been lounged before. When he does lay down at first he wouldnt lay down all the way until i pushed his head down. and he just laid there. I did notice while working him today hes was a llittle off in the rear.

thekingsgirl07 · 10-13-2009, 01:06 PM

Do You think i should change his bit? I use a medium port or a grazing bit

evelynwolfe · 10-13-2009, 01:57 PM

From what you just told us about the loungeing thing...sounds to me like it was some MAJOR holes in his training. Perhaps the person who broke him never lunged him and so he's compleately mixed up.
As for the bit, i would switch him over to a snaffle and start all over again with ground work, trust issues, and RESPECT as well as breaking him all over again basically.
This is an issue that is dangerous and needs to be stopped no matter the reason. I'm not there so I can't see his reaction when he's going up or laying down. It doesn't sound rank to me though...rank would be trying to hurt you both on the ground and in the saddle, and rank I don't think would just lay down.

thekingsgirl07 · 10-13-2009, 03:24 PM

I can lounge him with out a lounge line just fine . He responds to my body language but the minute i out him onto the loungline he acts like a colt that has never been lounged. I just tryed to ride him an hour ago and i tried a snaffle. I got him to back and move forward about 30 feet then i went to turn him to the right and he just layed down and he was ver gacegul at doing it to . i made him get up after a few minutes and got back on him and he did it again . i cant afford to take him to a trainer right now

ahabarabs · 10-13-2009, 04:29 PM

This issue is not about being in the wrong bit, or needed started over, or fear, or being shut down, he is getting out of work plain and simple, and he is really, really gonna get worse, and worse, if not corrected very soon, you really don't need a trainer to do this, if your willing to properly discipline him it will only take one time, and he will I guar. be "cured" to never do it again ( at least with you ) PM me if you would like instructions, it could be done tonite....promise

RockwoodDawn · 10-13-2009, 05:14 PM

GET A LYME TEST ON HIM. Here in CT we are well aware of the tick borne Lyme disease. It can mimic many other diseases, and it can cause "mental" problems in some horses. It makes many lame, big raised patches on one of mine, and I lost a human friend back in the late 70's to it. When she was autopsyied(sp) they said she had holes in her brain. It may not be what your horse has but if it is, the faster he is treated the less longtime affects.

Slim Pikkens · 10-13-2009, 05:45 PM

Since he's so good at laying down, get a 4 or 5' stick, lungewhip, whatever and push his head down and kneel across his neck. Then whack on his butt, or ribs, not real hard but not tiny taps either. He may jerk his body a bit but keep doing it. You want to make the laying down very unpleasant and keep this up for 10 min. If you don't make it unpleasant he will continue to do this.

GoLightly · 10-13-2009, 05:46 PM

Yes, get him checked health wise. Did he hurt himself? If he's off behind, did he have a bad fall, avoiding the water?
The Lyme is a definite possibility too. Good luck, and be careful

Horse poor · 10-13-2009, 05:50 PM

Have an old cowboy friend who had a mare who would do this. He let her go down once and then he had someone hold her head down after he put a tarp over her. He then whaled on her with a saddle blanket(not pads) for about 5 minutes. It was the last time she ever laid down.

Be prepared though for the effort to get away from the punishment. They can reach pretty far with a hind leg.

thekingsgirl07 · 10-13-2009, 10:42 PM

Thank you iamgoing to try a few things this weekend. I have had an emergency come up and had to go out of town but i am for sure going to try a few of these tips . I have Lyme Disease. I got it over the summer at a girl scout camp im haveing a vet check him tomorrow

EquineAlberta · 10-13-2009, 11:43 PM

You said he was sore behind on the lunge line? Did you look into that further? If you press along his spine does he show any flinching?

The horse is trying to tell you something. My solution would involve listening to the horse, fixing the issue it is having, and moving on. This stems from a belief that horse's actually like their job when their job is fair.

You could also tell the horse to suck it up because life could be much worse, which is apparently a common tactic. You do risk the horse finding another, more dangerous mode of communication though.

really it depends on what feels right to you, and what you are comfortable with. Both will likely work so pick the path you want to travel.

Karen

thekingsgirl07 · 10-14-2009, 12:39 AM

Some how he had cut his heel on something its notserious but was a little sore, he was also sore on his hip a little I'm guessing from laying down . I rubed him down with some Bigeloil and he was fine when i rode him. We also made some progress today we weent around the round pen onece before we started rearing. So i had to get off and go get a tiedown and i got back on. He just stood there for about a half hour. then we laid down again so i lounged him for about an hour with sand bags tied to the saddle.

AM243 · 10-14-2009, 10:09 PM

I do not agree with hitting the horse or sitting on the horse until you have come to the root of the problem or you run the riskof making things so much worse. Get professional help. If you can't afford it right now then maybe you should wait until you can. Laying on the horse's head will not make him trust you but it will make him fear you and it sounds like that's already the problem.

TheUpNorthCowgirl · 10-14-2009, 11:06 PM

Vet check first. Laying down, rearing, and you said he was off in the rear when you lunged him, and now he has a sore hip? Any and all of these things could denote a serious neurological problem. After you have him thoroughly vetted a good chiropractic work up wouldn't hurt either.

If and only if his vet check came back alright, then I'd try going back to square one and do some groundwork and get a decent trainer to work on him. Rearing and laying down are dangerous habits for a horse to form.

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10-12-2009, 06:48 PM
thekingsgirl07 Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 53	Rearing Problems laying down I have a 6 year old QH gelding. He is a great horse but has a few problems.We are not sure why he does it. When i get onto him he doent move he just stands there and when i try to make him move he either rears or just lays down with me on him. I need help. It all started after we took him to Georgia to trail ride and found out he doesnt like water.

10-12-2009, 11:23 PM
taelesean Administrator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,319	He's learned that rearing and/or laying down will get him out of work. In short, he's lost respect for you as a leader. From the sound of it, he may have some serious holes in his training. He needs some remedial training and steady work with firm, consistant handling for a while. __________________

10-12-2009, 11:44 PM
EquineAlberta Kid Safe Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 6,004	What happened with the water? His reaction sounds like extreme learned helplessness. He can't face what is going to happen so he shuts down (won't move) when you get after him it escalates to him rearing and collapsing. Often pain related. Basically a panic attack done in a non-agressive way. Some horses are more prone to it than others. Not that hard to retrain, but you need to go over what started it, to know how to undo the response and rebuild the trust/work ethic. karen __________________ New Hillside Website The Art of Praise

10-13-2009, 08:39 AM
ahabarabs Weanling Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: indianapolis, indiana Posts: 487	This is dangerous, spoiled, rank behavior, and needs to be stopped "yesterday" please take your horse to a professional trainer ASAP, and do not work/ride any more until horse has been worked with, please get a competent trainer though, or you may end up with a horse that's so messed up, no one will be able to help.

10-13-2009, 08:47 AM
Slim Pikkens Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,047	There's a fix for the lying down but first I'd like to mention that horse's can't always see the bottom and don't know if they are stepping an abyss. The next time he lays down be out of the saddle and quickly get on his neck behind his ears and sit on him. Now he can't get up. Now in his mind he's vulnerable to attack. Check your watch and keep him there for a good 10 min. He may let out a big sigh which is a good sign - submission. When he feels completely relaxed let him get up. Stand well back so he doesn't step on you as he rises. If someone accompanies you have them lightly pop him on the hip with a riding crop a number of times for the first few minutes. We want to make his life miserable while he's lying down. You are playing his game but changing the rules. He should have a lot more respect for you when he gets up. He was prepared to die and you rescued him.

10-13-2009, 09:00 AM
Danni L Yearling Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Red Deer,Alberta Posts: 627	some one wanted me to work on a mare who had started with behavior like this then escalated. its total disrespect. i worked many hours with this mare, we rulled out any pain issues. one day she stopped while we were riding and refused to move. i was persistant and kept asking her to move forward(not mean in any way, just persistant.). with almost no warning she flipped over backwards. i jumped/was thrown clear. she trashed the saddle and bridle. get a profesionals help. this behavior can quickly become extremely dangerous __________________ Rain- gorgeous grey 6 year old mustang, just getting started under saddle Guido-adorable yearling Appaloosa Sport Horse

10-13-2009, 12:42 PM
thekingsgirl07 Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 53	I ride or attempt to ride him every day. I am a very experienced riderand i have also broke a fair share of horses.But this one is getting me . i wass lounging him this morning and it was like he had never been lounged before. When he does lay down at first he wouldnt lay down all the way until i pushed his head down. and he just laid there. I did notice while working him today hes was a llittle off in the rear.

10-13-2009, 01:06 PM
thekingsgirl07 Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 53	Do You think i should change his bit? I use a medium port or a grazing bit

10-13-2009, 01:57 PM
evelynwolfe Halter broke Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Southern IN Posts: 184	From what you just told us about the loungeing thing...sounds to me like it was some MAJOR holes in his training. Perhaps the person who broke him never lunged him and so he's compleately mixed up. As for the bit, i would switch him over to a snaffle and start all over again with ground work, trust issues, and RESPECT as well as breaking him all over again basically. This is an issue that is dangerous and needs to be stopped no matter the reason. I'm not there so I can't see his reaction when he's going up or laying down. It doesn't sound rank to me though...rank would be trying to hurt you both on the ground and in the saddle, and rank I don't think would just lay down. __________________ Sell the cow, buy the sheep, but never be without the horse. ~ Irish Proverb

10-13-2009, 03:24 PM
thekingsgirl07 Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 53	I can lounge him with out a lounge line just fine . He responds to my body language but the minute i out him onto the loungline he acts like a colt that has never been lounged. I just tryed to ride him an hour ago and i tried a snaffle. I got him to back and move forward about 30 feet then i went to turn him to the right and he just layed down and he was ver gacegul at doing it to . i made him get up after a few minutes and got back on him and he did it again . i cant afford to take him to a trainer right now

10-13-2009, 04:29 PM
ahabarabs Weanling Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: indianapolis, indiana Posts: 487	This issue is not about being in the wrong bit, or needed started over, or fear, or being shut down, he is getting out of work plain and simple, and he is really, really gonna get worse, and worse, if not corrected very soon, you really don't need a trainer to do this, if your willing to properly discipline him it will only take one time, and he will I guar. be "cured" to never do it again ( at least with you ) PM me if you would like instructions, it could be done tonite....promise

10-13-2009, 05:14 PM
RockwoodDawn Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ledyard CT Posts: 296	GET A LYME TEST ON HIM. Here in CT we are well aware of the tick borne Lyme disease. It can mimic many other diseases, and it can cause "mental" problems in some horses. It makes many lame, big raised patches on one of mine, and I lost a human friend back in the late 70's to it. When she was autopsyied(sp) they said she had holes in her brain. It may not be what your horse has but if it is, the faster he is treated the less longtime affects.

10-13-2009, 05:45 PM
Slim Pikkens Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,047	Since he's so good at laying down, get a 4 or 5' stick, lungewhip, whatever and push his head down and kneel across his neck. Then whack on his butt, or ribs, not real hard but not tiny taps either. He may jerk his body a bit but keep doing it. You want to make the laying down very unpleasant and keep this up for 10 min. If you don't make it unpleasant he will continue to do this.

10-13-2009, 05:46 PM
GoLightly Newborn Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 46	Yes, get him checked health wise. Did he hurt himself? If he's off behind, did he have a bad fall, avoiding the water? The Lyme is a definite possibility too. Good luck, and be careful __________________ Hope is the thing with feathers, that perches in the soul, and sings the tune without the words, and never stops at all.. Emily Dickinson. When I was born, I was so surprised, I didn't speak for a year and a half. Gracie Allan.

10-13-2009, 05:50 PM
Horse poor Started Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,776	Have an old cowboy friend who had a mare who would do this. He let her go down once and then he had someone hold her head down after he put a tarp over her. He then whaled on her with a saddle blanket(not pads) for about 5 minutes. It was the last time she ever laid down. Be prepared though for the effort to get away from the punishment. They can reach pretty far with a hind leg. __________________ Stop telling God how big your storm is. Instead tell the storm how big your God is.

10-13-2009, 10:42 PM
thekingsgirl07 Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 53	Thank you iamgoing to try a few things this weekend. I have had an emergency come up and had to go out of town but i am for sure going to try a few of these tips . I have Lyme Disease. I got it over the summer at a girl scout camp im haveing a vet check him tomorrow

10-13-2009, 11:43 PM
EquineAlberta Kid Safe Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 6,004	You said he was sore behind on the lunge line? Did you look into that further? If you press along his spine does he show any flinching? The horse is trying to tell you something. My solution would involve listening to the horse, fixing the issue it is having, and moving on. This stems from a belief that horse's actually like their job when their job is fair. You could also tell the horse to suck it up because life could be much worse, which is apparently a common tactic. You do risk the horse finding another, more dangerous mode of communication though. really it depends on what feels right to you, and what you are comfortable with. Both will likely work so pick the path you want to travel. Karen __________________ New Hillside Website The Art of Praise

10-14-2009, 12:39 AM
thekingsgirl07 Halter broke Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 53	Some how he had cut his heel on something its notserious but was a little sore, he was also sore on his hip a little I'm guessing from laying down . I rubed him down with some Bigeloil and he was fine when i rode him. We also made some progress today we weent around the round pen onece before we started rearing. So i had to get off and go get a tiedown and i got back on. He just stood there for about a half hour. then we laid down again so i lounged him for about an hour with sand bags tied to the saddle.

10-14-2009, 10:09 PM
AM243 Newborn Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 42	I do not agree with hitting the horse or sitting on the horse until you have come to the root of the problem or you run the riskof making things so much worse. Get professional help. If you can't afford it right now then maybe you should wait until you can. Laying on the horse's head will not make him trust you but it will make him fear you and it sounds like that's already the problem.

10-14-2009, 11:06 PM
TheUpNorthCowgirl Long Yearling Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Upper Michigan Posts: 1,354	Vet check first. Laying down, rearing, and you said he was off in the rear when you lunged him, and now he has a sore hip? Any and all of these things could denote a serious neurological problem. After you have him thoroughly vetted a good chiropractic work up wouldn't hurt either. If and only if his vet check came back alright, then I'd try going back to square one and do some groundwork and get a decent trainer to work on him. Rearing and laying down are dangerous habits for a horse to form. __________________ The horse has so docile a nature, that he would rather do right than wrong, if he can only be taught to distinguish one from the other."