Tongue over bit

[SheZAAM!]

I'm hoping you have some more ideas. Little Horse got her tongue over the bit again on Saturday. I was using my curb bit with the chin strap done up like you showed me. I went to a cutting clinic. The clinic started with us riding over their 40 hilly acres, then the 65 acre easement next door, looking for 3 cows that got separated from the herd. After about 45 min. of some fun trotting/cantering around, LH decided she wanted her tongue over the bit. I jumped off, fixed it and re-inserted it, then we didn't have any problems the rest of the day. She did keep playing with it and occasionally grinding her teeth. I attributed the grinding to her frustration when she wasn't running after every cow. She's done it before, but only there and that too was a time we were playing with cows.

She hasn't flipped her tongue over the snaffle but on Sunday she was playing with it constantly.

Below are the 2 bits I've used. The curb is the one she gets her tongue over. I just got her teeth power floated in March and her wolf teeth removed.

Any ideas?

[SheZAAM!]

Anyone?

[texagal7]

It was suggested to me to get a bit with a roller on it to keep their mouth occupied, it I guess it kinda like a toy for them. It worked on my mare.

[EquineAlberta]

Grinding teeth is usually a sign of pain or tension.

Not sure about the tongue thing as it doesn't happen very often, so I am wondering what else is going on when it happens. Are you pulling o the reins more, is her head up?

Do you use a noseband on her? That may help keep her from openning her mouth enough to pop her tongue over the bit. as it happens so rarely I wonder if it is a mistake that she makes and not something she is doing on purpose.

Karen

[GreyDot]

Agreeing with EA, the tongue-flinging is often a sign of something else. I'd check for pain in the back, especially. Also, check for your bit position, to make sure it's not hitting the teeth. Contrary to what many tack manufacturers would have people believe, cranking a horse's mouth shut really doesn't cure the problem - a flash may be temporarily used to 'still' a horse's mouth, so that he figures out that we don't run around with our mouths wide open, but it needs to be done up comfortably, never tight. It's much like putting your hand on a child's shoulder to keep him from fidgeting. You wouldn't physically restrain the kid - just remind him that this is where the guidelines are, and that he should stay within them. Same with 'crank' nosebands. They rarely fix the problem, but hurt enough, when done up as tightly as the word 'crank' implies, to make the horse think about something else instead of fussing with its tongue. It's more of a distraction than a cure. So, I'd steer you away from restraining the mouth, but would encourage you to (a) investigate the horse's comfort (pain in the teeth, pain in the back etc.), (b) investigate your own riding technique and (c) investigate the tack (could have outgrown the saddle, it might be pinching etc.)

I've suggested the NeueSchule Intermediere Training bit several times on HT - and will continue to recommend it to anyone with a tongue-fussy horse. It's a solid-mouth, egg-butt snaffle that is anatomically contoured to a horse's tongue and palate. Use that for a few sessions, and you'll be able to identify where the problem is coming from right away. It's not a 'refined control' bit but is a temporary measure, and is an absolutely wonderful way to make a horse comfortable in the mouth immediately - short of taking the bit away altogether. When Dot is not in a double bridle, he is ridden in the Intermediere on his snaffle bridle. It's the gentlest thing out there, period. I've yet to find a horse that doesn't give a big sigh and relax when you give them this bit. Here's a picture:

[SheZAAM!]

Grey Dot,

Do you know of any US online companies that sell that?

Thanks!

[GreyDot]

It IS sometimes (but rarely) possible to find these bits on eBay, from a vendor called "worldwidebitsandtack" (the guy's name is Simon), but he does not always have them, and lately has been very difficult to contact - so I hesitate to recommend him. I think he had some on recently - but I'm honestly not sure of what he has right now. Still, even HE sells out of the UK.

Here is the only American outlet I know of for NS bits:
http://www.hastilowusa.com/shop/inde...category&id=19
but they do NOT carry the Intermediere.

Personally, I absolutely love the Intermediere (8025) for young horses, as a first bit, or for spoiled mouths. Here's the link for that bit on the Neue Schule web site (it's at the very bottom of the page):
http://www.neueschulebits.com/acatal..._Snaffles.html

Unfortunately, the only other company that makes that particular style of bit (8025) is Herm Sprenger - and they're SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive. That's if you can find one, even. This is why I prefer to deal with NeueSchule - they're cheaper and a better alloy, and much more user-friendly as a company. You are buying directly from them, not from a middle-man. Plus, if you need help, you can even talk to the actual designer! I have recommended them to a slew of people, and everyone who has bought their bits loves them. Here's their link, in case you're interested:
http://www.neueschulebits.com/acatalog/Horse_Bits.html

Do be sure to download their bit measurement template, which will tell you exactly what size bit to buy. Double-jointed snaffles and curbs are measured differently from single-jointed and solid snaffles, and need to be 5 mm (1/4") smaller - and this applies to every manufacturer, not just them. Here's the link for that:
http://www.neueschulebits.com/acatal...t_Measure.html