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Old 08-28-2009, 06:53 PM  
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poor thing has his navicular bone and coffin bone coming through the bottom. imagine you standing on your bones and walking around wow.... poor thing
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:05 PM  
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I knew a 21hh Percheron that this exact thing happened to. After tons of care, his hoof grew back and he is perfectly sound. However, that horse was only 5 and of otherwise good health. In this poor ole guys case, I can't say what I would do.


I also had a 8 yro QH gelding that I rescued and his hoof on the rear had abcessed and I went to get him a week later and his hoof fell off and had a knub come in behind it. I was in awe at the time this was a first for me. Well with a few months of care he had enough hoof to get around ok. I rode him for 6yrs before he started having issues so I retired him to a 7yro girl that rode around her house, He was 28 last I heard. But with the age of this poor guy I would agree with the majority. Let him go...
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:36 PM  
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Wow. I'm totally choked-up and in tears.

Having loved and cared for a chronic laminitis/founder pony for 15 years I can honestly say that a case like this is my worst nightmare.

. . . and after fifteen years of caring for my pony, I'm still of two minds for this particular case . . .

One: Let this poor horse go. It's time to go when the bad days out-number the good.

Two: Hang in there long enough to learn how to help the next horse with this problem

Yes, I know this is a wishy-washy, fence-sitting response . . . having lived a situation so close to this for so long has clouded my judgment . . . so maybe we should not be so quick to judge those involved here.
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:41 PM  
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P.S. My pony lived to the age of 37. When his bad days outnumbered his good days, he walked on 4 feet to his grave site to be euthanized. Twenty-something is not all that old for horses these days.
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:46 PM  
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Having loved and cared for a chronic laminitis/founder pony for 15 years I can honestly say that a case like this is my worst nightmare.
So do you think that is what caused two sock's hoof to fall off (so weird just to type those words together!)? I was trying to think of what condition could make this happen. If it was founder/laminitis doesn't that mean that the other hooves are in danger too? Sorry if these are dumb questions, I have yet to deal with major hoof problems (knocks on wood).
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:05 PM  
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The hoof is a delicate creature. There are many things that can cause it to slough off. The major ones are an injury that caused a lack of sufficient blood to the hoof and severe and/or chronic founder.

Typically, you would notice a "looseness" around the coronet band and sugardine paste works wonders to help the hoof heel without sloughing.

In this instance, the presence of the coffin bone having sunk through the sole makes me believe laminitis/founder was the cause.

Which would be another reason he's still so thin. Can't pour feed to a chronic founder case.

At 25, this horse's feet will not grow very rapidly. Not at all. With the coffin bone almost entirely protruding from the sole, I believe it is quite painful. There is an extreme risk of infection with the laminae being exposed.

For me, I would euthanize. Knowing the pain of the degree of rotation and dropping of the coffin bone and the slow growth and recovery of the hoof at his age, as well as his current weight and his inability to get around to graze with his foot like that....well....it just doesn't seem fair to him.

But yes, a horse CAN recover from a sloughed hoof with lots of consistent and good care. One has to be quite dedicated to see it through.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:08 PM  
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Thanks for the info range! very informative.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:17 PM  
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Although I agree with the majority on this horse, I think he needs to be put down, my next question is not straight off the bat intended to flame the rescue....

If they have had this horse since 5/10/09 and this hoof problem started on 8/24/09...thats 3 1/2 months this horse has been in their care. Ummm....don't most founder cases/abcesses progress pretty quickly? What I am saying is....would it be feasible to say that the current caregivers of this horse actually caused this founder/abcess, or at least left it untreated for the hoof to suddenly "fall off?"

I worked for a large animal vet for 4 years, dealing with people out in the sticks...leaving founder and abcess cases untreated for weeks, and still never saw a horse lose a whole hoof
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:22 PM  
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Yes, Range, you described it perfectly.

I would guess that this was a chronic founder case. Founder often produces (multiple, reoccurring) abscesses and I'm guessing that's what contributed to the total sloughing of the hoof in this case. (?) Aside from the rotation, sinking and (probable) degeneration of the coffin bone.

I can remember days when we soaked Pork Chop's (appropriately named for a founder pony, yes?) feet in buckets of epsom salts for hours at a time. BOTH feet, and yes, he stood for it! And the gallons of "sugar-dine" we applied and the heart-bar shoes and hoof resections (and this was before the days where we started talking about Cushings in horses)

. . . and still his good days out-numbered his bad days and we lived in fear of him sloughing his hooves.

Every case is different . . . maybe these people are losing sight of what is best for the horse in their efforts to save him. . .

. . . or maybe they know that his good days still out-number his bad days.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:27 PM  
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luvridin - I'm also a former vet-tech (15 years experience) and founder/laminitis can occur/reoccur for no apparent reason, even with the best of care and under the most knowledgeable supervision. It's not always the obvious carbohydrate overload that causes laminitis - there are just too many variables to put it down to backyard ignorance.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:42 PM  
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If this horse would come into our place we would most certainly euthanize. The age of the horse would make it regrow so slow that once it is grown back the other leg will go bad. I think it's too late for this poor baby.

But, that's what we would do...
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:48 PM  
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If this horse would come into our place we would most certainly euthanize. The age of the horse would make it regrow so slow that once it is grown back the other leg will go bad. I think it's too late for this poor baby.

But, that's what we would do...
Good, atleast there are some rescues out there that still use their brain.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:59 PM  
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Wow! I had never heard of a horse losing an entire hoof like that! That must be horribly painful for the poor horse, and combine that with his age and condition, I would have to agree with the majority here - I think it's time for them to put an end to this poor guys suffering and euthanize.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:21 PM  
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Poor poor baby

That reminds me of a cat that came in today to finally be euthanized. This poor cat was going through renal failure, so incredibly skinny it had no muscle tone at all. The animal just looked awful. It hadn't eaten for at least a week. A vet tech and I went into the room to give it some telazol (anesthetize prior to euth to make it easier on the animal) when we also noticed there was blood pus and cat litter all over the poor guy. The poor cat had major uclers on its jaw that obviously prevented it from eating. The tech got a better look than I did, and apparently it looked as if the jaw was about to fall off. It was seriously the most horrifying thing I had seen. And the poor little guy was still feisty. He still tried to get us when we poked him . The owner opted to leave prior to the euth, and had told another tech that she tried to avoid going down to the lower level of her house, assumingly where the cat lived so that she didn't have to see him.

I would put the poor guy down. That has to be pain beyond belief.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:30 PM  
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That is so horrible ... so incrediably horrible ... I think it's all a matter of ethics. Treating animals and treating people are two different things, and some people don't get that. Telling a person to stay off their feet for a while is one thing, but it's not like you can tell a horse to stay off his feet for a while! He must be in a lot of pain. I can't even imagine, but honestly, I'm kinda on the fence with this one. Horses go lame and get abcesses and cracked feet all the time, and those must be extremely painful as well. I think that because this is very graphic, some people see it as much more horrid and painful. Maybe it is, who am I to say. But other lamenesses are painful, too. I think that the decision should be based on the horse. He doesn't seem all that healthy, IMO, but if he's just underweight and has no other issues than these two, then I'd give it a shot. Especially if he's the type of horse who would stand for treatment and if they could keep him immobilized (to a point), and sanitary. However, if he's not healthy, then you have to do what's best. Although I am an animal lover, and especially a horse lover, obviously!, sometimes death can be a blessing ... IMO.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:33 PM  
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that just makes me want to cry just knowing how much pain that horse has to be in. i love horses with all of my heart and if i knew of a way that i could save them with them having a very great recovery i would do it but i dont even know it could be possible with a horse whose hoof just basically fell off. i dont think it would be worth it cause he would probly not even be close to normal when he did heal and would probly constantly be in some sort of pain.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:35 PM  
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OMG...That is sooo horrible. How can people let a horse get to be like that. Bless those people for bringing him and and trying to care for him.....although he def needs to be put to rest. That poor old boy He dosnt deserve to live like that. He needs to cross the rainbow bridge and be put out of misery. IMO
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:55 PM  
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I would definately put him down.

But geeze, if they are going to try and keep the poor guy alive they should nerve him or something. I mean a horse should not have to suffer that much!! I know nerving is not the answer, but it's better than that horse being in that much pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:27 PM  
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luvridin - I'm also a former vet-tech (15 years experience) and founder/laminitis can occur/reoccur for no apparent reason, severe case even with the best of care and under the most knowledgeable supervision. It's not always the obvious carbohydrate overload that causes laminitis - there are just too many variables to put it down to backyard ignorance.
I am well aware that laminitis can be caused by a wide variety of things, but have never seen such an extreme case just come up out of the blue without warning...but I never claimed to have seen it all. This is why I said I wasn't trying to flame the rescue right off the bat, I just couldn't find a more delicate way to pose the question.

Even if this horse had recurrent laminitis there are usually signs of past abcesses/rotation. I've just never heard of a horse go from normal or near normal to walking on a bare coffin bone overnight, as happened under the rescue's care. Just doesn't do much for their reputation, preventable or not.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:41 PM  
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Ok let me jump in here and defend these guys. This rescue has been around for years not just some back yard group. They work with a very good vet in their area and have saved alot of horses that most poeple would have giving up on. Trust me they are doing everything possible to make sure he is not in pain and he is getting around the clock care. If they think and the vet will be the first to say lets put him down then they will do what is best. You guys are jumping all over them.
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