Bit myths, misconceptions and half truths.

EquineAlberta · 08-30-2008, 08:58 PM

I have decided to start working on an article to help clarify and dispell some of the less than accurate info out there on bits. I have a few topics for this, but thought some of you might have some additional points I should consider.

Here is what i have so far:

1) The bit is only as harsh as the rider
2) Two joints are better than one
3) The longer the shank, the harsher the bit
4) A “sharper” bit is useful for lightening a horse’s front end.
5) The thicker the bit, the kinder
6) Bit ads are a good way to figure out what a bit does, and what type of horse it is good for
7) My horse has a hard mouth so I need a stronger bit
8) A port has to be at least 2 inches high to touch the horse’s palate
9) Rollers help a horse relax about the bit, and don’t affect its action.
10) A Port is kind as it acts as a tongue relief
11) A good bit will work on any horse
12) A good horse will work in any bit
13) A loose rein is kinder than a steady contact
14) A full cheek and a boucher aren’t very different than other snaffle types, just a different cheek pieces.
15) Flipping the tongue over the bit is a sign of resistance/avoidance.
16) Bitless is kinder
17) Bits offer more control than bitless
18) A good rider has a steady hand and so can ride in any bit
19) A snaffle should always be placed to have 2 wrinkles (or 1 or none depending on who you talk too).

Remember I am looking for myths as well as over generalizations. Anything I missed?

Karen

Bandit · 08-30-2008, 09:09 PM

Bits offer more control than bitless - This isn't true, its all in the training.

Slim Pikkens · 08-30-2008, 09:09 PM

8) Is the port 2" high to touch the palate or to allow tongue room. And what about the horse with a shallow palate?
13) a loose rein is kinder than a steady contact-that depends on the bit. If a rider using a snaffle has good steady hands the horse is able to adjust his contact and will lighten and will feel like a feather.

EquineAlberta · 08-30-2008, 09:17 PM

Slim, I have the info on all my topics, but you did give me one more point...that a rider's hand can be steady (science shows that there is motion in the bit at each gait, even if the rider thinks their hand is steady)

Thanks Bandit! I am going to edit to add that too.

Karen

reiningfan · 08-30-2008, 11:52 PM

Rollers on a signal bit DO affect it's action, but don't on a snaffle.
Not just shank lenght, but it's degree of "bend" must be taken into consideration when figuring out when a bit is "harsh". A 6" swept back shank is way less "harsh" than one which has straight shanks.
The shank to purchase ratio also affects the "harshness" of a bit.
I'm not a fan of the use of the word harsh when talking about bits.

EquineAlberta · 08-31-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

I'm not a fan of the use of the word harsh when talking about bits

Why is that? Harsh is defined as "causing a disagreeable or painful sensory reaction" (one of its many definitions). All bits cause pain and/or discomfort to some degree.

Karen

reiningfan · 08-31-2008, 08:43 PM

See, I agree with that. All bits can cause a degree of discomfort/pain. But when saying that such & such bit is harsher than another, it generally comes down to who is using it. Put a spade bit in the hands of a beginner and it would be one heck of a harsh bit. But the same bit in the right hands may never have any pressure put to it.

TLCowgirl3597 · 09-02-2008, 04:51 PM

IMO Using Bigger bits to get a horse better trained is like wearing platforms to get taller. For a moment you can be fooled to think it worked. Then you take the shoes (bit) off and your still a short s.o.b.(untrained horse) If your horse has a problem the bit isn't it....take some horsemanship lessons, yes it's more work, no it's not a quick fix. But it is a permanent fix. As far as the myths go. Agreed Loose rien or none at all is ideal. As far as everything else harsh or not....it's all in the rider & the horse. An O-ring or a halter can be as harsh as anything out there in certain hands... Obviously "bigger" bits have more bite...but they can be as gentle as anything is certain hands.

HighHorse · 09-02-2008, 06:44 PM

Could you clarify #15?

I would personally add the list:
'A fixed ring works the same as a loose ring, it just won't pinch the corners of his mouth.'

reiningfan · 09-02-2008, 07:33 PM

Ahh, but HighHorse, they are not the same. An eggbutt or D-ring snaffle works slightly differently than a loose ring snaffle due to the postion the headstall & reins are put in, as well as the rings will move on a loose ring. Also, not all loose rings will pinch.

HighHorse · 09-02-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reiningfan

Ahh, but HighHorse, they are not the same. An eggbutt or D-ring snaffle works slightly differently than a loose ring snaffle due to the postion the headstall & reins are put in, as well as the rings will move on a loose ring. Also, not all loose rings will pinch.

Exactly my point. I believe she is working on common misconceptions.

reiningfan · 09-02-2008, 08:15 PM

Ooops, I misunderstood. Sorry HighHorse.

HighHorse · 09-02-2008, 08:18 PM

No problem.

Its probably better that you did, because I have now had a chance to explain it.

ToveroMom · 09-02-2008, 10:29 PM

How about snaffles are kinder than curbs-topic.
Black iron,copper,cypridium or Stainless steel mouthpiece-what is the difference?

**beth55051** · 09-02-2008, 10:44 PM

what about the whole hackamores are more humane than bits debate?

Common misconception that it's more "humane" to trail ride your horse in a hackamore cause it's easier on them?

Not talking bosals, sidepulls or bitless, those are a whole nuther subject.

But the average nutcracker mechanical hackamore that is so great at teaching a horse to rear or toss their head.

fishing_trex · 09-06-2008, 08:03 PM

On number 3, the longer the shank, the harsher the bit... that is probably true if one were considering the same mouthpiece with varying lengths of shanks.

One could also add "Tom Thumb bits are very mild". A common misconception is that because the shanks are short the bit is mild. I agree that bad hands make bad bits, but I see far too many people using Tom Thumbs (or longer shanked broken bits) because they think they are very mild bits.

Regarding one bit not really being harsher than another, it just depends on who is using it: if you put different bits in a horse's mouth and use the same pressure, you will get different amounts of pressure transferred to the horse's mouth. I think that is what most people refer to as "being harsher". Perhaps it is more appropriate to say the potential for being harsher.

minilover101 · 09-08-2008, 09:33 PM

Bitless is not always kinder and not all bits are "harsher" than others because of the way they are made. It is all in the way of how the person handles the horse and how it reacts to it.

EquineAlberta · 09-08-2008, 11:35 PM

#15: clarifying...people think that their horse is being naughty by flipping their tongue over the bit, but when a study was done to determine the effects of certain bits to decide if they should be "legal" for dressage it was found that 75% of the horses they studied oved their tongue over and under the bit during the ride, and that the rider didn't know it. SOme horses just hold their tongue back in their mouth, so it is neither under or over the bit.

FishingTrex...this is something people don't think enough about (which is why this is going to be part of my winter writing project), but a shorter shank needs LESS motion from the hand to put max leverage on the bit, whereas a longer shank may be capable of more pressure, it requires more motion to inflict the pressure. so longer = stronger, shorter = sharper. The severity/action is also dependent on the amount of shank above the mouthpiece...not just the length below it.

Tovero Mom, I don't know enough about the different metals and how they react/affect the horse, so although that is a worthy topic, I don't think I could write it. Maybe if I can find info on it though. Curb vs snaffle is in interesting though...I will have to think on that one.

reiningfan...a well balanced spade bit will put pressure on the palate as soon as the horse lifts its head. It doesn't even need a rider to put pressure on the horse;s mouth, so not the best example. There are MANY bits that don't need to be pulled on to cause pain/discomfort to a horse, and that is part of my point. I have a few experiments people can do to try this for themselves (on themselves).

Thanks for the ideas/feedback guys!

Karen

BabyMay · 09-09-2008, 04:57 AM

I like this thread. I have already learned a few things. Keep it going guys.

David · 09-11-2008, 09:47 AM

How about this for a myth:

There is a difference in signal bits and leverage bits...

Also, I have to say that when a spade bit is used properly there is never any pressure. By used properly I mean the horse is taught to carry the bit before the spade is used and to respond to seat and leg cues and the rider is taught to ride with seat and leg cues.

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08-30-2008, 08:58 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,475	Bit myths, misconceptions and half truths. I have decided to start working on an article to help clarify and dispell some of the less than accurate info out there on bits. I have a few topics for this, but thought some of you might have some additional points I should consider. Here is what i have so far: 1) The bit is only as harsh as the rider 2) Two joints are better than one 3) The longer the shank, the harsher the bit 4) A “sharper” bit is useful for lightening a horse’s front end. 5) The thicker the bit, the kinder 6) Bit ads are a good way to figure out what a bit does, and what type of horse it is good for 7) My horse has a hard mouth so I need a stronger bit 8) A port has to be at least 2 inches high to touch the horse’s palate 9) Rollers help a horse relax about the bit, and don’t affect its action. 10) A Port is kind as it acts as a tongue relief 11) A good bit will work on any horse 12) A good horse will work in any bit 13) A loose rein is kinder than a steady contact 14) A full cheek and a boucher aren’t very different than other snaffle types, just a different cheek pieces. 15) Flipping the tongue over the bit is a sign of resistance/avoidance. 16) Bitless is kinder 17) Bits offer more control than bitless 18) A good rider has a steady hand and so can ride in any bit 19) A snaffle should always be placed to have 2 wrinkles (or 1 or none depending on who you talk too). Remember I am looking for myths as well as over generalizations. Anything I missed? Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard? Last edited by EquineAlberta : 08-30-2008 at 09:24 PM. Reason: (added 17, 18, 19)

08-30-2008, 09:09 PM
Bandit Coming two Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 1,790	Bits offer more control than bitless - This isn't true, its all in the training. __________________

08-30-2008, 09:09 PM
Slim Pikkens Started Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,948	8) Is the port 2" high to touch the palate or to allow tongue room. And what about the horse with a shallow palate? 13) a loose rein is kinder than a steady contact-that depends on the bit. If a rider using a snaffle has good steady hands the horse is able to adjust his contact and will lighten and will feel like a feather.

08-30-2008, 09:17 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,475	Slim, I have the info on all my topics, but you did give me one more point...that a rider's hand can be steady (science shows that there is motion in the bit at each gait, even if the rider thinks their hand is steady) Thanks Bandit! I am going to edit to add that too. Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard?

08-30-2008, 11:52 PM
reiningfan Yearling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Manitoba, Canada Posts: 516	Rollers on a signal bit DO affect it's action, but don't on a snaffle. Not just shank lenght, but it's degree of "bend" must be taken into consideration when figuring out when a bit is "harsh". A 6" swept back shank is way less "harsh" than one which has straight shanks. The shank to purchase ratio also affects the "harshness" of a bit. I'm not a fan of the use of the word harsh when talking about bits.

08-31-2008, 08:43 PM
reiningfan Yearling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Manitoba, Canada Posts: 516	See, I agree with that. All bits can cause a degree of discomfort/pain. But when saying that such & such bit is harsher than another, it generally comes down to who is using it. Put a spade bit in the hands of a beginner and it would be one heck of a harsh bit. But the same bit in the right hands may never have any pressure put to it.

09-02-2008, 04:51 PM
TLCowgirl3597 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pahrump,NV Posts: 255	IMO Using Bigger bits to get a horse better trained is like wearing platforms to get taller. For a moment you can be fooled to think it worked. Then you take the shoes (bit) off and your still a short s.o.b.(untrained horse) If your horse has a problem the bit isn't it....take some horsemanship lessons, yes it's more work, no it's not a quick fix. But it is a permanent fix. As far as the myths go. Agreed Loose rien or none at all is ideal. As far as everything else harsh or not....it's all in the rider & the horse. An O-ring or a halter can be as harsh as anything out there in certain hands... Obviously "bigger" bits have more bite...but they can be as gentle as anything is certain hands. __________________ Live everyday* as if it's your last, one of these days it just might be....*

09-02-2008, 06:44 PM
HighHorse Started Join Date: May 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 2,908	Could you clarify #15? I would personally add the list: 'A fixed ring works the same as a loose ring, it just won't pinch the corners of his mouth.' __________________ I played with a clouded leopard

09-02-2008, 07:33 PM
reiningfan Yearling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Manitoba, Canada Posts: 516	Ahh, but HighHorse, they are not the same. An eggbutt or D-ring snaffle works slightly differently than a loose ring snaffle due to the postion the headstall & reins are put in, as well as the rings will move on a loose ring. Also, not all loose rings will pinch.

09-02-2008, 08:15 PM
reiningfan Yearling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Manitoba, Canada Posts: 516	Ooops, I misunderstood. Sorry HighHorse.

09-02-2008, 08:18 PM
HighHorse Started Join Date: May 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 2,908	No problem. Its probably better that you did, because I have now had a chance to explain it. __________________ I played with a clouded leopard

09-02-2008, 10:29 PM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 15,300	How about snaffles are kinder than curbs-topic. Black iron,copper,cypridium or Stainless steel mouthpiece-what is the difference? __________________ "In America,anyone can be President. That is one of the chances you take" Adlai Stevenson

09-02-2008, 10:44 PM
beth55051 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: East Central Minnesota Posts: 4,736	what about the whole hackamores are more humane than bits debate? Common misconception that it's more "humane" to trail ride your horse in a hackamore cause it's easier on them? Not talking bosals, sidepulls or bitless, those are a whole nuther subject. But the average nutcracker mechanical hackamore that is so great at teaching a horse to rear or toss their head. __________________ Do not mind anything that anyone tells you about anyone else. Judge everyone and everything for yourself.

09-06-2008, 08:03 PM
fishing_trex Long Yearling Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,436	On number 3, the longer the shank, the harsher the bit... that is probably true if one were considering the same mouthpiece with varying lengths of shanks. One could also add "Tom Thumb bits are very mild". A common misconception is that because the shanks are short the bit is mild. I agree that bad hands make bad bits, but I see far too many people using Tom Thumbs (or longer shanked broken bits) because they think they are very mild bits. Regarding one bit not really being harsher than another, it just depends on who is using it: if you put different bits in a horse's mouth and use the same pressure, you will get different amounts of pressure transferred to the horse's mouth. I think that is what most people refer to as "being harsher". Perhaps it is more appropriate to say the potential for being harsher. __________________ -- There are two ways to slide easily through life -- to believe everything or to doubt everything. Both ways will save you from thinking.

09-08-2008, 09:33 PM
minilover101 Weanling Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 426	Bitless is not always kinder and not all bits are "harsher" than others because of the way they are made. It is all in the way of how the person handles the horse and how it reacts to it. __________________ Happy Thanksgiving... ...from all of my animal family!

09-08-2008, 11:35 PM
EquineAlberta Seasoned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,475	#15: clarifying...people think that their horse is being naughty by flipping their tongue over the bit, but when a study was done to determine the effects of certain bits to decide if they should be "legal" for dressage it was found that 75% of the horses they studied oved their tongue over and under the bit during the ride, and that the rider didn't know it. SOme horses just hold their tongue back in their mouth, so it is neither under or over the bit. FishingTrex...this is something people don't think enough about (which is why this is going to be part of my winter writing project), but a shorter shank needs LESS motion from the hand to put max leverage on the bit, whereas a longer shank may be capable of more pressure, it requires more motion to inflict the pressure. so longer = stronger, shorter = sharper. The severity/action is also dependent on the amount of shank above the mouthpiece...not just the length below it. Tovero Mom, I don't know enough about the different metals and how they react/affect the horse, so although that is a worthy topic, I don't think I could write it. Maybe if I can find info on it though. Curb vs snaffle is in interesting though...I will have to think on that one. reiningfan...a well balanced spade bit will put pressure on the palate as soon as the horse lifts its head. It doesn't even need a rider to put pressure on the horse;s mouth, so not the best example. There are MANY bits that don't need to be pulled on to cause pain/discomfort to a horse, and that is part of my point. I have a few experiments people can do to try this for themselves (on themselves). Thanks for the ideas/feedback guys! Karen __________________ Hillside Stable, Ardrossan, AB Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is it really that hard?

09-09-2008, 04:57 AM
BabyMay Coming two Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,894	I like this thread. I have already learned a few things. Keep it going guys. __________________ Animals don't need a reason to love.

09-11-2008, 09:47 AM
David Long Yearling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,066	How about this for a myth: There is a difference in signal bits and leverage bits... Also, I have to say that when a spade bit is used properly there is never any pressure. By used properly I mean the horse is taught to carry the bit before the spade is used and to respond to seat and leg cues and the rider is taught to ride with seat and leg cues. __________________ "If you see your stirrups slap together above the horn, you're probably bucked off". Dave Stamey.