New Horse, Not sure about bit type

southernbellechic · 05-09-2006, 02:10 PM

I bought a 3 yr old mare this past week. She has a lot of TB in her and has more of a TB frame rather than a QH frame. But she's skinnier than I like so we are getting her to gain a little weight with vet guidelines. I would really like her to become my trail horse. I have been ground working her since we've had her and have only done bareback leading around the yard types of rides. Which she does like a dream! I tacked her up yesterday and getting her to take a bit was more than a hassle (wouldn't open mouth, acting like she was gagging, getting her tounge on top of it, etc...) and then hubby was still leading me around as we were unsure of what she was going to do and I told him that I was going to try and make her go to the right (so he wouldn't get run over) and I barely touched the rein and she had a come apart. She started jumping sideways and bucking and throwing her head around. What did I do or didn't I do? Am I using the wrong bit (just used a snaffle D ring) for her just starting out and being a little high strung?? Never delt with a TB typey horse so this is new to me. Any advice or help would be great! THANKS

gbarmranch · 05-09-2006, 02:27 PM

I used to train hunters before switching to western - check her mouth (teeth) for rough edges - plus how thick is the snaffle - they come in different widths - also different sizes - some can pinch the sides of her mouth - if you have access to a hackamore, try it on her - she may have been worked only in a hack or a bosal and may not know what a snaffle is. My roping gelding had been broken in before we purchased him as a three year old, and they had done 30 days of hard training on him, including soring his mouth. I put him in a hackamore, and he was great; I have never put him back into a bit, and he team pens, heads, heels, and trail rides beautiful. I worked with him so that he is also very seat responsive so you don't have to pull on his mouth. Maybe that would help your new girl to relax until you two get to know each other better

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WYJumper · 05-09-2006, 02:35 PM

Personally, I don't think that it has much to do with her breed; but how much training she has.

From the sound of it, she hasn't had enough ground work. She needs time to get use to the bit, let her just wear it in a stall or pen until she is comfortable with it then and she lets you put in it willingly. Then she needs to be lunged and then be driven with the bit; so she understands what the rein cues mean.

Remember that she is young and this will probably take while. My colt is also 3, we spent the last two years getting use to the bit, saddle, and all the other ground work that needs to be done. Good luck!

southernbellechic · 05-09-2006, 02:40 PM

OK will check on teeth after this down poor we are getting right now! And will also measure the bit I used yesterday.

The lady I bought her from had put her into a 30 day John Lyons clinic. She said that they used a John Lyons bit on her but that was all she knew. I will see if I can get my hands on a hackamore and try that.

sunny · 05-09-2006, 03:13 PM

I dont think it has anything to do with the breed either.
Check the teeth, does she still have her Wolf teeth?
If so this can be the problem, as well.
good luck

beth55051 · 05-09-2006, 03:16 PM

Before you try a mechanical hack which will probably confuse her even more. Try just putting the bit in her mouth, making sure that it fits correctly and the putting a rope halter on over that and riding her off of the rope halter. After she is comfortable carrying the bit then start slowly transistioning her over to it using mainly the halter reins at first.

She may have very narrow bars which could also be very sensitive because there is less surface for the bit to lay on. I have a mare like that, she is a big beast of a horse but has bars like knives. I can't ride her in a bit with shanks or a curb chain or she will do just what you said your mare did. When I ride her I use a rope halter on her or an o-ring bit with a chain mouthpiece that I had made up specially for her. When I was still barrel racing her I used either the chain snaffle or a sliding snaffle gag if she was being bracy. She's 15 and a broodmare but still has an extremely sensitive mouth and can't take the pressure of anything harsher.

sheri7785 · 05-10-2006, 09:24 AM

I agree with the ground work. Starting her in a stall wearing the bit is the perfect starting point. She needs to be ground driven before you even climb on her so she knows what the bit pressure is and how to give to it. I would also lunge her with time in some kind of stretchy or draw rein set up to teach her how to go inframe. Even a trail horse needs some sort of collection.

Before you start any of that check her teeth and check to make sure the bit fits.

southernbellechic · 05-10-2006, 09:29 AM

Sorry everyone I didn't forget my own thread!

Check her teeth yesterday, everything looks good. No sharp points, wolf teeth according to previous owner had been taken out in her 2 yr old year and we didn't see them, it started raining again while we were cleaning stalls and its still raining this morning so I didn't get the bit measured yet.

mellowdane · 05-10-2006, 11:27 AM

Hm.. the only bits I saw on the john lyons page were basic snaffles, some full cheek, some D-ring.. nothing special. My guess on this would be check the width of the bit, if that is fine, then chalk it up to inexperience. I know my little punk can throw a tantrum about giving to the bit once in a while (and she has been bitted for a year). So I go and just work on getting her to flex right and left from the ground with the bit pressure. New situation, strange people, could just be overloading her brain, and 30 days isnt a very long time (even in a clinic situation) to get a baby settled in to the whole giving/flexing/yielding to the bit.

southernbellechic · 05-10-2006, 11:54 AM

That's what I thought when I looked at the bits on his page too. So maybe this one is just the wrong size. Like I said earlier I will get her mouth and the bit measured today after the rain.

I agree on the whole overwhelming her thing. Maybe to much to fast!?

And I also agree on the 30 days isn't a lot of training. I am looking for a trainer here so that I can have her maybe in another 30 day clinic. I have found a John Lyons certified trainer but they haven't gotten back with me as of yet. I have called and sent emails.

cindyf · 05-10-2006, 11:56 AM

You never said how much training she has had? Sounds to me like she is not trained at all and needs to be started. Or she could have 30 days and in a bosal only, and 30 days is mostly only ground work with maybe 3-5 days in the saddle if that. So to me, sounds like she needs training. And if your not qualified get a trainer! Good luck!

southernbellechic · 05-11-2006, 08:04 AM

Hired a trainer yesterday, she'll be here Saturday! Thanks everyone

05-09-2006, 02:10 PM
southernbellechic Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West TN Posts: 336	New Horse, Not sure about bit type I bought a 3 yr old mare this past week. She has a lot of TB in her and has more of a TB frame rather than a QH frame. But she's skinnier than I like so we are getting her to gain a little weight with vet guidelines. I would really like her to become my trail horse. I have been ground working her since we've had her and have only done bareback leading around the yard types of rides. Which she does like a dream! I tacked her up yesterday and getting her to take a bit was more than a hassle (wouldn't open mouth, acting like she was gagging, getting her tounge on top of it, etc...) and then hubby was still leading me around as we were unsure of what she was going to do and I told him that I was going to try and make her go to the right (so he wouldn't get run over) and I barely touched the rein and she had a come apart. She started jumping sideways and bucking and throwing her head around. What did I do or didn't I do? Am I using the wrong bit (just used a snaffle D ring) for her just starting out and being a little high strung?? Never delt with a TB typey horse so this is new to me. Any advice or help would be great! THANKS

05-09-2006, 02:27 PM
gbarmranch Pasture Pet Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mayberry Posts: 32,635	I used to train hunters before switching to western - check her mouth (teeth) for rough edges - plus how thick is the snaffle - they come in different widths - also different sizes - some can pinch the sides of her mouth - if you have access to a hackamore, try it on her - she may have been worked only in a hack or a bosal and may not know what a snaffle is. My roping gelding had been broken in before we purchased him as a three year old, and they had done 30 days of hard training on him, including soring his mouth. I put him in a hackamore, and he was great; I have never put him back into a bit, and he team pens, heads, heels, and trail rides beautiful. I worked with him so that he is also very seat responsive so you don't have to pull on his mouth. Maybe that would help your new girl to relax until you two get to know each other better . __________________ http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Quality Foundation Quarter Horses If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." Augustine of Hippo

05-09-2006, 02:35 PM
WYJumper Product Reviews & Conf. Clinic Moderator Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Least Populated State Posts: 1,342	Personally, I don't think that it has much to do with her breed; but how much training she has. From the sound of it, she hasn't had enough ground work. She needs time to get use to the bit, let her just wear it in a stall or pen until she is comfortable with it then and she lets you put in it willingly. Then she needs to be lunged and then be driven with the bit; so she understands what the rein cues mean. Remember that she is young and this will probably take while. My colt is also 3, we spent the last two years getting use to the bit, saddle, and all the other ground work that needs to be done. Good luck! __________________ Steph

05-09-2006, 02:40 PM
southernbellechic Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West TN Posts: 336	OK will check on teeth after this down poor we are getting right now! And will also measure the bit I used yesterday. The lady I bought her from had put her into a 30 day John Lyons clinic. She said that they used a John Lyons bit on her but that was all she knew. I will see if I can get my hands on a hackamore and try that.

05-09-2006, 03:13 PM
sunny Yearling Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 952	I dont think it has anything to do with the breed either. Check the teeth, does she still have her Wolf teeth? If so this can be the problem, as well. good luck

05-09-2006, 03:16 PM
beth55051 Bombproof Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: East Central Minnesota Posts: 7,977	Before you try a mechanical hack which will probably confuse her even more. Try just putting the bit in her mouth, making sure that it fits correctly and the putting a rope halter on over that and riding her off of the rope halter. After she is comfortable carrying the bit then start slowly transistioning her over to it using mainly the halter reins at first. She may have very narrow bars which could also be very sensitive because there is less surface for the bit to lay on. I have a mare like that, she is a big beast of a horse but has bars like knives. I can't ride her in a bit with shanks or a curb chain or she will do just what you said your mare did. When I ride her I use a rope halter on her or an o-ring bit with a chain mouthpiece that I had made up specially for her. When I was still barrel racing her I used either the chain snaffle or a sliding snaffle gag if she was being bracy. She's 15 and a broodmare but still has an extremely sensitive mouth and can't take the pressure of anything harsher. __________________ *Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened.*

05-10-2006, 09:24 AM
sheri7785 Long Yearling Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Omaha Posts: 1,073	I agree with the ground work. Starting her in a stall wearing the bit is the perfect starting point. She needs to be ground driven before you even climb on her so she knows what the bit pressure is and how to give to it. I would also lunge her with time in some kind of stretchy or draw rein set up to teach her how to go inframe. Even a trail horse needs some sort of collection. Before you start any of that check her teeth and check to make sure the bit fits.

05-10-2006, 09:29 AM
southernbellechic Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West TN Posts: 336	Sorry everyone I didn't forget my own thread! Check her teeth yesterday, everything looks good. No sharp points, wolf teeth according to previous owner had been taken out in her 2 yr old year and we didn't see them, it started raining again while we were cleaning stalls and its still raining this morning so I didn't get the bit measured yet.

05-10-2006, 11:27 AM
mellowdane Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bainbridge Island, WA Posts: 1,098	Hm.. the only bits I saw on the john lyons page were basic snaffles, some full cheek, some D-ring.. nothing special. My guess on this would be check the width of the bit, if that is fine, then chalk it up to inexperience. I know my little punk can throw a tantrum about giving to the bit once in a while (and she has been bitted for a year). So I go and just work on getting her to flex right and left from the ground with the bit pressure. New situation, strange people, could just be overloading her brain, and 30 days isnt a very long time (even in a clinic situation) to get a baby settled in to the whole giving/flexing/yielding to the bit. __________________ Has is occurred to you that there's a certain inefficiency in questioning me on things you've already made up your mind about? - Spock

05-10-2006, 11:54 AM
southernbellechic Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West TN Posts: 336	That's what I thought when I looked at the bits on his page too. So maybe this one is just the wrong size. Like I said earlier I will get her mouth and the bit measured today after the rain. I agree on the whole overwhelming her thing. Maybe to much to fast!? And I also agree on the 30 days isn't a lot of training. I am looking for a trainer here so that I can have her maybe in another 30 day clinic. I have found a John Lyons certified trainer but they haven't gotten back with me as of yet. I have called and sent emails.

05-10-2006, 11:56 AM
cindyf Yearling Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: southern mn Posts: 714	You never said how much training she has had? Sounds to me like she is not trained at all and needs to be started. Or she could have 30 days and in a bosal only, and 30 days is mostly only ground work with maybe 3-5 days in the saddle if that. So to me, sounds like she needs training. And if your not qualified get a trainer! Good luck!

05-11-2006, 08:04 AM
southernbellechic Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West TN Posts: 336	Hired a trainer yesterday, she'll be here Saturday! Thanks everyone