The horse who doesn't turn...sigh...

Cait · 09-25-2009, 07:14 PM

I've decided to come out of my shell and just ask whatever I need help with or comes to my mind. I'm pretty sure I have a post in just about every category

. But I gotta learn somehow right?

Alright, anyways...I have been riding Lena every weekend and trying to work on her turning because well, she doesn't. When she gets out away from the herd, she gets so wound up about where everyone else is, all she can think about is going back. Once I get her going, we are ok. But as soon as I even kind of turn back towards home, all hope is lost...

She seriously doesn't turn (Her flexing is amazing however). She will turn her head completely around, and keep walking in whatever direction she wants.

Once she is up near the barn, I work with her and she does pretty good. Not perfect by any means, but 100% than what she does out on the trail!

Now I have had many suggestions thrown at me. She doesn't trust me, I need to use a curb bit (I use a full cheek snaffle), I need to use my legs more, I need to pull until she turns, and the list seems to go on and on and on.

I have worked on trust with join up, but she is to concerned about where everyone else is to even pay attention. I was told to hit the ground when she isn't paying attention. Well I must have to hit the ground non-stop then. I don't feel comfortable putting her in a harsher bit yet because she doesn't even respect the snaffle, she has no idea what my legs are doing, and I don't want to make her mouth hard by pulling until she turns.

So...I'm ready for my suggestions, tips, etc. Throw them at me!

Sonseeahray's_girl · 09-25-2009, 07:26 PM

Does she move off of pressure on the ground? Can you move her front end and hindquarters with just the slightest pressure from your fingertips? Does she sidepass from the ground?

Horselady44 · 09-25-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonseeahray's_girl

Does she move off of pressure on the ground? Can you move her front end and hindquarters with just the slightest pressure from your fingertips? Does she sidepass from the ground?

I agree...you need to work with her on doing forequarter turns and hindquarter turns...it will loosen her up and she will start working off of leg pressure instead of desensatizing her mouth(which is what you will do if you keep pulling on the bit until she turns like someone suggested you...Do NOT do that!

)

NoniMe · 09-25-2009, 10:46 PM

I'm going to be one of those "use your legs more..."

Tango, my mighty steed (also known as "Beanhead"), does this yoga-at-speed thing which can be really scary. 'Course, it's because I am only using my hands...when I use only my hands, I can turn Tango's head...but sometimes, he won't agree with me, and the rest of his body doesn't follow. He has been known to do the whole look-back-at-me-and-run-straight-ahead. That's kinda scary, you know? LOL.

What I was taught, and what works (when I can remember to do it) with Tango, is that I do use the rein - lifted slightly over the other one and slightly back/pressured, while at the same time, sliding my inside leg back behind the girth and "pushing" Tango over. If I were turning left, for example, I'd raise that rein just slightly, slide my left leg back just slightly, and press with my whole foot to make his hips move to the right...

I don't always remember to do it...but when I do, it works beautifully. Tango also has a lean to the inside when he canters...and I use this technique but on the outside leg/rein, while putting pressure on his inside shoulder with my knee, and he'll straighten up and canter in a line at that point. It's kinda like I have to counter his inside shoulder so he won't "lean" into the circle.

I was taught, and do my very best to follow, the aid-line. First comes the rider's butt, shoulders and head. Then the knees. Then the feet. And only last come the hands...and even then, only slight maneuvers on the reins. Now, I don't always manage to get it right...but when I do, it's so wonderful, especially at the canter.

Use your legs more, but properly...and see if that makes a difference.

Best-
Noni

Applejack · 09-25-2009, 10:55 PM

Instead of steering and pulling her face, focus on steering her shoulders in the direction you are heading.

Arrow · 09-26-2009, 03:09 AM

Your mare has two problems. First of all, she lacks some fundamentals in her training. That is your most pressing problem. Second, she's a bit buddy/barn sour. I'm only addressing the fundamental problem here, because this will take a while to fix before you can work on the barn sour thing.

First of all, I'd quit trail riding her for right now. She needs ring work in large quantities at the moment before she's ready to take her show on the road. I would take her and start her from scratch.

Outfit your mare in a simple snaffle, and whatever saddle is comfortable to you and her. If you don't have a ring, pick a relatively flat spot, preferably outside your pasture, but if you only have room in your pasture, well that works too. A round pen works, but I'd use a lunge line when lunging her, because you can physically pull her attention back to you if needed, and gives you a bit more control.

Start working her on the ground, and get her walk/trot/canter/whoa on the lunge line working perfectly. By that, I mean she walks, trots, canters, and whoas at your request without you having to use your whip or pull her into a downward transition. Speed control is cool too, and it's a great way to get her listening to you and actually responding. These voice commands will be your friends when you start trail riding again. I guarantee it!!!!! Depending on the horse, it can take weeks to get this working right, but it will be worthwhile. If she's under 4, you don't want to lunge more than 20 minutes at a time. If she's over 4, you can work her upwards of 30 minutes. Break it into small steps and always remember to finish on a positive note.

Once you have lunging working well, get back on her in your arena/pen/flat spot, and start working her at a walk only under saddle. Take your time with this! The slower you go with her training, the faster you get your horse trained. At a walk, you want her doing nice 20-30 meter circles in both directions while bending her body and not fighting you. Do lots of circles, and serpentines. Teach her to turn on the haunches and turn on the forehand. Basically, make sure you can contol all of her body parts easily at a walk, with no fuss and no argument. Again, take your time, and keep it at a walk. This can take weeks also, but there is no point in hurrying it, because if you don't get the foundation here, you will just have to go back and fix stuff later. Once she's really good at this walking, start asking for short trots, and start working on the same thing at the trot. Be consistant, don't get mad, and be persistant.

After however long, you will have a horse that works at a walk and trot doing nice bending circles and serpentines and who can move off your leg without a fight. If it's done right, she'll understand what your leg is for and move off it automatically. If you don't know how to coordinate your hands, legs, and body weight, take some dressage lessons (even if you ride only western), they are really a great investment.

NOW! Start varying where you ask your horse to work. Start her in your pen one day. When she's working quietly and happily, take her outside the pen and work her right outside the gate. Chances are you'll blow her mind, and spend a fair amount of time just refocusing her and working her at a walk while she figures out she can work in other places too. She'll figure it out, just remain patient. Start taking her to different spots on your property and asking her to do ringwork. Do circles around trees, serpentines in your pasture, turns on the forehand in your barnyard, etc, etc.

If she's being awesome at the walk and trot, then start adding short canters, but I wouldn't do a lot of canter work right now. Before you take your mare back out on the trail, she needs to have awesome arena manners, because that is your control. If she's used to listening to you in the arena, you have a much better chance of getting her to listen when she's wigged out on the trail.

NOW you can start working on the barn sour thing, which will take way too much explaining in this already too long post.

I'm adding my caveat here, if you feel that you don't know how to train these things, or if your mare gets dangerous (rearing, bucking, kicking, etc), get a professional trainer!!!! They can help you bunches.

Slim Pikkens · 09-26-2009, 01:30 PM

I'd like to add that don't feel you need the services of a trainer on a daily or weekly basis. I often help a rider with an issue and then am not called back for several months. I like to leave them understanding the why's and wherefore's of what we're doing which better enables the rider to put into practise what he/she has learned.

little_S · 09-26-2009, 06:46 PM

I wonder if putting her into a half-breed side pull would help her turning. That way she'd still have the snaffle but also the help of the noseband to turn her.

My mare flexes and turns nicely as long as she's not worried or scared about something. Then at times it's like pulling an elephant.

I didn't read all the other posts but it does sound as if there is some buddy sourness going on. I'd be sure to work her twice as hard on the way back.

Maybe more turns, circles, trotting, etc.

I know one thing that helped me and my mare with turns was to set up road cones in the ring / field. That helped me know where to turn her and I think helped her see the turns.

Maybe make a bit of an obstable course to guide her though

lbequ4002 · 09-26-2009, 08:21 PM

I pretty much agree with Arrow. You need to earn her respect on the ground first, then in the tack and then you can take her into situations where she might be more difficult. You ride her she doesn't get to take you for a ride. If you allow this to continue she could quickly and easily become dangerous. It sounds like she's either not confident riding alone or doesn't want to work and would prefer to be back with her buddies.
I too would start with groundwork and then ring work. When you feel like she's taking you somewhere under saddle I would carry a crop and smack her shoulder whichever one she is popping since you said her neck is bent but she's walking the other direction. Learn to turn her entire body. When you ask her to turn keep her neck relatively straight with only a slight bend in the direction you'd like to turn. Put weight in your inside stirrup. Look in the direction you want to go and find a focal point to ride to. Turn your shoulders think to also turn your belly button this will help you lay your outside thigh against her and will turn your hips making it obvious where you are asking her to go and she should follow your body. Be very specific whenever you ask her to turn. Ride to focal points always and be precise.
Then when you do find you're ready to hit the trail bring a buddy along to help her relax. You might have to ride with others for a long time before she's comfortable going alone.

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09-25-2009, 07:14 PM
Cait Weanling Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 257	The horse who doesn't turn...sigh... I've decided to come out of my shell and just ask whatever I need help with or comes to my mind. I'm pretty sure I have a post in just about every category . But I gotta learn somehow right? Alright, anyways...I have been riding Lena every weekend and trying to work on her turning because well, she doesn't. When she gets out away from the herd, she gets so wound up about where everyone else is, all she can think about is going back. Once I get her going, we are ok. But as soon as I even kind of turn back towards home, all hope is lost... She seriously doesn't turn (Her flexing is amazing however). She will turn her head completely around, and keep walking in whatever direction she wants. Once she is up near the barn, I work with her and she does pretty good. Not perfect by any means, but 100% than what she does out on the trail! Now I have had many suggestions thrown at me. She doesn't trust me, I need to use a curb bit (I use a full cheek snaffle), I need to use my legs more, I need to pull until she turns, and the list seems to go on and on and on. I have worked on trust with join up, but she is to concerned about where everyone else is to even pay attention. I was told to hit the ground when she isn't paying attention. Well I must have to hit the ground non-stop then. I don't feel comfortable putting her in a harsher bit yet because she doesn't even respect the snaffle, she has no idea what my legs are doing, and I don't want to make her mouth hard by pulling until she turns. So...I'm ready for my suggestions, tips, etc. Throw them at me!

09-25-2009, 07:26 PM
Sonseeahray's_girl Greenbroke Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: On Top of the World! Posts: 3,092	Does she move off of pressure on the ground? Can you move her front end and hindquarters with just the slightest pressure from your fingertips? Does she sidepass from the ground? __________________ Horses don't always stand quietly and wait for you to get smart -Beth

09-25-2009, 10:46 PM
NoniMe Seasoned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 4,777	I'm going to be one of those "use your legs more..." Tango, my mighty steed (also known as "Beanhead"), does this yoga-at-speed thing which can be really scary. 'Course, it's because I am only using my hands...when I use only my hands, I can turn Tango's head...but sometimes, he won't agree with me, and the rest of his body doesn't follow. He has been known to do the whole look-back-at-me-and-run-straight-ahead. That's kinda scary, you know? LOL. What I was taught, and what works (when I can remember to do it) with Tango, is that I do use the rein - lifted slightly over the other one and slightly back/pressured, while at the same time, sliding my inside leg back behind the girth and "pushing" Tango over. If I were turning left, for example, I'd raise that rein just slightly, slide my left leg back just slightly, and press with my whole foot to make his hips move to the right... I don't always remember to do it...but when I do, it works beautifully. Tango also has a lean to the inside when he canters...and I use this technique but on the outside leg/rein, while putting pressure on his inside shoulder with my knee, and he'll straighten up and canter in a line at that point. It's kinda like I have to counter his inside shoulder so he won't "lean" into the circle. I was taught, and do my very best to follow, the aid-line. First comes the rider's butt, shoulders and head. Then the knees. Then the feet. And only last come the hands...and even then, only slight maneuvers on the reins. Now, I don't always manage to get it right...but when I do, it's so wonderful, especially at the canter. Use your legs more, but properly...and see if that makes a difference. Best- Noni __________________ Apparently, I have a warped sense of humor. "Who knew?"

09-25-2009, 10:55 PM
Applejack Coming two Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,762	Instead of steering and pulling her face, focus on steering her shoulders in the direction you are heading. __________________ Be nice.

09-26-2009, 03:09 AM
Arrow Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 121	Your mare has two problems. First of all, she lacks some fundamentals in her training. That is your most pressing problem. Second, she's a bit buddy/barn sour. I'm only addressing the fundamental problem here, because this will take a while to fix before you can work on the barn sour thing. First of all, I'd quit trail riding her for right now. She needs ring work in large quantities at the moment before she's ready to take her show on the road. I would take her and start her from scratch. Outfit your mare in a simple snaffle, and whatever saddle is comfortable to you and her. If you don't have a ring, pick a relatively flat spot, preferably outside your pasture, but if you only have room in your pasture, well that works too. A round pen works, but I'd use a lunge line when lunging her, because you can physically pull her attention back to you if needed, and gives you a bit more control. Start working her on the ground, and get her walk/trot/canter/whoa on the lunge line working perfectly. By that, I mean she walks, trots, canters, and whoas at your request without you having to use your whip or pull her into a downward transition. Speed control is cool too, and it's a great way to get her listening to you and actually responding. These voice commands will be your friends when you start trail riding again. I guarantee it!!!!! Depending on the horse, it can take weeks to get this working right, but it will be worthwhile. If she's under 4, you don't want to lunge more than 20 minutes at a time. If she's over 4, you can work her upwards of 30 minutes. Break it into small steps and always remember to finish on a positive note. Once you have lunging working well, get back on her in your arena/pen/flat spot, and start working her at a walk only under saddle. Take your time with this! The slower you go with her training, the faster you get your horse trained. At a walk, you want her doing nice 20-30 meter circles in both directions while bending her body and not fighting you. Do lots of circles, and serpentines. Teach her to turn on the haunches and turn on the forehand. Basically, make sure you can contol all of her body parts easily at a walk, with no fuss and no argument. Again, take your time, and keep it at a walk. This can take weeks also, but there is no point in hurrying it, because if you don't get the foundation here, you will just have to go back and fix stuff later. Once she's really good at this walking, start asking for short trots, and start working on the same thing at the trot. Be consistant, don't get mad, and be persistant. After however long, you will have a horse that works at a walk and trot doing nice bending circles and serpentines and who can move off your leg without a fight. If it's done right, she'll understand what your leg is for and move off it automatically. If you don't know how to coordinate your hands, legs, and body weight, take some dressage lessons (even if you ride only western), they are really a great investment. NOW! Start varying where you ask your horse to work. Start her in your pen one day. When she's working quietly and happily, take her outside the pen and work her right outside the gate. Chances are you'll blow her mind, and spend a fair amount of time just refocusing her and working her at a walk while she figures out she can work in other places too. She'll figure it out, just remain patient. Start taking her to different spots on your property and asking her to do ringwork. Do circles around trees, serpentines in your pasture, turns on the forehand in your barnyard, etc, etc. If she's being awesome at the walk and trot, then start adding short canters, but I wouldn't do a lot of canter work right now. Before you take your mare back out on the trail, she needs to have awesome arena manners, because that is your control. If she's used to listening to you in the arena, you have a much better chance of getting her to listen when she's wigged out on the trail. NOW you can start working on the barn sour thing, which will take way too much explaining in this already too long post. I'm adding my caveat here, if you feel that you don't know how to train these things, or if your mare gets dangerous (rearing, bucking, kicking, etc), get a professional trainer!!!! They can help you bunches.

09-26-2009, 01:30 PM
Slim Pikkens Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,383	I'd like to add that don't feel you need the services of a trainer on a daily or weekly basis. I often help a rider with an issue and then am not called back for several months. I like to leave them understanding the why's and wherefore's of what we're doing which better enables the rider to put into practise what he/she has learned.

09-26-2009, 06:46 PM
little_S Halter broke Join Date: May 2008 Location: Chambersburg PA Posts: 166	I wonder if putting her into a half-breed side pull would help her turning. That way she'd still have the snaffle but also the help of the noseband to turn her. My mare flexes and turns nicely as long as she's not worried or scared about something. Then at times it's like pulling an elephant. I didn't read all the other posts but it does sound as if there is some buddy sourness going on. I'd be sure to work her twice as hard on the way back. Maybe more turns, circles, trotting, etc. I know one thing that helped me and my mare with turns was to set up road cones in the ring / field. That helped me know where to turn her and I think helped her see the turns. Maybe make a bit of an obstable course to guide her though

09-26-2009, 08:21 PM
lbequ4002 Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Central AL Posts: 1,005	I pretty much agree with Arrow. You need to earn her respect on the ground first, then in the tack and then you can take her into situations where she might be more difficult. You ride her she doesn't get to take you for a ride. If you allow this to continue she could quickly and easily become dangerous. It sounds like she's either not confident riding alone or doesn't want to work and would prefer to be back with her buddies. I too would start with groundwork and then ring work. When you feel like she's taking you somewhere under saddle I would carry a crop and smack her shoulder whichever one she is popping since you said her neck is bent but she's walking the other direction. Learn to turn her entire body. When you ask her to turn keep her neck relatively straight with only a slight bend in the direction you'd like to turn. Put weight in your inside stirrup. Look in the direction you want to go and find a focal point to ride to. Turn your shoulders think to also turn your belly button this will help you lay your outside thigh against her and will turn your hips making it obvious where you are asking her to go and she should follow your body. Be very specific whenever you ask her to turn. Ride to focal points always and be precise. Then when you do find you're ready to hit the trail bring a buddy along to help her relax. You might have to ride with others for a long time before she's comfortable going alone.