Grooming--Need help

foxybianca · 05-12-2008, 11:33 AM

How can I make or get a stubborn horse to let me groom him. He tries to move and hit me with his butt. He has tried to kick before as well. He does not to be washed or brushed.

Need help!!!!

SunnyKS · 05-12-2008, 11:52 AM

Does he wiggle around when tied even if you are not brushing him? If so he might need some long sessions being tied up in a safe place to learn some patience.

foxybianca · 05-12-2008, 12:28 PM

He doesn't move around too much when tied. He gets that way when I try to brush him

I could try to leave him ties for a while. How long would you suggest?

PaintCowgirl · 05-12-2008, 03:19 PM

Hi, I am thinking that what the problem may be is out of two things: 1) he is feeling trapped, or maybe he has sensitive skin, when you try to groom him or 2) he disrespects you and doesn't want to do things your way. If he is derespecting you teach whose boss with trying to give him the choice of listening if he doesn't want to lunge him until he pays attention to you and what you want and then try to groom him again. Now if he is feeling trapped, or has sensitive skin, then as you have him tied gentle put your hand on his withers. Make sure that you are calm and have a soft touch. Don't pet him or move your hand any just keep it there to let him know that you are not going to hurt him. If he moves just move with him don't make him stand still. Once he accepts it gently start moving your hand in a brushing movement. Then once he accepts this try out your brushes to see which ones he will accept and will not. If he doesn't accept one then wait until he is comfortable with the other brushes and later on try it again but gently. If he still seems as if he wants to move try some sensitivity activies such as the friendly game. I hope that this was some help to you.

SunnyKS · 05-12-2008, 04:59 PM

Does he let you do other stuff to/with him besides brushing or is he a little stinker all the time?

How does he react to being brushed when you hold the lead instead of tie?

gbarmranch · 05-13-2008, 05:27 AM

I have to agree with PCG - if he isn't sensitive, then it is blatant disprespect.. and dealing with that first is more important then the grooming..

foxybianca · 05-13-2008, 06:53 AM

He is pretty much a stinker. He wasn't handled much before coming to me. I had gotten him use to me and then we started building our new house and he had to stay with a friend because we sold our other house. Now he is just rotten.

SunnyKS · 05-13-2008, 07:10 AM

Well I don't know a whole lot about mini's but if this was a big horse and it was mine I would get in a pen (in case he gets away from you) get a whole lot of hose, a long line, some mud boots, and start spraying his feet with water. He will run circles around you but that's okay let him run just keep spraying till he stops running. Then you stop spraying for awhile till he starts thinking about something else then start over. Gradually get all four feet and work your way up. Keep at it until you spray him all over with him standing still. Success the first day might be just his feet. But don't quit until you get at least one foot with him standing still for it.

The point of this is he has to give into being touched. He can run and fuss but he still gets touched. He will give up finally but how long it takes is entirely dependant on how stubborn he is. I had a two year old once...let me tell you I was glad for those mud boots!

PS: no matter what don't spray his ears. Water can run down and get trapped in there. Also spend some time just sitting in his pen doing nothing. Get him used to you being in his space and only get loved on.

2manyminis · 05-13-2008, 11:32 AM

I am going to refrain from commenting on the water hose trick- that might work on big horses, but minis are much smarter! What you are going to get is a horse that takes off every time it sees the water hose!

My advice is work on the ground manners first before worrying about grooming- they have to learn respect & bullying them isn't the way to get it. If you have never owned a mini before, or been around big horses, get someone to help you! I picked up 15 mares this weekend from people who had no idea how to handle them & they are wilder than march hares! They were all headed to slaughter because no one could do anything with them!

It may be too, that he is sensitive- my gelding has real tender skin & can't stand to be rubbed on real hard.

SunnyKS · 05-13-2008, 12:26 PM

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly, but nothing I suggested was in any way bullying a horse. If I had said tie him up tight and hose him down till he kills himself or stops moving that would be bullying.

Spraying a horse's feet and allowing them the choice to move away from it until they choose to hold still then giving them a release is not bullying. It is a proven desensitizing method. It uses all the same principles as regular round pen work.

Now it may not be the right choice for a mini and I did say that. It may not be the right choice for each person. But it is not in any way bullying.

gbarmranch · 05-13-2008, 12:31 PM

We do as sunny does; and it works fine.. but again, we don't do minis..

Respect is not bullying.. bathing is not bullying..

But what do we know.. we have only been successfully training horses for well over 30 years..

BarrelGirl · 05-13-2008, 12:36 PM

Getting our minis used to water is the same as getting our big guys used to water. We do the exact same as you!

If it's a water fear issue, we spray at their feet and let them move where ever they want, but as soon as they stop, the hose shuts off. Before you know it you're able to hose off the entire horse. It's tried and true for me at least... and we have 4 quarter horses, 2 ponies, and 11 minis, and all were trained to accept water the same way.

I guess the only way I see it as bullying is if they're in a very small confined space and are getting water sprayed all over them when the horse doesn't have the option to leave. That's what's nice with this method, the horse can 'escape' (or so he thinks) but the water is still there. Then standing still is the reward!

tuffsmom · 05-13-2008, 12:46 PM

Sunny I do all the new horses that way. It is a very good method to get them use to being washed.

2manyminis · 05-13-2008, 12:52 PM

But in the wrong hands of say, someone who hasn't done this, and doesn't know when to back off of it, THAT is bullying them. Yes, I agree that it is desensitizing, but seeing as how this guy wasn't handled before, maybe there are other things that should come first.

I worked at a ASB farm for a few days- they called firing a fire extenguisher in the horses face desensitizing!

While I have not bred or trained for 30 yrs, I have trained & shown minis for quite a while. No offense intended toward anyone here, but they don't make good first horses for people who have little exerpience dealing with these issues.

gbarmranch · 05-13-2008, 12:53 PM

Probably not. No untrained critter does..

pippy · 05-13-2008, 12:54 PM

Sunny- that is pretty much how I get them used to water to- just start at the feet and work my way up. They dance around at first and eventually allow it, as they get used to it, I move the hose up farther. I also do not use ice cold water.

I have a mare who would dance and try to kick, pull back and look just generally miserable when groomed- with a certain type of brush. It was one of those metal curry brushes- I switched to a rubber curry and never had another problem. The metal must of been pulling on her hair to much or was somehow irritating her to the point she acted up. She otherwise tied fine and respected me.

Thought I'd ad: if he is pretty much a stinker all the time, and has not been handled much lately, you may hate to hear it as it will take time, but just go back to the basics. The basic of catching, haltering, being tied patiently, leading- basic ground stuff. If he'd been introduced to it earlier, it should come back to him soon. If he got away w/ stuff at the other house, he is of course, trying to get away w/ it again w/ you. If you go back and start from the beginning, you re- establish yourself w/ the horse.
Good Luck!

TheUpNorthCowgirl · 05-13-2008, 01:27 PM

I've got more minis than I know what to do with, and I bathe them like any other horse. A horse is a horse, no matter the size. I put them on a lunge line and spray them with the horse. They figure out in a hurry the water is NOT going to hurt them and eventually they quit being silly. And under NO circumstances do I ever let my minis turn their butts to me. That's a no no.

short_kid · 05-13-2008, 01:57 PM

Miniature horses are just that.......horses just smaller. They need to respect you just like the larger ones. I am sooooooooooo tired of people treating them like wall flowers or super intellects. They are a HORSE, with all the behaviors and instincts of one. No one needs to slam anyone else on this forum for giving their opinion and some very good advice. Just remember that when he relaxes for the hose, reward him by stopping.

2manyminis · 05-13-2008, 02:05 PM

They most certainly need to respect you, but at the same time, shouldn't you learn to swim BEFORE you start diving? Maybe this little guy needs to learn how to stand tied first, maybe he needs more ground work in leading & handling- maybe he has sweet itch or some other skin allergy that it HURTS him to brush. Since he's not my horse, I am just saying that maybe there are underlying problems we do not see, since we aren't there, hands on.

I don't agree with the hose issue, but that's MY opinion, I don't have to agree, & I didn't slam any one, if you noticed, I refrained for making a comment on it. If it works for you, great, I have other ways & I have never had an issue bathing my horses once they learned to stand tied. What I was saying had anyone bothered to read was that in the WRONG hands, this probably wasn't a good idea!

SunnyKS · 05-13-2008, 05:24 PM

Well Foxy did say he doesn't wiggle too much when tied so I took that to mean he had learned how to tie, but she did say he was naughty when brushed and handled in general (if I understood right). If more ground work is needed to help that then maybe some specific advice on ground work activities would be helpful for her.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

BTW are there pictures of this eledged problem child somewhere? You know Foxy here on HT a horse doesn't really exist until we see the picture!

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05-12-2008, 11:33 AM
foxybianca Halter broke Join Date: May 2008 Location: Glennville Georgia Posts: 61	Grooming--Need help How can I make or get a stubborn horse to let me groom him. He tries to move and hit me with his butt. He has tried to kick before as well. He does not to be washed or brushed. Need help!!!!

05-12-2008, 11:52 AM
SunnyKS Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,653	Does he wiggle around when tied even if you are not brushing him? If so he might need some long sessions being tied up in a safe place to learn some patience. __________________

05-12-2008, 12:28 PM
foxybianca Halter broke Join Date: May 2008 Location: Glennville Georgia Posts: 61	He doesn't move around too much when tied. He gets that way when I try to brush him I could try to leave him ties for a while. How long would you suggest?

05-12-2008, 03:19 PM
PaintCowgirl Weanling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Where God puts me Posts: 277	Hi, I am thinking that what the problem may be is out of two things: 1) he is feeling trapped, or maybe he has sensitive skin, when you try to groom him or 2) he disrespects you and doesn't want to do things your way. If he is derespecting you teach whose boss with trying to give him the choice of listening if he doesn't want to lunge him until he pays attention to you and what you want and then try to groom him again. Now if he is feeling trapped, or has sensitive skin, then as you have him tied gentle put your hand on his withers. Make sure that you are calm and have a soft touch. Don't pet him or move your hand any just keep it there to let him know that you are not going to hurt him. If he moves just move with him don't make him stand still. Once he accepts it gently start moving your hand in a brushing movement. Then once he accepts this try out your brushes to see which ones he will accept and will not. If he doesn't accept one then wait until he is comfortable with the other brushes and later on try it again but gently. If he still seems as if he wants to move try some sensitivity activies such as the friendly game. I hope that this was some help to you.

05-12-2008, 04:59 PM
SunnyKS Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,653	Does he let you do other stuff to/with him besides brushing or is he a little stinker all the time? How does he react to being brushed when you hold the lead instead of tie? __________________

05-13-2008, 05:27 AM
gbarmranch Pasture Pet Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mayberry Posts: 32,635	I have to agree with PCG - if he isn't sensitive, then it is blatant disprespect.. and dealing with that first is more important then the grooming.. __________________ http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Quality Foundation Quarter Horses If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." Augustine of Hippo

05-13-2008, 06:53 AM
foxybianca Halter broke Join Date: May 2008 Location: Glennville Georgia Posts: 61	He is pretty much a stinker. He wasn't handled much before coming to me. I had gotten him use to me and then we started building our new house and he had to stay with a friend because we sold our other house. Now he is just rotten.

05-13-2008, 07:10 AM
SunnyKS Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,653	Well I don't know a whole lot about mini's but if this was a big horse and it was mine I would get in a pen (in case he gets away from you) get a whole lot of hose, a long line, some mud boots, and start spraying his feet with water. He will run circles around you but that's okay let him run just keep spraying till he stops running. Then you stop spraying for awhile till he starts thinking about something else then start over. Gradually get all four feet and work your way up. Keep at it until you spray him all over with him standing still. Success the first day might be just his feet. But don't quit until you get at least one foot with him standing still for it. The point of this is he has to give into being touched. He can run and fuss but he still gets touched. He will give up finally but how long it takes is entirely dependant on how stubborn he is. I had a two year old once...let me tell you I was glad for those mud boots! PS: no matter what don't spray his ears. Water can run down and get trapped in there. Also spend some time just sitting in his pen doing nothing. Get him used to you being in his space and only get loved on. __________________

05-13-2008, 11:32 AM
2manyminis Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 98	I am going to refrain from commenting on the water hose trick- that might work on big horses, but minis are much smarter! What you are going to get is a horse that takes off every time it sees the water hose! My advice is work on the ground manners first before worrying about grooming- they have to learn respect & bullying them isn't the way to get it. If you have never owned a mini before, or been around big horses, get someone to help you! I picked up 15 mares this weekend from people who had no idea how to handle them & they are wilder than march hares! They were all headed to slaughter because no one could do anything with them! It may be too, that he is sensitive- my gelding has real tender skin & can't stand to be rubbed on real hard.

05-13-2008, 12:26 PM
SunnyKS Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,653	Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly, but nothing I suggested was in any way bullying a horse. If I had said tie him up tight and hose him down till he kills himself or stops moving that would be bullying. Spraying a horse's feet and allowing them the choice to move away from it until they choose to hold still then giving them a release is not bullying. It is a proven desensitizing method. It uses all the same principles as regular round pen work. Now it may not be the right choice for a mini and I did say that. It may not be the right choice for each person. But it is not in any way bullying. __________________

05-13-2008, 12:31 PM
gbarmranch Pasture Pet Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mayberry Posts: 32,635	We do as sunny does; and it works fine.. but again, we don't do minis.. Respect is not bullying.. bathing is not bullying.. But what do we know.. we have only been successfully training horses for well over 30 years.. __________________ http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Quality Foundation Quarter Horses If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." Augustine of Hippo

05-13-2008, 12:36 PM
BarrelGirl Started Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,042	Getting our minis used to water is the same as getting our big guys used to water. We do the exact same as you! If it's a water fear issue, we spray at their feet and let them move where ever they want, but as soon as they stop, the hose shuts off. Before you know it you're able to hose off the entire horse. It's tried and true for me at least... and we have 4 quarter horses, 2 ponies, and 11 minis, and all were trained to accept water the same way. I guess the only way I see it as bullying is if they're in a very small confined space and are getting water sprayed all over them when the horse doesn't have the option to leave. That's what's nice with this method, the horse can 'escape' (or so he thinks) but the water is still there. Then standing still is the reward! __________________ I'll never forget you, Clyde! 3/18/02-12/30/06. You left me too soon, Peppy. It will never be the same without you 4/18/91 - 5/1/09.

05-13-2008, 12:46 PM
tuffsmom Kid Safe Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,736	Sunny I do all the new horses that way. It is a very good method to get them use to being washed. __________________

05-13-2008, 12:52 PM
2manyminis Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 98	But in the wrong hands of say, someone who hasn't done this, and doesn't know when to back off of it, THAT is bullying them. Yes, I agree that it is desensitizing, but seeing as how this guy wasn't handled before, maybe there are other things that should come first. I worked at a ASB farm for a few days- they called firing a fire extenguisher in the horses face desensitizing! While I have not bred or trained for 30 yrs, I have trained & shown minis for quite a while. No offense intended toward anyone here, but they don't make good first horses for people who have little exerpience dealing with these issues.

05-13-2008, 12:53 PM
gbarmranch Pasture Pet Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mayberry Posts: 32,635	Probably not. No untrained critter does.. __________________ http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Quality Foundation Quarter Horses If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." Augustine of Hippo

05-13-2008, 12:54 PM
pippy Started Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: minnesota Posts: 2,298	Sunny- that is pretty much how I get them used to water to- just start at the feet and work my way up. They dance around at first and eventually allow it, as they get used to it, I move the hose up farther. I also do not use ice cold water. I have a mare who would dance and try to kick, pull back and look just generally miserable when groomed- with a certain type of brush. It was one of those metal curry brushes- I switched to a rubber curry and never had another problem. The metal must of been pulling on her hair to much or was somehow irritating her to the point she acted up. She otherwise tied fine and respected me. Thought I'd ad: if he is pretty much a stinker all the time, and has not been handled much lately, you may hate to hear it as it will take time, but just go back to the basics. The basic of catching, haltering, being tied patiently, leading- basic ground stuff. If he'd been introduced to it earlier, it should come back to him soon. If he got away w/ stuff at the other house, he is of course, trying to get away w/ it again w/ you. If you go back and start from the beginning, you re- establish yourself w/ the horse. Good Luck! __________________ "It's never to late to live happily ever after." Last edited by pippy : 05-13-2008 at 01:02 PM.

05-13-2008, 01:27 PM
TheUpNorthCowgirl Long Yearling Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Upper Michigan Posts: 1,354	I've got more minis than I know what to do with, and I bathe them like any other horse. A horse is a horse, no matter the size. I put them on a lunge line and spray them with the horse. They figure out in a hurry the water is NOT going to hurt them and eventually they quit being silly. And under NO circumstances do I ever let my minis turn their butts to me. That's a no no. __________________ The horse has so docile a nature, that he would rather do right than wrong, if he can only be taught to distinguish one from the other."

05-13-2008, 01:57 PM
short_kid Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: michigan Posts: 3,167	Miniature horses are just that.......horses just smaller. They need to respect you just like the larger ones. I am sooooooooooo tired of people treating them like wall flowers or super intellects. They are a HORSE, with all the behaviors and instincts of one. No one needs to slam anyone else on this forum for giving their opinion and some very good advice. Just remember that when he relaxes for the hose, reward him by stopping.

05-13-2008, 02:05 PM
2manyminis Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 98	They most certainly need to respect you, but at the same time, shouldn't you learn to swim BEFORE you start diving? Maybe this little guy needs to learn how to stand tied first, maybe he needs more ground work in leading & handling- maybe he has sweet itch or some other skin allergy that it HURTS him to brush. Since he's not my horse, I am just saying that maybe there are underlying problems we do not see, since we aren't there, hands on. I don't agree with the hose issue, but that's MY opinion, I don't have to agree, & I didn't slam any one, if you noticed, I refrained for making a comment on it. If it works for you, great, I have other ways & I have never had an issue bathing my horses once they learned to stand tied. What I was saying had anyone bothered to read was that in the WRONG hands, this probably wasn't a good idea!

05-13-2008, 05:24 PM
SunnyKS Greenbroke Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,653	Well Foxy did say he doesn't wiggle too much when tied so I took that to mean he had learned how to tie, but she did say he was naughty when brushed and handled in general (if I understood right). If more ground work is needed to help that then maybe some specific advice on ground work activities would be helpful for her. Does anyone have any suggestions? BTW are there pictures of this eledged problem child somewhere? You know Foxy here on HT a horse doesn't really exist until we see the picture! __________________