Chain and Wire Bits, clarification. - Page 2

NorthernHorseGirl · 10-30-2009, 06:58 PM

Thanks Karen, I agree with your post as well.
And Rockin GR, my question was why a person would use a bit that can actually damage their horse if they really don't need it, not why would anyone use different types of bits. I'm fully aware of why that is and my daughter and I have a number of different bits and use them according to what we're trying to accomplish. She rides her horse with a snaffle normally but uses a curb to show or for gymkanas.

GoLightly · 10-30-2009, 08:03 PM

The corners of the horse's mouth can indeed develop thickening, callousing and deadening of the nerves,through inappropriate pressure/use of whatever bit, for extended periods of time..
(shivers)
Don't ask me how I know.
A horse's mouth is full of sensitive tissues. It is up the rider/trainer to ensure his mouth remains soft, through his training.

Apply pressure to a part of your arm for several minutes, the amount of time a horse would be "pulling" on you. (Or you've been pulling on your horse). Your arm will be numb. So will the horse's mouth. A horse's mouth can be re-sensitized, but only to a certain point, depending on the extent of the initial damage done.
This is when certain of the thinner bits can be useful, for a horse with a troubled mouth. Always with experienced hands, which sadly isn't always the case.

For8tune · 10-30-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabiancowgirl

I know if my arab had it on she would flip, literally!

Ditto! Fortune is very sensitive in his mouth. I can't even touch his mouth without him getting upset. He moves off body and legs

I am one in the same. I could never imagine putting anything like that in any horses' mouth. Besides isn't riding your horse about body language instead of hands? If you use your body and legs properly why use bits like this? JMO

Sirita_88 · 10-31-2009, 09:45 AM

I don't own one, but a boarder has a bike chain bit. I hate to admit that I am guilty of using it a few times. I have never been really harsh with it, but every once in a while (and very rarely) it is useful, to remind a horse to lay off your hands, I never use tugs with this bit, but gentle pressure to get the horse off my hands. But thats VERY rarely.

You wanna talk about a scary bit... This guy was training my horse for a bit (and not long thereafter) Taught him how to go in a curb using a low-port smooth mouthpiece with a SOLID curb chain. I mean, a BAR. He left it here, and it has been sitting in my tack room since...

RockHorseRanch · 10-31-2009, 12:30 PM

Good topic and interesting posts.

Amazing what our horses give us. They do have VERY sensitive mouths -exactly like ours. Tongue, roof of mouth, bars of the jaw, yes, even teeth that get clunked. Mouths just like ours. Except they can't talk to tell us "ouch".

ChasnCans · 10-31-2009, 02:24 PM

I'm about to start using a dog chain crub. Because my barrel horses is being a totally (blank) about going in the gate. He has been check by and vet and it is not a training issue. He just gets too hot and kinda wants to do his own thing.

Rafflesgirl · 10-31-2009, 03:34 PM

I have also looked at those type bits/chains and thought OH MY GOSH! I'm sure there are those who are experienced and know how to use them and I'm not one of them. And don't want to ever know I just think most people don't use them properly.

My 15 year old daughter plans to have her new mare trained to run barrels this coming year and she is already getting her used to the pattern just walking and trotting (just for fun shows no big time plans) and I've already told her no way no how will a trainer ever use one of those things on her. If she can't run barrels and poles in a normal type bit then she won't run them at all. She can stay a trail/pleasure mare. Just my opinion.

I'm sure this is the exception, but my first horse I owned as a child could and would do anything pleasure, barrels etc, in just a halter or plain snaffle. She just was that kind of horse. I'm glad I learned on a horse like her. But it spoiled me.

ChasnCans · 11-02-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafflesgirl

I have also looked at those type bits/chains and thought OH MY GOSH! I'm sure there are those who are experienced and know how to use them and I'm not one of them. And don't want to ever know I just think most people don't use them properly.

My 15 year old daughter plans to have her new mare trained to run barrels this coming year and she is already getting her used to the pattern just walking and trotting (just for fun shows no big time plans) and I've already told her no way no how will a trainer ever use one of those things on her. If she can't run barrels and poles in a normal type bit then she won't run them at all. She can stay a trail/pleasure mare. Just my opinion.

I'm sure this is the exception, but my first horse I owned as a child could and would do anything pleasure, barrels etc, in just a halter or plain snaffle. She just was that kind of horse. I'm glad I learned on a horse like her. But it spoiled me.

Yeah, I grew up on a good horse like that too. I placed in all the funshows. But try riding that horse against the real barrel horses, you'd be wasting your money and time.

evelynwolfe · 11-02-2009, 02:33 PM

We had an exceptional "real" barrel/poles/flags horse that took mom all the way to nationals and then on to worlds in 1D quite a few years back. He rode in a tom thumb bit and we never once had a problem with him. When she came out of the ring she would hand him off to me to take back to the trailer. He also had a set of breaks on him with just the tom thumb.

thekingsgirl07 · 11-02-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evelynwolfe

We had an exceptional "real" barrel/poles/flags horse that took mom all the way to nationals and then on to worlds in 1D quite a few years back. He rode in a tom thumb bit and we never once had a problem with him. When she came out of the ring she would hand him off to me to take back to the trailer. He also had a set of breaks on him with just the tom thumb.

When i rode Saddlebreds i hd a gelding that wpuld pull horribly he was very high spirted! Before i got him the trainer cut his tounge to where it was barely attached. I bought him started riding him and the first show i went to i won. I also rode him in a tom thumb! he worked great in it! i also rode him one handed because he like to stickis nose in the air grab the bit and run. But we wroked through everything! he is now retired and living the good life!

winkybear · 11-05-2009, 09:51 PM

IMHO there is no use for twisted-wire-bicycle-chainsaw-horror bits.

I used to be able to say that because I am lifelong Dressage enthusiast, "We" don't use harsh methods. "We" cringe in horror at some of the things people put in horses' mouths.

But nowadays there is the Blue Tongue brigade, practicing Rollkur (

), and the FEI judges actually rewarding them with good scores. (Sheesh!)

So I can't say "We" anymore.

Back in my college days I boarded with a adult gal who did not know how to ride and was way overmatched by her horse, and refused to take lessons. Eventually she had this poor horse in a double twisted wire snaffle bit and she would see-saw it back and forth until the poor horse was flinging pink foam all over himself as he grabbed the bit and raised his head in terror, running away with her.

She was convinced he was a bad horse and she wasn't doing anything wrong.

She used to watch me ride Dressage. She started asking me to ride her horse, for my advice for what she was doing wrong,etc. (I always stopped short of giving her free 'lessons' or free training. I always told her she needed to pay for 'real' lessons from an instructor, but she refused.)

I would get on the horse and he was very well behaved, and she was always baffled.

Eventually, I talked her into selling me the horse.

I "rehabbed" him by staying the heck out of his mouth, doing 60 days of ground work in a longe caveson. When I started riding him again I used a hackamore for about 90 days, then transitioned to a fat snaffle wrapped in SealTex.

He turned out to be one of the nicest little dressage and trail horses I have ever known.

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10-30-2009, 06:58 PM
NorthernHorseGirl Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 509	Thanks Karen, I agree with your post as well. And Rockin GR, my question was why a person would use a bit that can actually damage their horse if they really don't need it, not why would anyone use different types of bits. I'm fully aware of why that is and my daughter and I have a number of different bits and use them according to what we're trying to accomplish. She rides her horse with a snaffle normally but uses a curb to show or for gymkanas. __________________ Some horses come into our lives and quickly go. Others stay awhile and make hoofprints on our hearts and we are never, ever the same. Anonymous Rest in peace Clint, I'll always love you and I'll miss you for the rest of my life. You were and will always be my perfect horse.

10-30-2009, 08:03 PM
GoLightly Newborn Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 46	The corners of the horse's mouth can indeed develop thickening, callousing and deadening of the nerves,through inappropriate pressure/use of whatever bit, for extended periods of time.. (shivers) Don't ask me how I know. A horse's mouth is full of sensitive tissues. It is up the rider/trainer to ensure his mouth remains soft, through his training. Apply pressure to a part of your arm for several minutes, the amount of time a horse would be "pulling" on you. (Or you've been pulling on your horse). Your arm will be numb. So will the horse's mouth. A horse's mouth can be re-sensitized, but only to a certain point, depending on the extent of the initial damage done. This is when certain of the thinner bits can be useful, for a horse with a troubled mouth. Always with experienced hands, which sadly isn't always the case. __________________ Hope is the thing with feathers, that perches in the soul, and sings the tune without the words, and never stops at all.. Emily Dickinson. When I was born, I was so surprised, I didn't speak for a year and a half. Gracie Allan.

10-31-2009, 09:45 AM
Sirita_88 Started Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mt. Juliet, Tennessee Posts: 2,413	I don't own one, but a boarder has a bike chain bit. I hate to admit that I am guilty of using it a few times. I have never been really harsh with it, but every once in a while (and very rarely) it is useful, to remind a horse to lay off your hands, I never use tugs with this bit, but gentle pressure to get the horse off my hands. But thats VERY rarely. You wanna talk about a scary bit... This guy was training my horse for a bit (and not long thereafter) Taught him how to go in a curb using a low-port smooth mouthpiece with a SOLID curb chain. I mean, a BAR. He left it here, and it has been sitting in my tack room since...

10-31-2009, 12:30 PM
RockHorseRanch Newborn Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 45	Good topic and interesting posts. Amazing what our horses give us. They do have VERY sensitive mouths -exactly like ours. Tongue, roof of mouth, bars of the jaw, yes, even teeth that get clunked. Mouths just like ours. Except they can't talk to tell us "ouch".

10-31-2009, 02:24 PM
ChasnCans Started Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KS Posts: 2,012	I'm about to start using a dog chain crub. Because my barrel horses is being a totally (blank) about going in the gate. He has been check by and vet and it is not a training issue. He just gets too hot and kinda wants to do his own thing. __________________ In memory of baby Mayln Marie Loyd. While he may knock over a barrel he will never* break my heart

10-31-2009, 03:34 PM
Rafflesgirl Weanling Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 491	I have also looked at those type bits/chains and thought OH MY GOSH! I'm sure there are those who are experienced and know how to use them and I'm not one of them. And don't want to ever know I just think most people don't use them properly. My 15 year old daughter plans to have her new mare trained to run barrels this coming year and she is already getting her used to the pattern just walking and trotting (just for fun shows no big time plans) and I've already told her no way no how will a trainer ever use one of those things on her. If she can't run barrels and poles in a normal type bit then she won't run them at all. She can stay a trail/pleasure mare. Just my opinion. I'm sure this is the exception, but my first horse I owned as a child could and would do anything pleasure, barrels etc, in just a halter or plain snaffle. She just was that kind of horse. I'm glad I learned on a horse like her. But it spoiled me. __________________ Kelli ~He is the lord of all horses and has been my friend through many dangers~

11-02-2009, 02:33 PM
evelynwolfe Halter broke Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Southern IN Posts: 183	We had an exceptional "real" barrel/poles/flags horse that took mom all the way to nationals and then on to worlds in 1D quite a few years back. He rode in a tom thumb bit and we never once had a problem with him. When she came out of the ring she would hand him off to me to take back to the trailer. He also had a set of breaks on him with just the tom thumb. __________________ Sell the cow, buy the sheep, but never be without the horse. ~ Irish Proverb

11-05-2009, 09:51 PM
winkybear Newborn Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marysville, Washington, 30 miles north of Seattle Posts: 3	IMHO there is no use for twisted-wire-bicycle-chainsaw-horror bits. I used to be able to say that because I am lifelong Dressage enthusiast, "We" don't use harsh methods. "We" cringe in horror at some of the things people put in horses' mouths. But nowadays there is the Blue Tongue brigade, practicing Rollkur (), and the FEI judges actually rewarding them with good scores. (Sheesh!) So I can't say "We" anymore. Back in my college days I boarded with a adult gal who did not know how to ride and was way overmatched by her horse, and refused to take lessons. Eventually she had this poor horse in a double twisted wire snaffle bit and she would see-saw it back and forth until the poor horse was flinging pink foam all over himself as he grabbed the bit and raised his head in terror, running away with her. She was convinced he was a bad horse and she wasn't doing anything wrong. She used to watch me ride Dressage. She started asking me to ride her horse, for my advice for what she was doing wrong,etc. (I always stopped short of giving her free 'lessons' or free training. I always told her she needed to pay for 'real' lessons from an instructor, but she refused.) I would get on the horse and he was very well behaved, and she was always baffled. Eventually, I talked her into selling me the horse. I "rehabbed" him by staying the heck out of his mouth, doing 60 days of ground work in a longe caveson. When I started riding him again I used a hackamore for about 90 days, then transitioned to a fat snaffle wrapped in SealTex. He turned out to be one of the nicest little dressage and trail horses I have ever known. __________________ Linda D, with 'Ice' - 8 year old rescue Medicine Hat Paint