The Bits and Bitting Thread - Page 4

almost_mozart · 01-12-2008, 09:33 PM

Mechanical Hackamores

The mechanical hackamore is an often-used and often-misunderstood piece of equipment. Even though it is a hackamore, not a bit, this piece of equipment is quite harsh. The shanks are very long and usually straight, meaning that they magnify rein pressure and give a lot of leverage power to the curb chain underneath the jaw. A heavy-handed rider givin a strong, harsh jerk to the reins could easily damage the bone or even do nerve damage. Additionally, when the noseband is constructed of such materials as rope, rawhide, or bikechain, pressure across the nose can become quite severe. Gentler versions include chain encased in platic tubing, fleece, or flat leather. The curb chain could theoretically be replaced with a leather curb strap, as well, greatly decreasing the harsh effect of this hackamore.

The mechanical hackamore should only be used on well-broke, neck-reined horses--never on colts or those in training. It has no direct pull action whatsoever--pulling on one rein causes the entire curb chain to be tightened, giving the horse a cue to stop, but not to turn, bend, or flex--hence causig confusion and frustration. It has a lot of "whoa" for the reasons detailed above, and works well when a good stop, but not turn, is necessary. It may be used on older, broke horses who are suffering mouth injuries and cannot use a bit with good results. I personally use a mechanical hackamore in cold weather on my 15-year-old, neck-reined, hard-mouthed barrel horse when trail riding to avoid the problem of frozen bits.

almost_mozart · 01-16-2008, 09:17 AM

Anybody ever used a Mikmar bit? I'd love to hear from someone who has, as I know nothing about them.

almost_mozart · 01-17-2008, 01:46 PM

A review of bitless bridles might also be helpful.

gypsy · 01-17-2008, 04:30 PM

I would like some insight on the Mikmar bits as well. I have been curious about them.
I just caught up on this thread. I have a couple of small comments (not disagreements). I have used the Perfect Bit, and while I don't agree that it is perfect, I have been happy with it.
I also have never considered a chain mouthpiece harsh. In my experience, it is a light bit.
We have a wall of bits and use whatever makes a particular horse happy.
Have you tried the Cervi ring snaffle with the square mouthpiece? It will lighten one up that is trying to push through the bit. We like it to soften one.

almost_mozart · 01-18-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsy

I have used the Perfect Bit, and while I don't agree that it is perfect, I have been happy with it.
I also have never considered a chain mouthpiece harsh. In my experience, it is a light bit.
We have a wall of bits and use whatever makes a particular horse happy.
Have you tried the Cervi ring snaffle with the square mouthpiece? It will lighten one up that is trying to push through the bit. We like it to soften one.

Yeah, I think the Perfect Bit is decent, but the horses I've used it on don't respond well to it and try to run through it. I think it's one of those that only works on certain horses.

I've heard the chain mouthpiece called harsh before because it moves to accomodate the horse's mouth and shape, meaning that it can accidentally pinch either the tongue or bars in the joints of the chain.

I have not personally tried a squared mouthpiece, but it looks pretty harsh to me, kinda like thin twisted wire. Looks like you could cut or scratch your horses lips without trying too hard. 'Course, if I had one, I'm sure I'd use it. Everything has its place.

Rudy · 01-18-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost_mozart

I've heard the chain mouthpiece called harsh before because it moves to accomodate the horse's mouth and shape, meaning that it can accidentally pinch either the tongue or bars in the joints of the chain.

They are a very soft bit to me and I love using them. A horse cannot hang on them quite as much because the mouth piece is floppy, and they can play with it if they are a mouthy horse. I like using it on my walker because he can nod his head unheeded. I've found with ported bits he racks more and doesn't nod his head much which I think is from the port bouncing around. Single break mouths pinch but the chain he is most comfortable in.

almost_mozart · 01-19-2008, 11:42 AM

Check out these antique bits!

http://www.coug.net/bits/

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/06/..._47.100.24.htm

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/07/...4.3.478a,b.htm

gypsy · 01-19-2008, 12:21 PM

I have not personally tried a squared mouthpiece, but it looks pretty harsh to me, kinda like thin twisted wire. Looks like you could cut or scratch your horses lips without trying too hard. 'Course, if I had one, I'm sure I'd use it. Everything has its place.

[/quote]

The squared mouth is not nearly as harsh as the thin twisted wire. It isn't real thin. It is nice for helping to soften one who pushes on the bit. I'm sure you could hurt one with it, but not used properly (just like any bit).

almost_mozart · 01-19-2008, 12:29 PM

Maybe just the ones I've seen have been really thin. You're talking about the Cervi snaffle in particular? Yeah, that one's thicker, but I've never seen it up close.

gypsy · 01-19-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost_mozart

Maybe just the ones I've seen have been really thin. You're talking about the Cervi snaffle in particular? Yeah, that one's thicker, but I've never seen it up close.

Yeah, I'm talking about the Cervi one.

almost_mozart · 01-22-2008, 08:55 AM

Ah, a child after my own heart....

Anywhoo,

Bump 'n' Turn Hackamores

The bump 'n' turn (also called the stop and turn) is a funny little hackamore, used mainly in barrel racing.

The solid metal bar goes underneath the chin and is basically a very severe, strong curb that puts pressure on the jawbones. This hackamore has a lot of "whoa," but, despite the name, not much turn--it works rather like a sidepull in this department. You aren't meant to keep pulling and pulling on it--just pick up the reins and bump, then release pressure. It should only be used on certain horses because it's pretty harsh, and most horses don't like it. The bar underneath the chin can be covered with a bit-wrap-like material to cushion it, but steer clear of Vetrap, which compresses into a hard mass and can actually draw blood.

horsebabyhehe · 01-22-2008, 09:03 AM

this is the north and west wall in my grandparent's dining room. check out the crazies on this wall!!! i'll try to get some better pictures next time i go to their ranch but for now this is the best i have of them. there's some double mouthpieces up there.

almost_mozart · 01-22-2008, 09:28 AM

Wow! Quite the assortment of *stuff* there. Of course, I shouldn't talk. You should see my tack room.

SpotADots4Me · 01-22-2008, 11:01 PM

I never noticed this post(what I get for not being online much I guess) But wow, Thanks Mozart. . . I'm ever learning. . .

at the same time, I think I've learned too much for one day.

JoesLove · 01-22-2008, 11:08 PM

Thanks for posting. I learned some things about the bit Im using..and a bit I was looking at previously. =]

almost_mozart · 01-29-2008, 10:08 AM

Fitting a Bit

The exact position of the bit in the mouth depends on the age, size, and conformation of the horse, as well as the training it has had, the rider's experience level, the type of bit that is being used, the training goal that is to be accomplished, and the amount of control that is needed. It is generally accepted that there should be one or two wrinkles at the corners of the horse's mouth when the bit is left to sit on the bridle, but again this can vary drastically. A snaffle should, on average, be taken up farther in the mouth than a curb bit or gag, for example. Keep in mind that pressure on the bit will pull back the corners of the mouth, so if the bridle is too tight, this could become quite uncomfortable. On the other hand, if the bit is adjusted too loosely, it will flop about on the tongue, annoying the horse, and will be unable to perform as it is intended.

Another factor to take into consideration is curb tightness. The tighter the curb, the sooner it will engage when the reins are pulled back, and the less time the mouthpiece has to work on its own to warn the horse of an upcoming cue. A curb that is too loose is utterly useless and impedes bit function.

Finally, when using a hackamore or combination bit, keep in mind that the nasal bones of the skull are very delicate and sensitive. If the noseband is hanging too low on the face, it will apply pressure to these tender areas, which can be painful or even damaging.

almost_mozart · 02-19-2008, 02:29 PM

Bumping this back up, as there have been a lot of bit-related questions lately.

And I have a question of my own--would people find it helpful if I took pictures of the proper fit for the various types of bits and hackamores and posted them here?

Rudy · 02-19-2008, 02:58 PM

Since I haven't seen these mentioned together I'll post these...by all means add more to this I'm just writing general things off the top of my head for the moment.

The Weymouth Curb and Bradoon

These bits are meant to be used together and are commonly used in Saddleseat (excluding TWHs) and in the higher levels of dressage though it is not restricted to these sports.

The bradoon is like a loose ring snaffle but the cheek pieces are smaller and the mouthpiece is normally finer/narrower. This is the bit that is used for more direct reining and cues along with bending the horse and asking the horse to raise up more in the bridle. This bit is placed into the mouth first and attaches to a second bit hanger.

The Weymouth is a curb bit that is placed lower in the mouth and attaches to the main bit hanger on the bridle. This bit is used for refinement in movement and cues not direct reining. It is utilized when asking for a higher degree of collection from the horse and also is great to ask the horse to bring their nose down.

If you have never used this set up before and want to, go find a trainer and work from the ground up. When used properly these bits are wonderful (and I am absolutely hooked on using a double bridle.) but if not used correctly are easily abused and can damage the horses mouth.

BarrelGirl · 02-19-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost_mozart

And I have a question of my own--would people find it helpful if I took pictures of the proper fit for the various types of bits and hackamores and posted them here?

I think it'd be interesting. Let me know if you need some pics, as I think I have a few that show the bit position alright.

LBmare · 02-19-2008, 07:30 PM

Great job AM, another good topic for this thread would be types of metals permitted and not permitted in disciplines/breeds, shows, etc etc...I always see a lot of those questions on other boards, or hear them at shows, am asked them during lessons...

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01-12-2008, 09:33 PM
almost_mozart Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: .....transitioning..... Posts: 2,423	Mechanical Hackamores The mechanical hackamore is an often-used and often-misunderstood piece of equipment. Even though it is a hackamore, not a bit, this piece of equipment is quite harsh. The shanks are very long and usually straight, meaning that they magnify rein pressure and give a lot of leverage power to the curb chain underneath the jaw. A heavy-handed rider givin a strong, harsh jerk to the reins could easily damage the bone or even do nerve damage. Additionally, when the noseband is constructed of such materials as rope, rawhide, or bikechain, pressure across the nose can become quite severe. Gentler versions include chain encased in platic tubing, fleece, or flat leather. The curb chain could theoretically be replaced with a leather curb strap, as well, greatly decreasing the harsh effect of this hackamore. The mechanical hackamore should only be used on well-broke, neck-reined horses--never on colts or those in training. It has no direct pull action whatsoever--pulling on one rein causes the entire curb chain to be tightened, giving the horse a cue to stop, but not to turn, bend, or flex--hence causig confusion and frustration. It has a lot of "whoa" for the reasons detailed above, and works well when a good stop, but not turn, is necessary. It may be used on older, broke horses who are suffering mouth injuries and cannot use a bit with good results. I personally use a mechanical hackamore in cold weather on my 15-year-old, neck-reined, hard-mouthed barrel horse when trail riding to avoid the problem of frozen bits.

01-16-2008, 09:17 AM
almost_mozart Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: .....transitioning..... Posts: 2,423	Anybody ever used a Mikmar bit? I'd love to hear from someone who has, as I know nothing about them.

01-17-2008, 01:46 PM
almost_mozart Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: .....transitioning..... Posts: 2,423	A review of bitless bridles might also be helpful.

01-17-2008, 04:30 PM
gypsy Coming two Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North Central AR Posts: 1,729	I would like some insight on the Mikmar bits as well. I have been curious about them. I just caught up on this thread. I have a couple of small comments (not disagreements). I have used the Perfect Bit, and while I don't agree that it is perfect, I have been happy with it. I also have never considered a chain mouthpiece harsh. In my experience, it is a light bit. We have a wall of bits and use whatever makes a particular horse happy. Have you tried the Cervi ring snaffle with the square mouthpiece? It will lighten one up that is trying to push through the bit. We like it to soften one.

01-19-2008, 11:42 AM
almost_mozart Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: .....transitioning..... Posts: 2,423	Check out these antique bits! http://www.coug.net/bits/ http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/06/..._47.100.24.htm http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/07/...4.3.478a,b.htm

01-19-2008, 12:21 PM
gypsy Coming two Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North Central AR Posts: 1,729	I have not personally tried a squared mouthpiece, but it looks pretty harsh to me, kinda like thin twisted wire. Looks like you could cut or scratch your horses lips without trying too hard. 'Course, if I had one, I'm sure I'd use it. Everything has its place. [/quote] The squared mouth is not nearly as harsh as the thin twisted wire. It isn't real thin. It is nice for helping to soften one who pushes on the bit. I'm sure you could hurt one with it, but not used properly (just like any bit).

01-19-2008, 12:29 PM
almost_mozart Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: .....transitioning..... Posts: 2,423	Maybe just the ones I've seen have been really thin. You're talking about the Cervi snaffle in particular? Yeah, that one's thicker, but I've never seen it up close.

01-22-2008, 08:55 AM
almost_mozart Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: .....transitioning..... Posts: 2,423	Ah, a child after my own heart.... Anywhoo, Bump 'n' Turn Hackamores The bump 'n' turn (also called the stop and turn) is a funny little hackamore, used mainly in barrel racing. The solid metal bar goes underneath the chin and is basically a very severe, strong curb that puts pressure on the jawbones. This hackamore has a lot of "whoa," but, despite the name, not much turn--it works rather like a sidepull in this department. You aren't meant to keep pulling and pulling on it--just pick up the reins and bump, then release pressure. It should only be used on certain horses because it's pretty harsh, and most horses don't like it. The bar underneath the chin can be covered with a bit-wrap-like material to cushion it, but steer clear of Vetrap, which compresses into a hard mass and can actually draw blood.

01-22-2008, 09:03 AM
horsebabyhehe Long Yearling Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,095	this is the north and west wall in my grandparent's dining room. check out the crazies on this wall!!! i'll try to get some better pictures next time i go to their ranch but for now this is the best i have of them. there's some double mouthpieces up there. __________________ I love you, my brother! ~In Loving Memory of My Best Friend, Galahad~

01-22-2008, 09:28 AM
almost_mozart Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: .....transitioning..... Posts: 2,423	Wow! Quite the assortment of stuff there. Of course, I shouldn't talk. You should see my tack room.

01-22-2008, 11:01 PM
SpotADots4Me Yearling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 672	I never noticed this post(what I get for not being online much I guess) But wow, Thanks Mozart. . . I'm ever learning. . . at the same time, I think I've learned too much for one day.

01-22-2008, 11:08 PM
JoesLove Weanling Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 403	Thanks for posting. I learned some things about the bit Im using..and a bit I was looking at previously. =]

01-29-2008, 10:08 AM
almost_mozart Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: .....transitioning..... Posts: 2,423	Fitting a Bit The exact position of the bit in the mouth depends on the age, size, and conformation of the horse, as well as the training it has had, the rider's experience level, the type of bit that is being used, the training goal that is to be accomplished, and the amount of control that is needed. It is generally accepted that there should be one or two wrinkles at the corners of the horse's mouth when the bit is left to sit on the bridle, but again this can vary drastically. A snaffle should, on average, be taken up farther in the mouth than a curb bit or gag, for example. Keep in mind that pressure on the bit will pull back the corners of the mouth, so if the bridle is too tight, this could become quite uncomfortable. On the other hand, if the bit is adjusted too loosely, it will flop about on the tongue, annoying the horse, and will be unable to perform as it is intended. Another factor to take into consideration is curb tightness. The tighter the curb, the sooner it will engage when the reins are pulled back, and the less time the mouthpiece has to work on its own to warn the horse of an upcoming cue. A curb that is too loose is utterly useless and impedes bit function. Finally, when using a hackamore or combination bit, keep in mind that the nasal bones of the skull are very delicate and sensitive. If the noseband is hanging too low on the face, it will apply pressure to these tender areas, which can be painful or even damaging.

02-19-2008, 02:29 PM
almost_mozart Started Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: .....transitioning..... Posts: 2,423	Bumping this back up, as there have been a lot of bit-related questions lately. And I have a question of my own--would people find it helpful if I took pictures of the proper fit for the various types of bits and hackamores and posted them here?

02-19-2008, 02:58 PM
Rudy Yearling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 979	Since I haven't seen these mentioned together I'll post these...by all means add more to this I'm just writing general things off the top of my head for the moment. The Weymouth Curb and Bradoon These bits are meant to be used together and are commonly used in Saddleseat (excluding TWHs) and in the higher levels of dressage though it is not restricted to these sports. The bradoon is like a loose ring snaffle but the cheek pieces are smaller and the mouthpiece is normally finer/narrower. This is the bit that is used for more direct reining and cues along with bending the horse and asking the horse to raise up more in the bridle. This bit is placed into the mouth first and attaches to a second bit hanger. The Weymouth is a curb bit that is placed lower in the mouth and attaches to the main bit hanger on the bridle. This bit is used for refinement in movement and cues not direct reining. It is utilized when asking for a higher degree of collection from the horse and also is great to ask the horse to bring their nose down. If you have never used this set up before and want to, go find a trainer and work from the ground up. When used properly these bits are wonderful (and I am absolutely hooked on using a double bridle.) but if not used correctly are easily abused and can damage the horses mouth.

02-19-2008, 07:30 PM
LBmare Yearling Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: In the past Posts: 509	Great job AM, another good topic for this thread would be types of metals permitted and not permitted in disciplines/breeds, shows, etc etc...I always see a lot of those questions on other boards, or hear them at shows, am asked them during lessons...