I need help with hoof

[Sirita_88]

n/m me...

[BarnBum]

I wouldn't think it would be navicular if this all started after the horse being trimmed too small. Are you sure that longing him is good, alot of stress on that inside leg/hoof when going in circles --- alot of extra weight on that sore foot I guess is what I am trying to get at. What about just hand walking.

If you can't find pulses in the hoof, he isn't getting circulation/blood flow down there- they would really concern me.

Good luck, I know you are on pins and needles with this.

[AlbertaGirl]

Don't be so hard on yourself, either it was there or it wasn't... all you did was prove that it still was .

Have you tried an equine chiropractor? If you have access to a good one, I'd definetely be giving that a try before the vet again. If they can't figure it out/give you some insight, THEN I'd try the vet again.

Good luck!

[Sirita_88]

BarnBum,
You are right, longeing him isn't a good idea. I just took him to the roundpen to see him trot, but got carried away when he kicked me.

AlbertaGirl,

We have a great chiro, as a matter of fact he came out a few weeks ago but that was right after the vet and I didn't want to mess anything up. I seriously thought he was worth a shot (when appointment was made) I should have gotten him done while he was here...

[redboy]

I hate to sound negative, BUT, I think your description of his lameness does resemble navicular disease.
Contracted heels,small feet, on and off again lameness, moving off sound after a nerve block, resting and coming back sound, but then going lame again, short strided, AND testing positive on the outside of the front foot,...., Does he point one or both front toes?
What breed is he? What sports has he been used for in the past? Sometimes certain disciplines can cause a horse to develop navicular disease.
Quarter horses with small feet have a tendency to develop navicular.
I think you need to find a vet and farrier who are experienced in PREVENTATIVE CARE, so as to help manage this horse and extend his usefulness.
I've read that it is helpful to roll the front toes to help the horse avoid putting too much pressure for too long on the navicular bone in the foot.
Your farrier could also shoe with pads.
I REALLY hope I'm WRONG..., but, Good luck with him and I hope it turns out to be something minor instead. Redboy

[PaintsQH]

I know you said he was tested, but did the vet do an actual xray? Only way to really know what is going on. Its not your fault, you didnt know he was going to come up this lame. There is always hope for navicular so dont give up. My QH was lame for a year when I got him. Vet said might never be sound. He is a miracle horse as he is 100% sound. Keep us updated and get an xray if you already havent.

[redboy]

PS..., DON"T beat youself up because you took him in the round pen to watch him move..., you're just trying to diagnose the problem...., BUT, until you get some more defineitive answers, I wouldn't work him too hard, especially tight circles in the round pen. Too much turning tight may force him to compensate and bear weight on other areas...., and injure other muscles (in the shoulder area). With navicular, horses are trying to avoid too much concussion on the navicular bones in the feet. Good Luck, Redboy

[BarnBum]

Navicular care has come a long way these days. I have a 16.3 gelding that is navicualar and he is sound with bar shoes (he is up in SC) and isoxsuprine. Lamina Saver is an awesome supplement. Plus a change in diet will help navicular horses too.

Get some xrays, then go from there. It might not even be navicular.


HUGS, it will all be ok !!

[redboy]

I agree that navicular care has come a long way...., I would just start to research it, so as, to inform yourself, and understand it better, just to make sure you can be PROACTIVE (not reactive and worried), and be better prepared to discuss and trouble shoot with your vet and farrier, should that EVEN be the case. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER my friend, and it will be OK. RB

[Sirita_88]

Thank you guys for the advice. We didn't have xrays done because the vet truely thought it would be better to correct the shoeing problem and see if that helped. Well it didn't and he will go in for xrays.

The farrier we have now is a certified journeyman and also certifies journeymen so he know what he is doing. Last time he was out (4 1/2 weeks ago) he did do lots of corrective shoeing. Unfortunately his hooves were so hard he couldn't take off as much toe as he wanted.

Last night I soaked his hoof in ice water as best I could and when I examined his hoof when I pressed on the sole some water was squishing out, so maybe an abcess? Is it possible that his hoof was so hard the abcess couldn't rupture, and now that it's softened with magic cushion along with the pounding in the roundpen caused him to rupture it?

The farrier was due out monday but we are going to trailer him out to a friends where he is coming today. He will tell us what he thinks and if it's not an abcess I will take him to the vet before he comes monday.

PaintsQH, He is used for HUS. He Has had some jumping lessons for a few months before this but that is over with now. It's a shame he had such good form we were going to kick butt at Hunter hack. But I will settle for HUS if it keeps him sound. He is a Quarter Horse, 6 years old out of Zips Chocolate Chip and Barpasser bloodlines.
Stupid little feet....

[cindyf]

Originally Posted by redboy

I hate to sound negative, BUT, I think your description of his lameness does resemble navicular disease.
Contracted heels,small feet, on and off again lameness, moving off sound after a nerve block, resting and coming back sound, but then going lame again, short strided, AND testing positive on the outside of the front foot,...., Does he point one or both front toes?
What breed is he? What sports has he been used for in the past? Sometimes certain disciplines can cause a horse to develop navicular disease.
Quarter horses with small feet have a tendency to develop navicular.
I think you need to find a vet and farrier who are experienced in PREVENTATIVE CARE, so as to help manage this horse and extend his usefulness.
I've read that it is helpful to roll the front toes to help the horse avoid putting too much pressure for too long on the navicular bone in the foot.
Your farrier could also shoe with pads.
I REALLY hope I'm WRONG..., but, Good luck with him and I hope it turns out to be something minor instead. Redboy

I'm going to have to agree here with redboy. I belive this is navicular, it's very hard to diagnos even with xrays. My friend had a navicular horse and we found out by keeping him on the isoxsoprene helped him alot. Don't beat yourself up to hard over this, it's not like you did it to him. And I would have done the same in the round pen, disrespect is disrespect and he can't get away with it. Good luck!

[Morning_Mist]

I have a 22 year old Appy gelding who has had Navicular since he was 10 years old. With proper pain management and a great farrier he's doing wonderfully. He's always got a bit of a gimp, and has his bad days, but we still enjoy trail rides every now and then!

[Range]

Didn't you say you blocked the hoof and the lameness didn't get better? Did you try blocking farther up the leg? Could be ankle, could be tendons/ligaments, could be knee...could even be shoulder.

When you lunge him, sound going one way, but lame the other or all the time lame? Lame in a straight line?

Vet do flex tests?

Having just been through 5 months of undiagnosable lameness in my gelding, I'm going to suggest you get the flex tests, the blocking, and then the x-rays. We were convinced it was my gelding's old hoof injury - but all of the tests showed no. In fact, after all the tests by two different vets...we never did get a diagnosis. He just "came out of it."

Don't be quick to look at navicular without the blocks being effective and without the x-rays. A poor shoe job could've caused issues that just are going to take a bit to get through.

Also, let me recommend Anvil Brand's Kevin Bacon Grease for dry hooves. It can be applied all over the hoof - even the sole. I do it every other day when we're in drought conditions (as now) because I don't like to run a mud pit...pulls the shoes off.

[Sirita_88]

Originally Posted by Range

Didn't you say you blocked the hoof and the lameness didn't get better? Did you try blocking farther up the leg? Could be ankle, could be tendons/ligaments, could be knee...could even be shoulder.

When you lunge him, sound going one way, but lame the other or all the time lame? Lame in a straight line?

Vet do flex tests?

Having just been through 5 months of undiagnosable lameness in my gelding, I'm going to suggest you get the flex tests, the blocking, and then the x-rays. We were convinced it was my gelding's old hoof injury - but all of the tests showed no. In fact, after all the tests by two different vets...we never did get a diagnosis. He just "came out of it."

Don't be quick to look at navicular without the blocks being effective and without the x-rays. A poor shoe job could've caused issues that just are going to take a bit to get through.

Also, let me recommend Anvil Brand's Kevin Bacon Grease for dry hooves. It can be applied all over the hoof - even the sole. I do it every other day when we're in drought conditions (as now) because I don't like to run a mud pit...pulls the shoes off.

We blocked his hoof and it DID get better. Not perfect, but MUCH better. He was flexed everywhere. He is much worse in one direction longeing.

Update: I took him over to the farrier. He said it looked like a classic abscess. Actually, he got off the trailer SOUND argh!!! We trotted him up and down a hill and was only slighty off once or twice. Farrier is convinced that what happened last night was probably an abscess although he couldn't find a hole. The stupid horse Didn't even test positive with the hoof pinchers .

Anyways, he said that he isn't convinced that that is the only thing going on though. He said that if he had navicular he would be constantly lame. However, it could be in the early stages. We are taking him up to the vet to get xrayed in a few hours. He isn't our normal vet as our horse vet is booked so he is JUST taking xrays. We are going to try to email the exrays to the farrier and/or we will take the xrays home to show the farrier on monday when he comes out to do our barn.

We will most likely take the xrays back to the equine specailist or send them to UT to get them looked at further if we can't see anything wrong.

Hopefully my horse is just a wuss and it's an abscess... But we'll see.....

[Range]

Hills, though, could be shoulder.

Let us know the results!

[Sirita_88]

The saga continues... Just came back from the vet. He just took xrays (ML and AP) Of both hooves. He isn't the normal vet (and NOT my first choice) and since it wasn't really an appointment he didn't really look at the xrays. However, I did ask if he saw anyting and all he said was "there is something up with the lateral views. But I would need an MRI before I could diagnose Navicular." Basically he wasn't going to tell me what he saw because I didn't pay for the diagnosis.

So, Farrier comes out monday to look at them and shoe accordingly. Then I will send the xrays to either my vet or UT... Haven't decided which.

But I looked at the xrays and I don't know much about the foot (haven't studied anatomy in a while). However I thought I saw a change in a small bone while I was in the car. Looked it up and sure enough it's the navicular bone.

So, I will try to see if I can scan the xrays and post them if anyone is good with this stuff to see what you guys see.

[InTheIrons]

i have had many people tell me the only time horses will absolutely refuse to put weight on a hoof is when it has an abcess. what i would do is pack the hoof with drawing sab with a sponge or poltice with brown paper and wrap it with vet wrap for 24 hours for 3 days and see if you have an abcess hole. this will help if there is an abcess and if not there will be no harm done. this remedy speeds the abcess process up by coaxing it towards the bottom to "pop" it and get air to it. if you see an abcess hole began soaking the foot in epson salt and very warm (tolerable) water to help clense the bacteria.

if it was my horse thats what i would do before spending $200+ in vet bills and xrays

[Sirita_88]

eek broken links

[leslie645]

Did he block out at the heel?

[GreyDot]

I don't see much on the AP (front-to-back) view, but on the lateral (from the side), where you can actually see the navicular, there is a little more spotty darkening on the left than on the right, even allowing for the vast difference in contrast between the two films, although the margin doesn't look bad. I think that's why he said 'there's something up' but did not give anything definite. He may also be looking at the spacing in the joint. They're not wonderful views, and it's hard to say without having the film 6 inches from my nose. Really, it would be best for your regular vet to have a look at the actual films.

I agree with IntheIrons, though, try soaking the foot in epsom salts to foment any possible abscess, and see how that goes.