FYI: Horse Allergies and Vaccines

[GreyDot]

Wow, that is really very comprehensive!

[morgan]

We have 2 horses both get allergy shots. Both are allergic to different things. Theses shots are their saving grace. We still have horses that are allergic in the Summer time. that are not getting allergy shots and we use a variety of products to help releive the itching. Florida seems to be one of the worst areas for allergys.

[morgan]

In Florida we seem to have alot of Allergic horses. We have 2 on the Allergy shots and 1 that will probably have to tested and get the allergy shots.I too have tried every ointment , treatment , steriods{ laminitis is a big problem with the steriods} and antihistamines. It is very frustrating to deal with. When I had a stable in New England Iidon't remember seeing horses with this severe allergy problem. It seems the farther South you go the worse it gets. One horse [the one not on allergy shots] was on antihistamines and steriods was taken out of Florida to Oklahoma the allergies cleared up in days.
I've heard this called Florida fungus. Listerine washes help but don't cure it. The allergies definatley seem to be envirmental.

[Knightrider]

I just read this thread. Our old guy, Red Pepper, had such terrible allergies when we moved him from MD to FL that I thought we'd have to put him down. Like Tiki described, he rubbed himself raw and bloody. We tried all kinds of creams, rubs, and washes. Nothing helped. My farrier said he had a horse like that and kept him under a fan because the no-see-ums can't tolerate a breeze. He also put very fine screens in all his horse's windows. He said to start out with just the fan and see if that helped. It was like a miracle. After a year of keeping him under a fan all night, I was able to just put him under the fan at dawn and dusk and keep it under control.

But the best solution was to move away. We moved 150 miles north and he is completely cleared up. He has NO rubbed places on him here in N. Florida.

So, if you want a cheap possible solution, try a fan.

[TikiGator]

Originally Posted by Knightrider

So, if you want a cheap possible solution, try a fan.

Oh believe me.....if fan's worked I wouldn't have had to write this thread in the first place My stud was kept under 3 stall fans 24/7. Fly sheet, and a ton of fly spray. Nothing worked.

HOWEVER, for those of you who still may be having "summer itch" issues....there has been a new study out (lord wonders why vet's never say anything) saying that the majority of horses that suffer from summer itch also suffer from neck threadworms (NTWs). These are caused by biting flies and transmited into the horse thru fly bites. Symptoms include tail rubbing, mane rubbing, neck rubbing, sore spots under belly, and often times "nodes" that feel like marbles under the skin (those are the worms!)

The ONLY way to get rid of these is with a DOUBLE DOSE of Equimax, and then re-double-dose again in 2 weeks. Results have been phenomenal for those who have tried.

I have horses itching this summer that have NEVER been itchy or had allergies (including a horse a allergy tested last year that tested negative for everything). I just recently found out about this so last week i double-dosed everyone on my barn with Equimax. I will keep everyone posted on their progress. But I have some horses itching manes and tails that have never been bothered with summer itch. But if the culprit is NTWs, that would explain it!

SO, for those of you who have tried "everything" you may want to go ahead and double-dose deworm. It's worth a shot and certainly less expensive than some other treatments.

[oveywon]

Tiki, can you find a link to that research?? I'd like to discuss it with my Vet. That's very interesting.

[PaintsQH]

Would having them on a daily wormer keep threadworms under control? Boy, I feel for all the itchy horses and frustrated owners... I had one (1,uno)horse who had horrendous summer itch,sweat itch,whatever made her itch, and she was a walking scab. TWH.. Friends mustang would rub her mane, neck and tail raw, shake rattle N roll my barn (this is before it was covered, just a few lean to's) so bad you could see it move, LOL. I ended up using the dex in my TWH's grain daily. Made her fat, but no more itch. She has since moved to Gainsville with her itchy mustang friend and apparantly isnt a scab anymore. According to my friend I gave her to, it doesnt rain and there are no gnats up there I guess the cooler weather is what she needed.

[oveywon]

I've read onchorcerciasis, if that's the same as neck threadworms, does not produce seasonal symptoms (it's all year long itching). So if you're horse clears up every winter, I've been told it is likely not the problem. Also if your horse has been routinely wormed with an Ivermectin wormer throughout it's life, he is probably clear. I've also read, they take a LONG time to get rid of since the adults continue to produce the larvae which is what is primarily killed by the treatment.

I would love to see anything current because I pretty much dismissed this as a problem a couple of years ago, and it sounds like there is new information out there. I can't find it with google.

[TikiGator]

Originally Posted by oveywon

Tiki, can you find a link to that research?? I'd like to discuss it with my Vet. That's very interesting.

Horses-Onchocerciasis in Horses


REALLY long thread but very worth reading.......esp the links to the research articles...........
something to kill adult Onchocerca??? - Chronicle Forums


Here are some common questions that some of you may have:

#1 where do neck threadworms come from? from bug bites? or just eating off the ground? -- They are from gnats and the black biting flies.

#2 are they contagious from horse-to-horse? so if one horse has them, more than likely everyone else does as well? -- No, not contagious but probably much more prevalent than you think since every horse is being bitten by those critters.

#3 if a horse DID have these worms, wouldn't he be bad year-round? rather than improving in the winter months? -- Generally there is a decrease or elimination of symptoms in the winter.

[TikiGator]

Originally Posted by PaintsQH

Would having them on a daily wormer keep threadworms under control?

Oh no. I don't think daily wormer does much at all to be honest with you. But specifically with NTWs you must deworm with Equimax, Equiminth, Equimec, or Equest. It's the Ivermectin combined with the Praziquantel that does it....but it must be done with a much higher does than one would normally give for strongles, roundworms, etc.

Daily wormer is a whole nother thread by itself, but the newer research that has been coming out is giving more and more users a second thought on continuing. Many people believe that the worms become resistant to the Strongid (similar to fleas in dogs becoming resistant to Frontline or Advantage, etc). Also, many people like to give their horses a break from deworming, give their intestines time to recover from being medicated. There are other correlations between horses intestinal damage that have undergone colic surgery on strongid C daily and those not on it. Again, that's an entirely separate thread. But to answer your question, no, Strongid will not get these guys!

[ToveroMom]

Good article!
I did not read the entire thing as I have to get going but Oveywon wanted to mention there has been success in some cases with using plain old cheap generic Ivermectrin TOPICALLY on the scabby sites.
Sure would not hurt the horse and I know from the pics that the person I knew had great success with it.
Dang threadworms are a tough kill.
I wonder if suseptible horses have some type of immunity issue..just wondering out loud. It seems there should indeed be a whole LOT more cases but there are not-may be why?

[oveywon]

Originally Posted by ToveroMom

Good article!
Dang threadworms are a tough kill.
It seems there should indeed be a whole LOT more cases but there are not-may be why?

A couple of years ago, I looked very deeply into this. I read they are pretty rare now because most horses have been wormed with Ivermectin throughout their life.

Thanks for the link Tiki...I won't have time to read it until this weekend. I find it really tough to believe that the MAJORITY of horses with culicoides hypersensitivity also have neck threadworms. (I can believe that a horse that is hypersensitive to culicoides may also test to be hypersensitive to to the worm larvae but it's more difficult for me to believe they are actively infested).

If I recall what I read, the problem with eradication is the treatment kills the larvae (which are what produce the allergic response). The adults continue to live within the tissue. I've read it takes years to get all the adults.

That information was a couple of years old, so maybe they have a whole new theory now. Thanks for posting the links.

ETA -- pulled one of the old papers I read. It said "the majority of horses carry the worms, or did before Ivermectin wormer, but only the hypersensitive ones are bothered. Wormer kills the larvae but the adults are long-lived and take a long time before they are gone". It does say itching occurs all year long with the periodic release of the larvae. Itching worse after worming...

[rivervu2]

Tried the topical Ivermectin on the lesions and they're drying up! Going to buy double doses of Equimax for all of the horses and worm this week. Will let you know how they do.

[TikiGator]

Yeah the more research I do the more I wonder why the HECK no vets have told me this?!?

I know SO MANY people whose horses suffer severely from "summer itch" which is commonly assocaited with bug sensitivity. But how many of those horses are simply suffering from NTWs??

All I can think of is parasites are NOT universal. Meaning....just because they are not prevalent in one area doesn't mean they are not in another. Until this year, NONE of my horses (other than Jep) had ever had an issue with itching before. This year, 5 out of the 10 horses at my barn are itching like crazy......rubbing manes and tails, scabby necks and bellies. The only thing I can think of is the flies are carrying the NTWs and they have infected the horses. Not all horses are effected by this, but I have a feeling that is the culprit (since one of the horses itching, Louie, was allergy tested last year and tested negative to EVERYTHING and had zero reaction on the bug-sensitivy-test which was done by Cornell Univeristy.)

It's like other things....EPM for one. 90% of horses in FL are exposed, only 10% get it. So perhaps this is the same, many horses are exposed, some even get NTWs but are not bothered by them.

To compare an example....I have been a vet tech (small animal) for about 6 years. Not that it's a super long time, but I have been working around vets and in clinics since high school. NEVER have I worked at a clinic that has seen lice. This past month, we have been doing rescue work with feral cats, and for the first time we saw lice. The vet I work for learned about it in vet school, but had never seen it. A friend of mine who has been a tech for 15 years has also heard of it, but has never seen it. We have had cats come in from a particular area and ALL of them have been infected with these lice. So......just because no one's ever seen it, and no one's cat has ever been effected, doesn't mean it's not out there, and can't effect others.

I did a double dose of Equimax on my guys last week, am doing it again next week. They did start itching more after the deworming, and one of the horses has developed "marbles' under his skin (which apparently are the worms dying.... *cringe**shiver* )

I remember hearing something awhile back about using Ivermectin topically but had forgotten about it.....but I am going to try that, thanks Toveromom!

If anyone is interested, Country Supply has a sale going on, THE CHEAPEST PLACE to buy Equimax ($9 something) and Ivermectin (genetic) is only $1.99!!

[TikiGator]

Originally Posted by oveywon

If I recall what I read, the problem with eradication is the treatment kills the larvae (which are what produce the allergic response). The adults continue to live within the tissue. I've read it takes years to get all the adults.

Oveywon I *believe* this is comparable to heartworms in dogs. If a dog is heartworm positive they can be at different stages.....the first stage is where they have adults, but the adults have not yet reproduced. The next stage is where the adults have produced microfilaria (baby heartworms) and now the dog is fully infested.

Heartworm treatment with Immidicide is the only immediate treatment to completely rid the dog of the heartworms. Some dogs are not candidates for this treatment, and/or the owners cannot afford it. In those cases, and cases of the dog being heartworm positive with adults ONLY (negative on a microfilaria smear) an option can be made to put the dog on Ivermectin (injectable given orally) or Heartgard (which has Ivermectin as the main ingredient). This method will NOT cure the dog immediately and the dog may continue to suffer effects from the heartworms (heart problems, respiratory issues, etc) as it does not kill the adult heartworms............rather what it does is prevent the microfilaria (baby heartworms). So in dogs that only have adult heartworms.......it will prevent any microfilaria, (or in dogs that have microfilaria present it will kill those baby heartworms and prevent more from breeding) and eventually (I believe it is 3 years) the adults will die, and the dog will be clean.

But it's important to be sure the correct medication is used. If the dog tests positive they must be put on Ivermectin or Heartgard, NOT Revolution or Interceptor.

So I imagine this is sort of the same. Only Ivermectin (and apparently the Praziquantal) in a large dose will kill these NTW larvae, and perhaps it takes awhile for the adults to eventually die off.

[oveywon]

Thanks Tiki, that is interesting. I didn't know that about heartworms.

I read a lot of the discussion you posted and did not find a direct answer to whether or not adults were killed or how long it took. It's evidently a very long lifespan worm so if the treatment doesn't kill it, it takes a long time for them to die off. After a few pages...you start imagining you have worms so I can only read it in small doses

Did you worm your horses with the double dose of Equimax at your barn? Did you notice the reaction they said might occur (worsening of symptoms)? Any improvement? Had they been wormed with Ivermectrin throughout their life?

My Vet is coming out for Fall shots on Monday so I sent her an email to check on the latest information they have.

ETA: Disregard Tiki, I just saw your post above that you did observe the reaction. The thing that still seems odd to me about your situation is that from what I've read this is also a hypersensitivity to the microfilarie (sp?). Even if it were circulating in your area, and these horses had not been treated routinely with Ivermectrin to preclude the worms from taking hold in the first place...it still seems to be a high rate of hypersensitivity in random horses.

[TikiGator]

Originally Posted by oveywon

ETA: Disregard Tiki, I just saw your post above that you did observe the reaction. The thing that still seems odd to me about your situation is that from what I've read this is also a hypersensitivity to the microfilarie (sp?). Even if it were circulating in your area, and these horses had not been treated routinely with Ivermectrin to preclude the worms from taking hold in the first place...it still seems to be a high rate of hypersensitivity in random horses.

Oveywon....my horses have not been routinely treated with Ivermectin! Which is why I think this may be the case. All my horses, up until 2 years ago were on Strongid C daily! Until I started getting feedback from some people saying that is not a good idea (that's a whole nother thread alltogether) nonetheless I took them off of that.....but also remember, that was the same time (2 years ago) that Jep had EPM. So, being on the extensive treatment he was on, he was already on a very very high dose of a parasite dewormer--but that was only for the EPM, not for intestinal parasites or anything else. Because of that I backed off the dewormer, everyone else got Zimectrin Gold 2X a year with a rotational dewormer the other 2 rotations.....however (just to make this more complicated!) of the 4 horses I have right now that are itching....1) I just got a couple months ago, 2) one I got a year ago but I have not given him soley ivermectin, he was on rotational, 3) another I just got back in January (came from an auction, he may have NEVER been dewormed!), 4) the other I got a coulple months ago. so....really, Jep's the only one I've had for more than year......I can tell you he had not been on Ivermectin. The other ones I haven't had long enough to have them on routine ivermectin....and lord knows what they were getting prior to me getting them.

So, if that answers your question, NO they have NOT been on Ivermectin previously.......interesting isn't it?

[palomino_grl]

My horse doesn't have allergies (knock on wood), but I enjoyed reading your thread. It was very informative and I am SO glad Jeb is happier & healthier. Good for you...he looks AMAZING!!!

[oveywon]

Originally Posted by TikiGator

So, if that answers your question, NO they have NOT been on Ivermectin previously.......interesting isn't it?

Ahhh, yes, that makes a big difference. Keep us posted. I haven't definitely ruled it out for my allergic horse (the Vet did) although he doesn't have the characteristic ventral itching. He still has that funny face rash every year. The shots did seem to reduce the intensity of the face rash and some of the itchy eyes this season. Wish I could get the results you've seen with Jeb.

Please keep us posted.

[PaintsQH]

Im just glad I have no itchy allergic horses here anymore. I feel for you on yours Tiki. Its such a unbearable thing for a horse to deal with (and owner) as you know they are uncomfortable as heck.