Western saddle "bar" questions....help!

Dustygirl · 10-29-2009, 04:44 PM

So Sampson (coming 3y/o Belgian) has grown out of his saddle. This was something that I knew to expect and have watched closely for as he is still growing...no big surprise. When I bought the last saddle, I measured his withers and made sure I found a saddle that allowed his shoulders to move properly, didn't have any pressure points etc. I was told that this saddle had FQHB...not knowing any better, I took their word for it, tried it on Sampson and low and behold, it fit...all was well. Fast forward 8 months later and he needs a bigger saddle. He's not wide enough for a "draft size" saddle as most of the ones I see labled as such have 9 or 10" gullets and those drop down onto his withers, so from what I've read and been told by several experienced horse folks is that for right now, he will need something with FQHB's. A good friend of mine went with me to a local tack shop to see if they had anything that may fit. The saleswoman merely walked down the aisle, looked at the gullet width and was naming off this one or that one as having FQHB. Here's where I get confused....I thought the "bars" referred to the size/shape of the tree that ran support down the length of the saddle to distribute the riders weight. How can you tell what bars or tree the saddle has by looking at the gullet alone? Keeping in mind that my friend trains cutting horses, has years and years of experience on some very high dollar horses and rides in nothing that costs less than $1500 (and those are the bottom of the barrel saddles), I have to wonder if he's just snubbing his nose at a cheaper saddle that may actually fit my Big Boy??

Can someone explain to me how to actually tell what kind of bars a saddle has? I know the width/angle of the gullet is very important, but is that all there is to it? Thanks for any help and suggestions. I'm really wanting to find something quick as it's perfect riding season here, but if it means waiting until next summer to ride again, I'll not do so until I find something that fits him!

beth55051 · 10-29-2009, 05:07 PM

You're right, you can't tell the size of the bars from the size of the gullet. I've seen saddles made with semiQH bars but an 8" gullet just to prove that point.

The size of the bars is determined by the angle between the two bars of the tree.

You might try a Haflinger tree, that might be what you're looking for if the draft trees are still too wide for him.

SouthernTrailsGA · 10-29-2009, 06:33 PM

Well as most of you know, there is no Industry Standard in Tree Measuring

This is a generalization and they way a majority of manufactures measure, Ralide, Steele, those being the two largest in the country.

Semi-QH 6.5" Gullet
Reg. QH 6.75" Gullet
Full QH 7.0" Gullet
Haflinger 7.5" Gullet
Draft 8.0" Gullet

Going in order, each one has Flatter Bars.

Many Imports will say 9", 10" Gullet but that is because they do not measure like Americans

Our Belgian has used a FQH Bar for the ages of 3 and 4, I expect a change at 5 and most likely another at 7, how much ?, never know

To keep cost down, maybe go with a Haflinger Cordura Saddle by BigHorn

http://www.southerntrails.us/images/BH-306.jpg

If you Belgian has very mutton withers you can save 100.00 with this one

http://www.southerntrails.us/images/BH-295.jpg

Both only come in a 16" Seat, but there are some other American Made Options if that is not a good seat size.

There are some Good New All Leather Saddle for well under a 1,000.00 also if that is more what you are looking for

.

fishing_trex · 10-30-2009, 10:28 AM

Don't forget about flex panel saddles. I know a trainer that uses her Orthoflex on everything from high withered, narrow saddlebreds to drafts.

Slim Pikkens · 11-02-2009, 08:32 AM

He won't be fully mature until 5 yrs of age and you may find youself shopping for another saddle then. How thick is your saddle pad? You really want it 1" thick or a little less. Too thick can affect fit possibly causing pinching or causing the saddle to float.

singing tree · 11-02-2009, 08:38 AM

I was also going to suggest the Big Horn Haflinger cordura saddle. Mine sure fits my wide Haffies, one of whom is 14.3. The Big Horn Draft tree also fit one 15 hand Haffie that I had, though it is a little too big for my current crew. It might be just right for yours though... The gullet is not excessively wide on it.

Dustygirl · 11-02-2009, 06:26 PM

Thanks for the suggestions and info folks! I've stumbled across a saddle company that offers to ship a bare tree to their customer prior to building the saddle (which I really like that idea), so I'm leaning towards that option. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but I'd like to see what's inside my Big Boy's "clothes" rather than taking someone's word for it (like the last saddle I bought!). I know that I will be saddle shopping again before he's fully grown, but at least I'll know that in the mean time he's comfy. Thanks again for all the ideas and suggestions. I'll pass along the progress with this particular saddle company if anyone should be interested.

Mav2007 · 11-02-2009, 08:10 PM

Here is what I was taught. Gullet is not an indication of bar spread. My saddle has a 5 3/4 inch gullet, semi bars. The bar spread is 12 inch. According to the saddle repair person, semi is a 12 inch spread, full is a 13, and arab is 11. In order to measure the bar spread, you almost need the saddle to not have fleece on it, otherwise it's hard to get an accurate measure. So, what I learned is that when people hold a ruler up to the gullet, it means very little. What means a lot to me when looking for a saddle is the brand and the serial number. That number will tell you the bar size and all sorts of other valuable info. In fact, I just bought a saddle from a lady who said it was full QH bars, but the serial number tells me different. When I questioned her, she said they (tack store) sold it to her under the pretense that it was full QH bars and that was brand new, so how that mistake was made is beyond me.

Slim Pikkens · 11-03-2009, 05:29 PM

Invite all your western riding friends to come for a saddle-fitting party and to bring their saddles. You get to try them on your horse and hope one works. Then you take all the info from the saddle, maker/brand, number and go shopping. All the tree specs are different from Ralide trees and rawhide covered trees and probably a little different from the flex trees.

mlh619 · 11-03-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustygirl

Thanks for the suggestions and info folks! I've stumbled across a saddle company that offers to ship a bare tree to their customer prior to building the saddle (which I really like that idea), so I'm leaning towards that option. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but I'd like to see what's inside my Big Boy's "clothes" rather than taking someone's word for it (like the last saddle I bought!). I know that I will be saddle shopping again before he's fully grown, but at least I'll know that in the mean time he's comfy. Thanks again for all the ideas and suggestions. I'll pass along the progress with this particular saddle company if anyone should be interested.

This is what I did and my saddle fits better than any before it! I was advised to go with the flex panels because my horse has a very flat back and pretty much every saddle and too much rock in the bars for her. The flex tree has seemed to correct that without causing other pinched spots or oddly distributed weight!

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10-29-2009, 04:44 PM
Dustygirl Weanling Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 229	Western saddle "bar" questions....help! So Sampson (coming 3y/o Belgian) has grown out of his saddle. This was something that I knew to expect and have watched closely for as he is still growing...no big surprise. When I bought the last saddle, I measured his withers and made sure I found a saddle that allowed his shoulders to move properly, didn't have any pressure points etc. I was told that this saddle had FQHB...not knowing any better, I took their word for it, tried it on Sampson and low and behold, it fit...all was well. Fast forward 8 months later and he needs a bigger saddle. He's not wide enough for a "draft size" saddle as most of the ones I see labled as such have 9 or 10" gullets and those drop down onto his withers, so from what I've read and been told by several experienced horse folks is that for right now, he will need something with FQHB's. A good friend of mine went with me to a local tack shop to see if they had anything that may fit. The saleswoman merely walked down the aisle, looked at the gullet width and was naming off this one or that one as having FQHB. Here's where I get confused....I thought the "bars" referred to the size/shape of the tree that ran support down the length of the saddle to distribute the riders weight. How can you tell what bars or tree the saddle has by looking at the gullet alone? Keeping in mind that my friend trains cutting horses, has years and years of experience on some very high dollar horses and rides in nothing that costs less than $1500 (and those are the bottom of the barrel saddles), I have to wonder if he's just snubbing his nose at a cheaper saddle that may actually fit my Big Boy?? Can someone explain to me how to actually tell what kind of bars a saddle has? I know the width/angle of the gullet is very important, but is that all there is to it? Thanks for any help and suggestions. I'm really wanting to find something quick as it's perfect riding season here, but if it means waiting until next summer to ride again, I'll not do so until I find something that fits him! __________________ Most humans never shut up long enough to realize that animals do speak....with their souls!

10-29-2009, 05:07 PM
beth55051 Bombproof Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: East Central Minnesota Posts: 7,977	You're right, you can't tell the size of the bars from the size of the gullet. I've seen saddles made with semiQH bars but an 8" gullet just to prove that point. The size of the bars is determined by the angle between the two bars of the tree. You might try a Haflinger tree, that might be what you're looking for if the draft trees are still too wide for him. __________________ *Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened.*

10-29-2009, 06:33 PM
SouthernTrailsGA Halter broke Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Cleveland, GA Posts: 128	Well as most of you know, there is no Industry Standard in Tree Measuring This is a generalization and they way a majority of manufactures measure, Ralide, Steele, those being the two largest in the country. Semi-QH 6.5" Gullet Reg. QH 6.75" Gullet Full QH 7.0" Gullet Haflinger 7.5" Gullet Draft 8.0" Gullet Going in order, each one has Flatter Bars. Many Imports will say 9", 10" Gullet but that is because they do not measure like Americans Our Belgian has used a FQH Bar for the ages of 3 and 4, I expect a change at 5 and most likely another at 7, how much ?, never know To keep cost down, maybe go with a Haflinger Cordura Saddle by BigHorn http://www.southerntrails.us/images/BH-306.jpg If you Belgian has very mutton withers you can save 100.00 with this one http://www.southerntrails.us/images/BH-295.jpg Both only come in a 16" Seat, but there are some other American Made Options if that is not a good seat size. There are some Good New All Leather Saddle for well under a 1,000.00 also if that is more what you are looking for . __________________ A More Comfortable Horse Performs Better www.southerntrailssaddle.com Kevin Last edited by SouthernTrailsGA : 10-29-2009 at 06:35 PM.

10-30-2009, 10:28 AM
fishing_trex Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,436	Don't forget about flex panel saddles. I know a trainer that uses her Orthoflex on everything from high withered, narrow saddlebreds to drafts. __________________ -- There are two ways to slide easily through life -- to believe everything or to doubt everything. Both ways will save you from thinking.

11-02-2009, 08:32 AM
Slim Pikkens Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,047	He won't be fully mature until 5 yrs of age and you may find youself shopping for another saddle then. How thick is your saddle pad? You really want it 1" thick or a little less. Too thick can affect fit possibly causing pinching or causing the saddle to float.

11-02-2009, 08:38 AM
singing tree Long Yearling Join Date: May 2009 Location: Hartville, Ohio Posts: 1,025	I was also going to suggest the Big Horn Haflinger cordura saddle. Mine sure fits my wide Haffies, one of whom is 14.3. The Big Horn Draft tree also fit one 15 hand Haffie that I had, though it is a little too big for my current crew. It might be just right for yours though... The gullet is not excessively wide on it.

11-02-2009, 06:26 PM
Dustygirl Weanling Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 229	Thanks for the suggestions and info folks! I've stumbled across a saddle company that offers to ship a bare tree to their customer prior to building the saddle (which I really like that idea), so I'm leaning towards that option. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but I'd like to see what's inside my Big Boy's "clothes" rather than taking someone's word for it (like the last saddle I bought!). I know that I will be saddle shopping again before he's fully grown, but at least I'll know that in the mean time he's comfy. Thanks again for all the ideas and suggestions. I'll pass along the progress with this particular saddle company if anyone should be interested. __________________ Most humans never shut up long enough to realize that animals do speak....with their souls!

11-02-2009, 08:10 PM
Mav2007 Started Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,672	Here is what I was taught. Gullet is not an indication of bar spread. My saddle has a 5 3/4 inch gullet, semi bars. The bar spread is 12 inch. According to the saddle repair person, semi is a 12 inch spread, full is a 13, and arab is 11. In order to measure the bar spread, you almost need the saddle to not have fleece on it, otherwise it's hard to get an accurate measure. So, what I learned is that when people hold a ruler up to the gullet, it means very little. What means a lot to me when looking for a saddle is the brand and the serial number. That number will tell you the bar size and all sorts of other valuable info. In fact, I just bought a saddle from a lady who said it was full QH bars, but the serial number tells me different. When I questioned her, she said they (tack store) sold it to her under the pretense that it was full QH bars and that was brand new, so how that mistake was made is beyond me. __________________

11-03-2009, 05:29 PM
Slim Pikkens Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,047	Invite all your western riding friends to come for a saddle-fitting party and to bring their saddles. You get to try them on your horse and hope one works. Then you take all the info from the saddle, maker/brand, number and go shopping. All the tree specs are different from Ralide trees and rawhide covered trees and probably a little different from the flex trees.