twisted snaffle

[PrettyFancyStar]

So my mare's time with the trainer is coming to an end.
I have a few questions first, the trainer is in canada right now for a horse show and iv been curious the last few days about the bit he has been useing.

I know its a twisted snaffle, but i never thought to much about it till i was at a show and was using my argintine(sp) bit. she fought it and would NOT listen, she would run and pull from me and not slow down, toss her head ect. Bystanders where talking to me about it and asked what bit the trainer uses on her and i explained it. the response was " ohhh a twisted snaffle, yea you can use those in these horse shows"

now when we get back to the barn and shes in a twisted snaffle, its like a dream ride. she puts her head into a head set, slows down with the lightest touch of the reins, ect.

now i read up on the bit and it said that it should only be used by experienced hands (which the trainer is very experienced and i noticed almost all of his bits are twisted snaffles or O-ring twisted. hes a reiner)

I was going to ask him, but i would like others opinions as well.. should i go out and buy a twisted snaffle for her bridle at home? or should i use a milder bit? i dont want her to fight me and be back at square one, but i dont want to use a harsh bit on her and not know what im doing.

suggestions

[XtendedTrot]

I would say to use the bit he used on her. Trust me, if it was hurting her and you weren't using it properly she would let you know. I used a D ring snaffle with a slow twist for the longest time on my horse. Let me ask...when he was training her did you have any lessons in between his schooling? Did you use the bit he was using? If so, I would say stick to it because it works well with her.

[barnmom]

I think it depends on the size of the twist, I agree that a small twist should only be used by experienced hands as they can be very harsh. That's what Luigi was always shown in but Nicole got him a fat, slow twist and has been getting good results with it. You just have to know that it doesn't take much to get a response from your horse because it hurts them.

[PrettyFancyStar]

Is a very small twist

[barnmom]

The smaller the twist the more severe it is.

[Iwasbornonahorse]

This is just my opinion, but if a person has to use a bit like a small twisted snaffle then they aren't training the horse to do anything except fear pain and therefore submit out of fear.

[CowhorseGal]

I agree with Iwasbornonahorse. The horse is working out of fear of pain. It dosen't sound like she has been taught to yeild to bit pressure at all. She has been forced.

[reiningfan]

I disagree here. A twisted snaffle CAN be a harsh bit. So can a fat D-ring in the wrong hands. Many trainers like a twisted wire snaffle because they can achieve a light response without as much pressure. For example, if you need 5 pounds of pressure to get a horse to give in a plain snaffle, you may only need 1 pound of pressure in a twisted wire. It is a great bit to use when a horse is getting heavy as it gives them a wake up call.
Now, I don't reccommend using one all the time. I would use a plain snaffle on a regular basis. But talk to your trainer and ask why he uses a twisted wire on your horse. Don't get in his face about it, but you should know if the horse has had training issues that he felt required that particular bit. I would definately talk to your trainer about this, after all we have never seen your horse and have no true idea of it's level of training, or the issues it may have. Your trainer does. Do you like the job he's done on your horse so far? Do you respect his opinions? If the answers are yes, talk to him and get him to tell you what kind of bit to get. He'll be back from the show right away, I would assume.

[Iwasbornonahorse]

Originally Posted by reiningfan

I disagree here. A twisted snaffle CAN be a harsh bit. So can a fat D-ring in the wrong hands. Many trainers like a twisted wire snaffle because they can achieve a light response without as much pressure. For example, if you need 5 pounds of pressure to get a horse to give in a plain snaffle, you may only need 1 pound of pressure in a twisted wire. It is a great bit to use when a horse is getting heavy as it gives them a wake up call.
Now, I don't reccommend using one all the time. I would use a plain snaffle on a regular basis. But talk to your trainer and ask why he uses a twisted wire on your horse. Don't get in his face about it, but you should know if the horse has had training issues that he felt required that particular bit. I would definately talk to your trainer about this, after all we have never seen your horse and have no true idea of it's level of training, or the issues it may have. Your trainer does. Do you like the job he's done on your horse so far? Do you respect his opinions? If the answers are yes, talk to him and get him to tell you what kind of bit to get. He'll be back from the show right away, I would assume.

I still disagree with using a twisted snaffle, but I do agree with asking the trainer why they used it. If there is a training issue you should be aware of it.

[Mav2007]

Is it a slow twist? Those aren't as severe as the regular twist. I've seen some that are pretty thick and I doubt they are that severe, however it it's thin and looks practically like fencing wire, then that is pretty harsh in their mouth.

Regardless, if the horse works well in that bit and you aren't yanking and pulling at her, I'd leave her in that bit. It's probably less severe than switching bits and having all sorts of training issues to deal with. I'm not a horse trainer, but it does seem odd that they would train a horse using a twisted snaffle. I was always told twisted bits were for horses that needed to be reminded a little or maybe were getting a bit dull with the regular snaffle. Sort of like a "hello, is anyone home" type bit. After you got their attention, then you'd switch back to the regular bit.

[Wolfie]

I would ask your trainer why he used something so harsh. Will she not listen to anything other than the twisted snaffle?

[Joker]

The D ring or O ring bit works differnt ( no matter what type of mouth peice slow twist/ wire cork screw or egg but ect.) the argentine (sp) /tomb tumb works with a "curb action" and the snaffles work on the mouth/jaw the longer the shank the more "action" on the mouth. A twist in a snaffle is only as harsh and the hands useing it there is less reaction time with a twist ( a double twist is harsh as it "breaks" in two differnt spots in there mouth when useing two hands and even a little with one rein work and should only be used by experiance hands ) I use differnt snaffles on my Jr horses and when they are about to go to a curb ( 4 or 5 yrs) go slow and with a very mild curb type bit with a loose curb strap I will ride my 19 y/o in a snaffle once in awhile.

[NewtoMules]

A twisted wire is a good tool in the right hands. Too many people have harsh hands and cause the bit to also be harsh. IMO you MUST have light hands to correctly use a twisted wire.

If used correctly, it does NOT cause pain or fear. However, with harsh hands, it can and will.

I only use a twisted wire when I am riding with little or no contact. Even then, I do not use it as a regular bit. I only use it on a horse that needs to be lightened up in the mouth. Usually, after a few rides, they are much more reponsive and no longer need the bit.

Most of the time, I use a plain snaffle. It is similar in action to the twisted snaffle because they are both snaffles. Your mare would probably do fine in a regular snaffle. Putting her in a curb bit or shanked bit after she has been used to a snaffle is probably going to irritate her if she is not used to it.

JMHO

If you DO want to use a curb/shank bit, adjust her slowly to it.

[sli92]

Okay, is it a twisted wire?


or a slow twist?

[EquineAlberta]

I am with IWasBornOnAHorse...why would the trainer train in a twisted bit if he was training a horse for an amateur to take home and ride? The trainer shouldn't be training the horse for himself, he should be training it for the client and using the type of bit the client will be using when the horse goes home.

A slow twist like Sli92 shows cannot sit comfortably; it will either settle to sit so a ridge is on the bars or on the corners. The ridges are pointy. They also point into the tongue. Usually not that hard on the corners though as the bit is wide. A twisted wire as shown is likely more comfortable for the horse to hold, but then when you pull on it you are more likely to damage the bars and corners.

Selecting a bit should be about finding something that the horse can carry comfortably, that is suitable for the discipline, and is clear in its action. Teaching the horse to respond is up to the training.

Karen

[Spyder]

If the trainer is using any sort of twisted bit then he is no trainer at all. It is one thing for a trainer to use a more severe bit if he is the only one riding the horse but to train with this sort of bit then pass the horse on to a person that has no experience in the handling of this type of bit is wrong and a recipe for disaster.

What is even worse is that you say this is the only type of bit he has. This is a backyard trainer that never learned the basic principles of good riding.

To me his practices borders on abuse.

[EquineAlberta]

Spyder, I think you have it backwards...in my observation the "backyard" trainers are more likely to train in halters and snaffles and take their time...it is the "name" trainers that are looking for a quick turn around with their training horses and need big results fast that are more likely to use the stronger bits and gadgets as their regular gear. I think because they win, people are less likely to question it.

Karen

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by EquineAlberta

Spyder, I think you have it backwards...in my observation the "backyard" trainers are more likely to train in halters and snaffles and take their time...it is the "name" trainers that are looking for a quick turn around with their training horses and need big results fast that are more likely to use the stronger bits and gadgets as their regular gear. I think because they win, people are less likely to question it.

Karen

They may have a big name attached to themselves but this method of training lowers them to backyard status. This is of course my opinion.

[PrettyFancyStar]

it is the twisted snaffle, not the Slow twist

He is a very well known trainer around the area and has finished top ten in congress, he deffinitly knows what he is doing.

I brought her home and used my own bit on her and when i apply pressure to have her give me her head she just tosses it very high in the air and almost reared on me??

When i used the twisted snaffle, i was not very harsh with it and used very light pressure, she never seemed scared of it or anything she just listened and acted very well trained and even now she will respond to my bit but sometimes if i ask for her head while standing still she will toss her head as if to say "no i dont want to" . she also does this when i ask for the canter on the lounge. like i " i dont want to but i will" type response, but she has always done that.

I think im going to go and buy one. but only use it when she is havinng a stubborn day where she needs a "hey wake up". She is 6 yrs. old. so it wasnt like he was using a harsh bit on a newly broke horse, she has already been ridden for about two years prior to her training with him

[Sunlei]

This helped me to understand what a bit does to a horses mouth. Not sure about horse show 'rules' but I think those twisted bits are not allowed in some horse shows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snaffle