Horse Forum
Home Forum Home Search Horses for Sale Other ClassifiedsNEW! Post an Ad Help

Go Back   Horsetopia Forum > Horse Advice > Hoof Talk
Note: Forum logins are completely separate
from your Horsetopia classifieds account or wishlist.
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-07-2012, 03:52 PM  
Newborn Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tn
Posts: 34
Flat Feet

So I was looking to buy a gelding, but he had 2 flat feet (his 2 front feet) his back legs were pefrect.. The lady said he haden't foundered, and there wasn't any sign of flares. But I was worried about him getting stone brusing, and becoming lame. I wouldn't want to shoe him, because I believe it would only worsend the problem. I was thinking about riding him w/ hoof boots. What are your opinions on boots, and flat feet? And how hard is it to find a boot for a flat footed horse?
Copenhagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 04:30 PM  
Weanling Member
 
walkinthewalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 321
My 24 yo TWH, in my avatar, and who has been with me since a coming 3 yo is flat-footed on the front.

I always kept him shod during riding season because of the ouchies.

He was diagnosed with Equine Metabolic Syndrome five years ago and had to have a massive change in diet.

I can't believe how the change in diet toughened his hooves. I let my horses in the yard a lot. My jaw dropped to the ground when I asked Duke to "get to the barn" at supper time and he hit a lick 40 feet straight down the gravel drive without missing a beat.

He couldn't have done that before I changed his diet. That diet means absolutely not grains and no soy. Plenty of quality grass hay.

So here he is with metabolic issues, thankfully has never foundered, but I wouldn't think his hooves would be tougher now than they've ever been.

Point-being, keep the horse on a good diet. Unless you're really hard trail riding to where the horse needs grain, a good ration balancer with a vit/min supplement should be beneficial

If you don't want to shoe the horse, do wear boots on him because soring him up in rough terrain just to say he's barefoot is not the thing to do
walkinthewalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 06:41 PM  
Newborn Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tn
Posts: 34
Awesome. Thank you. I'll keep it in mind. so, you remove the shoes durring the winter months? And what about wet seasons?

Only grass, and grass hay?

He's also a qrt horse, if that changes anything, lol.
Copenhagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 08:06 PM  
Started
 
Siren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,221
My horse supposedly has fairly flat feet (from the TB side of things) and can have trouble with flares if I am not careful and if the farrier is not paying attention but I usually make sure to mention it to them. I have had her for almost a year now and she has never, ever been lame because of them. She is kept outside 24/7 and even on the crappy icey ground, she has never bruised or been sore *knocks on wood*. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a relatively flat footed horse , to a degree, because I think that it can be managed with good diet and plain common sense. If the feet are really misshapen and super flat, it's another story, I suppose, but if it's a reasonable amount, I wouldn't have a problem.
__________________
"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Siren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 06:14 AM  
Started
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 2,752
Flat feet can be helped by shoeing, and not just to limit bruising of the sole. My horse came back from a lease and his front feet were in worse shape than usual (his usual isn't so great!). After 4 shoeings with our farrier, plus the lousiest wall growing out (he had been getting a different hoof supplement which didn't help him at all), he actually has some concavity back in his front feet. I'm not a farrier, so I'm not sure exactly what my farrier has done to encourage it, but there's a definite difference in his feet.
sfl89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 06:51 AM  
Bombproof Member
 
Lady_MCSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Shytown, IL
Posts: 8,450
I have my first pair of boots on order ... so I'll know more in a few weeks.

Edited to add: Easyboot Epic. Wanted to get Easyboot Trail but they don't make them big enough for clydie feet.
http://www.easycareinc.com/our_boots...boot_epic.aspx
__________________
"Human, we'll get along just fine once you realize that I'm the one training you." --Equinonymous
Lady_MCSE is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 08:23 AM  
Halter broke
 
jagradar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 93
Flat Feet

My 13 yr OTTB has flat front feet. I resisted shoeing him for 2 years and while he did not founder he did get some bruises. The condition worsened when winter temps made the ground harder. I finally gave in to shoeing. I found an excellent farrier who was expertly familiar, and my OTTB now wears padded shoes. I call them his 'orthopedic' shoes. He really is a different horse now. His feet are fine with no bruising and he is excellent on trails. Before the shoes he would sort of pussy foot around and be side stepping anything he felt might hurt him. Thats all changed. It has been six months now and I have never regretted putting shoes on him...Johnny
__________________
"There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man" - Winston Churchill
jagradar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 09:11 AM  
Bombproof Member
 
Smilie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Alberta canada
Posts: 8,617
Send a message via AIM to Smilie
While there might be a small genetic component to flat feet, in most cases there is also a pathological component, called "distal decent'


Dr. Bowker and his team of researchers at MSU have confirmed what many insightful farriers suspected all along. The horse was never intended to hang from the laminae. The hoof walls, soles, bars and frogs are supposed to work in unison to support the horse. Trimming and shoeing practices that force the hoof walls to bear all of the force of impact create more constant stress than the laminae were ever intended to withstand. Add to this the constant stress of landing from jumps, or toe first landings throughout life caused by weak, underdeveloped frogs and digital cushions: The result is a gradual downward movement of P3 (relative to the coronet) over time. This is remarkably common, but seldom recognized until the horse finally becomes lame.

That's why so many horse's hooves seem to get longer as they age. Our predecessors knew this at some level. It's hard to find an old shoeing text that doesn't recommend barefoot periods in the "off-season" to "drive up the quick". What they were actually doing was driving up P3, relative to the coronet. As we have shifted away from this old standard and back to back shoeing has become increasingly common, it has gotten very difficult to find mature horses that do not have much of the pastern buried within the hoof capsule.

Once you learn to look for it, you will spot it to varying degrees everywhere. The most accurate way, of course, is by taking lateral radiographs with markers that stop at the hairline. In a lateral radiograph, the hairline should be level with or even distal to the top of P3 (extensor process). You can, however, learn to readily spot distal descent of P3 in the field with the trained eye.

The collateral grooves along the frog, are very consistent in their distance to the sole's corium (unless subsolar abscessing is present). This makes them an extremely reliable landmark for determining sole thickness (or the distance P3 is off the ground). If you visualize the natural vault of the sole's corium and you understand that the bottom of the collateral groove is consistently about a 1/2 inch away from the corium, you can get a clear estimate of how deep the sole is covering the rest of its corium.

Basically, you look for the height the collateral groove is being lifted off the ground (or the plane of the shoe) by the outer band of sole adjacent to the white line. In a horse with a 1/16th inch thick sole, the collateral groove at the apex of the frog will be lifted off the ground very little or none at all. When the same horse builds adequate (1/2 to 3/4 inch) sole thickness under the outer periphery of P3, the collateral grooves will be lifted 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch off the ground by the outer band of sole. They will be the bottom of the "bowl" of natural solar concavity.

I just copied part of the article, but it gives some of the pathology involved in a 'flat footed horse' The coffin bone and dorsel hoof wall still will be correctly aleigned on the x-rays, but the entire bony column , including of course, P3 has migrated lower down into the hoof capsule, resulting in flat feet and thin soles, and often a longer hoof capsule.
__________________
Great horses are born, not made, we only put on the refinement[/IMG]
Smilie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 12:24 PM  
Pasture Pet
 
EquineAlberta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,451
I used to own a flat footed TB. He would get footsore in the summer months, so I put Epona Horse shoes on him with the mesh pads and hoof packing. By the end of summer he had MUCH more concavity to his feet, and his feet remained in much better shape. I think the shoes in this case really helped not only keep him comfortable, but also to encourage/allow for the growth needed to create a better shaped hoof long term.
EquineAlberta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 12:51 PM  
Started
 
Danni L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,210
we had an extremely flat footed arab x qh gelding. I think his genetics were not the greatest and he probably wasn't trimmed properly when young. Good diet and proper trimming managed it well. when we were doing endurance and he needed to be on gravel alot we put shoes on.

Willow has thin soles and cant be ridden on gravel or rocks at all barefoot on her fronts. When we ride in the mountains or lots of gravel she gets shod.
__________________
Docs Sonata Dream- 2010 Appaloosa Filly
Regal Ladybird- 1998 arabian Mare
Dublin - 2014 Anglo Arab Colt
Danni L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 01:26 PM  
Bombproof Member
 
Smilie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Alberta canada
Posts: 8,617
Send a message via AIM to Smilie
Quote:
Originally Posted by EquineAlberta View Post
I used to own a flat footed TB. He would get footsore in the summer months, so I put Epona Horse shoes on him with the mesh pads and hoof packing. By the end of summer he had MUCH more concavity to his feet, and his feet remained in much better shape. I think the shoes in this case really helped not only keep him comfortable, but also to encourage/allow for the growth needed to create a better shaped hoof long term.
Yes, shod that way (with the packing for sole support ), you get the same effect as barefoot rehabilative trim, and used along with hoofboots and pads-mainly allowing the sole to growth depth and concavity , by taking some of the load off of the walls and supporting the sole and coffin bone.
Danni, by just shoing your horse by loading the hoofwalls, you are not going to make any progress, far as sole depth and concavity
__________________
Great horses are born, not made, we only put on the refinement[/IMG]
Smilie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 02:02 PM  
Coming two
 
paintedpastures's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,942
I believe the farrier work has alot to do with it,although some horses are just more genetically predisposed.My old mare I would have classified as flat footed.I never had much trouble with her in her younger years,but upward of 12yrs old she showed indications of being flat footed,hooves that spread out little concavity & pron to getting stone bruising.She developed underrun heels long toes etc. there was a couple winters she had a hard time navigating her way across the yard,she was so ouchy on hard ground.We had to put shoes with pads on her.She had different farriers over the years I guess some obviously better than others.One of the good farriers had her backed up & her feet looking normal took him several trims to get her that way,but then she went to not having any troubles.I mainly had my horses barefoot but over the years she had to wear shoes on & off due to her tenderness on hard ground.When her feet were trimmed nice she never needed shoes. We moved & had to get new farrier,again she went back to her old underrun flat feet & having troubles again.After a few different farriers found one that trimmed her correctly again.He did her for a couple years till he got hurt & hunt was on for a decent farrier again.Everytime she had poor farrier work her feet would loose there shape & with her advanced age & developing arthritis it would hinder her yet again. Luckliy for the last few years of her life I found a skilled farrier again & she had decent feet.
Just believe there is something to be said for good farrier work,in her 30yrs of life I afraid I only count on 1 hand ones that did a decent job
paintedpastures is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 09:06 PM  
Bombproof Member
 
Smilie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Alberta canada
Posts: 8,617
Send a message via AIM to Smilie
Hi PaintedP.
Of course the farrier work has alot to do with it. If the farrier respects that live sole and lets it build, backs off the toes and keeps the heels under the horse, you have what Dr Bowker refers to the Physiological trim. if you read the part of the article that I copied in my former post, you will see that this helps to prevent distal decent
On the other hand, if the soles are carved out, walls allowed to become long, the support to the coffin bone is under mined, and you will have a horse like your mare, that becomes increasingly tender as P3 becomes situated lower in the hoof capsule, thus amount of sole under the coffin bone, becomes less and less
That's the entire point of how tender flat footed horses are created, rather than born
__________________
Great horses are born, not made, we only put on the refinement[/IMG]
Smilie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 09:30 PM  
Coming two
 
paintedpastures's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
Hi PaintedP.
Of course the farrier work has alot to do with it. If the farrier respects that live sole and lets it build, backs off the toes and keeps the heels under the horse, you have what Dr Bowker refers to the Physiological trim. if you read the part of the article that I copied in my former post, you will see that this helps to prevent distal decent
On the other hand, if the soles are carved out, walls allowed to become long, the support to the coffin bone is under mined, and you will have a horse like your mare, that becomes increasingly tender as P3 becomes situated lower in the hoof capsule, thus amount of sole under the coffin bone, becomes less and less
That's the entire point of how tender flat footed horses are created, rather than born
Just Find it depressing that so many farriers can't trim like that,or take the time to....
paintedpastures is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 12:51 AM  
Newborn Member
 
Trinity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 22
Hmm, I was going to comment, but Smilie has it covered

Flat feet can typically be improved so long as there is no internal damage. Sometimes, horses can have damage to the edge of the coffin bone that will not allow concavity to ever fully return. X rays can tell you alot in that case.

Most flat feet, I have been able to make better and even completely recover. There have been a couple that will not ever be right again. I wish I had the X rays to prove it, but I suspect damage to P3 or possibly even the solar vascular supply in each case.
Trinity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 02:24 PM  
Newborn Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tn
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
Hmm, I was going to comment, but Smilie has it covered

Flat feet can typically be improved so long as there is no internal damage. Sometimes, horses can have damage to the edge of the coffin bone that will not allow concavity to ever fully return. X rays can tell you alot in that case.

Most flat feet, I have been able to make better and even completely recover. There have been a couple that will not ever be right again. I wish I had the X rays to prove it, but I suspect damage to P3 or possibly even the solar vascular supply in each case.
I thought it was from years of over grown bars, or collapsed souls. His feet appeared to be normal looking, just big, not flaired any where, and they weren't really long in the toe either. His frog, and buttress were also rather good looking. And the water line/ white line was in good shape as well. I never seen nothin like it, to be honest, lol. If his back feet weren't so much smaller, I wouldn't have even noticed.
Maybe his back feet were contracted? I didn't look at them, but they did seem a little longer, almost as if he was shod in the back only. Lol.
Copenhagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 05:04 AM  
Coming two
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,602
Might be just retained sole, then again it could be a sinker ( a horse with distal decent of the bony column). In my experience, sinkers generally have a pathological cause. As such they normally need a good experienced farrier until the pathological issue is resolved.

Flat feet however, are a phenomenon that is being bred into our horses by unscrupulous breeders who breed for every trait except soundness. JMO

Hope that helps
David
__________________


"If you see your stirrups slap together above the horn, you're probably bucked off". Dave Stamey.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

  Horsetopia Forum > Horse Advice > Hoof Talk


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dragging hind feet XXSundanceXX Training 15 01-19-2010 01:19 PM
Question for Farriers - 2 Farriers $265 and horses feet are tender :-z Quilting1 Hoof Talk 9 07-31-2009 10:59 AM
Tips for picking up feet? Crookedblaze General Horse Advice 8 06-06-2008 04:22 PM
feet too short, solutions? dreamcleaner Hoof Talk 2 06-14-2007 03:27 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:12 PM.


Board Powered by vBuletin ® Copyright © 2000 - 2007 Jel Soft

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0