Cruelty at horseshows

Slim Pikkens · 07-27-2008, 02:26 PM

This isn't about soring, it's about excessive use of spurs and whips. We attended a Fun Day yesterday and one gal rode her son's wee pony in the arena race and whipped her all the way to the timer. Unfortunately I didn't witness this altho I've seen this same rider whip her games horse and spur him on every stride. In that case I wrote a letter that this cruelty took place and needs to be stopped. Nothing said or done. This time I'm not sure if I should phone the club pres., send her an email, send her a written letter, or raise the subject at the next club meeting of which I am a member. I don't like the message this gives the younger riders. Any public funding the club might receive is for children, not the adults so consideration of the children is part of their mandate. I'm not sure how or who to approach regarding this matter. I'm not looking to point a finger specifically but that the club make the competitors aware that use of excessive force will not be tolerated, and will be enforced. Why is everyone so complacent and won't deal with this? I know I'm going to look like the bad person by making someone confront this issue.

redboy · 07-27-2008, 03:05 PM

Who used excessive force, the parent or the son?
Personally, I would think you could easily bring that up without offending someone. Just state that, as the adults, you set the example for the children.
Play it off like some spectator said it in front of you and your child, and that THEY acted very upset and found it quite appalling, and mention the specific example, but like, it was during such and such event, blah blah. And you felt it was something that should, and needed to be addressed. Make it seem like the mystery spectator brought this on, but, perhaps its a good idea to have it addressed, and recognized as a problem.
Then nobody is actually pointing any fingers, or saying something directly to someone, but the message gets out and the person realizes that others percieve their methods as excessive.
Just my 2 cents worth..., Good luck, RB

**divinemisselle** · 07-27-2008, 03:20 PM

Instead of going in and complaining in a tirade, how about taking a stand and putting the ball in the court of your organization by stating/asking:

"It has been brought to my attention yet again, that the excess use of whips and spurs at club sponsored events is becoming a greater issue. As evidenced by conversations I've had with others who've witnessed these occurrances, it is an issue that deserves addressing. What is your [the club's] official stance on the use of whips and spurs? What is this organization doing proactively to educate our young participants in this area? What are the club's efforts for creating positive role models in our adult members, by which our younger members are learning by model?"

Take this to any/all avenues necessary so that action is created.

Slim Pikkens · 07-27-2008, 03:30 PM

I wouldn't have gone to the meeting in a tirade but sometimes when it's an issue a person feels strongly about we become at a loss as to how to best handle it. The advice is appreciated and I will certainly follow your guidlines. Thank you divine and redboy. It was the mother who rode the pony in the arena race and whipped it. I shall raise it as an issue to be addressed and remind them of how the public perceives this behaviour. This has been going on for years with this same gal and no one will address it.

**divinemisselle** · 07-27-2008, 03:34 PM

I didn't mean to say that I thought you were going to charge in there out of control.

Though I completely understand the inclination to want to do so.

I completely agree, there is no place for this kind of behaviour, and it needs to rectified, if not only for the horses' sakes, but for the reputation of the organization as a public serving group. They need to take a serious look at how they are perceived by those they serve, for those in the same are who support their very existence.

BarnBum · 07-27-2008, 03:36 PM

Personally, I feed the same about excessive use of whips and spurs. I don't use them. If the incident (s) are bothering you, maybe they are bothering someone else too and they aren't stepping forward. I know when I go to a horse show, what I remember from the whole day is the "abuse" I witnessed from every age of rider, not the "good go" I had or the blue I won. Which is sad b/c I am there to have a good time and to me, watching the "abuse" is not a good time and it ruins my day.

Personally, I would address it "as a whole" and not pin-point one person or point fingers.

I would as for a policy that Excessive use of whips and spurs is prohibited. Now I can hear it now, what I feel is excessive, isn't to the next one.

AngelPA · 07-27-2008, 04:05 PM

There's always one bone head ,in one way or another, in every club.

Your going to 1/2 agree with you and the other 1/2 saying your to soft or don't know what your talking about, you don't know how to handle a horse, you don't know how to be strong, you ride english and don't get it, or you ride western, saddle seat, hunt seat whatever, ... ect. Wouldln't it be great if they made bone head spray like they do round up for weeds and you could just spray the little buggers, then *poof* they'd be gone?

Hope your board members on your club have the courage to look into this strongly and if there is obsessive whipping or spuring in an cruel manner going on, that they have the guts to acknowledge it and have a firm soluation. Good luck.

enigma · 07-27-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelPA

Wouldln't it be great if they made bone head spray like they do round up for weeds and you could just spray the little buggers, then *poof* they'd be gone?

LMAO - I know I'd be a lifelong customer.....

Slim Pikkens · 07-27-2008, 06:02 PM

Years ago when we were barrel racing we used a racing bat which consisted of a riding crop with small leather rosettes that ran the length of it. This took most of the whack out of a whack. Then we used a bat, two long wide pieces of leather that emitted a noticable "pop". That changed to a skinny crop with a wide popper which emitted a good "pop". Abuse of the above items resulted in their ban and only a rope with a fuzzed out end was allowed. It's movement as tho to strike the horse would inspire it to run faster. The fuzzed end removed the force that would be there without it.
I don't have a problem with these. In this case it was like a short whippy dressage whip the mother used. I've witnessed her with her horse and she's hitting it hard, not tapping or brushing it with the whip. She's out to win come h... or high water.

jjsimsez · 07-27-2008, 07:37 PM

that woman needs to get a horse her own size.then maybe hed be able to buck her off for being cruel.hopefully in the middle of a race in front of everyone.

what the heck is she doing racing a wee pony in the first place.

ive never done contesting but have raced pals around trails.couple leg urges,leaning forward and horse gets idea.they feel your excitment and will run their legs off for you.maybe i could see taps on rear but whipping and spurs is eccessive.go slim i hope they ban her from doing this!

Slim Pikkens · 07-28-2008, 07:46 AM

I called our Humane Society Inspector (friend and horse owner) and spoke to her "off the record". She suggested I might mention at the club meeting in Aug. that many clubs are not permitting this type of behaviour and it doesn't speak favorably for this club when others clubs are seeing it being allowed....an angle I hadn't thought of. I will be armed with valid arguments should the need arise. Thanks. If I survive the meeting, I'll let everyone know how it goes. but that's in mid Aug.

**gbarmranch** · 07-28-2008, 07:49 AM

Good for you.. That is the way to deal with that one person.. and hopefully set the tone that your club will not tolerate such behavior from anyone else..

Let us know how it goes.. I remember when our kids showed saddle clubs, and anyone who had done this would have been asked to leave the arena..

BarnBum · 07-28-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pikkens

I called our Humane Society Inspector (friend and horse owner) and spoke to her "off the record". She suggested I might mention at the club meeting in Aug. that many clubs are not permitting this type of behaviour and it doesn't speak favorably for this club when others clubs are seeing it being allowed....an angle I hadn't thought of. I will be armed with valid arguments should the need arise. Thanks. If I survive the meeting, I'll let everyone know how it goes. but that's in mid Aug.

Thats great .. good luck !!

Not to mention the message it is giving to these kids about watching the abuse. Hopefully the parents aren't encouraging the kids abuse to their horses.

DoBeSassy · 07-28-2008, 02:39 PM

No advice to ad, but I wanted to ask you if you would let us know how it goes. If you have luck, it may be something we should all bring up at our club meetings. Not that everyone is having a problem, but more just to talk it out and make sure we are all on the same page

Wolfie · 07-29-2008, 12:00 AM

Can you get pictures or videos of the abuse to show to saddle club board memebers?

PaintsQH · 07-29-2008, 07:59 PM

Slim, if you only saw some of the shows where I live. Some of the teenagers and pre-teens are downright mean if a horse wont go in the gate, knocks a barrel down etc. Its never the horses' fault, but these kids must have some bad example's as parents. I know for one, an 11yr old girl had the anger of a drunken sailor when her scared horse who ran a barrel pattern maybe 4 times in its life wouldnt let her mount. Once she did manage to get on, her mother would stand behind this poor horse and smack it with a crop as the kid is smacking and kicking as well. No wonder the poor thing was burnt out. I would be very angered as well Slim. Abuse at horse shows has no place there.

Sunlei · 07-29-2008, 08:26 PM

The racing industry just passed new rules about whips, what materials are not allowed, how high the whip arm may be raised and where the horse can be struck. Sometimes a show or race needs to have rules on what gear is allowed and how the gear can be used. Or people take advantage.

They had a problem with whips made of steel rods and some jocks whipping horses on the head.

If you go to the official Jocky club website they have the rules posted and your club perhaps can use a similar format. Also the AKC rules for dog shows have verbage to prevent handlers from different abusive behavior on show grounds. Then your club can write up a policy of what happens on show grounds.

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07-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Slim Pikkens Started Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,948	Cruelty at horseshows This isn't about soring, it's about excessive use of spurs and whips. We attended a Fun Day yesterday and one gal rode her son's wee pony in the arena race and whipped her all the way to the timer. Unfortunately I didn't witness this altho I've seen this same rider whip her games horse and spur him on every stride. In that case I wrote a letter that this cruelty took place and needs to be stopped. Nothing said or done. This time I'm not sure if I should phone the club pres., send her an email, send her a written letter, or raise the subject at the next club meeting of which I am a member. I don't like the message this gives the younger riders. Any public funding the club might receive is for children, not the adults so consideration of the children is part of their mandate. I'm not sure how or who to approach regarding this matter. I'm not looking to point a finger specifically but that the club make the competitors aware that use of excessive force will not be tolerated, and will be enforced. Why is everyone so complacent and won't deal with this? I know I'm going to look like the bad person by making someone confront this issue.

07-27-2008, 03:05 PM
redboy Yearling Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland Posts: 949	Who used excessive force, the parent or the son? Personally, I would think you could easily bring that up without offending someone. Just state that, as the adults, you set the example for the children. Play it off like some spectator said it in front of you and your child, and that THEY acted very upset and found it quite appalling, and mention the specific example, but like, it was during such and such event, blah blah. And you felt it was something that should, and needed to be addressed. Make it seem like the mystery spectator brought this on, but, perhaps its a good idea to have it addressed, and recognized as a problem. Then nobody is actually pointing any fingers, or saying something directly to someone, but the message gets out and the person realizes that others percieve their methods as excessive. Just my 2 cents worth..., Good luck, RB

07-27-2008, 03:20 PM
divinemisselle Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 6,478	Instead of going in and complaining in a tirade, how about taking a stand and putting the ball in the court of your organization by stating/asking: "It has been brought to my attention yet again, that the excess use of whips and spurs at club sponsored events is becoming a greater issue. As evidenced by conversations I've had with others who've witnessed these occurrances, it is an issue that deserves addressing. What is your [the club's] official stance on the use of whips and spurs? What is this organization doing proactively to educate our young participants in this area? What are the club's efforts for creating positive role models in our adult members, by which our younger members are learning by model?" Take this to any/all avenues necessary so that action is created. __________________ Let's all be Naughty this year, And save Santa the trip.

07-27-2008, 03:30 PM
Slim Pikkens Started Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,948	I wouldn't have gone to the meeting in a tirade but sometimes when it's an issue a person feels strongly about we become at a loss as to how to best handle it. The advice is appreciated and I will certainly follow your guidlines. Thank you divine and redboy. It was the mother who rode the pony in the arena race and whipped it. I shall raise it as an issue to be addressed and remind them of how the public perceives this behaviour. This has been going on for years with this same gal and no one will address it.

07-27-2008, 03:34 PM
divinemisselle Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 6,478	I didn't mean to say that I thought you were going to charge in there out of control. Though I completely understand the inclination to want to do so. I completely agree, there is no place for this kind of behaviour, and it needs to rectified, if not only for the horses' sakes, but for the reputation of the organization as a public serving group. They need to take a serious look at how they are perceived by those they serve, for those in the same are who support their very existence. __________________ Let's all be Naughty this year, And save Santa the trip.

07-27-2008, 03:36 PM
BarnBum Greenbroke Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sunshine State Posts: 3,611	Personally, I feed the same about excessive use of whips and spurs. I don't use them. If the incident (s) are bothering you, maybe they are bothering someone else too and they aren't stepping forward. I know when I go to a horse show, what I remember from the whole day is the "abuse" I witnessed from every age of rider, not the "good go" I had or the blue I won. Which is sad b/c I am there to have a good time and to me, watching the "abuse" is not a good time and it ruins my day. Personally, I would address it "as a whole" and not pin-point one person or point fingers. I would as for a policy that Excessive use of whips and spurs is prohibited. Now I can hear it now, what I feel is excessive, isn't to the next one. __________________ Murphys Horse Law - A horse's misbehavior will be in direct proportion to the number of people who are watching !!

07-27-2008, 04:05 PM
AngelPA Weanling Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: PA Posts: 381	Dulp ! There's always one bone head ,in one way or another, in every club. Your going to 1/2 agree with you and the other 1/2 saying your to soft or don't know what your talking about, you don't know how to handle a horse, you don't know how to be strong, you ride english and don't get it, or you ride western, saddle seat, hunt seat whatever, ... ect. Wouldln't it be great if they made bone head spray like they do round up for weeds and you could just spray the little buggers, then poof they'd be gone? Hope your board members on your club have the courage to look into this strongly and if there is obsessive whipping or spuring in an cruel manner going on, that they have the guts to acknowledge it and have a firm soluation. Good luck.

07-27-2008, 06:02 PM
Slim Pikkens Started Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,948	Years ago when we were barrel racing we used a racing bat which consisted of a riding crop with small leather rosettes that ran the length of it. This took most of the whack out of a whack. Then we used a bat, two long wide pieces of leather that emitted a noticable "pop". That changed to a skinny crop with a wide popper which emitted a good "pop". Abuse of the above items resulted in their ban and only a rope with a fuzzed out end was allowed. It's movement as tho to strike the horse would inspire it to run faster. The fuzzed end removed the force that would be there without it. I don't have a problem with these. In this case it was like a short whippy dressage whip the mother used. I've witnessed her with her horse and she's hitting it hard, not tapping or brushing it with the whip. She's out to win come h... or high water.

07-27-2008, 07:37 PM
jjsimsez Weanling Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: indiana Posts: 383	that woman needs to get a horse her own size.then maybe hed be able to buck her off for being cruel.hopefully in the middle of a race in front of everyone.what the heck is she doing racing a wee pony in the first place.ive never done contesting but have raced pals around trails.couple leg urges,leaning forward and horse gets idea.they feel your excitment and will run their legs off for you.maybe i could see taps on rear but whipping and spurs is eccessive.go slim i hope they ban her from doing this!

07-28-2008, 07:46 AM
Slim Pikkens Started Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,948	I called our Humane Society Inspector (friend and horse owner) and spoke to her "off the record". She suggested I might mention at the club meeting in Aug. that many clubs are not permitting this type of behaviour and it doesn't speak favorably for this club when others clubs are seeing it being allowed....an angle I hadn't thought of. I will be armed with valid arguments should the need arise. Thanks. If I survive the meeting, I'll let everyone know how it goes. but that's in mid Aug.

07-28-2008, 07:49 AM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,236	Good for you.. That is the way to deal with that one person.. and hopefully set the tone that your club will not tolerate such behavior from anyone else.. Let us know how it goes.. I remember when our kids showed saddle clubs, and anyone who had done this would have been asked to leave the arena.. __________________ Quality Foundation Quarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Perhaps the best Yuletide decoration is being wreathed in smiles. ~Author Unknown

07-28-2008, 02:39 PM
DoBeSassy Seasoned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 4,968	No advice to ad, but I wanted to ask you if you would let us know how it goes. If you have luck, it may be something we should all bring up at our club meetings. Not that everyone is having a problem, but more just to talk it out and make sure we are all on the same page __________________ There is none so blind as she who will not see

07-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Wolfie Coming two Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: US Posts: 1,547	Can you get pictures or videos of the abuse to show to saddle club board memebers?

07-29-2008, 07:59 PM
PaintsQH Started Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,442	Slim, if you only saw some of the shows where I live. Some of the teenagers and pre-teens are downright mean if a horse wont go in the gate, knocks a barrel down etc. Its never the horses' fault, but these kids must have some bad example's as parents. I know for one, an 11yr old girl had the anger of a drunken sailor when her scared horse who ran a barrel pattern maybe 4 times in its life wouldnt let her mount. Once she did manage to get on, her mother would stand behind this poor horse and smack it with a crop as the kid is smacking and kicking as well. No wonder the poor thing was burnt out. I would be very angered as well Slim. Abuse at horse shows has no place there. __________________ My treasures do not clink, they gleam in the sunlight and neigh in the night

07-29-2008, 08:26 PM
Sunlei Yearling Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 950	The racing industry just passed new rules about whips, what materials are not allowed, how high the whip arm may be raised and where the horse can be struck. Sometimes a show or race needs to have rules on what gear is allowed and how the gear can be used. Or people take advantage. They had a problem with whips made of steel rods and some jocks whipping horses on the head. If you go to the official Jocky club website they have the rules posted and your club perhaps can use a similar format. Also the AKC rules for dog shows have verbage to prevent handlers from different abusive behavior on show grounds. Then your club can write up a policy of what happens on show grounds. Last edited by Sunlei : 08-02-2008 at 07:11 PM.