horse wont go froward side passes instead

happyhorsehavenfarms · 07-04-2009, 12:12 AM

Any help with my mare that wants to side passes instead of going forward.
I can go forward for a few strides but then she wants to side pass. Any suggestions and it only gets worse at the trot. She pushing through the bit and I have just changed her bit still having the problem. She backs off of the bit better now with the new bit. I think this is all avoidance...I am starting to get frustrated with her

seerfarm · 07-04-2009, 06:25 AM

Could you provide a bit more information?

How old is your mare, is she properly fitted for riding, and does she have any known injuries and or problems health or hoof wise?

Does she move forward and respond to all ques, at the lunge or when roundpenned in and out of tack?

Does she try and avoid forward movement without a bit, and bareback?

Have her teeth been checked?

Has her back been checked and proper saddle fit checked?

jdougert · 07-04-2009, 07:15 AM

Before anyone can give you input, I'd say you need to provide more info. What discipline are you riding, what type of bit, etc? What is your skill level and experience? Could it be something you are doing? Having said all that, when a horse refuses to go forward and wants to go sideways, yes, that is some kind of 'avoidance' of the aids but it is hard to determine what she is avoiding without more info. It could just be that she has learned that you let her get away with it and so it is working for her. Sometimes just a good pop of the rear with a crop will correct the problem. For this to work, you must be consistent and timing must be quick and decisive. You must also make sure you are 'correct' in your seat, legs and hands. Make sure you are not interfering with her mouth in anyway.

happyhorsehavenfarms · 07-04-2009, 09:53 AM

I am riding english in a dressage saddle riding in an eggbut snaffle. She is a green horse I have had for a few months now. I have been riding english for about 2 years. I believe she is avoiding She listen to leg cues as you ask her to go forward and she will just pick a spot and start side passing then she will give up after about 7 strides and then go forward. She has problem giving to the bit and I am trying to teach her. I have never had a horse that tried this before. She has no injuries and teeth have been floated and vet check from head to toe. Is there something I can do to block her side passing she drops that shoulder and then she starts side passing. I want to start this horse hunter jumper obviously I cant if we cant go forward consistenly....Any suggestion help would be helpful. I am paying extra attention to make sure my hands are quiet when she is going forward.

Strawberrygirl · 07-04-2009, 10:20 AM

Is it only when you're riding or does it happen with leading, lunging, etc.? She might have a lack of confidence, assumings its nothing physical. A lot of green broke horses have trouble going forward on their own. I suggest the 'Driving Game' from Pat Parelli, to give her confidence moving out on her own. I also suggest ground driving her!

jdougert · 07-04-2009, 10:32 AM

hhhf, here is what to do next time she tries that. You need to impress on her that you are in charge and she must move forward of your leg. Use a light leg aid to ask for forward, when she tries to side pass, use your thigh to block the shoulder and then use your leg aid again but with a big 'pop' on the rear end with your dressage whip! Timing is critical here so she gets the message. Careful when you use your thigh to block the shoulder that you do not pinch with the knee. If she is trying to go to the left, block her with your left thigh and immediately ask her to go forward. This will take three times and then she will get the message that when you put your leg on she needs to jump forward and march! It is also important during this correction to not rely on your reins to try to pull her around, just keep a light feel of her mouth and for that moment, don't worry where her head is as long as her feet are moving forward. This is simply a way she has devised to evade forward movement in hopes of not having to work so hard. You must correct it immediately. Make sure to praise her each time she gets it right but don't stop - keep her thinking forward.

EquineAlberta · 07-04-2009, 10:36 AM

So the question is why is she avoiding? i am going to guess she can go forward fine loose in the paddock, it is a problem with her when she is ridden.

I had a horse here that did that; a Hyonate resolved it. The horse was joint sore, and the resulting tension in his muscles resulted in him questionning the request to go forward, and wanting to push onto his forehand by going sideways. He was only slightly positive on flexions, but I guess for this horse that was all it took for him to be unwilling to travel correctly.

Other reasons the horse may be questionning the forward/straight aid and going sideways: you are crooked in the saddle, you are blocking forward motion with your hands and/or seat (pinching with knees or thighs for example), ill fitting tack, or a step was missed in the training.

When you say your hands are quiet, what does that mean? Quiet as in passive? A green english horse needs contact to help her balance. Hands need to follow, take and hold as needed.

Rather than send her forward with the whip when she starts to get crooked, I would stop her, check your balance/aids, and then ask again. I would also make sure to half halt her well before each corner, and position her hip slightly in to prepare for turns. This will help her learn to use her inside hind to turn, rather than fall on her shoulder.

I would worry that sending her off with the whip will teach her to 1) fall on her shoulder harder and 2) Rush off when she gets confused. Neither of these habits will help you when you start to jump.

Slow it down and make it as easy for her as possible and she will figure it out.

Karen

happyhorsehavenfarms · 07-05-2009, 11:44 AM

jdougart,

When I am going to correct her with my thigh am I just putting my leg forward almost touching her shoulder with my foot. She will go off of my leg in the round pen and the areana it is just in certain areas. I think she gets lazy and does not want to work.I also could use some info on a different bit we are using a egg butt snaffle she is not giving to it. I need something to get her attention. She definetly has holes in her training who ever trained her. I am trying to work these out on our own. However she is doing things I have never experienced. I have just moved recently in a new area and have not found a trainer yet. It seems hard to find a english trainer here. I really want this mare to be my hunter jumper and help much appreciated.

jdougert · 07-05-2009, 11:58 AM

hhhf's, no you do not need to move your leg position at all, just simply use your thigh against the saddle in the same way you would use your lower leg for a leg yield. So, leave the lower leg off and apply your thigh, don't use your foot at all, then also be sure to give the horse somewhere to go - by making sure the opposite leg is not gripping anywhere so the horse can move it's shoulder in the direction you want it to go. Remember that the lower leg at the girth controls the hind end and you can control the shoulder with your thigh as a blocking aid. This should all be very subtle and quickly done. It's not something you hold for more than a few seconds by then the horse should already be moving away over and going forward within a step or two. Trust me this works well when done correctly. It may feel awkward at first and takes a strong, correct seat but well worth developing this technique as it has many applications in dressage training. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

EquineAlberta · 07-05-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Remember that the lower leg at the girth controls the hind

In dressage the leg BEHIND the girth controls the hindquarters. At the girth controls speed and bend through the ribs.

Some horses will consider pressure from the thigh to be a blocking motion as it blocks the swing of the shoulder. This will usually make the horse slow down.

If there are holes in the training, go back to step one and start over so you fill in those gaps. She may be reluctant as she doesn't understand. Using a stronger bit, or stronger aids won't help her understand. if you do not go back and fill in those gaps, the holes in her training are going to keep coming back to haunt the both of you.

Karen

cowboy4life · 07-05-2009, 09:56 PM

It seem your missing your forward ques or she is adverting to a different direction to keep from going forward, my sugestion is to go back to ground work in the round pen for a couple of weeks, trots for 2.30 min. and canter for 2.30 min. then stop, reverse and work the same way in new direction, if the horse is not in great condtion start at 15 to 20 min work outs.
If you dont want to do ground work my next sugestion is when she starts to side pass simply turn in a circle a few times and go back to your forward ques if she goes back to side passing go in the oppisite dirrection in circles, contuinue this untill she takes the forward ques, the key is to have the mind set that your there all day, the advantage to it is she's not giving to foward ques at the moment so your working on turning and suppling up in the bit, she will get tired of this and start going forward after a while and you were able work on other areas in the mean time.

Miichelle · 07-06-2009, 12:23 AM

Is she actually stopping and not going forward at all or is she running through your aids and going sideways at an angle but still moving somewhat forward? I hope that made sence... Also, if she is the horse in your avitar, she APPEARS to be behind the vertical in that picture (hard to tell for sure it's very small on my computer). If that's the case that's a whole different set of issues you need to address that will help fix your problem. If you can't take hold of her without her rolling up you really don't have much control, a harsher bit isn't going to help if she's behind the bit.

jdougert · 07-06-2009, 07:10 AM

was going to reply but changed my mind

Slim Pikkens · 07-06-2009, 08:39 AM

Something simpler to try and eaier to understand is to simply let her side pass but keep her going. She'll only go so far and want to quit as moving laterally is harder work than forward. When you can feel that she wants to quit that's when you ask her to move forward again. Sometimes we need to play their game, except we get to change the rules. She won't catch on the first time so you must repeat it at least three times. Her muscles should be getting tired by now and she may be quite willing to walk forward. When she does and goes ahead by a dozen strides or so unsaddle her and put her away as that is a huge reward. If you can, work on only this for 3 or 4 days in a row. Hopefully your sessions will get shorter and shorter but it's important you put her away even if it's only a 10 min. session. She will probably test you a few days later again as horses do that but a reminder usually ends it.

happyhorsehavenfarms · 07-09-2009, 09:45 PM

Jdougert

It worked it really worked

Rode Chablis today and well it worked she did not know what to think when first tried it she turned around and looked at me .

Thanks so much

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
help anyone, horse wont leave barn area	wendysfit	Health & Nutrition	1	03-21-2008 04:47 PM
Horse wont load into trailer	MarMar	Training	7	11-26-2007 08:44 AM
UPDATE.. on HELP HORSE Wont move	24cindy24	Training	51	09-14-2005 12:00 PM

07-04-2009, 12:12 AM
happyhorsehavenfarms Weanling Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 236	horse wont go froward side passes instead Any help with my mare that wants to side passes instead of going forward. I can go forward for a few strides but then she wants to side pass. Any suggestions and it only gets worse at the trot. She pushing through the bit and I have just changed her bit still having the problem. She backs off of the bit better now with the new bit. I think this is all avoidance...I am starting to get frustrated with her __________________ Let a horse whisper in your ear and breathe on your heart and you will never forget it.

07-04-2009, 06:25 AM
seerfarm Bombproof Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Out with the Herd! Posts: 9,633	Could you provide a bit more information? How old is your mare, is she properly fitted for riding, and does she have any known injuries and or problems health or hoof wise? Does she move forward and respond to all ques, at the lunge or when roundpenned in and out of tack? Does she try and avoid forward movement without a bit, and bareback? Have her teeth been checked? Has her back been checked and proper saddle fit checked? __________________ "One must be a god to be able to tell successes from failures without making a mistake".

07-04-2009, 07:15 AM
jdougert Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: central FL Posts: 327	need to know what equip you are using Before anyone can give you input, I'd say you need to provide more info. What discipline are you riding, what type of bit, etc? What is your skill level and experience? Could it be something you are doing? Having said all that, when a horse refuses to go forward and wants to go sideways, yes, that is some kind of 'avoidance' of the aids but it is hard to determine what she is avoiding without more info. It could just be that she has learned that you let her get away with it and so it is working for her. Sometimes just a good pop of the rear with a crop will correct the problem. For this to work, you must be consistent and timing must be quick and decisive. You must also make sure you are 'correct' in your seat, legs and hands. Make sure you are not interfering with her mouth in anyway.

07-04-2009, 09:53 AM
happyhorsehavenfarms Weanling Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 236	I am riding english in a dressage saddle riding in an eggbut snaffle. She is a green horse I have had for a few months now. I have been riding english for about 2 years. I believe she is avoiding She listen to leg cues as you ask her to go forward and she will just pick a spot and start side passing then she will give up after about 7 strides and then go forward. She has problem giving to the bit and I am trying to teach her. I have never had a horse that tried this before. She has no injuries and teeth have been floated and vet check from head to toe. Is there something I can do to block her side passing she drops that shoulder and then she starts side passing. I want to start this horse hunter jumper obviously I cant if we cant go forward consistenly....Any suggestion help would be helpful. I am paying extra attention to make sure my hands are quiet when she is going forward. __________________ Let a horse whisper in your ear and breathe on your heart and you will never forget it.

07-04-2009, 10:20 AM
Strawberrygirl Weanling Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 247	Is it only when you're riding or does it happen with leading, lunging, etc.? She might have a lack of confidence, assumings its nothing physical. A lot of green broke horses have trouble going forward on their own. I suggest the 'Driving Game' from Pat Parelli, to give her confidence moving out on her own. I also suggest ground driving her!

07-04-2009, 10:32 AM
jdougert Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: central FL Posts: 327	hhhf, here is what to do next time she tries that. You need to impress on her that you are in charge and she must move forward of your leg. Use a light leg aid to ask for forward, when she tries to side pass, use your thigh to block the shoulder and then use your leg aid again but with a big 'pop' on the rear end with your dressage whip! Timing is critical here so she gets the message. Careful when you use your thigh to block the shoulder that you do not pinch with the knee. If she is trying to go to the left, block her with your left thigh and immediately ask her to go forward. This will take three times and then she will get the message that when you put your leg on she needs to jump forward and march! It is also important during this correction to not rely on your reins to try to pull her around, just keep a light feel of her mouth and for that moment, don't worry where her head is as long as her feet are moving forward. This is simply a way she has devised to evade forward movement in hopes of not having to work so hard. You must correct it immediately. Make sure to praise her each time she gets it right but don't stop - keep her thinking forward.

07-04-2009, 10:36 AM
EquineAlberta Kid Safe Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,925	So the question is why is she avoiding? i am going to guess she can go forward fine loose in the paddock, it is a problem with her when she is ridden. I had a horse here that did that; a Hyonate resolved it. The horse was joint sore, and the resulting tension in his muscles resulted in him questionning the request to go forward, and wanting to push onto his forehand by going sideways. He was only slightly positive on flexions, but I guess for this horse that was all it took for him to be unwilling to travel correctly. Other reasons the horse may be questionning the forward/straight aid and going sideways: you are crooked in the saddle, you are blocking forward motion with your hands and/or seat (pinching with knees or thighs for example), ill fitting tack, or a step was missed in the training. When you say your hands are quiet, what does that mean? Quiet as in passive? A green english horse needs contact to help her balance. Hands need to follow, take and hold as needed. Rather than send her forward with the whip when she starts to get crooked, I would stop her, check your balance/aids, and then ask again. I would also make sure to half halt her well before each corner, and position her hip slightly in to prepare for turns. This will help her learn to use her inside hind to turn, rather than fall on her shoulder. I would worry that sending her off with the whip will teach her to 1) fall on her shoulder harder and 2) Rush off when she gets confused. Neither of these habits will help you when you start to jump. Slow it down and make it as easy for her as possible and she will figure it out. Karen __________________ New Hillside Website The Art of Praise

07-05-2009, 11:44 AM
happyhorsehavenfarms Weanling Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 236	jdougart, When I am going to correct her with my thigh am I just putting my leg forward almost touching her shoulder with my foot. She will go off of my leg in the round pen and the areana it is just in certain areas. I think she gets lazy and does not want to work.I also could use some info on a different bit we are using a egg butt snaffle she is not giving to it. I need something to get her attention. She definetly has holes in her training who ever trained her. I am trying to work these out on our own. However she is doing things I have never experienced. I have just moved recently in a new area and have not found a trainer yet. It seems hard to find a english trainer here. I really want this mare to be my hunter jumper and help much appreciated. __________________ Let a horse whisper in your ear and breathe on your heart and you will never forget it.

07-05-2009, 11:58 AM
jdougert Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: central FL Posts: 327	hhhf's, no you do not need to move your leg position at all, just simply use your thigh against the saddle in the same way you would use your lower leg for a leg yield. So, leave the lower leg off and apply your thigh, don't use your foot at all, then also be sure to give the horse somewhere to go - by making sure the opposite leg is not gripping anywhere so the horse can move it's shoulder in the direction you want it to go. Remember that the lower leg at the girth controls the hind end and you can control the shoulder with your thigh as a blocking aid. This should all be very subtle and quickly done. It's not something you hold for more than a few seconds by then the horse should already be moving away over and going forward within a step or two. Trust me this works well when done correctly. It may feel awkward at first and takes a strong, correct seat but well worth developing this technique as it has many applications in dressage training. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

07-05-2009, 09:56 PM
cowboy4life Newborn Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 10	It seem your missing your forward ques or she is adverting to a different direction to keep from going forward, my sugestion is to go back to ground work in the round pen for a couple of weeks, trots for 2.30 min. and canter for 2.30 min. then stop, reverse and work the same way in new direction, if the horse is not in great condtion start at 15 to 20 min work outs. If you dont want to do ground work my next sugestion is when she starts to side pass simply turn in a circle a few times and go back to your forward ques if she goes back to side passing go in the oppisite dirrection in circles, contuinue this untill she takes the forward ques, the key is to have the mind set that your there all day, the advantage to it is she's not giving to foward ques at the moment so your working on turning and suppling up in the bit, she will get tired of this and start going forward after a while and you were able work on other areas in the mean time.

07-06-2009, 12:23 AM
Miichelle Started Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central Idaho Posts: 2,460	Is she actually stopping and not going forward at all or is she running through your aids and going sideways at an angle but still moving somewhat forward? I hope that made sence... Also, if she is the horse in your avitar, she APPEARS to be behind the vertical in that picture (hard to tell for sure it's very small on my computer). If that's the case that's a whole different set of issues you need to address that will help fix your problem. If you can't take hold of her without her rolling up you really don't have much control, a harsher bit isn't going to help if she's behind the bit.

07-06-2009, 07:10 AM
jdougert Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: central FL Posts: 327	was going to reply but changed my mind Last edited by jdougert : 07-06-2009 at 07:32 AM. Reason: retract my response

07-06-2009, 08:39 AM
Slim Pikkens Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,001	Something simpler to try and eaier to understand is to simply let her side pass but keep her going. She'll only go so far and want to quit as moving laterally is harder work than forward. When you can feel that she wants to quit that's when you ask her to move forward again. Sometimes we need to play their game, except we get to change the rules. She won't catch on the first time so you must repeat it at least three times. Her muscles should be getting tired by now and she may be quite willing to walk forward. When she does and goes ahead by a dozen strides or so unsaddle her and put her away as that is a huge reward. If you can, work on only this for 3 or 4 days in a row. Hopefully your sessions will get shorter and shorter but it's important you put her away even if it's only a 10 min. session. She will probably test you a few days later again as horses do that but a reminder usually ends it.

07-09-2009, 09:45 PM
happyhorsehavenfarms Weanling Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 236	Jdougert It worked it really worked Rode Chablis today and well it worked she did not know what to think when first tried it she turned around and looked at me . Thanks so much __________________ Let a horse whisper in your ear and breathe on your heart and you will never forget it.