Rocket's progress journal

thumpersgirl · 09-03-2008, 01:44 PM

I forgot to update my last post on Rocket so I'm starting a new one. For those who've not read about him - Rocket is a 10 year old American Saddlebred. I've owned him for 3 years now and have struggled from day one to put weight on him. His teeth have been done, he is wormed every 8 weeks (used to worm every 6) and the vet was out and checked him out last Fall. When I first got him, he was about 700 pounds and the lady I got him from had already put close to 100 pounds on him. I've not gotten any from yet this week. The last time I taped him, he was 930 pounds. I'll be heading over there in a bit so will tape him again and get current pictures.

Raaslita · 09-03-2008, 06:08 PM

Well he looks like he has put some weight on .. But I can see your frustration in not having had more weight put on by now.. 3 years is a long time....

What are you feeding him. supplements? what is his excercise routine (if any)??.. Give us a little more info on the nutrition, maybe we could give some pointers..

BTW he is a very nice looking horse, I love his coloring..I have a soft spot for dark/black bays...

cameo05 · 09-03-2008, 07:13 PM

He is very pretty and yes he has gained weight. I know it is a constant battle sometimes with weight and you think there is nothing else to do for them. Sometimes it does take forever, but you see improvement. I see improvement. Good luck on the weight gaining issues and Don;t worry he will come along.

thumpersgirl · 09-03-2008, 08:12 PM

Raaslita, right now he is getting Safe Choice, Beet Pulp, some oats and minerals. I just started switching him over to the Safe Choice and have been upping his beet pulp over the last 3 weeks.

As for a work routine, we trail ride him 2-4 times a week. I don't do any pen work with him.

Cameo, thank you! I'm glad someone sees improvement in him. It's hard for me to see it.

I forgot to mention also - on August 15th, I had a massage therapist out to work on him. His shoulders were out of place and she readjusted him. I'm hoping now that he'll start muscling up a bit better.

**Orchid** · 09-03-2008, 08:31 PM

How many pounds of each type of feed is he getting per day, and in how many feedings? How is your pasture, or is he on hay?

Is he on probiotics, or have you tried them in the past?

I feel your pain, it is so frustrating to have a horse that is hard to put weight on!

thumpersgirl · 09-03-2008, 08:33 PM

thumpersgirl · 09-03-2008, 08:40 PM

Orchid, he's getting 2-1/2 pounds of Safe Choice, 2 pounds of Beet Pulp and a 1/2 scoop of oats right now. We're slowly upping the Beet Pulp and Safe Choice yet.

On a side note, we now have a TSC available to us - opened today. If anyone knows of any great products they carry, I'm all ears. I have access to a Purina mill, a Nutrena dealer and TSC now.

**seerfarm** · 09-03-2008, 08:42 PM

You can see he has gained some weight, I know you must be absolutely frustrated however.

I second the Probiotics if you haven't tried them already.

Has he had a blood panel run? I would question possible anemia.

For obvious reasons I only talk diets via PM.

thumpersgirl · 09-03-2008, 08:47 PM

Forgot to answer the Probiotics question - I did have him on them for about 6 months but he's not currently on them. I was considering going back to them.

Seer, I asked my vet to run a blood panel on him and she looked him over, did his teeth, asked questions and told me not to bother with it.

What would cause him to be anemic? Also, please PM away if you have any ideas as to a great diet for him.

ETA, forgot to answer the pasture/hay question also (sorry Orchid, I did read your reply really!). The pasture isn't in great shape as we've not had much rain the last couple months but the horses get free choice hay 352 days a year. The hay is a timothy mixture.

Good grief, I am forgetful tonight - his grain is divided into 2 feedings per day.

**Orchid** · 09-03-2008, 09:30 PM

If it were me, I would eliminate the oats, stay where you are with the beet pulp and slowly up the Safechoice to the recommended amount per day for his ideal weight for a horse in moderate exercise. That means instead of feeding a pound per 100 pounds of body weight at his current weight, you would feed a pound per 100 pounds at his goal weight. If at that amount he does not start to gain at an acceptable rate, then I would add some corn oil as well. I know some don't like it, but I have had great success with corn oil.

Continue with the free choice hay, of course. But I do have to ask what happens on the other 13 days a year?

I would also start using the probiotics again - especially giving him a dose of the probiotic paste right after deworming.

thumpersgirl · 09-03-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orchid

Continue with the free choice hay, of course. But I do have to ask what happens on the other 13 days a year?

I would also start using the probiotics again - especially giving him a dose of the probiotic paste right after deworming.

Oh man! I can't believe I did that. Would you believe I graduated from college in May with a 4.0? Common sense isn't my thing.

To answer your question, they get hay those 13 days also.

I have to run into town on Friday so will get some Probios then. That will give me an excuse to go check out the new TSC.

**gbarmranch** · 09-04-2008, 05:30 AM

I agree with Heather's advice.. the corn oil should help, and you can add some Empower to his feed if they have it.. or some calf manna.. slowly..

You may want to consider a treat once a day of some soaked alfalfa cubes.. be careful of the protein level though.. but I don't think a big coffee can would hurt ...

He may just be a very hard keeper.. we have had those and it is frustrating until you find the right mix that works..

thumpersgirl · 09-04-2008, 08:27 AM

I forgot to mention, he was getting Calf Manna. When I switched over to the Nutrena line, I got him their version which was All Stock Feed. He's getting that right now but I don't like it and I'm not seeing results from that one. I'm thinking I'll go back to Calf Manna.

Now that I'm fully functioning, let me see if I can remember what all he gets every day.

1/2 ounce of Red Cell 1x a day - going to up to 2x a day.
2-1/2 lbs of Safe Choice 1x a day - working up to the max which is 5 lbs a day.
1-1/2 lbs of soaked beet pulp 1x a day - working my way up on that one also.
1/2 lb of the All Stock Feed - going to go back to Calf Manna or Animax though.
6 Tums once a day.
I've cut him off of sweet feed (obviously).

He's not currently getting Probios, corn oil or alfalfa but I will pick some up on Friday. I have tried the corn oil in the past and he refused to eat the grain. We'll try again.

**gbarmranch** · 09-04-2008, 08:33 AM

Maybe mix it with the alfalfa.. A picky eater to boot.. you poor girl -

You have your hands full with that one..

His coat is shiny though.. so it really is more of a weight issue isn't it..

thumpersgirl · 09-04-2008, 08:38 AM

Thanks Val, I'll try that. Yes, he's a brat! He's not real impressed right now that he gets soaked beet pulp - he paws the bowl and tips it over.

**seerfarm** · 09-04-2008, 08:44 AM

Thumpersgirl...We spoke on this last night, but I think that the info I provided in regards to the Colonic Ulcers might be useful to others.

My theory is that due to major infestation of worms he had when Thumpersgirl got Rocket, he has damage to his colon in the form of Ulcers...Specifically Colonic Ulcers. Due to this he is not readily absorbing all the key nutrients that he needs to stay, not only thrifty but get that complete rounded healthy look. Our conversation noted that the RedCell has added in his energy and aided but not completely. My earlier consideration of Anemia, and the cause due to Colonic Ulcers. Anyone else interested in the info I have, please feel free to PM me.

This is said to affect about two-thirds of performance horses, but is not limited too. Overload of worm infestations, stress, and diet can also be adding factors for any horse. Remember folks...This is just A Personal Opinion.

You can’t do a colonoscopy on a horse, so this problem has been hidden from most practitioners. But colonic ulcers could easily explain a large percentage – perhaps the majority – of low-grade anemia.
What can you do? Obviously, if you want to get the best out of your horse, it won’t do to let them suffer from anemia-induced fatigue. But there are some perfectly natural formulations that can produce a dramatic resolution of colonic and gastric ulcers.

Oats have some remarkable properties, but you can’t get them by simply increasing oat intake. A quick look at horse feces will show that much of the oats come out intact. But a new process can extract specific ingredients from oats that have a beneficial effect on the digestive system, which can stop bleeding and cure most cases of anemia.

Specifically, oat oil contains polar lipids that line the gut and help to prevent bacterial attacks. Beta-glucan (another oat extract) is one of the most potent stimulators of the immune system known. This can also help your horse hold the bad bacteria at bay.

Amino acids, including glutamine and threonine, also support the immune system and help heal the gut. Specific yeast extracts also help by supporting the good bacteria and expelling the bad bacteria. A proper mix of these ingredients will provide powerful protection to your horse’s gut, stopping blood loss from both gastric and colonic ulcers.

thumpersgirl · 09-04-2008, 08:52 AM

Thanks Seer!

I was just thinking of e-mailing you and asking if I should put the part about oat oil in there. Since I'm going to look for oat oil, should I skip the corn oil?

The Safe Choice and All Stock Feed both have corn in them. I don't want to over due it with that. As I said earlier though, I'm going to go back to either Calf Manna or Animax instead of the All Stock Feed. I don't like it.

**Orchid** · 09-04-2008, 08:59 AM

thumper, you might want to re-check the feed levels on the SafeChoice. By my calculations, if you fed him the correct amount for a horse in moderate work, it would be one pound per 100 pounds of body weight per day - if you feel he should weigh 1100 pounds, then he should get 11 pounds per day, not 5.

Also thought I should add that corn and corn oil, while derived from the same plant (obviously), are really totally dissimilar. Corn is high in starches, while corn oil is pure fat. So you can't "overdo" corn with a combination of the two, although you can certainly feed too much of either one.

If you are going to use the oat oil, I would skip the corn oil or you could end up with some very oily poos! Ew!

**seerfarm** · 09-04-2008, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Orchid:
If you are going to use the oat oil, I would skip the corn oil or you could end up with some very oily poos! Ew!

Yep, what she said!

**gbarmranch** · 09-04-2008, 09:05 AM

Interesting info Seer... good to keep in mind on horses that don't gain weight..

If I could TG, I would send him a few of Peppy's fat cells..

that horse stays chubby on air.. so just the opposite issue with him..

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Huge bump on Rocket's neck!	Crookedblaze	Health & Nutrition	6	08-14-2008 12:18 PM
Josie's progress journal	VickiE	Training	4	11-06-2007 09:04 PM
Smokey' Progress Journal	ambrey	Training	23	09-28-2007 07:27 PM
Rocket's acting weird	Shiloveshorses	General Horse Advice	11	06-01-2006 05:46 PM

09-03-2008, 01:44 PM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,380	Rocket's progress journal I forgot to update my last post on Rocket so I'm starting a new one. For those who've not read about him - Rocket is a 10 year old American Saddlebred. I've owned him for 3 years now and have struggled from day one to put weight on him. His teeth have been done, he is wormed every 8 weeks (used to worm every 6) and the vet was out and checked him out last Fall. When I first got him, he was about 700 pounds and the lady I got him from had already put close to 100 pounds on him. I've not gotten any from yet this week. The last time I taped him, he was 930 pounds. I'll be heading over there in a bit so will tape him again and get current pictures. __________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs. Last edited by thumpersgirl : 09-26-2008 at 09:35 PM.

09-03-2008, 06:08 PM
Raaslita Weanling Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Moreno Valley, CA Posts: 349	Well he looks like he has put some weight on .. But I can see your frustration in not having had more weight put on by now.. 3 years is a long time.... What are you feeding him. supplements? what is his excercise routine (if any)??.. Give us a little more info on the nutrition, maybe we could give some pointers.. BTW he is a very nice looking horse, I love his coloring..I have a soft spot for dark/black bays... __________________ Life with out a horse, is not having a life.. RIP Littlebit 1997-2008,life without you will never be the same

09-03-2008, 07:13 PM
cameo05 Bombproof Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 8,694	He is very pretty and yes he has gained weight. I know it is a constant battle sometimes with weight and you think there is nothing else to do for them. Sometimes it does take forever, but you see improvement. I see improvement. Good luck on the weight gaining issues and Don;t worry he will come along. __________________

09-03-2008, 08:12 PM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,380	Raaslita, right now he is getting Safe Choice, Beet Pulp, some oats and minerals. I just started switching him over to the Safe Choice and have been upping his beet pulp over the last 3 weeks. As for a work routine, we trail ride him 2-4 times a week. I don't do any pen work with him. Cameo, thank you! I'm glad someone sees improvement in him. It's hard for me to see it. I forgot to mention also - on August 15th, I had a massage therapist out to work on him. His shoulders were out of place and she readjusted him. I'm hoping now that he'll start muscling up a bit better. __________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs.

09-03-2008, 08:31 PM
Orchid Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 9,805	How many pounds of each type of feed is he getting per day, and in how many feedings? How is your pasture, or is he on hay? Is he on probiotics, or have you tried them in the past? I feel your pain, it is so frustrating to have a horse that is hard to put weight on! __________________ Be thankful.

09-03-2008, 08:33 PM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,380	__________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs. Last edited by thumpersgirl : 09-26-2008 at 09:36 PM.

09-03-2008, 08:40 PM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,380	Orchid, he's getting 2-1/2 pounds of Safe Choice, 2 pounds of Beet Pulp and a 1/2 scoop of oats right now. We're slowly upping the Beet Pulp and Safe Choice yet. On a side note, we now have a TSC available to us - opened today. If anyone knows of any great products they carry, I'm all ears. I have access to a Purina mill, a Nutrena dealer and TSC now. __________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs.

09-03-2008, 08:42 PM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Portal, Ga Posts: 7,732	You can see he has gained some weight, I know you must be absolutely frustrated however. I second the Probiotics if you haven't tried them already. Has he had a blood panel run? I would question possible anemia. For obvious reasons I only talk diets via PM. __________________ "To know the road ahead, ask those coming back".

09-03-2008, 08:47 PM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,380	Forgot to answer the Probiotics question - I did have him on them for about 6 months but he's not currently on them. I was considering going back to them. Seer, I asked my vet to run a blood panel on him and she looked him over, did his teeth, asked questions and told me not to bother with it. What would cause him to be anemic? Also, please PM away if you have any ideas as to a great diet for him. ETA, forgot to answer the pasture/hay question also (sorry Orchid, I did read your reply really!). The pasture isn't in great shape as we've not had much rain the last couple months but the horses get free choice hay 352 days a year. The hay is a timothy mixture. Good grief, I am forgetful tonight - his grain is divided into 2 feedings per day. __________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs. Last edited by thumpersgirl : 09-03-2008 at 09:04 PM.

09-03-2008, 09:30 PM
Orchid Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 9,805	If it were me, I would eliminate the oats, stay where you are with the beet pulp and slowly up the Safechoice to the recommended amount per day for his ideal weight for a horse in moderate exercise. That means instead of feeding a pound per 100 pounds of body weight at his current weight, you would feed a pound per 100 pounds at his goal weight. If at that amount he does not start to gain at an acceptable rate, then I would add some corn oil as well. I know some don't like it, but I have had great success with corn oil. Continue with the free choice hay, of course. But I do have to ask what happens on the other 13 days a year? I would also start using the probiotics again - especially giving him a dose of the probiotic paste right after deworming. __________________ Be thankful.

09-04-2008, 05:30 AM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,218	I agree with Heather's advice.. the corn oil should help, and you can add some Empower to his feed if they have it.. or some calf manna.. slowly.. You may want to consider a treat once a day of some soaked alfalfa cubes.. be careful of the protein level though.. but I don't think a big coffee can would hurt ... He may just be a very hard keeper.. we have had those and it is frustrating until you find the right mix that works.. __________________ Quality FoundationQuarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Minds are like parachutes – they only function when open – Thomas Dewar

09-04-2008, 08:27 AM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,380	I forgot to mention, he was getting Calf Manna. When I switched over to the Nutrena line, I got him their version which was All Stock Feed. He's getting that right now but I don't like it and I'm not seeing results from that one. I'm thinking I'll go back to Calf Manna. Now that I'm fully functioning, let me see if I can remember what all he gets every day. 1/2 ounce of Red Cell 1x a day - going to up to 2x a day. 2-1/2 lbs of Safe Choice 1x a day - working up to the max which is 5 lbs a day. 1-1/2 lbs of soaked beet pulp 1x a day - working my way up on that one also. 1/2 lb of the All Stock Feed - going to go back to Calf Manna or Animax though. 6 Tums once a day. I've cut him off of sweet feed (obviously). He's not currently getting Probios, corn oil or alfalfa but I will pick some up on Friday. I have tried the corn oil in the past and he refused to eat the grain. We'll try again. __________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs.

09-04-2008, 08:33 AM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,218	Maybe mix it with the alfalfa.. A picky eater to boot.. you poor girl - You have your hands full with that one.. His coat is shiny though.. so it really is more of a weight issue isn't it.. __________________ Quality FoundationQuarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Minds are like parachutes – they only function when open – Thomas Dewar

09-04-2008, 08:38 AM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,380	Thanks Val, I'll try that. Yes, he's a brat! He's not real impressed right now that he gets soaked beet pulp - he paws the bowl and tips it over. __________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs.

09-04-2008, 08:44 AM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Portal, Ga Posts: 7,732	Thumpersgirl...We spoke on this last night, but I think that the info I provided in regards to the Colonic Ulcers might be useful to others. My theory is that due to major infestation of worms he had when Thumpersgirl got Rocket, he has damage to his colon in the form of Ulcers...Specifically Colonic Ulcers. Due to this he is not readily absorbing all the key nutrients that he needs to stay, not only thrifty but get that complete rounded healthy look. Our conversation noted that the RedCell has added in his energy and aided but not completely. My earlier consideration of Anemia, and the cause due to Colonic Ulcers. Anyone else interested in the info I have, please feel free to PM me. This is said to affect about two-thirds of performance horses, but is not limited too. Overload of worm infestations, stress, and diet can also be adding factors for any horse. Remember folks...This is just A Personal Opinion. You can’t do a colonoscopy on a horse, so this problem has been hidden from most practitioners. But colonic ulcers could easily explain a large percentage – perhaps the majority – of low-grade anemia. What can you do? Obviously, if you want to get the best out of your horse, it won’t do to let them suffer from anemia-induced fatigue. But there are some perfectly natural formulations that can produce a dramatic resolution of colonic and gastric ulcers. Oats have some remarkable properties, but you can’t get them by simply increasing oat intake. A quick look at horse feces will show that much of the oats come out intact. But a new process can extract specific ingredients from oats that have a beneficial effect on the digestive system, which can stop bleeding and cure most cases of anemia. Specifically, oat oil contains polar lipids that line the gut and help to prevent bacterial attacks. Beta-glucan (another oat extract) is one of the most potent stimulators of the immune system known. This can also help your horse hold the bad bacteria at bay. Amino acids, including glutamine and threonine, also support the immune system and help heal the gut. Specific yeast extracts also help by supporting the good bacteria and expelling the bad bacteria. A proper mix of these ingredients will provide powerful protection to your horse’s gut, stopping blood loss from both gastric and colonic ulcers. __________________ "To know the road ahead, ask those coming back".

09-04-2008, 08:52 AM
thumpersgirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,380	Thanks Seer! I was just thinking of e-mailing you and asking if I should put the part about oat oil in there. Since I'm going to look for oat oil, should I skip the corn oil? The Safe Choice and All Stock Feed both have corn in them. I don't want to over due it with that. As I said earlier though, I'm going to go back to either Calf Manna or Animax instead of the All Stock Feed. I don't like it. __________________ Some people are like Slinkies; they're good for nothing, but make you smile when you push them down a long flight of stairs.

09-04-2008, 08:59 AM
Orchid Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 9,805	thumper, you might want to re-check the feed levels on the SafeChoice. By my calculations, if you fed him the correct amount for a horse in moderate work, it would be one pound per 100 pounds of body weight per day - if you feel he should weigh 1100 pounds, then he should get 11 pounds per day, not 5. Also thought I should add that corn and corn oil, while derived from the same plant (obviously), are really totally dissimilar. Corn is high in starches, while corn oil is pure fat. So you can't "overdo" corn with a combination of the two, although you can certainly feed too much of either one. If you are going to use the oat oil, I would skip the corn oil or you could end up with some very oily poos! Ew! __________________ Be thankful.

09-04-2008, 09:03 AM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Portal, Ga Posts: 7,732	Originally posted by Orchid: If you are going to use the oat oil, I would skip the corn oil or you could end up with some very oily poos! Ew! Yep, what she said! __________________ "To know the road ahead, ask those coming back".

09-04-2008, 09:05 AM
gbarmranch Administrator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 29,218	Interesting info Seer... good to keep in mind on horses that don't gain weight.. If I could TG, I would send him a few of Peppy's fat cells.. that horse stays chubby on air.. so just the opposite issue with him.. __________________ Quality FoundationQuarter Horses http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Minds are like parachutes – they only function when open – Thomas Dewar